Regulation - Too Much or Too Little?

[PizzaSnake]

Contmainated soil? We don't see no stinking contaminated soil.

"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency sent a letter to Norfolk Southern claiming it failed to properly dispose of contaminated soil after the train derailment in East Palestine.

According to the letter, “Five railcar tankers of vinyl chloride were intentionally breached; the vinyl chloride was diverted to an excavated trench and then burned off. Areas of contaminated soil and free liquids were observed and potentially covered and/or filled during reconstruction of the rail line including portions of the trench /burn pit that was used for the open burn off of vinyl chloride.”

3 additional chemicals discovered on East Palestine train derailment
“I think it was not in the best interest of human health and welfare and the environment to simply cover it up and keep going without at least a preliminary evaluation to determine if the level of vinyl chloride that was present in the soil was going to create a potential contamination threat to surface or groundwater,” said Dr. Julie Weatherington-Rice who has a Ph.D. in soil science and has been working for Bennett & Williams Environmental Consultants since 1986."

https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/ea ... rail-line/

But sure, the stooge lawyers and lobbysists and their "pet" experts know more than this woman.

I have a modest little proposal: if these remediation meets Norfolk Southern's standards, how about the C-suite execs and their families move to East Palestine and live on top of this mess? Forever. Let's see how long they last.

[HooDat]

I have a modest little proposal: if these remediation meets Norfolk Southern's standards, how about the C-suite execs and their families move to East Palestine and live on top of this mess? Forever. Let's see how long they last.

let them "live" where they want, but lets plant a garden and dig a well on the site - and let their families eat and drink what these a-holes have sowed.

[PizzaSnake]

I have a modest little proposal: if these remediation meets Norfolk Southern's standards, how about the C-suite execs and their families move to East Palestine and live on top of this mess? Forever. Let's see how long they last.

let them "live" where they want, but lets plant a garden and dig a well on the site - and let their families eat and drink what these a-holes have sowed.

Nope. Breathing is integral to the “shared” experience.

[HooDat]

I have a modest little proposal: if these remediation meets Norfolk Southern's standards, how about the C-suite execs and their families move to East Palestine and live on top of this mess? Forever. Let's see how long they last.

let them "live" where they want, but lets plant a garden and dig a well on the site - and let their families eat and drink what these a-holes have sowed.

Nope. Breathing is integral to the “shared” experience.

Fair - but I want to watch them eat food that was grown in that soil and drink water that came out of that ground. ...does that make me a bad person?

[Farfromgeneva]

I have a modest little proposal: if these remediation meets Norfolk Southern's standards, how about the C-suite execs and their families move to East Palestine and live on top of this mess? Forever. Let's see how long they last.

let them "live" where they want, but lets plant a garden and dig a well on the site - and let their families eat and drink what these a-holes have sowed.

Nope. Breathing is integral to the “shared” experience.

Fair - but I want to watch them eat food that was grown in that soil and drink water that came out of that ground. ...does that make me a bad person?

My kind of guy

[HooDat]

I have a modest little proposal: if these remediation meets Norfolk Southern's standards, how about the C-suite execs and their families move to East Palestine and live on top of this mess? Forever. Let's see how long they last.

let them "live" where they want, but lets plant a garden and dig a well on the site - and let their families eat and drink what these a-holes have sowed.

Nope. Breathing is integral to the “shared” experience.

Fair - but I want to watch them eat food that was grown in that soil and drink water that came out of that ground. ...does that make me a bad person?

My kind of guy

might change the way they view the "risks" involved, don't ya think

[PizzaSnake]

Around 20 out of 150? Nice. Trouble with enumeration?


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/15/clim ... icals.html

"Health and environmental concerns are mounting after the train derailment and toxic chemical fire this month in eastern Ohio, near the Pennsylvania border. According to information provided to the Environmental Protection Agency by the rail operator, Norfolk Southern, around 20 of the train’s roughly 150 cars were carrying hazardous materials. A meeting for residents about the chemical spill is planned for Wednesday evening.

Here’s a quick guide to the chemicals that people might have been exposed to in the disaster.

Vinyl chloride
Five of the cars that derailed were transporting vinyl chloride, a colorless gas with what toxicologists describe as a “mild, sweet odor.”

Vinyl chloride is used to make polyvinyl chloride, better known as PVC, which goes into plastic pipes, cable coatings and packaging materials. It has been found in the air near PVC factories and hazardous waste sites, and can leach into groundwater.

Inhaling it can cause dizziness and disorientation, according to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services. Prolonged exposure has been linked to higher rates of liver angiosarcoma, a rare form of cancer.


Last week, the authorities in Ohio decided to release and burn the vinyl chloride in the derailed cars after they were warned that the cargo might explode if they didn’t intervene. When burned, vinyl chloride decomposes into gases including hydrogen chloride and phosgene.



Hydrogen chloride has a strong, irritating odor and is corrosive to any tissue that comes into contact with it, according to the federal toxic substances registry. Phosgene smells like freshly cut hay and can cause coughing and wheezing if inhaled.

The E.P.A. has been screening homes in the affected area for vinyl chloride and hydrogen chloride. As of Tuesday, it had not detected either gas in any of them.

Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether
Another of the derailed cars was carrying ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, a clear, colorless liquid involved in the manufacture of products including varnishes, paint thinners, agricultural chemicals and industrial and household cleaners. In an experiment that exposed people to a high level of the chemical for several hours, some subjects reported irritation of the nose and eyes, headaches and vomiting.

Otherwise known as "painter killer"...


According to a document provided by Norfolk Southern to the E.P.A., which the agency posted on its website on Sunday, the status of the train car carrying ethylene glycol monobutyl ether was “unknown.”

Unknown? WTAF!!

A Norfolk Southern spokesman didn’t immediately respond to an email on Wednesday asking whether this was still the case.

Butyl acrylate
The derailment caused one car’s entire load of butyl acrylate to be “lost,” according to the document from Norfolk Southern. Butyl acrylate is a clear, colorless liquid with a strong odor that is used for making paints, caulks and adhesives. It can cause breathing difficulties and irritation of the eyes and skin, according to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health.

Ethylhexyl acrylate
A car carrying ethylhexyl acrylate was breached in the derailment, and Norfolk Southern said it was unclear how much of the product had been in the car. Ethylhexyl acrylate is used in making paints and plastics and can irritate the skin, eyes and respiratory tract.

Isobutylene
One car carrying isobutylene, a flammable gas with a petroleum-like odor, did not appear to be breached in the derailment, according to Norfolk Southern. Isobutylene is used in the production of isooctane, a component of some gasolines. Breathing it in can cause dizziness and drowsiness.

[PizzaSnake]

I have a modest little proposal: if these remediation meets Norfolk Southern's standards, how about the C-suite execs and their families move to East Palestine and live on top of this mess? Forever. Let's see how long they last.

let them "live" where they want, but lets plant a garden and dig a well on the site - and let their families eat and drink what these a-holes have sowed.

Nope. Breathing is integral to the “shared” experience.

Fair - but I want to watch them eat food that was grown in that soil and drink water that came out of that ground. ...does that make me a bad person?

Hook them up to a "smoking machine" like those used on the dogs in the tobacco company's "research." How about that?

[Brooklyn]

another Republican caused disaster:




https://assets.amuniversal.com/0ab971a0 ... a9545d.png




https://image.politicalcartoons.com/271 ... nation.png




everybody in this forum knows this is the truth

[Brooklyn]

https://twitter.com/RepBoebert/status/1 ... 6%2Fpage-2


Instead of sending hundreds of billions to Ukraine, we should be taking care of our own people here at home.

Here’s a place we could start: East Palestine, Ohio.



I do agree with her that we must not spend money in Ukraine as that crisis has gone on for over 1,000 years and will never be solved by outsiders. However, she errs by failing to point out that it is repukeblicon de-regulation that caused that disaster in East Palestine, Ohio ~ instead of spending billions in cleanup, let's PREVENT these disasters. For some reason the people in that state keep voting for the pukies and keep screwing themselves. Gov De Wine says the rail industry will pay for the damages. Anybody wanna bet?

[dislaxxic]

What It Takes for an E-Bike Battery to Explode

New York City is seeing an alarming number of battery fires, spiking from 22 in 2020 to 104 in 2021 to 216 by the end of last year. They killed six people last year, up from four in 2021. With its high concentration of delivery workers and other people using bikes to get around, New York has had more of these fires than anywhere else in the country, but the fires are increasingly a problem in many other cities, too. A growing number of fire departments are warning of the risks of batteries that are damaged or modified, or that were not built to meet safety standards.

Only some lithium-ion batteries pose a danger. Undamaged, unmodified batteries that meet certification standards set by UL Solutions—such as the ones in Teslas and cellphones and those used by bike-share programs like Citi Bike in New York—are widely regarded as safe. Citi Bike has thousands of e-bikes, and the New York City Fire Department says it hasn’t had any fire issues with those bikes. If you bought an e-bike from a reputable retailer and your battery has the UL marking, you can breathe easy.

The problem is that as the popularity of e-bikes soars, more and more people are relying on batteries without protections. They’re doing it for good reason, many of them say. But those batteries can still lead to disaster.

..

[Brooklyn]

Biden EPA to take over cleanup of toxic Ohio derailment disaster


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/biden ... ccfeaf437f



The Environmental Protection Agency will take control of the response to the Ohio train derailment disaster and order rail company Norfolk Southern to clean up the contamination, the agency said Tuesday, the Biden administration’s strongest response yet to the crisis.

Rather than clean up the toxic wreck voluntarily, as it has done so far, Norfolk Southern will be required to do so under a plan approved by the EPA, which will also take over certain aspects of the response from Ohio. Norfolk Southern will also have to pay the remediation costs — as well as pay for cleaning services that the agency will offer to residents and businesses, participate in public meetings and share information publicly, according to the EPA.

The EPA’s step comes 18 days after the Feb. 3 train crash, which released toxic chemicals and fumes over a wide area. In the two weeks since evacuated residents were allowed to return to their homes, national attention on East Palestine has intensified, as many residents remain angry and fearful about potential contamination and health effects.

The plans, set to be announced by EPA Administrator Michael Regan in East Palestine on Tuesday afternoon, will give the federal government oversight of the massive cleanup through a legally binding order. Regan’s visit to East Palestine, his second in a week, comes amid pressure on the federal government from some lawmakers and residents to step up its response.

more ...




There we go again. Another Republican state gets bailed out by the feds. All the talk about "freedom" from government, all the talk about liberty and deregulation and non-intervention all out the window. But this is typical. Precisely what I expected from the hypocrites in the right wing.

[NattyBohChamps04]

What It Takes for an E-Bike Battery to Explode

If you bought an e-bike from a reputable retailer and your battery has the UL marking, you can breathe easy.

The problem is that as the popularity of e-bikes soars, more and more people are relying on batteries without protections. They’re doing it for good reason, many of them say. But those batteries can still lead to disaster.

..

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=e-bike&crid= ... _sb_noss_2

Let's see, should we go with JSILAKOI, KEQJSK, Hiboy, BaFang, ANCHEER, HAOQI, or BFISPORT?

Checking out their seller profiles, every single company on the first page is based in China.

Sure the Chinese can make high quality stuff... if you force them to. I know Amazon isn't doing anything about it, just requiring business insurance from sellers nowadays.

[Brooklyn]

tRump brilliance set it all up:




https://images.dailykos.com/images/1164 ... ionWEB.jpg



funny how so many far right delusionals blame Biden for the crap tRump caused

[jhu72]

What It Takes for an E-Bike Battery to Explode

New York City is seeing an alarming number of battery fires, spiking from 22 in 2020 to 104 in 2021 to 216 by the end of last year. They killed six people last year, up from four in 2021. With its high concentration of delivery workers and other people using bikes to get around, New York has had more of these fires than anywhere else in the country, but the fires are increasingly a problem in many other cities, too. A growing number of fire departments are warning of the risks of batteries that are damaged or modified, or that were not built to meet safety standards.

Only some lithium-ion batteries pose a danger. Undamaged, unmodified batteries that meet certification standards set by UL Solutions—such as the ones in Teslas and cellphones and those used by bike-share programs like Citi Bike in New York—are widely regarded as safe. Citi Bike has thousands of e-bikes, and the New York City Fire Department says it hasn’t had any fire issues with those bikes. If you bought an e-bike from a reputable retailer and your battery has the UL marking, you can breathe easy.

The problem is that as the popularity of e-bikes soars, more and more people are relying on batteries without protections. They’re doing it for good reason, many of them say. But those batteries can still lead to disaster.

..

... I have been doing a lot of reading on Lithium batteries lately. The safety issues, the number of explosions nationwide surprises the hell out of me. I am not so convinced about the UL marking being a proxy for safety with these batteries. I had been thinking of going to Lithium batteries for home power short term emergency backup as I upgrade my system, but the explosions concern me. Decided to stick with lead-acid AGM marine batteries. They are reliable, have a similar size and capacity and the automatic charging technology today makes them very long lived in my application. Also a huge cost advantage over Lithium.

[HooDat]

I am not so convinced about the UL marking being a proxy for safety

ya don't say?....

Over our lifetimes we have watched the experts get replaced by the credentialed - the problem is there is a difference between the two..... And the difference is becoming more apparent every time I turn on the news....

[Typical Lax Dad]

I am not so convinced about the UL marking being a proxy for safety

ya don't say?....

Over our lifetimes we have watched the experts get replaced by the credentialed - the problem is there is a difference between the two..... And the difference is becoming more apparent every time I turn on the news....

Why do you believe experts are being replaced by "credentialed" and how do we find experts that are "credentialed"? Is there no such thing as credentialed experts? My guess is nobody wants them..... that is probably the problem.

[HooDat]

I am not so convinced about the UL marking being a proxy for safety

ya don't say?....

Over our lifetimes we have watched the experts get replaced by the credentialed - the problem is there is a difference between the two..... And the difference is becoming more apparent every time I turn on the news....

Why do you believe experts are being replaced by "credentialed" and how do we find experts that are "credentialed"? Is there no such thing as credentialed experts? My guess is nobody wants them..... that is probably the problem.

By credentialed, I mean people who have all the right degrees from all the right institutions but are a product of working the systems rather than learning the material. These people know how to play the game, write a report and build to code, but they don't actually understand the subjects in which they are supposed to be experts. Of course there are credentialed experts, esp since the credentialing institutions do their best to make sure that self-taught experts are ignored. But there are FAR more people with the credentials than actually know what the heck they are doing. This is in science, education, medicine, finance, engineering, wildlife management - you name it.

[PizzaSnake]

I am not so convinced about the UL marking being a proxy for safety

ya don't say?....

Over our lifetimes we have watched the experts get replaced by the credentialed - the problem is there is a difference between the two..... And the difference is becoming more apparent every time I turn on the news....

Why do you believe experts are being replaced by "credentialed" and how do we find experts that are "credentialed"? Is there no such thing as credentialed experts? My guess is nobody wants them..... that is probably the problem.

I’ll take a PE over a non-PE engineer any day. However, if the non-PE had demonstrated expertise, I might nake an exception.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I am not so convinced about the UL marking being a proxy for safety

ya don't say?....

Over our lifetimes we have watched the experts get replaced by the credentialed - the problem is there is a difference between the two..... And the difference is becoming more apparent every time I turn on the news....

Why do you believe experts are being replaced by "credentialed" and how do we find experts that are "credentialed"? Is there no such thing as credentialed experts? My guess is nobody wants them..... that is probably the problem.

By credentialed, I mean people who have all the right degrees from all the right institutions but are a product of working the systems rather than learning the material. These people know how to play the game, write a report and build to code, but they don't actually understand the subjects in which they are supposed to be experts. Of course there are credentialed experts, esp since the credentialing institutions do their best to make sure that self-taught experts are ignored. But there are FAR more people with the credentials than actually know what the heck they are doing. This is in science, education, medicine, finance, engineering, wildlife management - you name it.

There are more qualified people that haven’t gone through that process than those that have and are now being displaced?