All Things Russia & Ukraine

[MDlaxfan76]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

[youthathletics]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

[MDlaxfan76]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

[youthathletics]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

I explained completely why I wrote what I did. And I heard Zelenskyy loud and clear. Would it help if I post it from a major news source so you can’t blame Twitter?l for what Zelenskyy said.

I guess you’re okay getting Americans killed….got it.

[old salt]

New ship construction is authorized in budgets by Congress. No amount of DoD audits will find enough spare change under the cushions to build a 12th nuc carrier, even if we still had the ship building capacity to do it.
Cool. Out.

So you get the last word?

Yeah, ok. You get the last word.

nope, it's 11 not 12, and there are less expensive ways to achieve this level.

...with smaller, less capable carriers, not capable of operating on the far side of the world for 9 mos at a stretch.

Congress threw in the towel & amended the law to 11 when it became obvious we didn't have the capability to catch up.
https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL32731.html

We've maintained 12 carrier level tasking & it's just a matter of time until...
https://news.usni.org/2020/11/12/no-mar ... of-overuse

Just correcting the facts, as you sometimes play loose with them...I'd assumed, however, that it was an honest mistake and you'd say, oops, I got that wrong.

You want to make the argument that we really need 15, no sweat...but "law" ain't that.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/8062
https://midwesterncitizen.com/2021/12/t ... t-century/

When was the law changed from 12 to 11 ? We haven't had 12 in commission since the JFK retired in 2007.

So, you agree, it's 11?
Is that an admission you were in error?

Again, I'm fine with anyone making an argument that we need much more capacity, damn the costs, but let's not falsely claim that there's a "law" that we must do so.

Seems to me that there is a reasonable argument to be made for re-thinking, in each era, what the best use of resources will be to positively influence the world in ways that are good for America and the world, and defend against serious potential threats of the future.

Hard power/soft power both.

I'm far from an 'expert' on that topic, but obviously I'd want that argument to be had in each era...looking forward, not backward.

Yes. I agree it's 11. I'd forgotten that Congress reduced it to 11 when it became obvious we didn't have the shipbuilding capacity to get back up to 12 nuc super carriers. The salient fact remains -- tasking is still at the 12 carrier strike group level.

A rethinking takes place every time advance funding must be budgeted for the next new carrier to replace one that's retiring.
Sometimes the rethinking even takes place when a mid-life nuc reactor refueling comes up for funding.

Unmanned aircraft (tankers first) will soon be operating from our current carrier decks.

I can argue for 12 big nuc super carriers, or for more smaller conventionally powered carriers, or for no carriers.
I trust the decision makers to have access to better info & intel on how to meet the future threats we anticipate than I do.

I'm partial to conventionally powered carriers, homeported overseas with their escorts & air wings.
I've done it both ways -- the forward deployed conventional CVBG I was part of, was more effective than the CONUS based nuc CVBG I was part of & those we encountered, even though the CONUS based nuc CVBG had a bigger, newer carrier & more capable newer model aircraft.

[old salt]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

...question dodged.

[a fan]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

...question dodged.

I'll answer it: Zelensky was talking about what happens if Ukraine loses. He thinks US and NATO troops will have to come in IF Ukraine "loses".

That's what he meant. And it's both hypothetical and nebulous.

[youthathletics]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

...question dodged.

I'll answer it: Zelensky was talking about what happens if Ukraine loses. He thinks US and NATO troops will have to come in IF Ukraine "loses".

That's what he meant. And it's both hypothetical and nebulous.

and if Ukraine loses, who else loses? Yep, so losing is no longer on the table….we are already. ALL IN. Zelenskyy has the table already set.

[MDlaxfan76]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

I explained completely why I wrote what I did. And I heard Zelenskyy loud and clear. Would it help if I post it from a major news source so you can’t blame Twitter?l for what Zelenskyy said.

I guess you’re okay getting Americans killed….got it.

Huh?
You literally claimed he said something he absolutely did NOT say.

Try it again. With comprehension, please.

But putting words in someone's mouth, falsely, and then claiming that's what he really meant...nope, that's just trolling misinformation.

Again, you want to make an argument that we shouldn't be helping Ukraine win, have at it...just don't lie or "misrepresent" about what someone has said. It destroys the credibility of any argument you want to have considered.

[MDlaxfan76]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

...question dodged.

I'll answer it: Zelensky was talking about what happens if Ukraine loses. He thinks US and NATO troops will have to come in IF Ukraine "loses".

That's what he meant. And it's both hypothetical and nebulous.

come in?

No, that's not "NATO"...and he's explicitly saying NATO not Ukraine.

He's saying Putin won't stop unless he's stopped...preferably by Ukraine in Ukraine with "god forbid" no need for American sons and daughters.

[MDlaxfan76]

New ship construction is authorized in budgets by Congress. No amount of DoD audits will find enough spare change under the cushions to build a 12th nuc carrier, even if we still had the ship building capacity to do it.
Cool. Out.

So you get the last word?

Yeah, ok. You get the last word.

nope, it's 11 not 12, and there are less expensive ways to achieve this level.

...with smaller, less capable carriers, not capable of operating on the far side of the world for 9 mos at a stretch.

Congress threw in the towel & amended the law to 11 when it became obvious we didn't have the capability to catch up.
https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL32731.html

We've maintained 12 carrier level tasking & it's just a matter of time until...
https://news.usni.org/2020/11/12/no-mar ... of-overuse

Just correcting the facts, as you sometimes play loose with them...I'd assumed, however, that it was an honest mistake and you'd say, oops, I got that wrong.

You want to make the argument that we really need 15, no sweat...but "law" ain't that.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/8062
https://midwesterncitizen.com/2021/12/t ... t-century/

When was the law changed from 12 to 11 ? We haven't had 12 in commission since the JFK retired in 2007.

So, you agree, it's 11?
Is that an admission you were in error?

Again, I'm fine with anyone making an argument that we need much more capacity, damn the costs, but let's not falsely claim that there's a "law" that we must do so.

Seems to me that there is a reasonable argument to be made for re-thinking, in each era, what the best use of resources will be to positively influence the world in ways that are good for America and the world, and defend against serious potential threats of the future.

Hard power/soft power both.

I'm far from an 'expert' on that topic, but obviously I'd want that argument to be had in each era...looking forward, not backward.

Yes. I agree it's 11. I'd forgotten that Congress reduced it to 11 when it became obvious we didn't have the shipbuilding capacity to get back up to 12 nuc super carriers. The salient fact remains -- tasking is still at the 12 carrier strike group level.

A rethinking takes place every time advance funding must be budgeted for the next new carrier to replace one that's retiring.
Sometimes the rethinking even takes place when a mid-life nuc reactor refueling comes up for funding.

Unmanned aircraft (tankers first) will soon be operating from our current carrier decks.

I can argue for 12 big nuc super carriers, or for more smaller conventionally powered carriers, or for no carriers.
I trust the decision makers to have access to better info & intel on how to meet the future threats we anticipate than I do.

I'm partial to conventionally powered carriers, homeported overseas with their escorts & air wings.
I've done it both ways -- the forward deployed conventional CVBG I was part of, was more effective than the CONUS based nuc CVBG I was part of & those we encountered, even though the CONUS based nuc CVBG had a bigger, newer carrier & more capable newer model aircraft.

Reasonable and thanks.

[youthathletics]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

I explained completely why I wrote what I did. And I heard Zelenskyy loud and clear. Would it help if I post it from a major news source so you can’t blame Twitter?l for what Zelenskyy said.

I guess you’re okay getting Americans killed….got it.

Huh?
You literally claimed he said something he absolutely did NOT say.

Try it again. With comprehension, please.

But putting words in someone's mouth, falsely, and then claiming that's what he really meant...nope, that's just trolling misinformation.

Again, you want to make an argument that we shouldn't be helping Ukraine win, have at it...just don't lie or "misrepresent" about what someone has said. It destroys the credibility of any argument you want to have considered.

Doubling down looks bad on you.

[MDlaxfan76]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

I explained completely why I wrote what I did. And I heard Zelenskyy loud and clear. Would it help if I post it from a major news source so you can’t blame Twitter?l for what Zelenskyy said.

I guess you’re okay getting Americans killed….got it.

Huh?
You literally claimed he said something he absolutely did NOT say.

Try it again. With comprehension, please.

But putting words in someone's mouth, falsely, and then claiming that's what he really meant...nope, that's just trolling misinformation.

Again, you want to make an argument that we shouldn't be helping Ukraine win, have at it...just don't lie or "misrepresent" about what someone has said. It destroys the credibility of any argument you want to have considered.

Doubling down looks bad on you.

yes, it does on you.
You literally lied about what he said and are trying, rather desperately, to pivot away from just admitting that wasn't what he said. It's ok to say oops.

Go ahead and make your argument that we shouldn't be helping Ukraine win and I'll engage in an honest, straight discussion with you.

Just don't troll us with tripe.

[a fan]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

...question dodged.

I'll answer it: Zelensky was talking about what happens if Ukraine loses. He thinks US and NATO troops will have to come in IF Ukraine "loses".

That's what he meant. And it's both hypothetical and nebulous.

come in?

No, that's not "NATO"...and he's explicitly saying NATO not Ukraine.

He's saying Putin won't stop unless he's stopped...preferably by Ukraine in Ukraine with "god forbid" no need for American sons and daughters.

First of all,it's a translation. Secondly, it's clipped....what did he say before the start of that clip? Third..when was this recorded?

Because based on what you're saying here? I now haven't the foggiest idea what Zelensky is saying here, or what he's responding to.....

Anyone got the whole thing?

[a fan]

and if Ukraine loses, who else loses? Yep, so losing is no longer on the table….we are already. ALL IN. Zelenskyy has the table already set.

He doesn't define what "loses" means. Where's the whole piece, and when was it recorded?

[MDlaxfan76]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

...question dodged.

I'll answer it: Zelensky was talking about what happens if Ukraine loses. He thinks US and NATO troops will have to come in IF Ukraine "loses".

That's what he meant. And it's both hypothetical and nebulous.

come in?

No, that's not "NATO"...and he's explicitly saying NATO not Ukraine.

He's saying Putin won't stop unless he's stopped...preferably by Ukraine in Ukraine with "god forbid" no need for American sons and daughters.

First of all,it's a translation. Secondly, it's clipped....what did he say before the start of that clip? Third..when was this recorded?

Because based on what you're saying here? I now haven't the foggiest idea what Zelensky is saying here, or what he's responding to.....

Anyone got the whole thing?

Yes, as I don't know Ukrainian, I'm taking as accurate what the translator translates, and the English text claims he said...and that ain't what youth represented.

Now, if he said something different, sure...but I'm going by the translation as offered up...and it's pretty darn explicit.

Not sure it matters when he said it...his message, whether delivered in English or when we see a translation of him speaking in his native language, has been very, very consistent that NATO will have to fight directly if Ukraine doesn't stop Russia, defeat Russia...anything less will only embolden Putin and the hardliners and they will keep coming westward...maybe he is saying something brand new now (and the translation is wrong) but I doubt it.

[youthathletics]

Assuming translation is accurate, I wonder if Biden will share this news with the American people.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/16 ... G2y_XvlDAw

Deterring the war criminal Putin and Russia from attacking a NATO member is one of the major purposes of supporting Ukraine.

What is there to “share?”

DocBarrister

Did you hear his words. He wants our soldiers fighting on the ground with his people.

Huh? Read it again.

That's NOT what he's saying...IF Ukraine loses, Zelensky is predicting that Putin will not stop, he'll be on NATO's doorstep and the fight will continue. And if that fight continues, America will be sending its sons and daughters to war.

Nowhere is he asking for them to come now.

Why would you misrepresent this?

sheesh….see the forest. Do you think we are going to allow Ukraine to lose? And if they do lose….who goes down with them in our current proxy war? What would be the next steps is we see that Russia is going to win?

sheesh yourself, look at what you wrote...it's a complete misrepresentation, a flat out lie, for that matter.

Did you just not read it yourself, listen yourself, or did you just vibe with the nutcases in your Twitter feed?

Now, if you have an actual issue with our helping Ukraine win this war, I'm all ears...but not for misrepresentations and lies, that are nothing more than Putinesque trolling.

I explained completely why I wrote what I did. And I heard Zelenskyy loud and clear. Would it help if I post it from a major news source so you can’t blame Twitter?l for what Zelenskyy said.

I guess you’re okay getting Americans killed….got it.

Huh?
You literally claimed he said something he absolutely did NOT say.

Try it again. With comprehension, please.

But putting words in someone's mouth, falsely, and then claiming that's what he really meant...nope, that's just trolling misinformation.

Again, you want to make an argument that we shouldn't be helping Ukraine win, have at it...just don't lie or "misrepresent" about what someone has said. It destroys the credibility of any argument you want to have considered.

Doubling down looks bad on you.

yes, it does on you.
You literally lied about what he said and are trying, rather desperately, to pivot away from just admitting that wasn't what he said. It's ok to say oops.

Go ahead and make your argument that we shouldn't be helping Ukraine win and I'll engage in an honest, straight discussion with you.

Just don't troll us with tripe.

this has nothing to do with helping via proxy/financially. Take your argument up with Zelenskyy. His comments puts us in a bind a rock and a hard place. Because losing at this point IS NOT AN OPTION. Zelenskyy is a saying if we can’t win, send in troops.

You’ve said you don’t want that, so you should agree Zelenskyy, by his very words spoke out of turn, unless Biden already called the ball.

[a fan]

Yes, as I don't know Ukrainian, I'm taking as accurate what the translator translates, and the English text claims he said...and that ain't what youth represented.

Now, if he said something different, sure...but I'm going by the translation as offered up...and it's pretty darn explicit.

Not sure it matters when he said it...his message, whether delivered in English or when we see a translation of him speaking in his native language, has been very, very consistent that NATO will have to fight directly if Ukraine doesn't stop Russia, defeat Russia...anything less will only embolden Putin and the hardliners and they will keep coming westward...maybe he is saying something brand new now (and the translation is wrong) but I doubt it.

Okay, so we DID hear the same thing.

The piece as cut is as I said.....nebulous and hypothetical. Does he mean NATO will have to go to war if Russia takes Kiev? Does he mean NATO will have to go to war if Ukraine can't put Russia out of Ukraine? Does he mean NATO will have go to war if Russia won't leave Crimea?

Does he mean that if Putin beats Ukraine, he's sure to invade a NATO country, and NATO will then have to fight?

It's completely nebulous what "loses" means. And it's hypothetical....if this, then that.

Just like I said.

[old salt]

Does he mean that if Putin beats Ukraine, he's sure to invade a NATO country, and NATO will then have to fight?

I think that's what he's saying. It's a scare tactic. There's no realistic basis for it. The Baltic states are the only former part of Russia or the USSR that are within NATO & they've been fortified with deployed NATO forces since 2017.

Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if he'd gotten another compliant President there who'd remain an ally & not threaten to take Ukraine into the EU & NATO.

[a fan]

Does he mean that if Putin beats Ukraine, he's sure to invade a NATO country, and NATO will then have to fight?

I think that's what he's saying. It's a scare tactic. There's no realistic basis for it. The Baltic states are the only former part of Russia or the USSR that are within NATO & they've been fortified with deployed NATO forces since 2017.

Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if he'd gotten another compliant President there who'd remain an ally & not threaten to take Ukraine into the EU & NATO.

That's your opinion. Mine is the same, with arms thrown in.....Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if Biden had not signaled he was adding even more arms and training than Trump did.

You told me to watch what Trump does, not what he says. Appears Putin took this same advice....watched Trump arm and train Ukraine, and wasn't at all interested in watching another POTUS do the same...