Hobart 2023

[oldbartman]

You have to know your defensive capabilities.... why not try zone, switch back and forth....

I actually thought for a second they were actually in a zone. Left someone completly open on the lower left. If they were not then I have no idea what type of slide package they were/weren't running at the time.

nah..never mind. I just found some highlights on youtube and one of the points I thought they may have been in a zone they were not........my bad.

As I've said, the defense needs to go back to square 1. It sure looked like the players were looking around wondering who was supposed to be where or who was supposed to cover that wide open Cornell player. The D has been a mess for all 4 games.

[FMUBart]

Cornell highlights...!

The FL Times game article is on the Cornell thread. Interesting that Coach R says guys play nervous
and uptight despite having zero pressure. They do seem to play tentatively at times. I really thought after
they got it to 9-5 at half that the game might get close--alas, the same 2nd half letdown ensued. Just makes
me wonder how intensely they practice against one another? Can't create game day intensity, but practices need
to be competitive to improve and get accustomed to pressure, especially on-ball pressure. Statesmen need to circle the wagons and find their identity...

[oldbartman]

Cornell highlights...!

The FL Times game article is on the Cornell thread. Interesting that Coach R says guys play nervous
and uptight despite having zero pressure. They do seem to play tentatively at times. I really thought after
they got it to 9-5 at half that the game might get close--alas, the same 2nd half letdown ensued. Just makes
me wonder how intensely they practice against one another? Can't create game day intensity, but practices need
to be competitive to improve and get accustomed to pressure, especially on-ball pressure. Statesmen need to circle the wagons and find their identity...

+1

[oldbartman]

FL Times article https://www.fltimes.com/sports/mens-lac ... 190a1.html

Coach Raymond talks about the players being nervous on field. Maybe if you let more guys see the field for more than 12 seconds they wouldn't be nervous about possibly making a mistake and getting yanked immediately. Shades of Poillon....

[man:down]

Based on podcasts, coaches play whoever they think will be the "most consistent" for them - based on what they see in practices (and the goalie spot is an outright competition all week). Are these guys the most consistent?

The offense has been an experiment since the fall scrimmages when they moved 3 middies to attack. They seem to completely abandon their plan (what we saw in Q1 of the Lehigh game) as soon as they go down a few goals or lose momentum. One player said that he thinks those guys feel like they "need to make a big play" which is why they try to do too much solo work. In D1 with coaches preaching certain things, why does this happen? And can we say that the experiment is over and it is time to shift things around and try some players who won't fall in to that trap? We need offensive threats who also move the ball quickly like Datellas and Delano and Rosa but why not complement them with some sort of a quarterback/field general/feeder to keep players and the ball moving at attack and run guys like Herlihey and Greene out of the box? Try a different 3rd attack?

[SMAIN]

I see where both Coach Raymond and the defensive coordinator (Chris Fisher) were both long stick midfielders during their college days. Maybe that's the problem.... don't completely understand defense and how to teach it.

[oldbartman]

I see where both Coach Raymond and the defensive coordinator (Chris Fisher) were both long stick midfielders during their college days. Maybe that's the problem.... don't completely understand defense and how to teach it.

Raymond was D coach under Tierney at Princeton. He knows how to coach the D. Not so sure about our current sets. Watch the game "highlights" on the Cornell thread.

[Ketch]

Based on podcasts, coaches play whoever they think will be the "most consistent" for them - based on what they see in practices (and the goalie spot is an outright competition all week). Are these guys the most consistent?

The offense has been an experiment since the fall scrimmages when they moved 3 middies to attack. They seem to completely abandon their plan (what we saw in Q1 of the Lehigh game) as soon as they go down a few goals or lose momentum. One player said that he thinks those guys feel like they "need to make a big play" which is why they try to do too much solo work. In D1 with coaches preaching certain things, why does this happen? And can we say that the experiment is over and it is time to shift things around and try some players who won't fall in to that trap? We need offensive threats who also move the ball quickly like Datellas and Delano and Rosa but why not complement them with some sort of a quarterback/field general/feeder to keep players and the ball moving at attack and run guys like Herlihey and Greene out of the box? Try a different 3rd attack?

I get having Datellas on attack. That's his natural position. I don't get having Herlihy on attack. He's a midfielder. A first line midfield of Herlihy, Bach, and Simas would be very powerful, so put Herlihy back there and figure the rest out on attack. The pieces are there. I did think that Greene looked god coming out of the box last night.

[Farfromgeneva]

FL Times article https://www.fltimes.com/sports/mens-lac ... 190a1.html

Coach Raymond talks about the players being nervous on field. Maybe if you let more guys see the field for more than 12 seconds they wouldn't be nervous about possibly making a mistake and getting yanked immediately. Shades of Poillon....

This quote was scary to me, good lord…

“Against these big, strong, fast opponents, I just feel like they have the ball the whole game,” Hobart head coach Greg Raymond said. “I feel like we fail in clears that are critical and we don’t win face-offs. I feel like Cornell had the ball the whole game and we did a poor job possessing it offensively. We, as a coaching staff, have to take a real hard look at how we play big-time teams like this because we have to put out a better product than that.”

[Farfromgeneva]

You have to know your defensive capabilities.... why not try zone, switch back and forth....

I actually thought for a second they were actually in a zone. Left someone completly open on the lower left. If they were not then I have no idea what type of slide package they were/weren't running at the time.

nah..never mind. I just found some highlights on youtube and one of the points I thought they may have been in a zone they were not........my bad.

As I've said, the defense needs to go back to square 1. It sure looked like the players were looking around wondering who was supposed to be where or who was supposed to cover that wide open Cornell player. The D has been a mess for all 4 games.

Repeating my noting Christiansen and Firth yelling at Grooms when Gate scored a wrap around goal in the Gate game.

[Farfromgeneva]

FL Times article https://www.fltimes.com/sports/mens-lac ... 190a1.html

Coach Raymond talks about the players being nervous on field. Maybe if you let more guys see the field for more than 12 seconds they wouldn't be nervous about possibly making a mistake and getting yanked immediately. Shades of Poillon....

61 man roster is as he said previously hard to manage so it would seem you only keep them all there if you intend to use more than 20 in a game.

3:1 ratio give or take.

[Farfromgeneva]

Based on podcasts, coaches play whoever they think will be the "most consistent" for them - based on what they see in practices (and the goalie spot is an outright competition all week). Are these guys the most consistent?

The offense has been an experiment since the fall scrimmages when they moved 3 middies to attack. They seem to completely abandon their plan (what we saw in Q1 of the Lehigh game) as soon as they go down a few goals or lose momentum. One player said that he thinks those guys feel like they "need to make a big play" which is why they try to do too much solo work. In D1 with coaches preaching certain things, why does this happen? And can we say that the experiment is over and it is time to shift things around and try some players who won't fall in to that trap? We need offensive threats who also move the ball quickly like Datellas and Delano and Rosa but why not complement them with some sort of a quarterback/field general/feeder to keep players and the ball moving at attack and run guys like Herlihey and Greene out of the box? Try a different 3rd attack?

Ward or Barthelme are the experienced guys who can feed from behind it seems. Heard Evnin is excellent at that. Wonder about swapping Wimer and Bach as well.

[Laxgunea]

I like the Bach Wimer swap idea. I think Bach has plateaued and Wimer is till climbing. And after a swap, I bet Bach gets more aggressive. At the same time, i wonder if he has his hands tied by the coaches ... I just don't get why he doesn't sometimes take shots. I'd also like to see Ward get some extended playing time, not just man-up. Barthelme has so much promise, but I don't think he has the vision to run things. And he also seems to be a bit slower than the others. I think Rosa is also really promising, but I don't see the level of creativity in his play that I did a month ago. He seems a bit ground down.
I also would love to see Raymond run the bench more. I didn't see the whole game, so I don't know if guys like Greenberg and Delany got in, but if not, why not? it's early in the season; it's not a league game; and it was clear with 30 minutes left that we weren't really in the game.
Remember after Bryant last year when we were all saying that the strength of this year's team was going to be its experienced defensive core? The experienced guys aren't getting it done.
BTW, I heard Shaifer is out for the year with an acl injury.

[Laxtradomus]

This might be an unpopular opinion but i think Coach Raymond is still obsessing over the success that the 2020 team had, and is failing to adjust the scheme to fit the current roster better. This team isn't athletic or deep enough to play run and gun up and down the field. The motion offense doesn't work with this group of guys they constantly suffocate each other off ball making it easier for off ball defenses to collapse and cover multiple guys at once during a recovery. They're not good enough dodgers or shooters to play that effortless free flow style that Holden, and Archer spear headed. They need to define specific roles for guys and help them find their niche spot on the field where they're comfortable because outside of Dattellas they lack that killer instinct going to the net. I also think they need to grind teams down with long possessions and reduce the amount of time that they're playing defense. Granted it's not pre shot clock era 2 minute possessions anymore, but the defense constantly finds themselves defending against multiple possessions in a row where they're so tired the off ball mistakes add up (especially with how thin the defensive and 2 way midfield is). Also fair to point out that Cornell team is built for championship weekend they're deep, fast, strong, and tough as nails. While this isn't the sexy fun fast paced style your used to it will certainly help navigate what i consider a rebuild year and who knows maybe it's time for a change. It's tough to run with acc and ivy league teams for all 4 quarters with the athletes Hobart has (strength and conditioning staff certainly doesn't do them any favors) Maybe it's time to take a step back and play smarter and more patient lacrosse.

[Farfromgeneva]

This might be an unpopular opinion but i think Coach Raymond is still obsessing over the success that the 2020 team had, and is failing to adjust the scheme to fit the current roster better. This team isn't athletic or deep enough to play run and gun up and down the field. The motion offense doesn't work with this group of guys they constantly suffocate each other off ball making it easier for off ball defenses to collapse and cover multiple guys at once during a recovery. They're not good enough dodgers or shooters to play that effortless free flow style that Holden, and Archer spear headed. They need to define specific roles for guys and help them find their niche spot on the field where they're comfortable because outside of Dattellas they lack that killer instinct going to the net. I also think they need to grind teams down with long possessions and reduce the amount of time that they're playing defense. Granted it's not pre shot clock era 2 minute possessions anymore, but the defense constantly finds themselves defending against multiple possessions in a row where they're so tired the off ball mistakes add up (especially with how thin the defensive and 2 way midfield is). Also fair to point out that Cornell team is built for championship weekend they're deep, fast, strong, and tough as nails. While this isn't the sexy fun fast paced style your used to it will certainly help navigate what i consider a rebuild year and who knows maybe it's time for a change. It's tough to run with acc and ivy league teams for all 4 quarters with the athletes Hobart has (strength and conditioning staff certainly doesn't do them any favors) Maybe it's time to take a step back and play smarter and more patient lacrosse.

We blew back to back massive late game leads to RoMo & SHU in 2019. With effectively the same team as 2020….

Last reg season game vs RoMo in 2019: 15-11 <3 min left in 3rd lose 16-15 in OT (shut out rest of way as they go on 5-0 run)

Rd 1 of NEC vs SHU: scrape by 14-13 in a game were dominating up 14-7 late in 3rd, they go on 6-0 run to close out last 18min

Also dropped a OT game to SJU we were up by 2-3 halfway through the fourth then shut out the rest of the way in 2019-literally should’ve been 13-3 instead of 11-5 that year (or better if we had hosted in 2019 NEC playoffs IMO)

This ain’t new or a function of talent on team. Given that plus some LIU guy bugged out earlier about “dropping 20 on us and expecting to win”-it was 19 but we were up 21-14 w 6:30 left which homeboy somehow things was close because it ended up 22-19 as if a 3 goal lead means something the way we give up leads. Also was up 7-3 in the 3rd in that disastrous, half team injured L to SHU which was 9-8 in OT.

I can go back to 2017-2018 if anyone would like more examples across teams with different profiles, skills and abilities and characteristics but I think the point is that something else needs to be tried/changed at the planning, prep, player development and in game management when this is happening across varied types of teams and personnel. And not blowing leads to top 5-8 teams like was more common in the Kerwick era when it happened Cuse and GTown regularly (the worst in my time was a 9-3 Q3 lead to 10-9 on the boz vs GTown who was top 5 in 99).

[Laxtradomus]

This might be an unpopular opinion but i think Coach Raymond is still obsessing over the success that the 2020 team had, and is failing to adjust the scheme to fit the current roster better. This team isn't athletic or deep enough to play run and gun up and down the field. The motion offense doesn't work with this group of guys they constantly suffocate each other off ball making it easier for off ball defenses to collapse and cover multiple guys at once during a recovery. They're not good enough dodgers or shooters to play that effortless free flow style that Holden, and Archer spear headed. They need to define specific roles for guys and help them find their niche spot on the field where they're comfortable because outside of Dattellas they lack that killer instinct going to the net. I also think they need to grind teams down with long possessions and reduce the amount of time that they're playing defense. Granted it's not pre shot clock era 2 minute possessions anymore, but the defense constantly finds themselves defending against multiple possessions in a row where they're so tired the off ball mistakes add up (especially with how thin the defensive and 2 way midfield is). Also fair to point out that Cornell team is built for championship weekend they're deep, fast, strong, and tough as nails. While this isn't the sexy fun fast paced style your used to it will certainly help navigate what i consider a rebuild year and who knows maybe it's time for a change. It's tough to run with acc and ivy league teams for all 4 quarters with the athletes Hobart has (strength and conditioning staff certainly doesn't do them any favors) Maybe it's time to take a step back and play smarter and more patient lacrosse.

We blew back to back massive late game leads to RoMo & SHU in 2019. With effectively the same team as 2020….

Last reg season game vs RoMo in 2019: 15-11 <3 min left in 3rd lose 16-15 in OT (shut out rest of way as they go on 5-0 run)

Rd 1 of NEC vs SHU: scrape by 14-13 in a game were dominating up 14-7 late in 3rd, they go on 6-0 run to close out last 18min

Also dropped a OT game to SJU we were up by 2-3 halfway through the fourth then shut out the rest of the way in 2019-literally should’ve been 13-3 instead of 11-5 that year (or better if we had hosted in 2019 NEC playoffs IMO)

This ain’t new or a function of talent on team. Given that plus some LIU guy bugged out earlier about “dropping 20 on us and expecting to win”-it was 19 but we were up 21-14 w 6:30 left which homeboy somehow things was close because it ended up 22-19 as if a 3 goal lead means something the way we give up leads. Also was up 7-3 in the 3rd in that disastrous, half team injured L to SHU which was 9-8 in OT.

I can go back to 2017-2018 if anyone would like more examples across teams with different profiles, skills and abilities and characteristics but I think the point is that something else needs to be tried/changed at the planning, prep, player development and in game management when this is happening across varied types of teams and personnel. And not blowing leads to top 5-8 teams like was more common in the Kerwick era when it happened Cuse and GTown regularly (the worst in my time was a 9-3 Q3 lead to 10-9 on the boz vs GTown who was top 5 in 99).

That is a very good point focusing on the out of conference games is putting the cart before the horse, especially when the team fails to get it done in the conference games that matter the most in making the post season. I was a little harsh on the offense there are certainly some very good lacrosse players out there, it's just frustrating seeing them look hesitant and unsure of themselves. As for the painful past of blown leads and choking in huge moments it's obviously on the coaching staff. They don't really have a winning culture or roadmap they're kind of a mush. They set the tone for the players and when turd hits the fan they rarely calm the team down or provide a hot fix. Like that LIU game you mentioned Hobart tried to double LaCalandra in the two man game behind the net. It worked the first play, and then he wised up and stepped off and had like 6 assists through the skip lane. We're predictable and seemingly very easy to scout. It feels like we're almost in a purgatory because while Coach Raymond has his ups and downs i don't know of any potential replacements available that are good enough. Jamison Koesterer maybe, but he seems like a carbon copy of coach Raymond.

[oldbartman]

The 4 game circus of mix and match on the offense has lead to players not getting used to one and other. Put Herlihy back at midfield with Simas and Considine. Move Bach to the 2nd line with Peterkin and give him some runs at SSDM. It amazes me that a player who had well over 100pts as a HS senior has turned into a draw and pass only player. Greene looked better coming out of the box last night. He's fast an has some good moves but, we need someone else to be running the offense. Barthelme has good vision, but needs to move and react quicker to slides. Delano has the shake to create separation to then draw a slide.. In other words, there are other options on attack. While the object of the game is to win, teams won't win when they only run 18- guys a game. Lengthening the bench now will pay off in league play. Having players who are comfortable on the field, whether they are on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd line has proven to win games late in the season. Hopefully there are some significant changes made for the next 2 games. Otherwise, the season will become dreadfully long. Stubbornness doesn't help.

[FMUBart]

Two thoughts:
1) Coach said against these "big, strong & fast" opponents we struggle to play much offense...we need to be BIG STRONG & FAST, too. We are D1 with some decided disadvantages against the better funded D1's and the Ivies. Nonetheless, the reason Dattelas & Herlihy are at attack is probably because they have the requisite size & skill to handle the pressure. Look at UVA's defense, or any ACC team really--they're all big boys, and talented.

2) A 61 man roster is ridiculous if you're only playing 20. I understand developing guys, but we need to play more now vs waiting for league play.
We all know that the bench won't suddenly get longer against the A10; may even get shorter. Maybe Coach's disdain for the portal leads to a bigger roster with the hope of developing player's. Hard to develop too much w/o game experience.

Ok, too much coffee..

[Farfromgeneva]

Two thoughts:
1) Coach said against these "big, strong & fast" opponents we struggle to play much offense...we need to be BIG STRONG & FAST, too. We are D1 with some decided disadvantages against the better funded D1's and the Ivies. Nonetheless, the reason Dattelas & Herlihy are at attack is probably because they have the requisite size & skill to handle the pressure. Look at UVA's defense, or any ACC team really--they're all big boys, and talented.

2) A 61 man roster is ridiculous if you're only playing 20. I understand developing guys, but we need to play more now vs waiting for league play.
We all know that the bench won't suddenly get longer against the A10; may even get shorter. Maybe Coach's disdain for the portal leads to a bigger roster with the hope of developing player's. Hard to develop too much w/o game experience.

Ok, too much coffee..

I’ve been on two pots a day last few months. Ready to face off by lunchtime!

#2 agreed.

#1-Ward and Barthelme could set up shop behind the cage I would think. Rosa plays bigger than his size, little bit of a different player than Curtin but reminds me of him

[FMUBart]

Rosa does remind me of Curtin, but still see him as more of an off-ball, catch-n-shoot guy. Seems as though the offense is usually initiated from the wings as opposed to X. Although the middie isolations tend to be dodging from behind(like Greene was doing), although not really looking to feed, just get to the cage(which could be due to the fact that a slide is rarely needed). Would like to see more big/little picks with the attackmen and maybe create separation for Anthony or Herilihy...