SoCon

[whoneedsahug?]

Wow, congrats to Jacksonville on the big win over High Point.

I will stay with my original top four of (not necessarily in this order)

Richmond
High Point
Air Force
Jacksonville

Not sure that will be the order of final finish but I would say now the only team it would shock me if they win the EOY tourney is Air Force.

[10stone5]

Jack Dolan, sophomore, hung 8 points on Drexel, 7 on Towson, 5 on Penn State and now 4 & 1 in this game, including 3 goals in the 2nd half.

[tech37]

Jack Dolan, sophomore, hung 8 points on Drexel, 7 on Towson, 5 on Penn State and now 4 & 1 in this game, including 3 goals in the 2nd half.

Looking at JAX roster I'm surprised Galloway isn't getting any CNY kids (especially West Genny)...kids who want the hell out of Cuse to play in sun ...maybe in time.

[Justafan]

Anyone a little surprised just how easily Air Force took care of Jax? I am becoming more interested in the Air Force Richmond and Air Force High Point games. I really thought it was Richmond and High Point, and then Air Force and Jax very distant from them. Starting to rethink that. I still think Richmond and High Point beat Air Force, but it might be closer than I thought.

[NElaxtalent]

Anyone follow the SoCon season well enough to summarize the "most likely" scenarios & resulting tiebreakers that will decide the seeds?

My quick fake seems to be that (barring any major upsets) Richmond is locked into the 2/3 game and that tRich-HPU will decide whether they play AF or HPU in the 2/3. If so, HPU has a lot more to play for...

As a casual observer this year, seems whoever ends up #1 has a slightly easier path (no offense intended). TiA

[Hawkeye]

Assuming that Air Force>Bellarmine and Jacksonville>Mercer, which seem likely reasonable bets.

High Point>Richmond
1. High Point 6-1
2. Air Force 6-1
3. Richmond 5-2
4. Jacksonville 5-2

#4 Jacksonville @ #1 High Point
#3 Richmond vs. #2 Air Force


Richmond>High Point
1. Air Force 6-1
2. Richmond 6-1
3. Jacksonville 5-2
4. High Point 5-2

#1 Air Force @ #4 High Point
#3 Jacksonville vs. #2 Richmond

[10stone5]

High Point has come close to an undefeated season this season, or maybe more realistically, a one loss season - that being the loss to Jacksonville.

I wonder how High Point would have made out with, say, just the one loss, would that have gotten them an at large ?

Interesting that Jacksonville beat High Point, yet got taken out pretty handily by Air Force and Richmond, but still with a better than even shot at finishing 5-2 in league play.

[Hawkeye]

I wonder how High Point would have made out with, say, just the one loss, would that have gotten them an at large ?

I think they'd be right there in the picture. The St. John's loss was a killer.

A loss to Jacksonville and then maybe Air Force/Richmond in the SoCon finals would at least be a bubble team resume for an at-large.

[Justafan]

It would be very interesting if High Point does not win the So Con tournament and does not get the AQ, if they could possibly get an at large bid. Although I have stated in different forums that I think the top 2 or 3 teams in the So Con can compete with most teams, I still wouldn't put my money on them. I do feel as though High Point has the best chance out of any team in the So Con to win a tournament game. With that said, I would put my money on them losing their first round game, but think they have the team to pull off the upset, as I am sure whoever the So Con plays in the first round will be a pretty high seed. And although I think the top teams in the non traditional conferences are getting better, it might be hard to put a So Con team in the tournament as an ad large bid. Has any team from the So Con ever won a tournament game? I don't think they have.

A So Con team has to not just win a big game at the beginning of the regular season, but make at least a little noise in the tournament before they probably get the respect to have an at large bid. I for one am rooting for it, as I would like to see as many teams as possible to be good enough to one day take home the title. Makes for many more fun match ups.

Since I think High Point will win the So Con tournament, I don't think we will find out the answer though.

[Hawkeye]

With that said, I would put my money on them losing their first round game, but think they have the team to pull off the upset, as I am sure whoever the So Con plays in the first round will be a pretty high seed.

It will depend how the conference tournaments play out/etc, but it would not surprise me one bit to see High Point/Richmond, if they get to the SoCon AQ to end up @Duke or @UVA in the first round.

In the case of High Point, does lightning strike twice?

[Hawkeye]

Has any team from the So Con ever won a tournament game? I don't think they have.

Air Force won a play-in game in 2014 - before they were in the SoCon.

The team they beat? Richmond.

I don't think that I would count this as a tournament game win.

[Justafan]

I would agree.

[tb toad]

The lack of strong competition in the SoCon is holding back the in-season development of the top squads. For a couple of years now some of the top SoCon teams have had early successes winning (and/or playing close games) against teams considered to be top ten in the preseason rankings. However, once into league play the level of play falls off so dramatically in the SoCon that the top squads are essentially wasting 3-4 weeks of development playing "the rest" of the league. Meanwhile, the ACC, Big Ten etc. squads are in weekly "showdowns" within their leagues which fine tune their competitive edge come play-off time.

I have long been a proponent of Air Force (Patriot League), Richmond (ACC) and High Point (?) finding spots in more established leagues; 1) to rectify the imbalance mentioned above and 2) to enhance recruiting at each school by offering a more competitive schedule and increasing the likelihood of players and teams getting better national recognition and frequency of tournament bids.

Unless the second tier teams in the SoCon show some progress developing competitive squads, I'm not convinced that the league should even have an AQ since the winner is unlikely to have tournament success because of the in-season lack improvement. The ACC doesn't have an AQ because they don't have enough teams while the SoCon has an AQ despite having some programs that are borderline D1.

[runrussellrun]

The lack of strong competition in the SoCon is holding back the in-season development of the top squads. For a couple of years now some of the top SoCon teams have had early successes winning (and/or playing close games) against teams considered to be top ten in the preseason rankings. However, once into league play the level of play falls off so dramatically in the SoCon that the top squads are essentially wasting 3-4 weeks of development playing "the rest" of the league. Meanwhile, the ACC, Big Ten etc. squads are in weekly "showdowns" within their leagues which fine tune their competitive edge come play-off time.

I have long been a proponent of Air Force (Patriot League), Richmond (ACC) and High Point (?) finding spots in more established leagues; 1) to rectify the imbalance mentioned above and 2) to enhance recruiting at each school by offering a more competitive schedule and increasing the likelihood of players and teams getting better national recognition and frequency of tournament bids.

Unless the second tier teams in the SoCon show some progress developing competitive squads, I'm not convinced that the league should even have an AQ since the winner is unlikely to have tournament success because of the in-season lack improvement. The ACC doesn't have an AQ because they don't have enough teams while the SoCon has an AQ despite having some programs that are borderline D1.

Interesting take, especially when you consider that only one ACC team survived the first round last year. In 2017, not one ACC team made it past the 2nd round. You may have the opinion that inviting 4 CAA or Patriot teams, that these leagues wouldn't get the same results in the n$aa's ??? Oh, the 13 goal differential in the 1st round couldn't happen to a sunshine Con team?
Bellarmine was one goal away from beating HIGH point.....in short......calling SunCO teams "borderline DIV 1" is an interesting take.

UMass......only way they get into n$AA'S is with the AQ. Same with other CAA teams. You really wanna face UMass, Hofstra,Drexel, Towson or Hens right now? Loyola's really shutting down fellow Patriot teams, because the Hounds are beating all the other teams by 6 goals, just like the Big Ten teams that Loyola beat. Of course, that is early season. Boston was just a fluke loss.....or the thumping of OSU and Avian Flu Azure Jays was the fluke.....confuse.

Denver have problems getting deep into the playoffs?...........the BIG east does have those "borderline" D1 programs like Providence or St. Johns Denver must have been working on some new Defensive schemes, allowing the BIG east oh four (0-4) St. Johns to score 12 goals and the Pioneers delibaretly kept the game close b/c of this "borderline" team empathy syndrome.

Besides a handful of teams ,who would you bet against? And zero teams are borderline Div 1. (Hampton doesn't count )

[10stone5]

Has any team from the So Con ever won a tournament game? I don't think they have.

Air Force won a play-in game in 2014 - before they were in the SoCon.

The team they beat? Richmond.

I don't think that I would count this as a tournament game win.

Air Force.
Four appearances.
First was in the first NCAA tournament in 1971.

One of the first top players from our school played on those high flying early Air Force teams, Robin Major Morgan.

He later transferred and played on some of those Washington & Lee teams that regularly played in the NCAAs.

Robin Major Morgan scored two goals for W&L in the NCAA semis against Hopkins.

[Hawkeye]

Richmond (ACC)

I'm not convinced that the league should even have an AQ since the winner is unlikely to have tournament success because of the in-season lack improvement. The ACC doesn't have an AQ because they don't have enough teams while the SoCon has an AQ despite having some programs that are borderline D1.

If the ACC wasn't interested in waiving their "no associate members" rule for Hopkins, I can't see them waiving it for Richmond.

AQ status has to do with conference membership numbers and longevity/stability, not team quality.

[10stone5]

Richmond (ACC)

I'm not convinced that the league should even have an AQ since the winner is unlikely to have tournament success because of the in-season lack improvement. The ACC doesn't have an AQ because they don't have enough teams while the SoCon has an AQ despite having some programs that are borderline D1.

Three top ten wins is nothing to sneeze at.
HPU came close to being undefeated, to date.
Bellarmine had the world’s top goalie a few years back.

The B1G (relatively new) and the ACC are the only leagues that I have observed as being top heavy on the right side of the Bell Curve. The rest are pretty much a normal distribution.

[NElaxtalent]

Quint's take on HPU:

"13. High Point The Panthers squeezed past Bellarmine 16-15 and are leaking goals. Zone defense typically works better in February than April or May. High Point hosts Richmond on Saturday."

[Justafan]

I think when it comes to recruiting, Air Force is different than the rest of the teams in the So Con because what they have to offer is different. You don't have to pay for school, guaranteed job after graduation with good pay, will always look great on your resume and so forth. With that said, you still are going to need to really want to go there to do well. It is definitely a different college experience and much more rigorous than the other schools. But Air Force are getting kids that were looked at and offered scholarships at the "major lacrosse schools" because having a free education like that vs getting 50% of your school paid for out of state to a Notre Dame or Hopkins is very appealing for many kids and families where money is a relevant factor and not just picking a school because of Lacrosse. The Richmonds and High Points of the world have done a very good job at picking off the diamonds in the rough and coaching them up. I think you will see Air Force have some very good teams in the next couple of years with the kids that will be coming in next year and 2020.

[whoneedsahug?]

Six weeks ago Jacksonville beat High Point U 12-10. Two days ago HPU wins 17-3. See kids, this is why you dont bet on sports. The four teams I thought were going to make it made it, but the biggest surprise to me (after HPU's season) is Air Force and how well their season went. I thought it would take AFA longer to regroup. Today its HPU and Richmond. They had a thrilling one goal game less than two weeks ago.