Ron Desantis (The Desantis Doctrine)

[Farfromgeneva]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

Makes sense the state doesn’t have a lot of strong private higher ed compared with other states, gotta get up to Atlanta, Nashville, Raleigh-Durham/Winston Salem basically for that in the SE so you’ve got more pedestrian private colleges which costs as much as Duke/Emory/Vandy/wake (then Davidson, Centre and Furman probably next up) so the state universities have a much larger advantage in the SE and offer a nice opportunity for dirty politicians to get after it.

[Farfromgeneva]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

I like that book. Good read.

[MDlaxfan76]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

And there it is. The cause of so many problems. The north let the south keep their weapons and go home with their horses. They should have been allowed to keep all their property. States rights!!!!

When Robert E Lee tried to hand his sword to Ulysses Grant at Appomattox courthouse Grant told him you have been a gallant and noble foe.. keep your sword sir. I guess it all started with Grant? No comment about carpetbaggers and the failed effort at reconstruction??

FTR there wasn't much property left for the defeated rebels to work with. WT Sherman and his scorched earth policy made sure of that.

FTR I have to correct myself. Lee apparently never offered his sword. Gen Grant says so in his own memoirs. I find that odd being the southern gentleman Lee was that surrendering your sword was traditional for a defeated commanding officer. Grant never asked for it either.

Jim Crow, cradle. Read up.

[MDlaxfan76]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

Nope, the closer comparison would by Orban, the pretense of faux democracy covering fascism.
It takes time to get all the way to complete dictatorship.
Including the muzzling of media, the undermining of the rule of law (except as it can be used as a weapon against political enemies).
Propaganda.
And the engineering of "control" of the levers of power.
Underming of prosecutors and judicial powers.

Your comparison to Hochul trying to prevent weapons in churches, schools, government buildings, and places like Times Square is not the same as imposing orthodoxy in the school system, from primary to higher ed. Including threatening teachers with felonies if they dare teach full truth or question the orthodoxy in any way. It's not the same as punishing a corporation for its "woke" policies. It's not the same as firing elected prosecutors who disagree with your partisan aims. Or threatening to fire a prosecutor if she indicts criminals who are your fellow partisans (Georgia).

Want to challenge Hochul as over reaching? Go for it.
Right now, you can depend on a SCOTUS engineered on partisan lines.
That's right, on partisan lines.
Give DeSantis and the MAGA GOP a chance, and that engineering will be permanent.

These a-holes haven't quit...they're just getting started.

And when they tell you they are, show you who they are...believe it.
Fascist.

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

Nope, the closer comparison would by Orban, the pretense of faux democracy covering fascism.
It takes time to get all the way to complete dictatorship.
Including the muzzling of media, the undermining of the rule of law (except as it can be used as a weapon against political enemies).
Propaganda.
And the engineering of "control" of the levers of power.
Underming of prosecutors and judicial powers.

Your comparison to Hochul trying to prevent weapons in churches, schools, government buildings, and places like Times Square is not the same as imposing orthodoxy in the school system, from primary to higher ed. Including threatening teachers with felonies if they dare teach full truth or question the orthodoxy in any way. It's not the same as punishing a corporation for its "woke" policies. It's not the same as firing elected prosecutors who disagree with your partisan aims. Or threatening to fire a prosecutor if she indicts criminals who are your fellow partisans (Georgia).

Want to challenge Hochul as over reaching? Go for it.
Right now, you can depend on a SCOTUS engineered on partisan lines.
That's right, on partisan lines.
Give DeSantis and the MAGA GOP a chance, and that engineering will be permanent.

These a-holes haven't quit...they're just getting started.

And when they tell you they are, show you who they are...believe it.
Fascist.

I believe you are being melodramatic and somewhat paranoid. The solutions to tyranny in NYS and your gripe to the school policies in Florida circa RD will be litigated in court for goodness knows how long. I think Gov. Hochul took a knee jerk reaction and came up with her extensive list of " sensitive locations" for one purpose to circumvent a decision by the SCOTUS. That is her right as governor of NYS. RD took a similar tact on a different subject. As governor of the state of Florida RD made a decision you vehemently disagree with along with a lot of other folks who feel the same way. I vehemently disagree with the list of sensitive places Gov Hochul came up with. Some of them make sense and some are absolutely ridiculous and petty. Her reasoning had nothing to do with public safety. Her reasoning was to thumb her nose at a SCOTUS ruling that ticked her off. The answer to both states will be answered through appeals made via our courts. Until that time we will still have an issue that can still be debated forever on this forum.

[MDlaxfan76]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

Nope, the closer comparison would by Orban, the pretense of faux democracy covering fascism.
It takes time to get all the way to complete dictatorship.
Including the muzzling of media, the undermining of the rule of law (except as it can be used as a weapon against political enemies).
Propaganda.
And the engineering of "control" of the levers of power.
Underming of prosecutors and judicial powers.

Your comparison to Hochul trying to prevent weapons in churches, schools, government buildings, and places like Times Square is not the same as imposing orthodoxy in the school system, from primary to higher ed. Including threatening teachers with felonies if they dare teach full truth or question the orthodoxy in any way. It's not the same as punishing a corporation for its "woke" policies. It's not the same as firing elected prosecutors who disagree with your partisan aims. Or threatening to fire a prosecutor if she indicts criminals who are your fellow partisans (Georgia).

Want to challenge Hochul as over reaching? Go for it.
Right now, you can depend on a SCOTUS engineered on partisan lines.
That's right, on partisan lines.
Give DeSantis and the MAGA GOP a chance, and that engineering will be permanent.

These a-holes haven't quit...they're just getting started.

And when they tell you they are, show you who they are...believe it.
Fascist.

I believe you are being melodramatic and somewhat paranoid. The solutions to tyranny in NYS and your gripe to the school policies in Florida circa RD will be litigated in court for goodness knows how long. I think Gov. Hochul took a knee jerk reaction and came up with her extensive list of " sensitive locations" for one purpose to circumvent a decision by the SCOTUS. That is her right as governor of NYS. RD took a similar tact on a different subject. As governor of the state of Florida RD made a decision you vehemently disagree with along with a lot of other folks who feel the same way. I vehemently disagree with the list of sensitive places Gov Hochul came up with. Some of them make sense and some are absolutely ridiculous and petty. Her reasoning had nothing to do with public safety. Her reasoning was to thumb her nose at a SCOTUS ruling that ticked her off. The answer to both states will be answered through appeals made via our courts. Until that time we will still have an issue that can still be debated forever on this forum.

Again, my presumption is the opposite of yours re Hochul.
I think it was entirely about public safety.

Did she overreach, in frustration? Perhaps.
Feel free to tell us exactly which locations would suggest to you it wasn't for public safety.

But forcing propaganda, trying to control what people think, through government enforcement, threatening teachers with firing or even jail, is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Making journalists "register" to even be able to write about a government official, else face jail?

Using government powers to punish a corporation that is merely trying to keep and attract employees for daring to speak up?

Firing a prosecutor who didn't want to use their time to prosecute a draconian "law" considered arguably unconstitutional, when there are higher priorities of prosecution of violent crime, drug and human trafficking?

Threatening to fire a prosecutor (Georgia) because she may indict a powerful member of your party upon recommendation of a Grand Jury?

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

Nope, the closer comparison would by Orban, the pretense of faux democracy covering fascism.
It takes time to get all the way to complete dictatorship.
Including the muzzling of media, the undermining of the rule of law (except as it can be used as a weapon against political enemies).
Propaganda.
And the engineering of "control" of the levers of power.
Underming of prosecutors and judicial powers.

Your comparison to Hochul trying to prevent weapons in churches, schools, government buildings, and places like Times Square is not the same as imposing orthodoxy in the school system, from primary to higher ed. Including threatening teachers with felonies if they dare teach full truth or question the orthodoxy in any way. It's not the same as punishing a corporation for its "woke" policies. It's not the same as firing elected prosecutors who disagree with your partisan aims. Or threatening to fire a prosecutor if she indicts criminals who are your fellow partisans (Georgia).

Want to challenge Hochul as over reaching? Go for it.
Right now, you can depend on a SCOTUS engineered on partisan lines.
That's right, on partisan lines.
Give DeSantis and the MAGA GOP a chance, and that engineering will be permanent.

These a-holes haven't quit...they're just getting started.

And when they tell you they are, show you who they are...believe it.
Fascist.

I believe you are being melodramatic and somewhat paranoid. The solutions to tyranny in NYS and your gripe to the school policies in Florida circa RD will be litigated in court for goodness knows how long. I think Gov. Hochul took a knee jerk reaction and came up with her extensive list of " sensitive locations" for one purpose to circumvent a decision by the SCOTUS. That is her right as governor of NYS. RD took a similar tact on a different subject. As governor of the state of Florida RD made a decision you vehemently disagree with along with a lot of other folks who feel the same way. I vehemently disagree with the list of sensitive places Gov Hochul came up with. Some of them make sense and some are absolutely ridiculous and petty. Her reasoning had nothing to do with public safety. Her reasoning was to thumb her nose at a SCOTUS ruling that ticked her off. The answer to both states will be answered through appeals made via our courts. Until that time we will still have an issue that can still be debated forever on this forum.

Again, my presumption is the opposite of yours re Hochul.
I think it was entirely about public safety.

Did she overreach, in frustration? Perhaps.
Feel free to tell us exactly which locations would suggest to you it wasn't for public safety.

But forcing propaganda, trying to control what people think, through government enforcement, threatening teachers with firing or even jail, is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Making journalists "register" to even be able to write about a government official, else face jail?

Using government powers to punish a corporation that is merely trying to keep and attract employees for daring to speak up?

Firing a prosecutor who didn't want to use their time to prosecute a draconian "law" considered arguably unconstitutional, when there are higher priorities of prosecution of violent crime, drug and human trafficking?

Threatening to fire a prosecutor (Georgia) because she may indict a powerful member of your party upon recommendation of a Grand Jury?

I disagree with you 100% about Hochuls hit list. Gov Hochul and her predecessor could have enacted all of these restrictions anytime they wanted to. The irony is they only did so after the SCOTUS ruling allowing concealed carry. That little coincidence never crossed your mind? Public safety was never a legitimate consideration. If public safety concerned Gov Hochul she would not have gone all in for bail reform and allowing dangerous criminals back into our communities. You don't get to cherry pick when it comes to how you define threats to public safety. In your opinion, I guess she can. I do understand this, the bad guys with guns are always hoping that the people they prey upon are unarmed. I also understand this, the people who have passed exhaustive background checks earned the right to carry a concealed weapon. I don't think Gov Hochuls restrictions will phase them all that much. I understand their mindset... better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. When the bad guys with guns start playing by the rules then people won't feel a need to carry a concealed weapon. My son, a federal law enforcement agent always carries his weapon when he is off duty. By law he is authorized to do so. His philosophy carries over to anyone legally authorized to carry a concealed weapon. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

I understand your contempt towards RD. He is Florida's problem at this point in time. The residents of Florida reelected him by a wide margin. His proposals are controversial which is why the courts will eventually decide their legality. The same is true of Gov Hochuls new rules. That is after all how the game is played. No matter what policies a political leader is in favor of you can bet bottom dollar 40% of their constituents will be opposed to any given policy or new law.

[MDlaxfan76]

ok, so you don't have a place where its obvious that it's not about public safety. Can't come up with even one,

You just think she doesn't care.

More importantly, you don't care about fascism.

We needn't discuss it further.

[CU88]

ok, so you don't have a place where its obvious that it's not about public safety. Can't come up with even one,

You just think she doesn't care.

More importantly, you don't care about fascism.

We needn't discuss it further.

+1

[cradleandshoot]

ok, so you don't have a place where its obvious that it's not about public safety. Can't come up with even one,

You just think she doesn't care.

More importantly, you don't care about fascism.

We needn't discuss it further.

Since you requested... Public transportation. Trains, subways, buses, taxis, Uber and Lyft. Are they too sensitive??? If you ride these everyday the likelihood of a bad guy with a weapon is not an unreasonable threat. Answer me my question. What problem do you have with someone with a concealed carry permit bringing his/her weapon on the subway with them??? Yes we need to discuss it further because your dodging reality. No time for you to be a coward now...

[MDlaxfan76]

ok, so you don't have a place where its obvious that it's not about public safety. Can't come up with even one,

You just think she doesn't care.

More importantly, you don't care about fascism.

We needn't discuss it further.

Since you requested... Public transportation. Trains, subways, buses, taxis, Uber and Lyft. Are they too sensitive??? If you ride these everyday the likelihood of a bad guy with a weapon is not an unreasonable threat. Answer me my question. What problem do you have with someone with a concealed carry permit bringing his/her weapon on the subway with them??? Yes we need to discuss it further because your dodging reality. No time for you to be a coward now...

Great, now you're at least attempting to explain your logic instead of just the same repetitive screed.

As I'd said before, my assumption would be that Hochul overreached, indeed just a little googling indicates that she modified the legislation based on negative feedback. For instance, https://www.timesunion.com/state/articl ... 759938.php

But as to intent, I don't think any of these suggest a lack of concern for public safety...for instance, the presumption that a weapon on a public train is illegal allows law enforcement to be much more aggressive in ensuring that none get aboard those trains in the first place, for instance with metal detectors and law enforcement at points of entry. It enables those suspected of carrying a weapon and found to be so to be immediately detained.

Unfortunately for Hochul's view, the will and funding to to do all that really would be necessary to make these locations safer is not the reality.

The issue is fraught.

You are contending that allowing weapons to be carried concealed in these locations is just fine, in a state where concealed carry permits have been very easy to obtain and once obtained difficult to remove...she thinks not allowing them would make these areas safer...it's an argument. But not remotely the same as what DeSantis is doing with his GOP legislature and what he's saying the country as a whole should be doing if Republicans win the power.

[cradleandshoot]

ok, so you don't have a place where its obvious that it's not about public safety. Can't come up with even one,

You just think she doesn't care.

More importantly, you don't care about fascism.

We needn't discuss it further.

Since you requested... Public transportation. Trains, subways, buses, taxis, Uber and Lyft. Are they too sensitive??? If you ride these everyday the likelihood of a bad guy with a weapon is not an unreasonable threat. Answer me my question. What problem do you have with someone with a concealed carry permit bringing his/her weapon on the subway with them??? Yes we need to discuss it further because your dodging reality. No time for you to be a coward now...

Great, now you're at least attempting to explain your logic instead of just the same repetitive screed.

As I'd said before, my assumption would be that Hochul overreached, indeed just a little googling indicates that she modified the legislation based on negative feedback. For instance, https://www.timesunion.com/state/articl ... 759938.php

But as to intent, I don't think any of these suggest a lack of concern for public safety...for instance, the presumption that a weapon on a public train is illegal allows law enforcement to be much more aggressive in ensuring that none get aboard those trains in the first place, for instance with metal detectors and law enforcement at points of entry. It enables those suspected of carrying a weapon and found to be so to be immediately detained.

Unfortunately for Hochul's view, the will and funding to to do all that really would be necessary to make these locations safer is not the reality.

The issue is fraught.

You are contending that allowing weapons to be carried concealed in these locations is just fine, in a state where concealed carry permits have been very easy to obtain and once obtained difficult to remove...she thinks not allowing them would make these areas safer...it's an argument. But not remotely the same as what DeSantis is doing with his GOP legislature and what he's saying the country as a whole should be doing if Republicans win the power.

FTR, I live in NYS. I think I have a vested interest in what decisions my governor makes. I don't live in Florida. How RD runs his state is none of my business. What you think and believe about RD is your opinion. The people that live and vote in Florida disagree with you by a wide margin.

Back to the business at hand in NYS. Your kidding yourself if you believe KH has public safety as her primary concern. As I stated to you before, KH could have approved these concealed carry permit issues BEFORE the SCOTUS ruling bit her in her fanny. I hate to burst your bubble but I have ZERO problems with law abiding concealed carry permit holders having their weapons with them in many of these SENSITIVE locations. Except where specifically and clearly stated on all entrance doors. I say to you again, if you have jumped through all of the hoops and you have earned the privilege to carry a concealed firearm then that fact should be taken into consideration. Why would that person be perceived as a threat to you. The special sensitive restrictions don't apply to criminals with illegal weapons. They punish people who have proven beyond a reasonable doubt by their own state they have earned the privilege to carry a concealed weapon. When KH takes the same proactive approach to keeping dangerous criminals behind bars, especially where the right to bail is concerned, then I'll pay more attention and maybe take your point of view seriously. I don't carry and would never carry a weapon in public. If I had played by the rules, jumped through all of the hoops and was granted a concealed carry permit only to be told.. sorry Skippy, you can't carry here or there. I guess only the bad guys with guns can do that. What is the point MD of playing by the rules? I have no problem with good guys with guns. I have a huge problem with bad guys with guns.

[MDlaxfan76]

Same repeated screed.

I know your views on the matter of guns in NYS and we needn't discuss it further...you don't read the information I've linked for you about concealed carry in your state, so it's not productive discussion.

Re DeSantis, if you don't care that the hope of many in MAGA world and big money GOP world is that he'll be the GOP nominee instead of Trump, fine.

If you don't care about fascism in America being embraced by a large swath of politicians, fine.

No productive discussion to be had there either.

[cradleandshoot]

Same repeated screed.

I know your views on the matter of guns in NYS and we needn't discuss it further...you don't read the information I've linked for you about concealed carry in your state, so it's not productive discussion.

Re DeSantis, if you don't care that the hope of many in MAGA world and big money GOP world is that he'll be the GOP nominee instead of Trump, fine.

If you don't care about fascism in America being embraced by a large swath of politicians, fine.

No productive discussion to be had there either.

I am well versed with the concealed carry rules in NYS. As to your personal vendetta against RD, there is no productive discussion to be had there either. IMO the bottom line concerning RD is you understand he is a serious contender who very likely has a message that will resonate with the Republican base. I do find it ironic that you and trump have the same thing in common. You both despise RD.

I do agree on the fact there is no productive discussion to have with you at this point in time. You can grasp the concept of who a fascist is but the concept of an American citizen having a concealed carry permit and wanting and choosing to take advantage of that right and privilege sails 10 miles over your head. Too focused on chasing those white supremacists and rat bastard fascists from behind those trees.

It is really not possible to have a discussion with you concerning RD. You have already said everything about the man that there is to say. Case closed, end of story.

[MDlaxfan76]

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as "right" to a concealed carry in the Constitution.

There are rights, but that doesn't mean they can't be "regulated". Time and place and who gets and who doesn't. Not a universal "right".

As to DeSantis, worry not your little mind, others are plenty concerned about his near daily demonstrations of his fascist character.

But yeah, the MAGA sorts are hearing his "message" loud and clear. And if Trump falters, or his indicted, DeSantis will get his chance to profit from the chaos in MAGA-world that ensues.

I just hope the rest of the voters are paying close attention.

But you need not read my posts much less respond to them if it makes you feel better.

[njbill]

Gun issues in this country are going to continue to be totally screwed up until the Supreme Court overrules Heller, which hopefully will happen in my lifetime though I’m not holding my breath.

[cradleandshoot]

ok, so you don't have a place where its obvious that it's not about public safety. Can't come up with even one,

You just think she doesn't care.

More importantly, you don't care about fascism.

We needn't discuss it further.

Since you requested... Public transportation. Trains, subways, buses, taxis, Uber and Lyft. Are they too sensitive??? If you ride these everyday the likelihood of a bad guy with a weapon is not an unreasonable threat. Answer me my question. What problem do you have with someone with a concealed carry permit bringing his/her weapon on the subway with them??? Yes we need to discuss it further because your dodging reality. No time for you to be a coward now...

Great, now you're at least attempting to explain your logic instead of just the same repetitive screed.

As I'd said before, my assumption would be that Hochul overreached, indeed just a little googling indicates that she modified the legislation based on negative feedback. For instance, https://www.timesunion.com/state/articl ... 759938.php

But as to intent, I don't think any of these suggest a lack of concern for public safety...for instance, the presumption that a weapon on a public train is illegal allows law enforcement to be much more aggressive in ensuring that none get aboard those trains in the first place, for instance with metal detectors and law enforcement at points of entry. It enables those suspected of carrying a weapon and found to be so to be immediately detained.

Unfortunately for Hochul's view, the will and funding to to do all that really would be necessary to make these locations safer is not the reality.

The issue is fraught.

You are contending that allowing weapons to be carried concealed in these locations is just fine, in a state where concealed carry permits have been very easy to obtain and once obtained difficult to remove...she thinks not allowing them would make these areas safer...it's an argument. But not remotely the same as what DeSantis is doing with his GOP legislature and what he's saying the country as a whole should be doing if Republicans win the power.

You skirted around my question and never answered it. What is your problem with people who have passed an exhaustive and thorough background check? There are many obstacles to being granted a concealed carry permit in NYS. Traffic tickets can be considered by the judge making the determination on your permit. Do you seriously have an issue with someone bringing their weapon with the proper concealed carry permit to church with them on Sunday? The bad guys count on their victims being unarmed. The concealed carry restrictions you are enamored with help to guarantee that the bad guys know and understand no good person with a gun will be there to try and stop them. Your common sense approach to concealed carry permit restrictions makes you one of the best friends any bad guy could ever want. You must be so very proud?

[cradleandshoot]

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as "right" to a concealed carry in the Constitution.

There are rights, but that doesn't mean they can't be "regulated". Time and place and who gets and who doesn't. Not a universal "right".

As to DeSantis, worry not your little mind, others are plenty concerned about his near daily demonstrations of his fascist character.

But yeah, the MAGA sorts are hearing his "message" loud and clear. And if Trump falters, or his indicted, DeSantis will get his chance to profit from the chaos in MAGA-world that ensues.

I just hope the rest of the voters are paying close attention.

But you need not read my posts much less respond to them if it makes you feel better.

The only concealed weapon our founding fathers had to deal with might have been a derringer.

You are 100% right and 100% wrong all at the same time. There is a right guaranteed under the 2nd amendment about your right to carry a firearm shall not be infringed. Our founding fathers very likely had no concept that the weapons of their era would change via the technology of the industrial revolution. Why do you think the methodology used to grant someone, at least in NYS, a concealed carry permit, is complicated and very thorough

"As to DeSantis, worry not your little mind, others are plenty concerned about his near daily demonstrations of his fascist character."

Those people must include the plethora of your fellow republicans in Florida that voted for him and his fascist policies in massive numbers.

I read your posts all of the time MD. When you start to base your paranoid observations in something I call reality I will be more than happy to respond in kind.

I did notice that you dialed down your hateful rhetoric a bit. You are no longer labeling RD as a fascist. You now are referring to his fascist character. Good for you, an old dog can learn a new trick.

In the big scheme of things MD your nemesis RD will have to deal with your other nemesis trump. I don't think the trump legions will ever give up on their boy. I'm not certain, and i could very well be wrong, that RD being the young lad that he is might very well decide to let trump have his way. If RD is looking for a clear path to the republican nomination trump is a huge speed bump in the middle of the road he will have to navigate around.

[cradleandshoot]

Gun issues in this country are going to continue to be totally screwed up until the Supreme Court overrules Heller, which hopefully will happen in my lifetime though I’m not holding my breath.

A lot of people never thought R v W would ever be overturned. That concept of stare decisis is heading full steam ahead towards the scrap heap.

[MDlaxfan76]

ok, so you don't have a place where its obvious that it's not about public safety. Can't come up with even one,

You just think she doesn't care.

More importantly, you don't care about fascism.

We needn't discuss it further.

Since you requested... Public transportation. Trains, subways, buses, taxis, Uber and Lyft. Are they too sensitive??? If you ride these everyday the likelihood of a bad guy with a weapon is not an unreasonable threat. Answer me my question. What problem do you have with someone with a concealed carry permit bringing his/her weapon on the subway with them??? Yes we need to discuss it further because your dodging reality. No time for you to be a coward now...

Great, now you're at least attempting to explain your logic instead of just the same repetitive screed.

As I'd said before, my assumption would be that Hochul overreached, indeed just a little googling indicates that she modified the legislation based on negative feedback. For instance, https://www.timesunion.com/state/articl ... 759938.php

But as to intent, I don't think any of these suggest a lack of concern for public safety...for instance, the presumption that a weapon on a public train is illegal allows law enforcement to be much more aggressive in ensuring that none get aboard those trains in the first place, for instance with metal detectors and law enforcement at points of entry. It enables those suspected of carrying a weapon and found to be so to be immediately detained.

Unfortunately for Hochul's view, the will and funding to to do all that really would be necessary to make these locations safer is not the reality.

The issue is fraught.

You are contending that allowing weapons to be carried concealed in these locations is just fine, in a state where concealed carry permits have been very easy to obtain and once obtained difficult to remove...she thinks not allowing them would make these areas safer...it's an argument. But not remotely the same as what DeSantis is doing with his GOP legislature and what he's saying the country as a whole should be doing if Republicans win the power.

You skirted around my question and never answered it. What is your problem with people who have passed an exhaustive and thorough background check? There are many obstacles to being granted a concealed carry permit in NYS. Traffic tickets can be considered by the judge making the determination on your permit. Do you seriously have an issue with someone bringing their weapon with the proper concealed carry permit to church with them on Sunday? The bad guys count on their victims being unarmed. The concealed carry restrictions you are enamored with help to guarantee that the bad guys know and understand no good person with a gun will be there to try and stop them. Your common sense approach to concealed carry permit restrictions makes you one of the best friends any bad guy could ever want. You must be so very proud?

I earlier linked an article that directly addressed your contention above.

Pre 2022, it has been exceedingly easy to obtain a concealed carry and once obtained you kept it. Huge number given out in NYS.
Exact opposite of your contention.

You obviously didn't read it or ignored it.