THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[get it to x]

I would agree that player development is a major part of the problem. Game time when things are still in doubt is what makes a team "battle tested". I'm not saying guys like DeSimone (and he's not alone) need to lose their starting job unless something better were waiting, but a move to the seconds and perhaps putting one of the kids in might create a spark, with the added benefit of real game experience against first line players.

[MusaCyanocitta]

Really? Are you a Hopkins fan?

I would think that if HOP only won one game all season you would want to beat Maryland.

Hop grad school, so yeah. Sorry, don't care about no stinkin' Maryland and that butt-ugly trophy. I care much more about qualifying for the ncaa -- should be a birthright for Hopkins LAX -- and playing on Memorial Day. If we can only win one game a season, we should drop to d3.

My bad I guess...I assumed beating Terps was Holy Grail for HOP fans.

It's not the Grail, but it absolutely is the #1 consolation prize for a bad season. That's how you define a rivalry.

[Peter Brown]

Really? Are you a Hopkins fan?

I would think that if HOP only won one game all season you would want to beat Maryland.

Hop grad school, so yeah. Sorry, don't care about no stinkin' Maryland and that butt-ugly trophy. I care much more about qualifying for the ncaa -- should be a birthright for Hopkins LAX -- and playing on Memorial Day. If we can only win one game a season, we should drop to d3.

My bad I guess...I assumed beating Terps was Holy Grail for HOP fans.

It's not the Grail, but it absolutely is the #1 consolation prize for a bad season. That's how you define a rivalry.

For a rivalry to exist, there must be some parity.

Maryland considers Loyola more of a rival these days, Towson second. Salisbury and Stevenson might pose more of a challenge for the Terps than HOP these days.

[Peter Brown]

[HopFan16]

Really? Are you a Hopkins fan?

I would think that if HOP only won one game all season you would want to beat Maryland.

Hop grad school, so yeah. Sorry, don't care about no stinkin' Maryland and that butt-ugly trophy. I care much more about qualifying for the ncaa -- should be a birthright for Hopkins LAX -- and playing on Memorial Day. If we can only win one game a season, we should drop to d3.

My bad I guess...I assumed beating Terps was Holy Grail for HOP fans.

It's not the Grail, but it absolutely is the #1 consolation prize for a bad season. That's how you define a rivalry.

For a rivalry to exist, there must be some parity.

Maryland considers Loyola more of a rival these days, Towson second. Salisbury and Stevenson might pose more of a challenge for the Terps than HOP these days.

If Maryland is "rivals" with Loyola or Towson, how come they never schedule them?

And if by "these days" you mean this year specifically, then maybe. But it was just last year that the Jays were arguably the better team in The Rivalry A 3OT loss which either team could have won and then a pretty definitive three-goal victory in the Big Ten tournament. Obviously Maryland had their number the four previous meetings (though two of those were 1-goal margins) but Hop won the previous three before that. Maryland is 6-4 against Hopkins in their last 10 meetings. 95-88 if you tally all the goals in each games. Better, yes, not dominant. Seems pretty close to parity to me. You actually think Towson would be faring better against the Terps? I doubt that. Loyola might do just as well but either one of or both of those coaching staffs apparently have no interest in playing the other. Who is scared of whom here?

[jhu72]

So do you figure with all the munchkins with short little legs, ERs playing below expectations, should be starters sitting on the bench, and lousy coaches, the Maryland game is a bust or does the Hop have a shot?

I would not be surprised if HOP pulls an upset vs Terps

This is why is see it as coaching and Petro needs to go or make some changes. The common theme has been munchkin middies... So why not in the third vs Penn State and the game was out of hand start sprinkling in those freshman middies? What harm could it have done? Meaningful runs against a very good defense. Instead, the last 3 minutes against the twos.

How many of those players are disenchanted and are looking to transfer...

Benson calls the shots on offense, not Petro. Petro is pretty much hands off these days in that regard. Dave is a very different coach from the coach he was in the previous decade. He has been the most closely scrutinized and critiqued coach in the game - ever - with the possible exception of Starsia. You don't believe this - look at the page count on this forum compared to all others - its not purely Hopkins fans driving this. I am not going to go into the details on this forum, but anyone who has been around this game as an adult for the past 40 or 50 years and invested in Hopkins lacrosse will understand fully this statement. He has had an impossible job - far harder job than most of his lacrosse peers. That needs to change, or no matter who the coach is, he will have little success, and it will be short lived at best.

[ohmilax34]

The discussion of Petro's job, and whether he should keep it, reminds me of the same discussion about Arsene Wenger, the former Arsenal FC manager, who was there for about 20 years, which is an eternity in professional soccer.

[51percentcorn]

I don't really think Hopkins is losing recruits to OSU or PSU. Different academic stratospheres. Hop's main competition was and remains Duke, UVA, UNC, Notre Dame, and the Ivies. (Case in point: Virtually all of our "big name" recruits who have switched commitments—Shellenberger, Robertson, Westlin, etc.—end up at one of the schools I just mentioned.) Now your point about being big D1 sports schools still stands. Obviously that's something the ACC schools will always have over Hopkins. You can't get a Notre Dame football or Duke basketball experience at Hopkins. Certainly that's a plus in their favor for kids who want that.

You have a much more reasoned take on things than some other long-time Hop posters such as the ol HA80 or Doc but you're are dead dog wrong on this one IMO. Look up and down Penn State's roster - Ament/Malone - Haverford - O'Keefe Syosset - Burns and Arceri Smithtown East - Kelly (Canadian) - Black McDonogh - 2 SSDMs Townsend and McEvoy Gonzaga - Traynor Malvern - PSU had the initial line on O'Neill St. Anthony's. If you don't think Hopkins tried to recruit some or alot of these kids - I think you are likely incorrect. Now Hopkins may not be having much success at Haverford lately after Supinski and others but these kids were contacted by Hopkins.

[jhu72]

If the only thing that's going to change is the coaching staff, you may get a short lived bump in the program, but in my opinion the university needs to do some soul searching if they want to be successful long term. I don't believe they have really ever had the discussion that needs to be had (don't know this for sure - but would bet a considerable sum). I do not believe the university administration is really configured for long term success of D1 athletics.

This does not mean Hopkin's needs to go full D1. I believe you can be successful without going full D1. I can imagine staffing and a management structure which would greatly improve Hopkins' on field product, in a fashion that might even give Hopkins' an advantage that others would find problematic to emulate.

[a fan]

He has been the most closely scrutinized and critiqued coach in the game - ever - with the possible exception of Starsia. You don't believe this - look at the page count on this forum compared to all others - its not purely Hopkins fans driving this. I am not going to go into the details on this forum, but anyone who has been around this game as an adult for the past 40 or 50 years and invested in Hopkins lacrosse will understand fully this statement. He has had an impossible job - far harder job than most of his lacrosse peers. That needs to change, or no matter who the coach is, he will have little success, and it will be short lived at best.

Simple question to your point: if you were a top notch Head Coach, would you uproot your family and leave a cushy six figure job at another top University to coach at Hopkins?

For me? Not a chance. You're on an egg timer before you arrive on campus.

Tambroni, on the other hand? 9 seasons, zero NCAA playoff wins. Anyone think he's on the hot seat? Me neither. Why leave that situation to come to Hopkins where the most likely (as in, greater than 50%) result is that you won't last past your five year contract.

Food for thought. We don't just have parity for players....we have it for coaches, too.

[TheBigIguana]

Really? Are you a Hopkins fan?

I would think that if HOP only won one game all season you would want to beat Maryland.

Hop grad school, so yeah. Sorry, don't care about no stinkin' Maryland and that butt-ugly trophy. I care much more about qualifying for the ncaa -- should be a birthright for Hopkins LAX -- and playing on Memorial Day. If we can only win one game a season, we should drop to d3.

My bad I guess...I assumed beating Terps was Holy Grail for HOP fans.

It's not the Grail, but it absolutely is the #1 consolation prize for a bad season. That's how you define a rivalry.

For a rivalry to exist, there must be some parity.

Maryland considers Loyola more of a rival these days, Towson second. Salisbury and Stevenson might pose more of a challenge for the Terps than HOP these days.

If Maryland is "rivals" with Loyola or Towson, how come they never schedule them?

And if by "these days" you mean this year specifically, then maybe. But it was just last year that the Jays were arguably the better team in The Rivalry A 3OT loss which either team could have won and then a pretty definitive three-goal victory in the Big Ten tournament. Obviously Maryland had their number the four previous meetings (though two of those were 1-goal margins) but Hop won the previous three before that. Maryland is 6-4 against Hopkins in their last 10 meetings. 95-88 if you tally all the goals in each games. Better, yes, not dominant. Seems pretty close to parity to me. You actually think Towson would be faring better against the Terps? I doubt that. Loyola might do just as well but either one of or both of those coaching staffs apparently have no interest in playing the other. Who is scared of whom here?

Ease up friend he was just trolling a bit. The Jays generally are still competitive with Maryland despite the recent run of being worse than them over the season as a whole. And clearly this is still the biggest game for both teams. What is sadly true for Hopkins is that Loyola, Maryland and arguably Towson have all been more successful programs for the last 5 years.

[HopFan16]

I don't really think Hopkins is losing recruits to OSU or PSU. Different academic stratospheres. Hop's main competition was and remains Duke, UVA, UNC, Notre Dame, and the Ivies. (Case in point: Virtually all of our "big name" recruits who have switched commitments—Shellenberger, Robertson, Westlin, etc.—end up at one of the schools I just mentioned.) Now your point about being big D1 sports schools still stands. Obviously that's something the ACC schools will always have over Hopkins. You can't get a Notre Dame football or Duke basketball experience at Hopkins. Certainly that's a plus in their favor for kids who want that.

You have a much more reasoned take on things than some other long-time Hop posters such as the ol HA80 or Doc but you're are dead dog wrong on this one IMO. Look up and down Penn State's roster - Ament/Malone - Haverford - O'Keefe Syosset - Burns and Arceri Smithtown East - Kelly (Canadian) - Black McDonogh - 2 SSDMs Townsend and McEvoy Gonzaga - Traynor Malvern - PSU had the initial line on O'Neill St. Anthony's. If you don't think Hopkins tried to recruit some or alot of these kids - I think you are likely incorrect. Now Hopkins may not be having much success at Haverford lately after Supinski and others but these kids were contacted by Hopkins.

I don't think where these guys went to high school has much to do with it. There are kids at Boys Latin, Calvert Hall, Gonzaga, Landon, etc. who would not consider Hopkins (or Hopkins wouldn't consider them) because they are not looking for a top-tier academic experience. Maybe we tried to recruit some of these kids, maybe we didn't (I honestly have no idea—I assume we wanted Ament like everyone else but like you said the Haverford pipeline is dried up.) O'Neill going to Duke I believe only proves it even further—my assumption is he got his grades up and that opened up his college possibilities considerably. He chose Duke, not us. With the switches of Shellenberger, Westlin, Neumann, Robertson, Finlay (Princeton), the list goes on and on, you have demonstrable irrefutable evidence of teams stealing our guys. Are there as many cases of that happening with the Big Ten state schools? All I can think of is it happening the other way around—we nabbed Grimes from OSU. One could argue Michigan poses as much if not more of a threat on the recruiting trail as OSU and PSU, especially with Conry now in the fold. They did get Ryan Brown's 'brother. Ohio State has done a great job in-state but also in Canada (LeClaire, Reid, Inacio)—guys Petro probably never met. Malone was going D3 before he switched to PSU, was he not? Will concede Ament, Arceri, O'Keefe were most likely on Petro's radar but who knows if any were up for the academic rigors of Hopkins.

[runrussellrun]

He has been the most closely scrutinized and critiqued coach in the game - ever - with the possible exception of Starsia. You don't believe this - look at the page count on this forum compared to all others - its not purely Hopkins fans driving this. I am not going to go into the details on this forum, but anyone who has been around this game as an adult for the past 40 or 50 years and invested in Hopkins lacrosse will understand fully this statement. He has had an impossible job - far harder job than most of his lacrosse peers. That needs to change, or no matter who the coach is, he will have little success, and it will be short lived at best.

Simple question to your point: if you were a top notch Head Coach, would you uproot your family and leave a cushy six figure job at another top University to coach at Hopkins?

For me? Not a chance. You're on an egg timer before you arrive on campus.

Tambroni, on the other hand? 9 seasons, zero NCAA playoff wins. Anyone think he's on the hot seat? Me neither. Why leave that situation to come to Hopkins where the most likely (as in, greater than 50%) result is that you won't last past your five year contract.

Food for thought. We don't just have parity for players....we have it for coaches, too.

You are completely glossing over the self admitted changes that recent winning coaches have made. To their programs. To their coaching styles. Grom game to game, month to month and season to season.

Why Petro doesn't do bookends when offenses are running the criss cross applesauce thru the hole, I'll never understand.

[jhu72]

He has been the most closely scrutinized and critiqued coach in the game - ever - with the possible exception of Starsia. You don't believe this - look at the page count on this forum compared to all others - its not purely Hopkins fans driving this. I am not going to go into the details on this forum, but anyone who has been around this game as an adult for the past 40 or 50 years and invested in Hopkins lacrosse will understand fully this statement. He has had an impossible job - far harder job than most of his lacrosse peers. That needs to change, or no matter who the coach is, he will have little success, and it will be short lived at best.

Simple question to your point: if you were a top notch Head Coach, would you uproot your family and leave a cushy six figure job at another top University to coach at Hopkins?

For me? Not a chance. You're on an egg timer before you arrive on campus.

Tambroni, on the other hand? 9 seasons, zero NCAA playoff wins. Anyone think he's on the hot seat? Me neither. Why leave that situation to come to Hopkins where the most likely (as in, greater than 50%) result is that you won't last past your five year contract.

Food for thought. We don't just have parity for players....we have it for coaches, too.

I see your point and agree in the past this was true. I am not so sure this is true today - the egg timer bit. That could be part of the problem, the lack of the egg timer. Certainly in the past, Dave paid this price and then some. In my opinion Dave paid some additional price that until the past 15 years or so no or very very few lacrosse coaches had ever paid. Much of this had little to do with lacrosse. The environment in which the job is done has changed tremendously.

[a fan]

I see your point and agree in the past this was true. I am not so sure this is true today - the egg timer bit.

You think Tambroni's performance since he arrived at Penn State would be acceptable at Hopkins? 9 years, no playoff wins?

I don't. Tambroni would have made it to year five at Hopkins, and not one day more. And I believe that would still be the case if he was hired by Hopkins in 2020.

[10stone5]

I don't really think Hopkins is losing recruits to OSU or PSU. Different academic stratospheres. Hop's main competition was and remains Duke, UVA, UNC, Notre Dame, and the Ivies. (Case in point: Virtually all of our "big name" recruits who have switched commitments—Shellenberger, Robertson, Westlin, etc.—end up at one of the schools I just mentioned.) Now your point about being big D1 sports schools still stands. Obviously that's something the ACC schools will always have over Hopkins. You can't get a Notre Dame football or Duke basketball experience at Hopkins. Certainly that's a plus in their favor for kids who want that.

You have a much more reasoned take on things than some other long-time Hop posters such as the ol HA80 or Doc but you're are dead dog wrong on this one IMO. Look up and down Penn State's roster - Ament/Malone - Haverford - O'Keefe Syosset - Burns and Arceri Smithtown East - Kelly (Canadian) - Black McDonogh - 2 SSDMs Townsend and McEvoy Gonzaga - Traynor Malvern - PSU had the initial line on O'Neill St. Anthony's. If you don't think Hopkins tried to recruit some or alot of these kids - I think you are likely incorrect. Now Hopkins may not be having much success at Haverford lately after Supinski and others but these kids were contacted by Hopkins.

Maybe we tried to recruit some of these kids, maybe we didn't (I honestly have no idea—I assume we wanted Ament like everyone else but like you said the Haverford pipeline is dried up.)

The Haverford School pipeline is just fine.
It is going on decades now The Fords have been filling space on DI and other lacrosse rosters, as much as they are hated and reviled in some SE PA lacrosse circles.

[ohmilax34]

I don't really think Hopkins is losing recruits to OSU or PSU. Different academic stratospheres. Hop's main competition was and remains Duke, UVA, UNC, Notre Dame, and the Ivies. (Case in point: Virtually all of our "big name" recruits who have switched commitments—Shellenberger, Robertson, Westlin, etc.—end up at one of the schools I just mentioned.) Now your point about being big D1 sports schools still stands. Obviously that's something the ACC schools will always have over Hopkins. You can't get a Notre Dame football or Duke basketball experience at Hopkins. Certainly that's a plus in their favor for kids who want that.

You have a much more reasoned take on things than some other long-time Hop posters such as the ol HA80 or Doc but you're are dead dog wrong on this one IMO. Look up and down Penn State's roster - Ament/Malone - Haverford - O'Keefe Syosset - Burns and Arceri Smithtown East - Kelly (Canadian) - Black McDonogh - 2 SSDMs Townsend and McEvoy Gonzaga - Traynor Malvern - PSU had the initial line on O'Neill St. Anthony's. If you don't think Hopkins tried to recruit some or alot of these kids - I think you are likely incorrect. Now Hopkins may not be having much success at Haverford lately after Supinski and others but these kids were contacted by Hopkins.

Maybe we tried to recruit some of these kids, maybe we didn't (I honestly have no idea—I assume we wanted Ament like everyone else but like you said the Haverford pipeline is dried up.)

The Haverford School pipeline is just fine.
It is going on decades now The Fords have been filling space on DI and other lacrosse rosters, as much as they are hated and reviled in some SE PA lacrosse circles.

I think he means the pipeline going from Haverford to JHU.

[runrussellrun]

I see your point and agree in the past this was true. I am not so sure this is true today - the egg timer bit.

You think Tambroni's performance since he arrived at Penn State would be acceptable at Hopkins? 9 years, no playoff wins?

I don't. Tambroni would have made it to year five at Hopkins, and not one day more. And I believe that would still be the case if he was hired by Hopkins in 2020.

You make it seem like the NitMe lions got n$aa invites 9 years straight.

Both teams had an 8-6 record at the end of the "season"'s . 2017/18. Hopkins beat Pennst. in 2017. Penn st. beat Hopkins in 18. Again, both teams finished 8-6, respectively. Hopkins, tho, got a n$aa invite in 2017 (record breaking loss to Duke in first round), while Penn St. did NOT get one in 2018.

[foreverlax]

So do you figure with all the munchkins with short little legs, ERs playing below expectations, should be starters sitting on the bench, and lousy coaches, the Maryland game is a bust or does the Hop have a shot?

I would not be surprised if HOP pulls an upset vs Terps

This is why is see it as coaching and Petro needs to go or make some changes. The common theme has been munchkin middies... So why not in the third vs Penn State and the game was out of hand start sprinkling in those freshman middies? What harm could it have done? Meaningful runs against a very good defense. Instead, the last 3 minutes against the twos.

How many of those players are disenchanted and are looking to transfer...

Benson calls the shots on offense, not Petro. Petro is pretty much hands off these days in that regard. Dave is a very different coach from the coach he was in the previous decade. He has been the most closely scrutinized and critiqued coach in the game - ever - with the possible exception of Starsia. You don't believe this - look at the page count on this forum compared to all others - its not purely Hopkins fans driving this. I am not going to go into the details on this forum, but anyone who has been around this game as an adult for the past 40 or 50 years and invested in Hopkins lacrosse will understand fully this statement. He has had an impossible job - far harder job than most of his lacrosse peers. That needs to change, or no matter who the coach is, he will have little success, and it will be short lived at best.

Which is exactly why I believe that Nads won't come home...why make an already challenging job even more so, just for money.

Heard an anecdote about Petro and an incoming keeper. He told the kid (in so many words) that if they win, he is a genius and you are the best goalie in the world. If we lose, he is an idiot and you as the keeper suck. Spot on....

[Typical Lax Dad]

I don't really think Hopkins is losing recruits to OSU or PSU. Different academic stratospheres. Hop's main competition was and remains Duke, UVA, UNC, Notre Dame, and the Ivies. (Case in point: Virtually all of our "big name" recruits who have switched commitments—Shellenberger, Robertson, Westlin, etc.—end up at one of the schools I just mentioned.) Now your point about being big D1 sports schools still stands. Obviously that's something the ACC schools will always have over Hopkins. You can't get a Notre Dame football or Duke basketball experience at Hopkins. Certainly that's a plus in their favor for kids who want that.

You have a much more reasoned take on things than some other long-time Hop posters such as the ol HA80 or Doc but you're are dead dog wrong on this one IMO. Look up and down Penn State's roster - Ament/Malone - Haverford - O'Keefe Syosset - Burns and Arceri Smithtown East - Kelly (Canadian) - Black McDonogh - 2 SSDMs Townsend and McEvoy Gonzaga - Traynor Malvern - PSU had the initial line on O'Neill St. Anthony's. If you don't think Hopkins tried to recruit some or alot of these kids - I think you are likely incorrect. Now Hopkins may not be having much success at Haverford lately after Supinski and others but these kids were contacted by Hopkins.

Maybe we tried to recruit some of these kids, maybe we didn't (I honestly have no idea—I assume we wanted Ament like everyone else but like you said the Haverford pipeline is dried up.)

The Haverford School pipeline is just fine.
It is going on decades now The Fords have been filling space on DI and other lacrosse rosters, as much as they are hated and reviled in some SE PA lacrosse circles.

I think he means the pipeline going from Haverford to JHU.

Yes.... and Ament's parents are PSU grads and the Ament ship to PSU sailed about 22 years ago. Much like the Kelly's to UNC..... JHU will be fine.