THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[molo]

I know that Hopkins is looking at what may prove to be its worst season since I graduated from college, but it may be wise to climb back from the edge. In the last few days I have read posts comparing favorably the work of the non-Hopkins coach whose work those who I know who played for or were close to the Hopkins program recall less than favorably with the work of the game's best defenseman who has won two NCs and more recently a call to insert for a year as the Hopkins coach the former coach of another program that I follow who presided over a scandal off the field and a decline on the field from which the team is finally starting to recover.

[MrLax2U]

Greetings Molo,
You write like William Faulkner.

[molo]

Thanks for the compliment. My English professors at UVA would disagree.

[HopFan16]

The Starsia suggestion was in fact ridiculous. I doubt either party is interested in that.

LS Defensive mid-field - 41 ground balls and 16 CTOs - given they are on the wings the ground ball totals are pathetic - 3 ground balls and barely 1 CTO per game - and I have seen Reinson make some horrible mistakes in defense

SS Defensive Mid-field - 33 ground balls 12 CTOs - 12 penalties for 10 minutes in penalty time - they have been oft discussed and simply comprise one of the weakest SSDM tandems around. Virtually all the ground balls are Hubler's, virtually all the CTOs are Jones'

1st Offensive mid-field - the entire year - 28 goals - 17 assists- 26% shot % a mind boggling 20 ground balls - the only thing you can positively say is 16 turnovers is not horrible - there are likely many DI mid-fielders that can exceed those stats all by themselves. Concannon' s 14 and 6 would be pretty good for a second line middie

2nd offensive mid-field - current edition - 18 goals 7 assists - 26% shot % - another mind boggling ground ball total of 7 and 13 turnovers - Cattoni and Mabbett add 4 goals and 1 assist and 3 ground balls and 4 turnovers - given that Cattoni played in two routs and Mabbett scored his in complete garbage time - virtually all of those goals are meaningless

Attack - When your star attackman is a freshman and he leads the team in goals with only 31 - that's a problem - your senior captain lethal shooter has regressed 28% shot percentage 19 ground balls and 16 turnovers is worse than last year I believe. Epstein is the only attackman with a shot % that has a 3 handle - Williams is down to 23% As a unit they have 49 ground balls and 62 turnovers. If you didn't know anything about anything and just saw the Hopkins statistics sheet - you would come to one conclusion - as the ol ball coach for the Redskins used to say "Not very good"

What is more likely—that the coaches just completely whiffed during recruiting on every single player and position except for Epstein, or that the schemes and/or culture that these players are being put in is the issue? I think some recruits were clear swings and misses, but others were and remain good players who are not being put in a position to succeed. We need to remember that if Marr, Williams, Rapine, Zinn, DeSimone, etc. etc. were not playing at Hopkins, they would be playing at UVA or Duke or Maryland or Cornell or wherever. Take Zinn, for example, because I know how we all love to talk about him. I know for a fact that pretty much every ACC and Ivy League school recruited him. So if he didn't pick Hopkins he'd be at one of those programs. Maybe he'd be in the freshman of the year discussion. Who knows. He sure isn't being used correctly at Homewood.

Again, when there are systemic, team-wide GB and CT deficiencies, what's more likely—that none of the players they recruited can do those things, or that they are not being taught correctly/the schemes and strategies are not conducive to them? I don't know if wings are Petro's or Dwan's domain but they've been a problem for years no matter the personnel. Knowing that there is a serious problem at SSDM that puts a strain on the entire defense, how do you not let them be more aggressive and take more chances? Otherwise you're making them just sit on their heels and wait for a breakdown. If the middies can't cover anyone then why have we NEVER seen the D play a zone? Knowing that the midfield is slow and small, how is it that the primary offensive strategy still seems to be isolate a slow and small middie against a shortie? That works...what...maybe once a game? Twice? Three times if we're playing Princeton and Baskin happens to have a good shooting day. How is it that you let a player who now has 2 career goals (and twice as many turnovers) in 3 seasons play over a kid who runs like Usain Bolt and can actually—demonstrably—shoot the ball from outside? How does a player who exploded for 35 goals last year and at certain points looked unstoppable regress to half that many a season later? Did he suddenly lose all his ability?

One thing I will concede, and this was glaring in the Penn State game, is that the shooting was truly woeful. I can't count the number of shots that didn't even come anywhere close to hitting the cage. What's that all about? Pressing? Nerves? Not shooting enough after practice? Spending so much time on the X's and O's and perfecting the two-man game that they forgot how to shoot?

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

https://imgur.com/a/vyzkUqz
^ That is for the 2010s, so the last nine seasons. Judge for yourself.

I like this chart.

It tells me that both Corrigan AND Desko should be fired.

[primitiveskills]

Go back and watch Coulter when he finally gets some run at SSDM. It is the most fundamentally sound defensive play that I've seen from a Hopkins SSDM in a very long time. Good footwork, correct positioning, understands how to defend a two-man game, solid and not tentative on the clear. Is there a particular reason he rode the bench for 4 years?

[DocBarrister]

It is not working on any level. It will be interesting to see if anything happens - one might argue that if Daniels and Shanahan don't really care about Hopkins men's lacrosse - then they will let him at least finish his contract.

That would be Admin malpractice. If Petro is just on a one-year remaining contract, other coaches/recruiters will have a field day with that fact: come here and I'll be with you for four years; go to Bawlamer and you won't even know will be coaching there by the time you arrive.

Really only three choices: 1) Petro steps down/forced out/retires now; 2) Petro announces his retirement at the end of 2020 AND the school announces his replacement at the same time; 3) Petro is given an 'extension' with a simple buyout clause after next year. (The latter would be ridiculous, however, as no one would buy it.)

(IMO, an interim coach as noted above will put recruiting back a year.)

Petro is only 52, I think. He is nowhere near retirement. Sometimes a fresh start is good for everyone, but I doubt that is what he wants, especially with two sons at Boys Latin.

If Pietramala wants to continue at Hopkins, he will need to change. His role model for that should be Coach Brian Kelly at Notre Dame, not Coach Belichick.

DocBarrister

Dave needs to change alright, using himself in 2000-2008 as the role model. He needs to tell anyone who does not like it to KIss His Ass as he leaves to go somewhere he is appreciated!

I appreciate Petro, apparently far more than most around here. I would be extremely upset if he were not allowed to finish out his current contract if things don’t end well this season. We (the entirety of Johns Hopkins lacrosse ... players, former players, alumni, fans) owe Coach Pietramala at least that much.

Let’s all step back and acknowledge whom we are discussing here ... one of the greatest lacrosse players of all time and one of the greatest lacrosse coaches of all time. A century from now, if college lacrosse is still being played anywhere, true fans of the game will be discussing Petro and his legacy.

THAT is the coach whom we are discussing here. He’s not just special ... his place in the history of college lacrosse is UNIQUE.

Whatever happens this season (and I am still hopeful and rooting for the team), Dave Pietramala deserves to at least finish his current contract. And who knows ... I think the Blue Jays are loaded with young talent ... next year could be something really special.

DocBarrister (but this season ain’t over yet)

[HopFan16]

Go back and watch Coulter when he finally gets some run at SSDM. It is the most fundamentally sound defensive play that I've seen from a Hopkins SSDM in a very long time. Good footwork, correct positioning, understands how to defend a two-man game, solid and not tentative on the clear. Is there a particular reason he rode the bench for 4 years?

I distinctly remember Ty Xanders calling him the best high school defensive middie he'd ever seen. As far as the game goes, I didn't really notice him one way or the other, but for an SSDM I guess that's a good thing. He did not play his freshman year in 2016—I wonder if he will return next year with a final year of eligibility. With Jones graduating perhaps he'd suddenly find himself with more playing time.

[DocBarrister]

But this guy does attract enough high end talent to be much better record wise than he is. I do not think it's a simple question of the talent is not there. I'd argue over many beers that it's more a matter of him being too set in his decisions too early, and not calibrating the talent he does have to maximize wins.

Again, I disagree. You're talking about replacing a middling midfielder with another slightly better midifielder.

That's not the problem, imho. The problem is, for example, you don't have a top 10 goalie anywhere on your roster.

And a far better example is Epstein. He's their best player, yes? Are you suggesting that they have offensive players of that caliber on the the bench? Not "potentially"----but are actually that caliber right now? No, right?

Well, multiple teams have players that are better than Epstein on offense. Top ten teams have two kids that are better. Witness yesterdays O'Keefe and Ament. Maryland's Bernhardt and Wisnauskas. Penn's Goldner and Handley. Loyola's Spencer and Lindley.

THAT is the problem.

You and others are suggesting that with a new coach and the same roster, boom, you have a Final Four caliber team.

We're in the world of opinion here, and boy, I just disagree with that. But I like your suggestion of discussing this over beers!


This will all get sorted out for Hopkins fans soon enough.

Not quite fair to compare Epstein to seniors like Spencer or red-shirt juniors like Grant Ament.

Epstein is the real deal ... arguably the best freshman in the nation. If Hopkins had better finishers, Epstein would have twice as many assists. He’s just a freshman, and opposing coaches are already putting their best defenseman on him.

And he was recruited by Coach Petro (early, I might add).

Petro is no longer the new shiny thing among coaches, and he probably will never recruit another class like the NOW LEGENDARY Class of 2005. But he still gets more than his fair share of talent.

DocBarrister

[molo]

The Doc is right in both posts.

[CU77]

As a longtime observer of university administrations, and with some inside info about how they think, I confidently predict that Petro will not be gone before his contract is up.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

As a longtime observer of university administrations, and with some inside info about how they think, I confidently predict that Petro will not be gone before his contract is up.

Unless by his own volition.

Not good being a lame duck.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

The ex-Doc is right in both posts.

But he needs to get off his knees and wipe his mouth off.

Acting like he’s one of the few who appreciate what Coach has done over his career is pure BS and the usual grandstanding to slap himself on the back.

[DMac]

So do you figure with all the munchkins with short little legs, ERs playing below expectations, should be starters sitting on the bench, and lousy coaches, the Maryland game is a bust or does the Hop have a shot?

[steel_hop]

It is not working on any level. It will be interesting to see if anything happens - one might argue that if Daniels and Shanahan don't really care about Hopkins men's lacrosse - then they will let him at least finish his contract.

That would be Admin malpractice. If Petro is just on a one-year remaining contract, other coaches/recruiters will have a field day with that fact: come here and I'll be with you for four years; go to Bawlamer and you won't even know will be coaching there by the time you arrive.

Really only three choices: 1) Petro steps down/forced out/retires now; 2) Petro announces his retirement at the end of 2020 AND the school announces his replacement at the same time; 3) Petro is given an 'extension' with a simple buyout clause after next year. (The latter would be ridiculous, however, as no one would buy it.)

(IMO, an interim coach as noted above will put recruiting back a year.)

Petro is only 52, I think. He is nowhere near retirement. Sometimes a fresh start is good for everyone, but I doubt that is what he wants, especially with two sons at Boys Latin.

If Pietramala wants to continue at Hopkins, he will need to change. His role model for that should be Coach Brian Kelly at Notre Dame, not Coach Belichick.

DocBarrister

Dave needs to change alright, using himself in 2000-2008 as the role model. He needs to tell anyone who does not like it to KIss His Ass as he leaves to go somewhere he is appreciated!

I appreciate Petro, apparently far more than most around here. I would be extremely upset if he were not allowed to finish out his current contract if things don’t end well this season. We (the entirety of Johns Hopkins lacrosse ... players, former players, alumni, fans) owe Coach Pietramala at least that much.

Let’s all step back and acknowledge whom we are discussing here ... one of the greatest lacrosse players of all time and one of the greatest lacrosse coaches of all time. A century from now, if college lacrosse is still being played anywhere, true fans of the game will be discussing Petro and his legacy.

THAT is the coach whom we are discussing here. He’s not just special ... his place in the history of college lacrosse is UNIQUE.

Whatever happens this season (and I am still hopeful and rooting for the team), Dave Pietramala deserves to at least finish his current contract. And who knows ... I think the Blue Jays are loaded with young talent ... next year could be something really special.

DocBarrister (but this season ain’t over yet)

Give me a break. He's owed what is in his contract. No one is arguing that. But, nothing in his contract says he has to be coaching on the sudelines.

Moreover, a lame duck coach with only 1 year is dead man in recruiting. You want to keep the class if 2020 in tact, you have a coach with a contract in place for 2021 and beyond. If Hopkins doesn't have a coach with a contract that will have him greeting the new freshmen players in the fall of 2020, then Hopkins recruits are ripe for poaching. The recruiting pitch writes itself.

Whether the Hopkins AD and admin realize that is a completely other story. If you have every been involved in hiring you know the adage of you hire slowly and fire quickly.

[a fan]

Not quite fair to compare Epstein to seniors like Spencer or red-shirt juniors like Grant Ament.

I wasn't doing that. I was comparing the quality of players at Hopkins vs. other top programs.

Epstein is the real deal ... arguably the best freshman in the nation. If Hopkins had better finishers, Epstein would have twice as many assists.

Welcome to the center of the shrubbery maze. This. Precisely this.

And this isn't Petro's fault. This lies square at the player's feet, and has nothing to do with talent. Put in the work. Hit the target you are aiming for, and work on your release.

Marr is at 28%
Williams is at 23%


The top 50 shooters in Division I are all----100% of them----above 40%.

And most top teams have more than one player on that list. Penn St. has three. So does Maryland. So does Cornell. Imagine that?

[51percentcorn]

Give me a break. He's owed what is in his contract. No one is arguing that. But, nothing in his contract says he has to be coaching on the sudelines.

Moreover, a lame duck coach with only 1 year is dead man in recruiting. You want to keep the class if 2020 in tact, you have a coach with a contract in place for 2021 and beyond. If Hopkins doesn't have a coach with a contract that will have him greeting the new freshmen players in the fall of 2020, then Hopkins recruits are ripe for poaching. The recruiting pitch writes itself.

Whether the Hopkins AD and admin realize that is a completely other story. If you have every been involved in hiring you know the adage of you hire slowly and fire quickly.

+1 - Doc is delusional as usual. As far as the Maryland game - I would play the freshmen more - start Zinn - Hopkins is going to be executed to death regardless. It might not be 10-1 at half or whatever it was 2 years ago but it might be as well.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

B1G playoff update: only way Hopkins isn’t in is if RU beats PSU.

8 ways the three games could come out this weekend. 2*2*2

7 out of 8 ways, Hopkins is in. Only way Hopkins is out if RU over PSU.

Matchup looks to be against MD in the B1G tourney for those seven scenarios, with the only difference being who wears the white jerseys in god forsaken Piscataway.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

So do you figure with all the munchkins with short little legs, ERs playing below expectations, should be starters sitting on the bench, and lousy coaches, the Maryland game is a bust or does the Hop have a shot?

See my post above.

Hopkins is in the B1G tourney against MD, unless RU upsets PSU.

[steel_hop]

https://imgur.com/a/vyzkUqz
^ That is for the 2010s, so the last nine seasons. Judge for yourself.

Thanks. That puts into pictures what I've been saying for a long time. The program has been trending poorly for a decade.

Further, this demonstrates something else I've stated. Petro is an awful tournament coach. Hes won one quarterfinal game when Harrison or Rabil aren't on the team.

Hell, I beat you can get a bunch of UVA people to question the 2005 win and blame the lightening on stemming the UVA steam or luck boxing thier way into playing Delaware in the semis in 2007 (which also had a delayed game in the 1st round that allowed Hopkins to rally over ND) that saved them in the finals against Duke.