Ron Desantis (The Desantis Doctrine)

[Seacoaster(1)]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

FTR counselor, I read it. I even had to go to my laptop so I could finally read the documents. On my smart phone the print was unreadable without a magnifying glass. Maybe you could do me a solid and interpret the mumbo jumbo into something that makes sense. Is your major gripe all of the lines that are semi blacked out? I just want to know what I am missing here. I read it but still don't have a clue what any of it means.

MDLaxfan's response after reading it is pretty much on the money. Some parts of the proposed law would provide this:

The bill would ban diversity statements, make tenure and faculty hiring committees meaningless, and centralize control of core curricula and mission statements in the hands of political appointees. Unexpectedly, it would also ban gender studies majors.

All state colleges and universities must remove Women’s and Gender Studies from the list of available majors and minors. No major or minor can exist if it is deemed to be “derivative” from the “belief system” of “Critical Race Theory.” Huh, who makes that call?

All general education (core) courses must promote "the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic" through traditional, historically accurate" coursework. "Courses based on unproven, theoretical, or exploratory content" are banned from gen ed. Because we wouldn't want any "theoretical" stuff in college classrooms, right? We're just here to memorize stuff.

No core class can present American history contrary to a founding narrative “based on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.” You know, the single, unitary founding narrative with which we all -- every one of us -- agree, right?

All faculty hiring will be done by the university board or president—who *may not delegate* any aspect of any hiring decision or any hiring authority to any group of faculty however constituted. They are “not required to consider recommendations or opinions of faculty.” No need to consults peers and co-workers, just the Governor's appointees, OK?

This is just about the most f*cked up proposed law I think I have ever seen. Desantis is vying to be America's Victor Orban.

[a fan]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

FTR counselor, I read it. I even had to go to my laptop so I could finally read the documents. On my smart phone the print was unreadable without a magnifying glass. Maybe you could do me a solid and interpret the mumbo jumbo into something that makes sense. Is your major gripe all of the lines that are semi blacked out? I just want to know what I am missing here. I read it but still don't have a clue what any of it means.

MDLaxfan's response after reading it is pretty much on the money. Some parts of the proposed law would provide this:

The bill would ban diversity statements, make tenure and faculty hiring committees meaningless, and centralize control of core curricula and mission statements in the hands of political appointees. Unexpectedly, it would also ban gender studies majors.

All state colleges and universities must remove Women’s and Gender Studies from the list of available majors and minors. No major or minor can exist if it is deemed to be “derivative” from the “belief system” of “Critical Race Theory.” Huh, who makes that call?

All general education (core) courses must promote "the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic" through traditional, historically accurate" coursework. "Courses based on unproven, theoretical, or exploratory content" are banned from gen ed. Because we wouldn't want any "theoretical" stuff in college classrooms, right? We're just here to memorize stuff.

No core class can present American history contrary to a founding narrative “based on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.” You know, the single, unitary founding narrative with which we all -- every one of us -- agree, right?

All faculty hiring will be done by the university board or president—who *may not delegate* any aspect of any hiring decision or any hiring authority to any group of faculty however constituted. They are “not required to consider recommendations or opinions of faculty.” No need to consults peers and co-workers, just the Governor's appointees, OK?

This is just about the most f*cked up proposed law I think I have ever seen. Desantis is vying to be America's Victor Orban.

Injecting as much politics into Education as they possibly can?

This is the new Republican "solution" to our problems in education?

Good luck with that.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

FTR counselor, I read it. I even had to go to my laptop so I could finally read the documents. On my smart phone the print was unreadable without a magnifying glass. Maybe you could do me a solid and interpret the mumbo jumbo into something that makes sense. Is your major gripe all of the lines that are semi blacked out? I just want to know what I am missing here. I read it but still don't have a clue what any of it means.

MDLaxfan's response after reading it is pretty much on the money. Some parts of the proposed law would provide this:

The bill would ban diversity statements, make tenure and faculty hiring committees meaningless, and centralize control of core curricula and mission statements in the hands of political appointees. Unexpectedly, it would also ban gender studies majors.

All state colleges and universities must remove Women’s and Gender Studies from the list of available majors and minors. No major or minor can exist if it is deemed to be “derivative” from the “belief system” of “Critical Race Theory.” Huh, who makes that call?

All general education (core) courses must promote "the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic" through traditional, historically accurate" coursework. "Courses based on unproven, theoretical, or exploratory content" are banned from gen ed. Because we wouldn't want any "theoretical" stuff in college classrooms, right? We're just here to memorize stuff.

No core class can present American history contrary to a founding narrative “based on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.” You know, the single, unitary founding narrative with which we all -- every one of us -- agree, right?

All faculty hiring will be done by the university board or president—who *may not delegate* any aspect of any hiring decision or any hiring authority to any group of faculty however constituted. They are “not required to consider recommendations or opinions of faculty.” No need to consults peers and co-workers, just the Governor's appointees, OK?

This is just about the most f*cked up proposed law I think I have ever seen. Desantis is vying to be America's Victor Orban.

Injecting as much politics into Education as they possibly can?

This is the new Republican "solution" to our problems in education?

Good luck with that.

It's not really politics; it is orthodoxy. Toe. The. Line.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

FTR counselor, I read it. I even had to go to my laptop so I could finally read the documents. On my smart phone the print was unreadable without a magnifying glass. Maybe you could do me a solid and interpret the mumbo jumbo into something that makes sense. Is your major gripe all of the lines that are semi blacked out? I just want to know what I am missing here. I read it but still don't have a clue what any of it means.

MDLaxfan's response after reading it is pretty much on the money. Some parts of the proposed law would provide this:

The bill would ban diversity statements, make tenure and faculty hiring committees meaningless, and centralize control of core curricula and mission statements in the hands of political appointees. Unexpectedly, it would also ban gender studies majors.

All state colleges and universities must remove Women’s and Gender Studies from the list of available majors and minors. No major or minor can exist if it is deemed to be “derivative” from the “belief system” of “Critical Race Theory.” Huh, who makes that call?

All general education (core) courses must promote "the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic" through traditional, historically accurate" coursework. "Courses based on unproven, theoretical, or exploratory content" are banned from gen ed. Because we wouldn't want any "theoretical" stuff in college classrooms, right? We're just here to memorize stuff.

No core class can present American history contrary to a founding narrative “based on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.” You know, the single, unitary founding narrative with which we all -- every one of us -- agree, right?

All faculty hiring will be done by the university board or president—who *may not delegate* any aspect of any hiring decision or any hiring authority to any group of faculty however constituted. They are “not required to consider recommendations or opinions of faculty.” No need to consults peers and co-workers, just the Governor's appointees, OK?

This is just about the most f*cked up proposed law I think I have ever seen. Desantis is vying to be America's Victor Orban.

The potential head of government is banking on more people thinking like Cradle.

[Kismet]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

FTR counselor, I read it. I even had to go to my laptop so I could finally read the documents. On my smart phone the print was unreadable without a magnifying glass. Maybe you could do me a solid and interpret the mumbo jumbo into something that makes sense. Is your major gripe all of the lines that are semi blacked out? I just want to know what I am missing here. I read it but still don't have a clue what any of it means.

MDLaxfan's response after reading it is pretty much on the money. Some parts of the proposed law would provide this:

The bill would ban diversity statements, make tenure and faculty hiring committees meaningless, and centralize control of core curricula and mission statements in the hands of political appointees. Unexpectedly, it would also ban gender studies majors.

All state colleges and universities must remove Women’s and Gender Studies from the list of available majors and minors. No major or minor can exist if it is deemed to be “derivative” from the “belief system” of “Critical Race Theory.” Huh, who makes that call?

All general education (core) courses must promote "the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic" through traditional, historically accurate" coursework. "Courses based on unproven, theoretical, or exploratory content" are banned from gen ed. Because we wouldn't want any "theoretical" stuff in college classrooms, right? We're just here to memorize stuff.

No core class can present American history contrary to a founding narrative “based on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.” You know, the single, unitary founding narrative with which we all -- every one of us -- agree, right?

All faculty hiring will be done by the university board or president—who *may not delegate* any aspect of any hiring decision or any hiring authority to any group of faculty however constituted. They are “not required to consider recommendations or opinions of faculty.” No need to consults peers and co-workers, just the Governor's appointees, OK?

This is just about the most f*cked up proposed law I think I have ever seen. Desantis is vying to be America's Victor Orban.

Injecting as much politics into Education as they possibly can?

This is the new Republican "solution" to our problems in education?

Good luck with that.

For those who complain about teachers having tenure. Sh*t like this is the reason.
Why would any decent educator want to work in Florida?
Politicians won't care because kids don't vote.

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

FTR counselor, I read it. I even had to go to my laptop so I could finally read the documents. On my smart phone the print was unreadable without a magnifying glass. Maybe you could do me a solid and interpret the mumbo jumbo into something that makes sense. Is your major gripe all of the lines that are semi blacked out? I just want to know what I am missing here. I read it but still don't have a clue what any of it means.

MDLaxfan's response after reading it is pretty much on the money. Some parts of the proposed law would provide this:

The bill would ban diversity statements, make tenure and faculty hiring committees meaningless, and centralize control of core curricula and mission statements in the hands of political appointees. Unexpectedly, it would also ban gender studies majors.

All state colleges and universities must remove Women’s and Gender Studies from the list of available majors and minors. No major or minor can exist if it is deemed to be “derivative” from the “belief system” of “Critical Race Theory.” Huh, who makes that call?

All general education (core) courses must promote "the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic" through traditional, historically accurate" coursework. "Courses based on unproven, theoretical, or exploratory content" are banned from gen ed. Because we wouldn't want any "theoretical" stuff in college classrooms, right? We're just here to memorize stuff.

No core class can present American history contrary to a founding narrative “based on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.” You know, the single, unitary founding narrative with which we all -- every one of us -- agree, right?

All faculty hiring will be done by the university board or president—who *may not delegate* any aspect of any hiring decision or any hiring authority to any group of faculty however constituted. They are “not required to consider recommendations or opinions of faculty.” No need to consults peers and co-workers, just the Governor's appointees, OK?

This is just about the most f*cked up proposed law I think I have ever seen. Desantis is vying to be America's Victor Orban.

Injecting as much politics into Education as they possibly can?

This is the new Republican "solution" to our problems in education?

Good luck with that.

Not for nothing but the vast majority of Democrat solutions to education are not exactly setting the world of knowledge on fire. You wanna make a comparison to the Democrat vision of " out based education" that concept fell flat on its face when applied in public schools. Little Jimmy adds up 2 + 2 and winds up with 6. Little Mary spells dog... C.A.T. The solution is for the teacher to educate his/her students to the lowest common denominator. If you still can't add or spell at the end of the school year.... no problem... Jimmy and Mary's teachers will address those deficiencies in the curriculum some where down the line. I had a friendly debate about this at a party with a RCSD 2nd grade teacher about 25 years ago. I went to school in the mid 60s in an era where if you could not add, spell, read or write basic English and math you would repeat the grade. The new rule is bump the child up to the next grade level, cross your fingers and hope for the best. How is that philosophy of education working out for todays public school students?
There was a big kerfuffle in the RCSD a few years back excoriating teachers for using red pens to correct test papers. The use of softer non judgemental pastel colored pens were recommended. They were afraid of stigmatizing some students with that harsh red ink.

If it has reached a point in our education system where students are traumatized by red ink on their test papers then our public education system is in even deeper chit than I ever imagined possible.

[MDlaxfan76]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

[Kismet]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Suggest you read up on how Fascists of the past operated in Germany and Italy in the 1930s and how Viktor Orban is currently doing it in Hungary.

You will find many of the methods are similar to what some are proposing now.

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Suggest you read up on how Fascists of the past operated in Germany and Italy in the 1930s and how Viktor Orban is currently doing it in Hungary.

You will find many of the methods are similar to what some are proposing now.

The last time I checked the USA is still a representative republic. The safeguards built in should protect our country if our leaders are doing their job. I will give you this, when RDs Brown shirts start dragging his opponents out into the street and shooting them in the head then he will have graduated to the level of a bona fide hardcore fascist leader.

[MDlaxfan76]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Suggest you read up on how Fascists of the past operated in Germany and Italy in the 1930s and how Viktor Orban is currently doing it in Hungary.

You will find many of the methods are similar to what some are proposing now.

The last time I checked the USA is still a representative republic. The safeguards built in should protect our country if our leaders are doing their job. I will give you this, when RDs Brown shirts start dragging his opponents out into the street and shooting them in the head then he will have graduated to the level of a bona fide hardcore fascist leader.

Yes, and that would be too late to stop them.

Whether we call it fascism of authoritarianism, or some other word, the objective is to break independent media, eliminate it, and to indeed control all means of "learning", including "history". Book banning/burning, incarceration of "enemies of the state", and later "disappearances" and "fell out the window". Where real truth is irrelevant and only what the State/the Leader says matters. The demonization of "Others" who in some way can be blamed for the ills of society. Where violence is "justified" to protect the State, as the extremes wish it to be.

I think the current danger in America is not from the extreme left, but rather from the extreme right, and particularly as imbued with this "White Christian Nationalism" strain of self-justification.

It needs to be stopped in its tracks before a minority in our country achieve full control and are unwilling to bow to the will of the majority through democratic, small d, processes.

We see the beginnings of these steps in Florida under DeSantis. Journalists must "register" to even write about him, books are banned from public libraries, curriculum control, teachers being told they will be fired or even that they can go to jail if they provide any education outside of the approved "narrative" that supports the "State" without critique, bullying/punishing of individuals and corporations who dare to disagree publicly.

That's all happened in the past two years. And is accelerating.

[Kismet]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

[jhu72]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

,,, he won't understand Lewis -- he was a liberal.

[jhu72]

Baseball can no longer ignore Ron DeSantimonious.

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

,,, he won't understand Lewis -- he was a liberal.

Since liberalism is a proven mental disorder why would I want to understand it beyond knowing you people seriously need some help.

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

[SCLaxAttack]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

And there it is. The cause of so many problems. The north let the south keep their weapons and go home with their horses. They should have been allowed to keep all their property. States rights!!!!

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

And there it is. The cause of so many problems. The north let the south keep their weapons and go home with their horses. They should have been allowed to keep all their property. States rights!!!!

When Robert E Lee tried to hand his sword to Ulysses Grant at Appomattox courthouse Grant told him you have been a gallant and noble foe.. keep your sword sir. I guess it all started with Grant? No comment about carpetbaggers and the failed effort at reconstruction??

FTR there wasn't much property left for the defeated rebels to work with. WT Sherman and his scorched earth policy made sure of that.

FTR I have to correct myself. Lee apparently never offered his sword. Gen Grant says so in his own memoirs. I find that odd being the southern gentleman Lee was that surrendering your sword was traditional for a defeated commanding officer. Grant never asked for it either.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

And there it is. The cause of so many problems. The north let the south keep their weapons and go home with their horses. They should have been allowed to keep all their property. States rights!!!!

When Robert E Lee tried to hand his sword to Ulysses Grant at Appomattox courthouse Grant told him you have been a gallant and noble foe.. keep your sword sir. I guess it all started with Grant? No comment about carpetbaggers and the failed effort at reconstruction??

FTR there wasn't much property left for the defeated rebels to work with. WT Sherman and his scorched earth policy made sure of that.

So it's OK for Desantis and the Florida GOP to impose orthodoxy on educators?

[cradleandshoot]

Back to the thread topic. If you have the chance and an interest, read through this and tell folks what you think:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 ... /Filed/PDF

well, that's quite a read.

So...we don't want to propagandize in eduction? I thought that was the criticism?

Yikes, this is a forthright, explicit statement of propaganda. One answer, our answer, no discussion allowed, with complete 'teeth' to hire and fire anyone who gets even close to a discussion, or is even suspected of such...

And we're talking higher education where exposure to contrary points of view is normally considered an essential part of the educational process...we're not talking about 2nd graders here...

This is partisan government, activist government, enacting extreme policies...the opposite of small c conservativism.

Fascist.

When I was in college, government major, we were exposed to Marxism, read Marx, had a few professors who espoused Marxist critiques of capitalism...didn't make us Marxists, but did enable us to think critically and to understand those perspectives. Understand the counterpoints, be able to think about those critiques and how to address them, constructively...of course, this sort of exposure assumed that we were capable of such analysis, not that we were automotons who needed to be told how to think so as to best serve the existing social structure...and not to question it.

Fascists have a different objective.

I must be losing it MD. I took your advise and others and read it, still can't figure out what the hell it all says. I have a problem trying to read this kind of stuff. You find it fascinating I find it dull and monotonous. I'll try again to read it later after a fresh pot of coffee is made. In my defense I still read my dad's Audel carpenters guide quite a bit. I bet they would bore you silly as well. Do you understand the concept of laying out roof rafters with a framing square? Most people don't and could care less. If a subject doesn't interest you that is an obstacle that is hard to overcome.

sorry if I seemed to be saying that it was an easy or even capitivating "read".
By "quite a read" I mean that it oozes fascism...though you do have to get through the mumbledy gook to understand it.

I get it that you may not be interested in fascist policies enacted into law.

I get very uneasy when folks such as yourself start tossing around the term fascism or fascist policies. I think you dilute actual fascism into something like fascism light. When RD stands on the balcony above the cheering crowds with his arms crossed and the arrogant look on his face like Mussolini then you have a point. I have been making a similar point about how NYS is being run very similar to a tyrannical dictatorship. The governor doesn't care a rats rear end about what the people in her state think on any given issue. Gov. Hochuls response to the concealed carry permit issue involved bypassing the SCOTUS ruling and making up her own set of rules where someone with a concealed carry permit which is pretty much nowhere in the state can posses the weapon their concealed carry permit gives them. Isn't that similar to a governor ruling and acting like a fascist?? The bottom line is the same with RD and KH. They know what they think is right and will govern accordingly.

Again, read up on history - both Germany and Italy were both parliamentary democratic republics in the 1930s. as is Hungary currently.
The first two didn't end up that way and the third is on its way to a similar outcome. Keep in mind a LOT had to happen before those balcony scenes occurred (then it was too late).

While you're at the library checking up - also grab a copy of It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Appropriately published in 1935

Then explain to me how it happens here? The USA is not Germany and Italy circa 1935. In the context of the newly minted " cop city" riots in Atlanta the pendulum swings in both directions when the conversation involves the tactics being used by extremists on both sides. Those loveable little munchkins with the black clothing and hoodies are launching firebombs at the police. F**k the police is their rally cry. I guess your too busy waiting for RD and his people to carry you off to the conservative torture chambers? The same powers in our government that impeached trump and are now working diligently to hold him accountable in a court of law are the safeguards in our country has in place. If elected POTUS he could only do what the 2 houses of Congress will allow. I understand your concern but when that concern meanders into the world of paranoia maybe it is time for you to reevaluate your position. RD may be a jerk in your opinion. When you start comparing him to Hitler and Mussolini your exaggerating beyond what a rational person would think. What your doing is spreading fear.

FTR, since your asking me to read up on history, take your own advice. If you back up a few decades to the treaty of Versailles you will understand the genesis of how the fascists came to power in the 1930s. The victors in WW1 went out of their way punish the huns. How did that work out in the long run? Maybe now you will understand the different approach taken at the end of WW2. Before he was assassinated Abraham Lincoln said that the defeated confederacy needed to be treated as misguided brothers and not a conquered enemy. Our nation screwed the pooch on that front. It has been 150 plus years and we still treat the south as a conquered enemy.

And there it is. The cause of so many problems. The north let the south keep their weapons and go home with their horses. They should have been allowed to keep all their property. States rights!!!!

When Robert E Lee tried to hand his sword to Ulysses Grant at Appomattox courthouse Grant told him you have been a gallant and noble foe.. keep your sword sir. I guess it all started with Grant? No comment about carpetbaggers and the failed effort at reconstruction??

FTR there wasn't much property left for the defeated rebels to work with. WT Sherman and his scorched earth policy made sure of that.

So it's OK for Desantis and the Florida GOP to impose orthodoxy on educators?

No more so than the governor of NYS imposing her set of rules that bypass the spirit of a controversial SCOTUS decision allowing concealed carry permits in her state. It may not be okay for RD to do what he is doing in your opinion. Not unlike the issue in NYS with concealed carry permits. What will decide the issue will ultimately be determined in the courts. When you cut to the chase counselor, isn't litigating the bread and butter of your profession?