The Biden - Harris Era.

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
a fan
Posts: 19547
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by a fan »

youthathletics wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:19 pm Air space just locked down over Montana. Some strange sh!t going on.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-faa ... 023-02-12/
:lol: We have a "massive spy ring in America".

"You know, China continues to steal our intellectual property. They continue to steal our patents. They manipulate their currency. We believe they have a big footprint in academia with a massive spy ring within our research universities where they continue to steal our hard-earned research and development," Comer said.


So I'm back to my question: are the Chinese our enemy, or not? Because we're sure as sh(t aren't acting like they're anything but our best friends.


Wake me up when anyone actually does something about the Chinese students. Or giving them the 2nd most H1B work visas of any country.

Or move them from being our #1 trade partner. :roll: :lol:

...then I'll worry about space balloons, which could've just as easily been launched by Chinese student-researchers at Hopkins.....


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house- ... py-balloon
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15819
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by youthathletics »

a fan wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:39 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:19 pm Air space just locked down over Montana. Some strange sh!t going on.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-faa ... 023-02-12/
:lol: We have a "massive spy ring in America".

"You know, China continues to steal our intellectual property. They continue to steal our patents. They manipulate their currency. We believe they have a big footprint in academia with a massive spy ring within our research universities where they continue to steal our hard-earned research and development," Comer said.


So I'm back to my question: are the Chinese our enemy, or not? Because we're sure as sh(t aren't acting like they're anything but our best friends.


Wake me up when anyone actually does something about the Chinese students. Or giving them the 2nd most H1B work visas of any country.

Or move them from being our #1 trade partner. :roll: :lol:

...then I'll worry about space balloons, which could've just as easily been launched by Chinese student-researchers at Hopkins.....


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house- ... py-balloon
😂😂We can’t even agree on what a female and male are, maybe we can add a C to LGBTQ and C for China. That oughta solve it. 😉
Enjoy the game, hopefully you are not working late today.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
a fan
Posts: 19547
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by a fan »

youthathletics wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:53 pm 😂😂We can’t even agree on what a female and male are, maybe we can add a C to LGBTQ and C for China.
Sure we can! You just want to pretend you don't get it.....you're lying to me, telling me you don't know what polite society is.

:lol: And where the heck did THAT response come from? :lol:

Enjoy the game! I'll be on a plane....
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34082
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

a fan wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:24 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:53 pm 😂😂We can’t even agree on what a female and male are, maybe we can add a C to LGBTQ and C for China.
Sure we can! You just want to pretend you don't get it.....you're lying to me, telling me you don't know what polite society is.

:lol: And where the heck did THAT response come from? :lol:

Enjoy the game! I'll be on a plane....
Finally found your bourbon out here. Hope to pick up bottles next Monday
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23816
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27086
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
I assume you meant cannot, not "can"...

What aspect do you find particularly objectionable and why?

I didn't have an issue, for instance, with the Buy American provisions in the IRA bill.

The Dems, and particularly the moderate wing looking to rebuild support among working class voters not necessarily on the coasts, are looking for ways that move the needle in working class folks' lives. Especially younger working class families with children, making it easier for household formation and having children...

They'd largely ignored these folks, as had the GOP, for several decades...at least so far as substantive policy measures (child tax credit being an exception...but now gone). Here's an opportunity to not ignore...

These are big companies who could get a $150 million plus loan, not SMB's, so setting expectations about child care, or family leave, etc are not onerous, rather they are definitely doable efficiently. Lots of very large companies do these measures, at least to some degree...but not all do...however want our dough, then take care of your employees. And yes, we need to get women back into the workforce. (BTW, the family leave thing...which doesn't appear to have been included, is very much a dad thing too when its "parental" not merely maternal...there's actually a bi-partisan effort brewing to get this sort of thing done for dads.)

No stock buybacks? Heck, makes a ton of sense to me...we've seen money flow from Washington to companies to shareholders, ignoring reinvestment much less workers...that's not the objective of this program.

I'd need to see the "excess profits" calculation, as that sounds problematic, but in principle I can see why they'd be saying they want to share in any unexpected windfall returns...I think we should be thinking that way about all sorts of government risk funding, eg tech risk, Pharma, etc...
a fan
Posts: 19547
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by a fan »

If anyone is following the massive waves that are forming because of the CHIPS act.......Taiwan and China are rapidly fading in our rear view mirror.

Score more points for Biden. You wanted to stand up to China? Biden is actually walking the walk. With more to come. Tip of the hat.

You don't need to arm Taiwan. You simply move to make them irrelevant. A lesson we should have learned after 40+ years of mess in the ME, chasing oil.

https://www.semiconductors.org/the-chip ... roduction/
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15819
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by youthathletics »

a fan wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:35 pm If anyone is following the massive waves that are forming because of the CHIPS act.......Taiwan and China are rapidly fading in our rear view mirror.

Score more points for Biden. You wanted to stand up to China? Biden is actually walking the walk. With more to come. Tip of the hat.

You don't need to arm Taiwan. You simply move to make them irrelevant. A lesson we should have learned after 40+ years of mess in the ME, chasing oil.

https://www.semiconductors.org/the-chip ... roduction/
Great news indeed.

OS posted a link c-span chat on this...never got around to listening: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p409320

TLD thought it was funny that we could do this in such short time and did not like the speed at which we could do it: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p320289

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p398433
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
a fan
Posts: 19547
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by a fan »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:59 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:35 pm If anyone is following the massive waves that are forming because of the CHIPS act.......Taiwan and China are rapidly fading in our rear view mirror.

Score more points for Biden. You wanted to stand up to China? Biden is actually walking the walk. With more to come. Tip of the hat.

You don't need to arm Taiwan. You simply move to make them irrelevant. A lesson we should have learned after 40+ years of mess in the ME, chasing oil.

https://www.semiconductors.org/the-chip ... roduction/
Great news indeed.

OS posted a link c-span chat on this...never got around to listening: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p409320

TLD thought it was funny that we could do this in such short time and did not like the speed at which we could do it: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p320289

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p398433
Gotta say....didn't think Biden had it in him. Guess I was wrong. Happy to be wrong.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23816
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by Farfromgeneva »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:10 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
I assume you meant cannot, not "can"...

What aspect do you find particularly objectionable and why?

I didn't have an issue, for instance, with the Buy American provisions in the IRA bill.

The Dems, and particularly the moderate wing looking to rebuild support among working class voters not necessarily on the coasts, are looking for ways that move the needle in working class folks' lives. Especially younger working class families with children, making it easier for household formation and having children...

They'd largely ignored these folks, as had the GOP, for several decades...at least so far as substantive policy measures (child tax credit being an exception...but now gone). Here's an opportunity to not ignore...

These are big companies who could get a $150 million plus loan, not SMB's, so setting expectations about child care, or family leave, etc are not onerous, rather they are definitely doable efficiently. Lots of very large companies do these measures, at least to some degree...but not all do...however want our dough, then take care of your employees. And yes, we need to get women back into the workforce. (BTW, the family leave thing...which doesn't appear to have been included, is very much a dad thing too when its "parental" not merely maternal...there's actually a bi-partisan effort brewing to get this sort of thing done for dads.)

No stock buybacks? Heck, makes a ton of sense to me...we've seen money flow from Washington to companies to shareholders, ignoring reinvestment much less workers...that's not the objective of this program.

I'd need to see the "excess profits" calculation, as that sounds problematic, but in principle I can see why they'd be saying they want to share in any unexpected windfall returns...I think we should be thinking that way about all sorts of government risk funding, eg tech risk, Pharma, etc...
Tying investment to private capital allocation is a disaster waiting to happen every single time. Historically must be 100% I suspect.

Two separate issues to be addressed separately. Don’t provide the funds to Private enterprise do it in house. No different than the typical outsource vs build decision every company makes and with appropriate long term planning and scenario analysis which is transparently presented to owners and their primary agents. That’s not what this is.

Split the oversight or employment requirements from the investment. It’s dishonest and opaque to combine them and then sell it as only one
Thing and intentionally ignore all the second order problems that can come (see bush’s tax code change 20ish years ago and how it drove investment/capital allocation away from income generation and the follow on consequences for the working class).

But they don’t want to. It allows them to sell the need to fix the problems they created by doing it this way which will come. Political iatrogenics.

Or as the girl on Black Jeopardy says about Caitlyn Jenner being on a magazine cover…”ummm I don’t know, you can’t do EVERYTHING”

Can watch the entire skit or just jump to about 2:45 for specific reference but the whole thing is excellent:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7VaXlMvAvk
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
User avatar
HooDat
Posts: 2373
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by HooDat »

a fan wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:03 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:59 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:35 pm If anyone is following the massive waves that are forming because of the CHIPS act.......Taiwan and China are rapidly fading in our rear view mirror.

Score more points for Biden. You wanted to stand up to China? Biden is actually walking the walk. With more to come. Tip of the hat.

You don't need to arm Taiwan. You simply move to make them irrelevant. A lesson we should have learned after 40+ years of mess in the ME, chasing oil.

https://www.semiconductors.org/the-chip ... roduction/
Great news indeed.

OS posted a link c-span chat on this...never got around to listening: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p409320

TLD thought it was funny that we could do this in such short time and did not like the speed at which we could do it: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p320289

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p398433
Gotta say....didn't think Biden had it in him. Guess I was wrong. Happy to be wrong.
agreed.


also re:
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am refraining from stock buybacks
I have no problem with the gov telling companies - you have to spend this money on building something, since that is the goal. You could do it through convoluted tax incentives, but this is more direct and in my opinion therefore better.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34082
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:59 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:35 pm If anyone is following the massive waves that are forming because of the CHIPS act.......Taiwan and China are rapidly fading in our rear view mirror.

Score more points for Biden. You wanted to stand up to China? Biden is actually walking the walk. With more to come. Tip of the hat.

You don't need to arm Taiwan. You simply move to make them irrelevant. A lesson we should have learned after 40+ years of mess in the ME, chasing oil.

https://www.semiconductors.org/the-chip ... roduction/
Great news indeed.

OS posted a link c-span chat on this...never got around to listening: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p409320

TLD thought it was funny that we could do this in such short time and did not like the speed at which we could do it: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p320289

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... or#p398433
What have we done? How much capacity has been added and how soon before supply outpaces demand? By the Summer?

My position Einstein: I don’t want the us government making investment decisions in a fast moving space. These management teams can figure out how much variability they wish to tolerate. You want the government flushing your money down the drain? So we should give $100 of billions to the industry but we can’t pass infrastructure? Apple can get in line for the handout too. Why do you think the industry has high barriers to entry, Einstein?
“I wish you would!”
get it to x
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by get it to x »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:10 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
I assume you meant cannot, not "can"...

What aspect do you find particularly objectionable and why?

I didn't have an issue, for instance, with the Buy American provisions in the IRA bill.

The Dems, and particularly the moderate wing looking to rebuild support among working class voters not necessarily on the coasts, are looking for ways that move the needle in working class folks' lives. Especially younger working class families with children, making it easier for household formation and having children...

They'd largely ignored these folks, as had the GOP, for several decades...at least so far as substantive policy measures (child tax credit being an exception...but now gone). Here's an opportunity to not ignore...

These are big companies who could get a $150 million plus loan, not SMB's, so setting expectations about child care, or family leave, etc are not onerous, rather they are definitely doable efficiently. Lots of very large companies do these measures, at least to some degree...but not all do...however want our dough, then take care of your employees. And yes, we need to get women back into the workforce. (BTW, the family leave thing...which doesn't appear to have been included, is very much a dad thing too when its "parental" not merely maternal...there's actually a bi-partisan effort brewing to get this sort of thing done for dads.)

No stock buybacks? Heck, makes a ton of sense to me...we've seen money flow from Washington to companies to shareholders, ignoring reinvestment much less workers...that's not the objective of this program.

I'd need to see the "excess profits" calculation, as that sounds problematic, but in principle I can see why they'd be saying they want to share in any unexpected windfall returns...I think we should be thinking that way about all sorts of government risk funding, eg tech risk, Pharma, etc...
Your premise about the Dems courting the working class would make sense 40 years ago, but they are a party now of the technocrats, bureaucrats, big business, media and the so called elites. Their other cohort is the dependent class. They are almost like a feudal party, with the gentry and the serfs. They despise non-union worker's, who in the private sector are well over 80% of the workforce. There are also some serious cultural dissimilarities like religion and education. They would prefer a lighter hand of government, which is anathema to Dems. Vaccine mandates a case in point. They were, and are, Trump voters.
"I would never want to belong to a club that would have me as a member", Groucho Marx
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27086
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:28 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:10 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
I assume you meant cannot, not "can"...

What aspect do you find particularly objectionable and why?

I didn't have an issue, for instance, with the Buy American provisions in the IRA bill.

The Dems, and particularly the moderate wing looking to rebuild support among working class voters not necessarily on the coasts, are looking for ways that move the needle in working class folks' lives. Especially younger working class families with children, making it easier for household formation and having children...

They'd largely ignored these folks, as had the GOP, for several decades...at least so far as substantive policy measures (child tax credit being an exception...but now gone). Here's an opportunity to not ignore...

These are big companies who could get a $150 million plus loan, not SMB's, so setting expectations about child care, or family leave, etc are not onerous, rather they are definitely doable efficiently. Lots of very large companies do these measures, at least to some degree...but not all do...however want our dough, then take care of your employees. And yes, we need to get women back into the workforce. (BTW, the family leave thing...which doesn't appear to have been included, is very much a dad thing too when its "parental" not merely maternal...there's actually a bi-partisan effort brewing to get this sort of thing done for dads.)

No stock buybacks? Heck, makes a ton of sense to me...we've seen money flow from Washington to companies to shareholders, ignoring reinvestment much less workers...that's not the objective of this program.

I'd need to see the "excess profits" calculation, as that sounds problematic, but in principle I can see why they'd be saying they want to share in any unexpected windfall returns...I think we should be thinking that way about all sorts of government risk funding, eg tech risk, Pharma, etc...
Tying investment to private capital allocation is a disaster waiting to happen every single time. Historically must be 100% I suspect.

Two separate issues to be addressed separately. Don’t provide the funds to Private enterprise do it in house. No different than the typical outsource vs build decision every company makes and with appropriate long term planning and scenario analysis which is transparently presented to owners and their primary agents. That’s not what this is.

Split the oversight or employment requirements from the investment. It’s dishonest and opaque to combine them and then sell it as only one
Thing and intentionally ignore all the second order problems that can come (see bush’s tax code change 20ish years ago and how it drove investment/capital allocation away from income generation and the follow on consequences for the working class).

But they don’t want to. It allows them to sell the need to fix the problems they created by doing it this way which will come. Political iatrogenics.

Or as the girl on Black Jeopardy says about Caitlyn Jenner being on a magazine cover…”ummm I don’t know, you can’t do EVERYTHING”

Can watch the entire skit or just jump to about 2:45 for specific reference but the whole thing is excellent:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7VaXlMvAvk
your response seems overly complicated and is difficult to parse...at least for a slow poke like me.

Could you address each objective a bit more clearly as to what you are actually object and why?
(For my benefit, the cultural references is distracting from my comprehension.)

By "investment" do you mean that providing funds to these companies when they move business to the US, build factories, empty people, etc should not be done by government, should only be done by private finance?...I'd understand that argument, but I'm not sure that's what you're saying.

In the "out-source" comment are you referring to requiring them to provide affordable childcare (most companies do this with an out-sourced provider, who occupies space on campus)...is the CHIPS Act not allowing that as the way a company accomplishes the requirement?

why not accompany these dollars with such requirements? Are they actually "opaque" or do the companies know up front what they need to do to get these otherwise "free" dollars?

As to the "investment" accomplishing an ROI, the objective, at least as I hear it, is not to try to maximize ROI in direct financial returns to the government, but if the company does exceedingly well it's considering that a 'windfall'. Unexpected, but no one crying about sharing.

The stock buyback thing makes huge sense to me.
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27086
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

get it to x wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:10 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
I assume you meant cannot, not "can"...

What aspect do you find particularly objectionable and why?

I didn't have an issue, for instance, with the Buy American provisions in the IRA bill.

The Dems, and particularly the moderate wing looking to rebuild support among working class voters not necessarily on the coasts, are looking for ways that move the needle in working class folks' lives. Especially younger working class families with children, making it easier for household formation and having children...

They'd largely ignored these folks, as had the GOP, for several decades...at least so far as substantive policy measures (child tax credit being an exception...but now gone). Here's an opportunity to not ignore...

These are big companies who could get a $150 million plus loan, not SMB's, so setting expectations about child care, or family leave, etc are not onerous, rather they are definitely doable efficiently. Lots of very large companies do these measures, at least to some degree...but not all do...however want our dough, then take care of your employees. And yes, we need to get women back into the workforce. (BTW, the family leave thing...which doesn't appear to have been included, is very much a dad thing too when its "parental" not merely maternal...there's actually a bi-partisan effort brewing to get this sort of thing done for dads.)

No stock buybacks? Heck, makes a ton of sense to me...we've seen money flow from Washington to companies to shareholders, ignoring reinvestment much less workers...that's not the objective of this program.

I'd need to see the "excess profits" calculation, as that sounds problematic, but in principle I can see why they'd be saying they want to share in any unexpected windfall returns...I think we should be thinking that way about all sorts of government risk funding, eg tech risk, Pharma, etc...
Your premise about the Dems courting the working class would make sense 40 years ago, but they are a party now of the technocrats, bureaucrats, big business, media and the so called elites. Their other cohort is the dependent class. They are almost like a feudal party, with the gentry and the serfs. They despise non-union worker's, who in the private sector are well over 80% of the workforce. There are also some serious cultural dissimilarities like religion and education. They would prefer a lighter hand of government, which is anathema to Dems. Vaccine mandates a case in point. They were, and are, Trump voters.
get it to x,
Sherrod Brown and Joe Manchin and Jon Tester and Amy Klobuchar and a whole bunch of others, including Joe Biden, would disagree with you about what the priorities for their party should be.

It's no accident that the party chose Joe Biden, as there's indeed a recognition that the Dems needed to rebuild its relationship with the working class.

Where I'd agree with you, though, is that the party (and the left generally) had become dominated by the coastal elites; I'd not argue about many, maybe most of them having lost touch with the working class, and the "left" had allowed themselves to be branded that way...Notwithstanding Bernie Sanders on the left.

I think you're entirely wrong about "despise" non-union workers, however. That's Fox or OAN talking not Sherrod Brown or heck, AOC.
Supporting workers rights to organize ain't the same as despising workers not getting those rights in their jobs.

BTW, there are little to no differences between union workers and non-union when it comes to religion, much less education. Very similar.

What I do think is anathema to the Dems (and used to be to the GOP) is racism...that's the common factor that seems to separate the MAGA crowd more than anything from other GOP and former GOP, though anti-intellectualism and anti-expertise is a big part as well...again, anti-intellectualism wasn't a factor in Buckley's GOP...nor mine.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34082
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

https://www.regions.com/-/media/pdfs/As ... -Cycle.pdf

For YE…..

The belief is that chips are more ubiquitous today and some of the historical cyclicality will be diminished. The $200B in spurred investment covers a lot of areas. I don’t like the United States government developing an investment thesis. Just me. There is a lot of time between here and there.
“I wish you would!”
get it to x
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by get it to x »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pm
get it to x wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:10 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
I assume you meant cannot, not "can"...

What aspect do you find particularly objectionable and why?

I didn't have an issue, for instance, with the Buy American provisions in the IRA bill.

The Dems, and particularly the moderate wing looking to rebuild support among working class voters not necessarily on the coasts, are looking for ways that move the needle in working class folks' lives. Especially younger working class families with children, making it easier for household formation and having children...

They'd largely ignored these folks, as had the GOP, for several decades...at least so far as substantive policy measures (child tax credit being an exception...but now gone). Here's an opportunity to not ignore...

These are big companies who could get a $150 million plus loan, not SMB's, so setting expectations about child care, or family leave, etc are not onerous, rather they are definitely doable efficiently. Lots of very large companies do these measures, at least to some degree...but not all do...however want our dough, then take care of your employees. And yes, we need to get women back into the workforce. (BTW, the family leave thing...which doesn't appear to have been included, is very much a dad thing too when its "parental" not merely maternal...there's actually a bi-partisan effort brewing to get this sort of thing done for dads.)

No stock buybacks? Heck, makes a ton of sense to me...we've seen money flow from Washington to companies to shareholders, ignoring reinvestment much less workers...that's not the objective of this program.

I'd need to see the "excess profits" calculation, as that sounds problematic, but in principle I can see why they'd be saying they want to share in any unexpected windfall returns...I think we should be thinking that way about all sorts of government risk funding, eg tech risk, Pharma, etc...
Your premise about the Dems courting the working class would make sense 40 years ago, but they are a party now of the technocrats, bureaucrats, big business, media and the so called elites. Their other cohort is the dependent class. They are almost like a feudal party, with the gentry and the serfs. They despise non-union worker's, who in the private sector are well over 80% of the workforce. There are also some serious cultural dissimilarities like religion and education. They would prefer a lighter hand of government, which is anathema to Dems. Vaccine mandates a case in point. They were, and are, Trump voters.
get it to x,
Sherrod Brown and Joe Manchin and Jon Tester and Amy Klobuchar and a whole bunch of others, including Joe Biden, would disagree with you about what the priorities for their party should be.

It's no accident that the party chose Joe Biden, as there's indeed a recognition that the Dems needed to rebuild its relationship with the working class.

Where I'd agree with you, though, is that the party (and the left generally) had become dominated by the coastal elites; I'd not argue about many, maybe most of them having lost touch with the working class, and the "left" had allowed themselves to be branded that way...Notwithstanding Bernie Sanders on the left.

I think you're entirely wrong about "despise" non-union workers, however. That's Fox or OAN talking not Sherrod Brown or heck, AOC.
Supporting workers rights to organize ain't the same as despising workers not getting those rights in their jobs.

BTW, there are little to no differences between union workers and non-union when it comes to religion, much less education. Very similar.

What I do think is anathema to the Dems (and used to be to the GOP) is racism...that's the common factor that seems to separate the MAGA crowd more than anything from other GOP and former GOP, though anti-intellectualism and anti-expertise is a big part as well...again, anti-intellectualism wasn't a factor in Buckley's GOP...nor mine.
And Bernie has how many vacation homes? His lecture is going for $100 a ticket. Manchin lives on a yacht. Klobuchar was voted meanest Senator by Capitol staffers. They are more concerned with their sinecures and destroying the Republican Party.

Your cry of racism rings hollow. Was Trump a racist the whole time he was a TV star? How did NBC not find out? Or the NAACP and Jesse Jackson. I consider anyone crying racist as not having a cogent argument. Almost like the last refuge of a scoundrel.
"I would never want to belong to a club that would have me as a member", Groucho Marx
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27086
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

get it to x wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:59 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pm
get it to x wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:10 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
I assume you meant cannot, not "can"...

What aspect do you find particularly objectionable and why?

I didn't have an issue, for instance, with the Buy American provisions in the IRA bill.

The Dems, and particularly the moderate wing looking to rebuild support among working class voters not necessarily on the coasts, are looking for ways that move the needle in working class folks' lives. Especially younger working class families with children, making it easier for household formation and having children...

They'd largely ignored these folks, as had the GOP, for several decades...at least so far as substantive policy measures (child tax credit being an exception...but now gone). Here's an opportunity to not ignore...

These are big companies who could get a $150 million plus loan, not SMB's, so setting expectations about child care, or family leave, etc are not onerous, rather they are definitely doable efficiently. Lots of very large companies do these measures, at least to some degree...but not all do...however want our dough, then take care of your employees. And yes, we need to get women back into the workforce. (BTW, the family leave thing...which doesn't appear to have been included, is very much a dad thing too when its "parental" not merely maternal...there's actually a bi-partisan effort brewing to get this sort of thing done for dads.)

No stock buybacks? Heck, makes a ton of sense to me...we've seen money flow from Washington to companies to shareholders, ignoring reinvestment much less workers...that's not the objective of this program.

I'd need to see the "excess profits" calculation, as that sounds problematic, but in principle I can see why they'd be saying they want to share in any unexpected windfall returns...I think we should be thinking that way about all sorts of government risk funding, eg tech risk, Pharma, etc...
Your premise about the Dems courting the working class would make sense 40 years ago, but they are a party now of the technocrats, bureaucrats, big business, media and the so called elites. Their other cohort is the dependent class. They are almost like a feudal party, with the gentry and the serfs. They despise non-union worker's, who in the private sector are well over 80% of the workforce. There are also some serious cultural dissimilarities like religion and education. They would prefer a lighter hand of government, which is anathema to Dems. Vaccine mandates a case in point. They were, and are, Trump voters.
get it to x,
Sherrod Brown and Joe Manchin and Jon Tester and Amy Klobuchar and a whole bunch of others, including Joe Biden, would disagree with you about what the priorities for their party should be.

It's no accident that the party chose Joe Biden, as there's indeed a recognition that the Dems needed to rebuild its relationship with the working class.

Where I'd agree with you, though, is that the party (and the left generally) had become dominated by the coastal elites; I'd not argue about many, maybe most of them having lost touch with the working class, and the "left" had allowed themselves to be branded that way...Notwithstanding Bernie Sanders on the left.

I think you're entirely wrong about "despise" non-union workers, however. That's Fox or OAN talking not Sherrod Brown or heck, AOC.
Supporting workers rights to organize ain't the same as despising workers not getting those rights in their jobs.

BTW, there are little to no differences between union workers and non-union when it comes to religion, much less education. Very similar.

What I do think is anathema to the Dems (and used to be to the GOP) is racism...that's the common factor that seems to separate the MAGA crowd more than anything from other GOP and former GOP, though anti-intellectualism and anti-expertise is a big part as well...again, anti-intellectualism wasn't a factor in Buckley's GOP...nor mine.
And Bernie has how many vacation homes? His lecture is going for $100 a ticket. Manchin lives on a yacht. Klobuchar was voted meanest Senator by Capitol staffers. They are more concerned with their sinecures and destroying the Republican Party.

Your cry of racism rings hollow. Was Trump a racist the whole time he was a TV star? How did NBC not find out? Or the NAACP and Jesse Jackson. I consider anyone crying racist as not having a cogent argument. Almost like the last refuge of a scoundrel.
:D

That's the best you got?

I responded to your absolutist diatribe with a pretty darn clear, but nuanced, explanation that the Dems need to appeal to working class voters and are making efforts to do so.

YOU needn't buy that these efforts are sincere or will actually help working class people, go ahead and bring your cynicism, but they really do need to do so if they want to win elections. So, are making efforts to do so.

Now, if we're going to be cynical, let's admit that neither the Dems nor the GOP have done right by the working class for a couple of decades, at least. Plenty of arm waving, but very little substantive. And that certainly includes the Trump 4 years. Nada.

And if you really don't see the embrace, rather than the rejection, of admittedly white supremacist and Neo-Nazi, anti-semites, etc to be characteristic of the MAGA GOP, I don't think we're operating on the same planet.

And if you really want to go down the Trump rathole again, I'll point you at the housing lawsuits and the 'park'...Trump "liked" black people who shined up to him or were famous, but his true colors were revealed numerous times.

That said, I think Trump puts on the characteristics of whatever he thinks he will benefit most from, primarily financially, but also in his grubby desire to be "accepted", to be noticed, gilt bathrooms and all.

And he tapped into the racist impulses of a big element of the electorate, typically white and less educated, who were horrified by Obama's election...what brought Trump to national political prominence was what? birtherism.
a fan
Posts: 19547
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by a fan »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:39 pm https://www.regions.com/-/media/pdfs/As ... -Cycle.pdf

For YE…..

The belief is that chips are more ubiquitous today and some of the historical cyclicality will be diminished. The $200B in spurred investment covers a lot of areas. I don’t like the United States government developing an investment thesis. Just me. There is a lot of time between here and there.
We tried the (relatively) free market....it all went overseas. How do you get domestic production without .gov intervention of some sort?

I can't figure how to do it.
get it to x
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: The Biden - Harris Era.

Post by get it to x »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 7:18 pm
get it to x wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:59 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pm
get it to x wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:10 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:02 am Ugh, this is why I can be part of the Dems even if I reject 98% of my legacy Rep party these days. (NYT daily)


Social policy through semiconductors
When the bipartisan CHIPS Act passed last year to provide $52 billion to promote chip-building in America, trade experts hailed it as the most significant investment in industrial policy in a half-century.

But new disclosures about what companies must do to get the CHIPS money — including guaranteeing child care for workers and refraining from stock buybacks — show that the Biden administration is also keen on using federal dollars to reshape corporate America.

The CHIPS Act is increasingly about more than, well, chips. To be sure, the law is meant to revive America’s semiconductor industry by funding research and manufacturing in the U.S., reducing a reliance on foreign production for critical tech components. It’s also been described as a national security measure. (It’s worth noting that lawmakers from both parties have already questioned whether the already-profitable chip industry needs such funding.)

But there are strings attached to the money:

Those seeking $150 million or more must guarantee affordable, high-quality child care for plant workers. (Some of the federal subsidies can go toward meeting the requirement.) Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said this was a way to ensure women can stay in the work force.
Companies also need to share part of any unanticipated profits with the U.S., a move that federal officials said was meant to ensure accurate financial projections.
Preference for funding will go to companies that promise not to buy back stock. The requirement is rooted in growing Democratic opposition to a financial maneuver that critics say diverts money to Wall Street investors when it could be reinvested in the company.
It’s perhaps the White House’s broadest effort yet to use policy to influence business. While the U.S. government has attached conditions to federal funding in the past — the Biden administration already imposed tougher labor standards and “Buy American” provisions on the Inflation Reduction Act — this goes further.

Such moves are unlikely to please conservatives, who have accused the White House of pursuing progressive social goals through policy when it hasn’t been able to get them through Congress. “Rube Goldberg-ing new mandates into an expensive and misguided industrial policy is no way to make social policy,” Eric Boehm writes in Reason.
I assume you meant cannot, not "can"...

What aspect do you find particularly objectionable and why?

I didn't have an issue, for instance, with the Buy American provisions in the IRA bill.

The Dems, and particularly the moderate wing looking to rebuild support among working class voters not necessarily on the coasts, are looking for ways that move the needle in working class folks' lives. Especially younger working class families with children, making it easier for household formation and having children...

They'd largely ignored these folks, as had the GOP, for several decades...at least so far as substantive policy measures (child tax credit being an exception...but now gone). Here's an opportunity to not ignore...

These are big companies who could get a $150 million plus loan, not SMB's, so setting expectations about child care, or family leave, etc are not onerous, rather they are definitely doable efficiently. Lots of very large companies do these measures, at least to some degree...but not all do...however want our dough, then take care of your employees. And yes, we need to get women back into the workforce. (BTW, the family leave thing...which doesn't appear to have been included, is very much a dad thing too when its "parental" not merely maternal...there's actually a bi-partisan effort brewing to get this sort of thing done for dads.)

No stock buybacks? Heck, makes a ton of sense to me...we've seen money flow from Washington to companies to shareholders, ignoring reinvestment much less workers...that's not the objective of this program.

I'd need to see the "excess profits" calculation, as that sounds problematic, but in principle I can see why they'd be saying they want to share in any unexpected windfall returns...I think we should be thinking that way about all sorts of government risk funding, eg tech risk, Pharma, etc...
Your premise about the Dems courting the working class would make sense 40 years ago, but they are a party now of the technocrats, bureaucrats, big business, media and the so called elites. Their other cohort is the dependent class. They are almost like a feudal party, with the gentry and the serfs. They despise non-union worker's, who in the private sector are well over 80% of the workforce. There are also some serious cultural dissimilarities like religion and education. They would prefer a lighter hand of government, which is anathema to Dems. Vaccine mandates a case in point. They were, and are, Trump voters.
get it to x,
Sherrod Brown and Joe Manchin and Jon Tester and Amy Klobuchar and a whole bunch of others, including Joe Biden, would disagree with you about what the priorities for their party should be.

It's no accident that the party chose Joe Biden, as there's indeed a recognition that the Dems needed to rebuild its relationship with the working class.

Where I'd agree with you, though, is that the party (and the left generally) had become dominated by the coastal elites; I'd not argue about many, maybe most of them having lost touch with the working class, and the "left" had allowed themselves to be branded that way...Notwithstanding Bernie Sanders on the left.

I think you're entirely wrong about "despise" non-union workers, however. That's Fox or OAN talking not Sherrod Brown or heck, AOC.
Supporting workers rights to organize ain't the same as despising workers not getting those rights in their jobs.

BTW, there are little to no differences between union workers and non-union when it comes to religion, much less education. Very similar.

What I do think is anathema to the Dems (and used to be to the GOP) is racism...that's the common factor that seems to separate the MAGA crowd more than anything from other GOP and former GOP, though anti-intellectualism and anti-expertise is a big part as well...again, anti-intellectualism wasn't a factor in Buckley's GOP...nor mine.
And Bernie has how many vacation homes? His lecture is going for $100 a ticket. Manchin lives on a yacht. Klobuchar was voted meanest Senator by Capitol staffers. They are more concerned with their sinecures and destroying the Republican Party.

Your cry of racism rings hollow. Was Trump a racist the whole time he was a TV star? How did NBC not find out? Or the NAACP and Jesse Jackson. I consider anyone crying racist as not having a cogent argument. Almost like the last refuge of a scoundrel.
:D

That's the best you got?

I responded to your absolutist diatribe with a pretty darn clear, but nuanced, explanation that the Dems need to appeal to working class voters and are making efforts to do so.

YOU needn't buy that these efforts are sincere or will actually help working class people, go ahead and bring your cynicism, but they really do need to do so if they want to win elections. So, are making efforts to do so.

Now, if we're going to be cynical, let's admit that neither the Dems nor the GOP have done right by the working class for a couple of decades, at least. Plenty of arm waving, but very little substantive. And that certainly includes the Trump 4 years. Nada.

And if you really don't see the embrace, rather than the rejection, of admittedly white supremacist and Neo-Nazi, anti-semites, etc to be characteristic of the MAGA GOP, I don't think we're operating on the same planet.

And if you really want to go down the Trump rathole again, I'll point you at the housing lawsuits and the 'park'...Trump "liked" black people who shined up to him or were famous, but his true colors were revealed numerous times.

That said, I think Trump puts on the characteristics of whatever he thinks he will benefit most from, primarily financially, but also in his grubby desire to be "accepted", to be noticed, gilt bathrooms and all.

And he tapped into the racist impulses of a big element of the electorate, typically white and less educated, who were horrified by Obama's election...what brought Trump to national political prominence was what? birtherism.
Look at the counties Trump won in Ohio and Florida. They voted for Obama at least once, maybe twice. Mahoning is a great example. What were their racist impulses? And Trump was already prominent way before Obama ran the first time. Again, you're taking the cheap way out instead of telling me why Dems as they are currently constituted would appeal to the working class.
"I would never want to belong to a club that would have me as a member", Groucho Marx
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”