Johns Hopkins 2023

[flalax22]

It was pretty obvious he was one of our best players in the Covid shortened year. That's all I need to know and no one at the Cordish center gets or deserves a pass on this one.

Sorry - I missed this one first time around - so this means that as long as you are a great lacrosse player - no standards of rules or behavior apply? So star mid-fielder Blauman can go around stabbing people and he gets a pass? Boys will be boys? This is absurd.

If you don’t think PM standard of conduct for players since his arrival has been inconsistent you have ZERO idea of what’s gone on there. While I’m not there everyday I’ve talked to enough people involved with the program and those that are that the shifting conduct expectations has been an issue.

My "all I need to know" comment referred to the entirety of my statement before that. You are cherry picking. The fact that UMD took him in speaks volumes. They would not have done that with any kind of serious issue.
Anyway, given what we know and have seen so far, it's hard to dismiss the volume of negative info that's appearing on our board.

To be clear my comment was directed toward 51

[51percentcorn]

Consistency of treatment was a hallmark issue of Petro's BTW - it is virtually an issue with every team - how do you treat the stars vs the back-ups. I was standing right next to a group of Hopkins' players' dads for a fall scrimmage when a then current star who was injured left to go to a family event and Petro called out "I Love you Schmidlap" Hopkins dad retort "If my kid left a scrimmage early he wouldn't see the field the entire year" SO that stuff happens all the time - the issue was not exonerating Milliman for any preferential or non preferential treatment the issue is a statement by a fan (use the term loosely) that clearly implies that lacrosse prowess exceeds all other considerations.

Believe what you want. PM wanted to eval Petros recruits not be handcuffed. Lars did the exact same thing at UVA

Lots of space between this statement and your prior one on the topic. Sort of like when you initally said McManus was told to "Hit the Road" when nothing could be further from the truth.
BTW - almost seems like Lars did the right thing. We are of course conveniently ignoring the fact that the circumstances could not have been more different. In 2016 - close to the pinnacle of early recruiting - UVA probably had at least 3 recruiting classes - maybe even 4 - with kids listed on it so Lars was probably well justified to tell high school freshmen and others that things could be different with a new coach in 2 or 3 years. Milliman had one class already locked in and one class with verbals. He couldn't meet with them in person - how was he going to evaluate them? YOU tube highlight videos? I could see him sending a letter or having a phone conversation introducing himself and saying when circumstances allow he would like to meet them and see where things fit in with his program. But again there was NO PLAN B and it was easy to see one was not coming around the corner. So if he did take a hard line and self create the issue - then that's a problem. Much more logical to assume that what happened was what happens virtually any time a coach leaves - others pick at their recruits - funny how all the ones that left were the 5*s and the 4*s. I guess Sam Teachout wasn't offended. Sorry you're incredible insider access continues to show an agenda and resembles swiss cheese at times.

[HopFan16]

The way I understand it is that the player in question essentially kicked himself off the team. Made it clear he didn't really want to be there anymore and wasn't going to buy in. Not really sure what you can do with that as a new coach except to give him what he wants. It was going to be an ongoing problem. You don't really see or hear about any of his former teammates standing up for him. Probably a reason for that. Sag A loses again.

[Sagittarius A*]

It was pretty obvious he was one of our best players in the Covid shortened year. That's all I need to know and no one at the Cordish center gets or deserves a pass on this one.

Sorry - I missed this one first time around - so this means that as long as you are a great lacrosse player - no standards of rules or behavior apply? So star mid-fielder Blauman can go around stabbing people and he gets a pass? Boys will be boys? This is absurd.

If you don’t think PM standard of conduct for players since his arrival has been inconsistent you have ZERO idea of what’s gone on there. While I’m not there everyday I’ve talked to enough people involved with the program and those that are that the shifting conduct expectations has been an issue.

My "all I need to know" comment referred to the entirety of my statement before that. You are cherry picking. The fact that UMD took him in speaks volumes. They would not have done that with any kind of serious issue.
Anyway, given what we know and have seen so far, it's hard to dismiss the volume of negative info that's appearing on our board.

To be clear my comment was directed toward 51

My comment was also directed at 51, sorry about the confusion.
Frankly, PM just plain scares me. I think we would have been much better off with Marr concerning recruits, transfers, and the roster overall.
The players also wanted Marr. If you go out on a limb with a hire, you better have results to show for it and so far they've been middling ~.500 or worse. The rest of the season projects to be about the same. I guess we'll see but it's hard to be optimistic at this point.

[51percentcorn]

So what exactly was I cherry picking? Most of your prior statements - He scored goals against Hopkins/He won a Championship /He was one of Hopkins better offensive players all speak to his lacrosse ability and they are true statements (rare for you). The only one is this very nebulous quote attributed to Kessenich which means nothing. So all you know is he is a good lacrosse player and you remained convinced Marr would have kept him which may not be true AT ALL and you have NO CLUE what would have happened. So if the player in question was the Roland Park Ripper Marr would have kept him? Absurd juvenile statements once again.

[HopFan16]

I think we would have been much better off with Marr concerning recruits, transfers, and the roster overall.

What's this based on? Is it their losing record despite getting to play in one of the worst conference in D1? Or perhaps it's the program's history of behavioral issues? Hey, whatever happened to Tehoka Nanticoke? Where'd TD Ierlan end up?

Imagine if we "chased off" two players of that caliber. Would make Murphy look like Jimmy McGillicuddy.

BTW, let's assume for a moment that PM was wildly unjustified in letting the kid go (that's not the case, but we can pretend). Where exactly is the crisis? It's not like he lost Connor Shellenberger or Joe Robertson. Murphy is a very good spot-up shooter who last year was the product of a historically great Maryland offense. He doesn't facilitate much or create his own shot. He wouldn't have helped last week vs. Loyola seeing as he himself had 0 pts on 5 shots with 2 turnovers when Maryland played them. He qualifies as a "nice to have" rather than a "need," IMO. It happens. We move on. Or, some of us do at least.

[lilax]

I think we would have been much better off with Marr concerning recruits, transfers, and the roster overall.

Marr's recruiting earned him a 17-10 loss to Binghamton last year.

Since the Final Four run, Albany has gone 20-29 with 3 losses to a Milliman-recruited Cornell team.

[flalax22]

It was pretty obvious he was one of our best players in the Covid shortened year. That's all I need to know and no one at the Cordish center gets or deserves a pass on this one.

Sorry - I missed this one first time around - so this means that as long as you are a great lacrosse player - no standards of rules or behavior apply? So star mid-fielder Blauman can go around stabbing people and he gets a pass? Boys will be boys? This is absurd.

If you don’t think PM standard of conduct for players since his arrival has been inconsistent you have ZERO idea of what’s gone on there. While I’m not there everyday I’ve talked to enough people involved with the program and those that are that the shifting conduct expectations has been an issue.

My "all I need to know" comment referred to the entirety of my statement before that. You are cherry picking. The fact that UMD took him in speaks volumes. They would not have done that with any kind of serious issue.
Anyway, given what we know and have seen so far, it's hard to dismiss the volume of negative info that's appearing on our board.

To be clear my comment was directed toward 51

My comment was also directed at 51, sorry about the confusion.
Frankly, PM just plain scares me. I think we would have been much better off with Marr concerning recruits, transfers, and the roster overall.

To be fair I’m not going to say he scares me but I do believe he deserves criticism for inconsistent code of conduct standards and when he screws up it’s fair to comment. Hiring John Grant Jr was a major screw up. Relieving him of his duties mid season was a major screw up. He should wear it. But let’s be honest if he’s wearing it it’s here on a message board from fans of the team. Doesn’t really impact his life one way or the other.

I do think the team was poised to turn the corner this year. I’m not sure they are going to with all the injuries they have had. But it’s Hopkins. Next Man Up

[Formerhound]

I just love Hopkins fans. 166 pages here. Four times more than any other team. The love for the program is amazing. Problem is that you guys live in the glory of yesteryear and while you want the team to win many of you stick your heads in the sand and refuse to look at reality.
Reality #1: Millman won at Cornell with Jeff Teat in an offense designed specifically for one of the games greatest all time players. When faced with Teat being faceguarded in the Semi Finals Millman had zero answers.
Reality #2: Millman lost many recruits that de committed when Hopkins got rid of Petro and went to him. I know kids who recommitted. Many did so because of Millman’s reputation as a hard ass. Some did sue to his reputation for not allowing middies to do much other than get the ball to X.
Reality #3: of the recruits in the sophomore class only Callahan, a kid who didn’t commit until the summer of COVID, AFTER his Junior year and after most schools had their FOGO. Late bloomer who had tons of interest from other schools. Went to Hopkins because of Academics and Lax.
Reality #4: Hopkins is no longer the Hopkins of old to recruits. They haven’t won anything in years. School has no other D1 programs. Kids want to attend other sports events at school. OSU, Michigan, UVA, GT, MD, Richmond, etc…all have much more to offer a student besides academics. When Hopkins was winning National Championships kids wanted to go there for a chance to win one. Now, kids don’t have a clue what Hopkins was and don’t care.
Reality #5: Lax is a wealthy white kid sport. Rich parents see an opportunity to get their kid into an Ivy League school through Lax. They are willing to pay full boat for that Ivy education. Smart kids who used to see Hopkins as a great fit academically and lax wise now see the Ivy’s as a much better fit. This is reflected by the strength of the Ivy programs of late and the lack thereof at Hopkins.
Reality #6: Millman needs to learn how to recruit in todays world of privileged kids. Toomey at Loyola seems to always find diamonds in the rough. He knows how to talk to kids and their parents. I was one of them. The parents and kids I’ve talked to just don’t like Millman. They guys on the team don’t like him as a whole. He comes off like a prick. Very similar to Myers at OSU. Screamers.
From an outsider who played against Hopkins for four years and remembers what it was like back then. Take it as you wish.

[wgdsr]

am already wistful for the days when hopkins was 2 and oh and bombs weren't going off everywhere.

[HopFan16]

Reality #1: Millman won at Cornell with Jeff Teat in an offense designed specifically for one of the games greatest all time players. When faced with Teat being faceguarded in the Semi Finals Millman had zero answers.

They WON the Ivy tournament and beat Yale 14-8 and Teat had 6 pts while getting faceguarded. What a terrible coaching job to win those games!

Reality #2: Millman lost many recruits that de committed when Hopkins got rid of Petro and went to him. I know kids who recommitted. Many did so because of Millman’s reputation as a hard ass. Some did sue to his reputation for not allowing middies to do much other than get the ball to X.

Donville? Fletcher? Dowiak? McCulloch? They combined for 103 goals out of the midfield in 2018. Pretty good for just playing it through X. Freshman Matt Collison looks ok dodging from up top, no? PM has gotten a lot more production out of the midfield than Petro did in his last two years. Go check the stats if you don't believe me. The positional designations are also increasingly meaningless.

Reality #3: of the recruits in the sophomore class only Callahan, a kid who didn’t commit until the summer of COVID, AFTER his Junior year and after most schools had their FOGO. Late bloomer who had tons of interest from other schools. Went to Hopkins because of Academics and Lax.

Is this a knock on Milliman? I don't really understand the point here. This seems like a good thing.

Reality #4: Hopkins is no longer the Hopkins of old to recruits. They haven’t won anything in years. School has no other D1 programs. Kids want to attend other sports events at school. OSU, Michigan, UVA, GT, MD, Richmond, etc…all have much more to offer a student besides academics. When Hopkins was winning National Championships kids wanted to go there for a chance to win one. Now, kids don’t have a clue what Hopkins was and don’t care.

This is well understood and has been discussed here at length for years but I love how you're just now parachuting in acting like you're the first person to bring it up.

Reality #5: Lax is a wealthy white kid sport. Rich parents see an opportunity to get their kid into an Ivy League school through Lax. They are willing to pay full boat for that Ivy education. Smart kids who used to see Hopkins as a great fit academically and lax wise now see the Ivy’s as a much better fit. This is reflected by the strength of the Ivy programs of late and the lack thereof at Hopkins.

Narrow thinking colored heavily by recency bias, IMO. It wasn't that long ago that the Ivy League only had one team in the tournament. These things tend to be cyclical. The conference is on a good run right now. It won't last forever. Penn still hasn't made a Final Four since the 80s. BTW all these kids who are part of Princeton and Cornell's recent Final Four teams all committed when those two teams were largely irrelevant. Princeton had achieved absolutely nothing in the decade after Tierney left and I don't think I need to remind you about Kerwick's tenure at Cornell. And yet they were still able to get some good players. Curious. PS they can't offer athletic scholarships and there's a reason many of their best coaches end up bolting from the conference.

[Sagittarius A*]

I just love Hopkins fans. 166 pages here. Four times more than any other team. The love for the program is amazing. Problem is that you guys live in the glory of yesteryear and while you want the team to win many of you stick your heads in the sand and refuse to look at reality.
Reality #1: Millman won at Cornell with Jeff Teat in an offense designed specifically for one of the games greatest all time players. When faced with Teat being faceguarded in the Semi Finals Millman had zero answers.
Reality #2: Millman lost many recruits that de committed when Hopkins got rid of Petro and went to him. I know kids who recommitted. Many did so because of Millman’s reputation as a hard ass. Some did sue to his reputation for not allowing middies to do much other than get the ball to X.
Reality #3: of the recruits in the sophomore class only Callahan, a kid who didn’t commit until the summer of COVID, AFTER his Junior year and after most schools had their FOGO. Late bloomer who had tons of interest from other schools. Went to Hopkins because of Academics and Lax.
Reality #4: Hopkins is no longer the Hopkins of old to recruits. They haven’t won anything in years. School has no other D1 programs. Kids want to attend other sports events at school. OSU, Michigan, UVA, GT, MD, Richmond, etc…all have much more to offer a student besides academics. When Hopkins was winning National Championships kids wanted to go there for a chance to win one. Now, kids don’t have a clue what Hopkins was and don’t care.
Reality #5: Lax is a wealthy white kid sport. Rich parents see an opportunity to get their kid into an Ivy League school through Lax. They are willing to pay full boat for that Ivy education. Smart kids who used to see Hopkins as a great fit academically and lax wise now see the Ivy’s as a much better fit. This is reflected by the strength of the Ivy programs of late and the lack thereof at Hopkins.
Reality #6: Millman needs to learn how to recruit in todays world of privileged kids. Toomey at Loyola seems to always find diamonds in the rough. He knows how to talk to kids and their parents. I was one of them. The parents and kids I’ve talked to just don’t like Millman. They guys on the team don’t like him as a whole. He comes off like a prick. Very similar to Myers at OSU. Screamers.
From an outsider who played against Hopkins for four years and remembers what it was like back then. Take it as you wish.

Thank you so much for this post. It's a harsh reality post for many on this board. But it definitely confirms what many Hop fans on this board have been thinking.

[primitiveskills]

Final thought on the idea that Milliman "ran off" recruits. The contention seems to be that he wanted to "evaluate" Petro's recruits and communicated that to all the recruits. Here's the issue, though. Milliman was the head coach at Cornell at the time he was hired. The likelihood that he (or Cornell staff) hadn't evaluated Petro's recruits as part of Cornell's recruiting process is zero. All of those guys were known entities to Milliman. Were there 1 or 2 that he believed would be unlikely to see the field under his system? For sure, and this would have been communicated to those recruits; it's the right thing to do. But that he communicated to all recruits that they needed to be re-evaluated, thereby pissing off guys that he knew and liked from the Cornell recruiting process, defies credibility.

Murphy is a different story. Guys transfer after coaching changes all the time in every sport. For various reasons. It happened. Life goes on. What seems clear is that a team that collectively likes playing for JHU and with/ for one another has formed. That's what you want. Maybe this has happened despite Milliman, but it seems more likely that he and his staff had some part of this.

[OCanada]

Final thought on the idea that Milliman "ran off" recruits. The contention seems to be that he wanted to "evaluate" Petro's recruits and communicated that to all the recruits. Here's the issue, though. Milliman was the head coach at Cornell at the time he was hired. The likelihood that he (or Cornell staff) hadn't evaluated Petro's recruits as part of Cornell's recruiting process is zero. All of those guys were known entities to Milliman. Were there 1 or 2 that he believed would be unlikely to see the field under his system? For sure, and this would have been communicated to those recruits; it's the right thing to do. But that he communicated to all recruits that they needed to be re-evaluated, thereby pissing off guys that he knew and liked from the Cornell recruiting process, defies credibility.”

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@. My reply

Not at all. Subjectivity treated as fact is “no way to govern a country” there was more likely minimal overlap. Some coaches don’t want some players. Some players don’t want certain schools or coaches. Some kids want the big time athletic experience. Some kids don’t want inner city schools, some kids to be away from home some don’t. Dome kids hsve already let it be known whete they want to go or who they want yo play for. PM is not yet high on that list. He did not have close ties to the Cornell lax community and certsinly does not have it at Hopkins. Maybe over time. Neither PM nor the ex OC are known for great social skills. Cornell now has a coach that does. A CNY guy with a big presence once commented he has never seen PM field a team made up of people he was responsible for recruiting. He is a delegator.

The previous coach was having difficulty getting players he wanted. It was recognized years ago as a problem. They reached out to the community for feedback and advice. Tgere were no easy answers. The freshman class this year has playets that are at Hopkins bcs of former players and alums. Hopkins has some great things to offer but some very significant hurdles as well

Jeff Teat was not at Cornell bcs of PM

[Farfromgeneva]

I don't know the details of his circumstances

then shut up

If that was a criteria the page total in this thread and others would be reduced

You went there!

[Farfromgeneva]

If you don't know the details - then how are you assessing the fact that the current staff acted irrationally? Quint? I think it has been pretty well established that he is not the oracle of college lacrosse. AND - the statement "Hopkins didn't want him" is in and of itself - accurate. That statement passes no judgment on the justification for the decision. Maybe just maybe they acted in a completely rational manner and Maryland chose a different path after a year went by. And I am not saying anything bad about Maryland. People deserve second chances and its worked out well for him - certainly lacrosse wise.

It was pretty obvious he was one of our best players in the Covid shortened year.

Exactly. So let's recap. Milliman takes the job in the middle of April '20 at pretty much the height of a global pandemic. He can't meet with his team - he almost can't travel from New York to Baltimore for a while. He has to hire assistants - he has a million administrative details and he has to worry about the class of 20/21 and any players that want to depart from the current team. So among his first two action items is to contact the next class of recruits and basically kick them to the curb without ANY Plan B - i.e. everyone else is committed and there is no late Spring Summer lacrosse circuit (so he creates for himself this somewhat lost sophomore class) and then dismiss arguably the team's best offensive player that he could have for next 4 years for a supposedly minor transgression for which if the characterization was accurate, he would not be dismissed from the school according to the honor code. Sounds like the Chewbacca Defense to me.

If I was driving back and forth from Atlanta to Binghamton NY every few weeks first half of 20 to deal with a injured and ultimately dying mother Milliman could’ve gotten to BMore.

Not opining on the rest just that aspect.

[Ruffled_Feathers]

Odd knit to pick. Like you're not wrong but what would have actually been the point in the middle of 2020? No one you potentially needed to see or talk to in this situation was actually "in Baltimore" and none of us were really supposed to be "accepting visitors".

[Ruffled_Feathers]

am already wistful for the days when hopkins was 2 and oh and bombs weren't going off everywhere.

What bombs? It is just the same usual stooges grinding their axes again plus a Loyola fan or two shoveling sh*t and telling most of us things we already know and accept. The rest of us are actually worried about getting the top half of the offensive depth chart back healthy.

Gonna miss the game this week due to another obligation but hopefully the fellas can get back on the right track. Anybody know if they've got some new Cascades in or are we ride or die with the black lids and unis for a bit longer?

[10stone5]

Formerhound
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:34 pm

Re: Johns Hopkins 2023

Post by Formerhound » Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:10 am

Reality #6: Millman needs to learn how to recruit in todays world of privileged kids. Toomey at Loyola seems to always find diamonds in the rough. He knows how to talk to kids and their parents. I was one of them. The parents and kids I’ve talked to just don’t like Millman. They guys on the team don’t like him as a whole. He comes off like a prick.

Very similar to Myers at OSU. Screamers.

Myers got Jack Myers - a leading Player of the Year contender.
Myers got a leading Canuck box/field player to re-commit to OSU for next year (much crying on my part).
He's been getting transfers in.

Screamer or no, he's getting the talent in.

[Farfromgeneva]

Final thought on the idea that Milliman "ran off" recruits. The contention seems to be that he wanted to "evaluate" Petro's recruits and communicated that to all the recruits. Here's the issue, though. Milliman was the head coach at Cornell at the time he was hired. The likelihood that he (or Cornell staff) hadn't evaluated Petro's recruits as part of Cornell's recruiting process is zero. All of those guys were known entities to Milliman. Were there 1 or 2 that he believed would be unlikely to see the field under his system? For sure, and this would have been communicated to those recruits; it's the right thing to do. But that he communicated to all recruits that they needed to be re-evaluated, thereby pissing off guys that he knew and liked from the Cornell recruiting process, defies credibility.”

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@. My reply

Not at all. Subjectivity treated as fact is “no way to govern a country” there was more likely minimal overlap. Some coaches don’t want some players. Some players don’t want certain schools or coaches. Some kids want the big time athletic experience. Some kids don’t want inner city schools, some kids to be away from home some don’t. Dome kids hsve already let it be known whete they want to go or who they want yo play for. PM is not yet high on that list. He did not have close ties to the Cornell lax community and certsinly does not have it at Hopkins. Maybe over time. Neither PM nor the ex OC are known for great social skills. Cornell now has a coach that does. A CNY guy with a big presence once commented he has never seen PM field a team made up of people he was responsible for recruiting. He is a delegator.

The previous coach was having difficulty getting players he wanted. It was recognized years ago as a problem. They reached out to the community for feedback and advice. Tgere were no easy answers. The freshman class this year has playets that are at Hopkins bcs of former players and alums. Hopkins has some great things to offer but some very significant hurdles as well

Jeff Teat was not at Cornell bcs of PM

Kerwick may have sucked at Xs and Os but he’s well known to be extremely likeable as a person and excellent recruiter. Going back to the days he and Rock Sowell were helping DJU build up GTown. He got a lot of kids to Bart in his run there, half just transferred, typically “up”.

Does CNY guy = Messere or Archer? I’m sure you won’t tell but just first two thoughts along w Chuck Wilbur.