All Things Russia & Ukraine

[DocBarrister]

I voted for Carter because like many 19 year old men I was more liberal than I am now. Looking back on it I would still have voted for Carter. Ford got in when Nixon and Agnew were basically ousted by the intelligence community in a soft coup. Yes, Nixon was flawed and paranoid, and that was his undoing. In reality, it was Mark Felt's revenge for being passed over for FBI Director in favor of L. Patrick Gray. Ford had strong ties to the intel community as a congressman.

Nixon taped himself committing the crimes that got him - no help needed from the Deep State.

Gerald Ford rightfully got shown the door for pardoning him.

I think we could debate the latter point's "rightfully" but it indeed worked against him.

I think there was also a general rejection of the corruption that more and more people realized had been long festering in the Nixon White House...and Carter wasn't a McGovern.

I think it's important to remember, albeit wistfully, that the GOP leadership actually pushed Nixon to resign and go without further turmoil and divisiveness; in that context, the pardon was intended for the country to move on from that era, peacefully.

And yes, the tapes were the final straw of embarrassment, proving the corruption beyond a doubt.

I'm cool with that...also cool with voters needing to give the other party a chance at the White House.

Congressional Republicans stuck with Nixon almost to the end, but hearing Nixon order obstruction on tape went one step too far. Seems almost quaint today.

Ford’s pardon of Nixon was defended by more than a few historians for decades. But then Trump came along and changed the perspective. Now many believe that Nixon serving time in prison might have prevented (or at least discouraged) much of the worst violations of law committed by Trump and his cronies.

DocBarrister

It might stop a more garden variety ne’er-do-well, but Trump’s a sociopath. He’s always operated under the guise that he’ll never get caught best case, or have attorneys slow roll things until you tire and go away.

True, but that “sociopath” might end up in a Georgia state penitentiary.

I’m hopin’ they still have the chain gangs down there for 45.

DocBarrister

[LandM]

Got bored getting ready to hit the tin can to Telluride. I absolutely love traveling this country. No matter color of skin, faith or belief, people are supper great. Gonna miss the beach but the Rockies are a calling - some of you out here need to explore more . It is a beautiful country full of wonderful people, Need a Miracle on Ice story right about now IMHO.

Hey Pizza, what tube and what depth did you go out at? Some are trained to create havoc, others trained to clean up the mess. Good to know you were a nanny. BTW, I also hate ring knockers. Far, with all of your wisdom and connections, surprised you were unfamiliar with that term. It would be great if one or both of you could help me find my ring - only been since 1984!

Natty - not saying my relatives were a role model BUT I wish I had a Button signed autograph

AFan - south would have never won the Civil War. South had way better generals and way better military tactics but when competing against a military industrial complex against a bunch of dingies boating out of a harbor in dark to sell bales of cotton to the French and English????

On topic. We have had IMHO GB's on the ground before this all started. They are doing what the best force in the world does, train and advise. Ain't no politician gonna tell you we are in country. KUDOS to Biden for showing his face. Probably a QRF composed of Delta, SEAL, CCT, and PJ's either at the border in Poland or in country. Unfortunately, does not matter about tanks, jets, money, eventually a SF person is gonna come home in a flag draped body bag. ALL you cheerleaders out here - rah/rah/sheeshcumbah are then gonna say, we need to get out of there. No loss of American life. At that point, the guys who have invested blood, sweat and tears will not want to come home. In it to win it. You sent them there, finish the job. You all tough guys crack me up. I keep saying this, go do it. I would love to see DocB jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Get invested. Cheerleaders are just that.

[Farfromgeneva]

I voted for Carter because like many 19 year old men I was more liberal than I am now. Looking back on it I would still have voted for Carter. Ford got in when Nixon and Agnew were basically ousted by the intelligence community in a soft coup. Yes, Nixon was flawed and paranoid, and that was his undoing. In reality, it was Mark Felt's revenge for being passed over for FBI Director in favor of L. Patrick Gray. Ford had strong ties to the intel community as a congressman.

Nixon taped himself committing the crimes that got him - no help needed from the Deep State.

Gerald Ford rightfully got shown the door for pardoning him.

I think we could debate the latter point's "rightfully" but it indeed worked against him.

I think there was also a general rejection of the corruption that more and more people realized had been long festering in the Nixon White House...and Carter wasn't a McGovern.

I think it's important to remember, albeit wistfully, that the GOP leadership actually pushed Nixon to resign and go without further turmoil and divisiveness; in that context, the pardon was intended for the country to move on from that era, peacefully.

And yes, the tapes were the final straw of embarrassment, proving the corruption beyond a doubt.

I'm cool with that...also cool with voters needing to give the other party a chance at the White House.

Congressional Republicans stuck with Nixon almost to the end, but hearing Nixon order obstruction on tape went one step too far. Seems almost quaint today.

Ford’s pardon of Nixon was defended by more than a few historians for decades. But then Trump came along and changed the perspective. Now many believe that Nixon serving time in prison might have prevented (or at least discouraged) much of the worst violations of law committed by Trump and his cronies.

DocBarrister

It might stop a more garden variety ne’er-do-well, but Trump’s a sociopath. He’s always operated under the guise that he’ll never get caught best case, or have attorneys slow roll things until you tire and go away.

True, but that “sociopath” might end up in a Georgia state penitentiary.

I’m hopin’ they still have the chain gangs down there for 45.

DocBarrister

They don’t but you’d prefer his yard mates not to be chained I’m pretty sure.

[Farfromgeneva]

Got bored getting ready to hit the tin can to Telluride. I absolutely love traveling this country. No matter color of skin, faith or belief, people are supper great. Gonna miss the beach but the Rockies are a calling - some of you out here need to explore more . It is a beautiful country full of wonderful people, Need a Miracle on Ice story right about now IMHO.

Hey Pizza, what tube and what depth did you go out at? Some are trained to create havoc, others trained to clean up the mess. Good to know you were a nanny. BTW, I also hate ring knockers. Far, with all of your wisdom and connections, surprised you were unfamiliar with that term. It would be great if one or both of you could help me find my ring - only been since 1984!

Natty - not saying my relatives were a role model BUT I wish I had a Button signed autograph

AFan - south would have never won the Civil War. South had way better generals and way better military tactics but when competing against a military industrial complex against a bunch of dingies boating out of a harbor in dark to sell bales of cotton to the French and English????

On topic. We have had IMHO GB's on the ground before this all started. They are doing what the best force in the world does, train and advise. Ain't no politician gonna tell you we are in country. KUDOS to Biden for showing his face. Probably a QRF composed of Delta, SEAL, CCT, and PJ's either at the border in Poland or in country. Unfortunately, does not matter about tanks, jets, money, eventually a SF person is gonna come home in a flag draped body bag. ALL you cheerleaders out here - rah/rah/sheeshcumbah are then gonna say, we need to get out of there. No loss of American life. At that point, the guys who have invested blood, sweat and tears will not want to come home. In it to win it. You sent them there, finish the job. You all tough guys crack me up. I keep saying this, go do it. I would love to see DocB jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Get invested. Cheerleaders are just that.

You know people who meet people and learn don’t tell everyone how it is but are constantly trying to learn new things right?

[MDlaxfan76]

LandM,
Perhaps you haven't paid attention to this, but Americans have already been killed in Ukraine.

But there's zero basis to say we have military in country, currently.

It is not a matter of politicians not willing to say so (since when can you get politicians to shut up?), we simply don't need to....but yes, we undoubtedly have trainers and advisors, of all sorts, in close proximity to Ukraine. That's sufficient both for the training and for advice. We'd certainly have various intelligence analysis support as well.

Could we have some CIA in country? Possible, but as not necessary, I doubt it.

As to tough guy talk, what war did you fight in?
What principles did you fight for?

The Ukrainians were invaded in 2014 when they rejected the bought and paid for by Russia former President who then fled to Russia. (you know, the guy Manafort worked for). The Ukrainian people voted to turn towards greater alignment with the West, democracy, and freedom, and away from autocracy and oppression.

Putin had previously declared that Ukraine specifically (and other former Soviet states or vassals) do not have the right to be independent nations, and invaded, ostensibly in support of "Russian-speaking separatists"...and then last year declared again that Ukraine had no right to exist, declared the democratically elected government, including Jewish President, to be "Nazis"...and invaded in a blitzkrieg.

Violating international law in multiple ways.

And then has waged a brutal war of crimes against humanity. Any question in your mind about that?

What, are you "cheerleading" for Putin, not Ukraine and western democracy?

Enjoy the skiing in Telluride...jealous of you on that one...great spot, great skiing.

[a fan]

AFan - south would have never won the Civil War. South had way better generals and way better military tactics but when competing against a military industrial complex against a bunch of dingies boating out of a harbor in dark to sell bales of cotton to the French and English????

Funny things happen in war, and my question is simply a way of cutting to the point: if the South had won, slavery would have continued, and the Constitution would have been dissolved in those States. I have no interest in celebrating what those men were fight for...the Constitution going away, and the continuation of slavery.

Same goes for Germany and Japan. They had no chance of winning.....even still.....do you see any Hitler statues in the US anywhere? Why not?

Same reason.

[Seacoaster(1)]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/14/opinions ... index.html

Snippet:

Bergen: Is Russia failing because of failures of intelligence? Failures of its conscripts? Failures of Russian military culture? All the above?

Petraeus: All of the above and more. The list is long, including poor campaign design; wholly inadequate training (what were they doing for all those months they were deployed on the northern, eastern, and southern borders of Ukraine?); poor command, control, and communications; inadequate discipline (and a culture that condones war crimes and abuse of local populations); poor equipment (exemplified by turrets blowing off of tanks when fires ignite in them); insufficient logistic capabilities; inability to achieve combined arms effects (to employ all ground and air capabilities effectively together); inadequate organizational architecture; lack of a professional noncommissioned officer corps; a top-down command system that does not promote initiative at lower levels and pervasive corruption that undermines every aspect of their military – and the supporting military-industrial complex.

Bergen: So, do we not have to worry about Russia as a “great power” anymore?

Petraeus: Not at all. Russia still has enormous military capacity and is certainly still a nuclear superpower, as well as a country with enormous energy, mineral and agricultural blessings. It also has a population (about 145 million) that is nearly double that of the next largest European countries (Germany and Turkey, each just more than 80 million).

And it is still led by a kleptocratic dictator who embraces innumerable grievances and extreme revanchist views that severely undermine his decision-making.

Bergen: You know the observation sometimes attributed to Stalin: “Quantity has a quality all its own.” Russia has a far bigger population than Ukraine: Will that make a critical difference to the Ukraine war over the long term?

Petraeus: It could if Putin mobilized all of Russia successfully. However, to date, the mobilizations have been partial, as Putin seems to fear how the country might respond to total mobilization. In fact, reportedly, more Russian men left the country than reported to the mobilization stations in response to the latest partial call-up of reserves.

Nonetheless, it is estimated that as many as 300,000 new recruits and mobilized reservists are being sent to the frontlines, with up to 100,000-150,000 more on the way. And that is not trivial – because quantity does, indeed, matter.

Bergen: But is Napoleon correct in this case: “In war, the moral is to the physical as three is to one” – and Ukrainian morale seems to be higher.

Petraeus: That is a huge factor. Ukrainians sees the ongoing conflict as their War of Independence, and they have responded accordingly. President Volodomyr Zelensky has been positively Churchillian in rallying all Ukrainians to the service of their country as it fights for its national survival.

Thus, Ukrainians know what they are fighting for, while it is not clear that the same is true of many of the Russian soldiers, a disproportionate number of whom are from ethnic and sectarian minorities in the Russian Federation.

Moreover, Ukraine has, to date, done a better job than Russia of recruiting, training, equipping, organizing and employing additional forces – enabled by the extraordinary support provided by the US (more than $26 billion in arms, ammunition, and other security assistance since the beginning of the latest invasion) and other NATO and western countries. And I think we will see further evidence of this when Ukraine launches its counter-offensive in the spring or summer.

Bergen: What technologies have proven key to Ukrainian successes in this war? Several newish technologies seem to have proven important: Elon Musk’s Starlink mobile satellite systems kept communications open for the Ukrainians after the Russians had partially destroyed the phone system and jammed it. US-supplied HIMARS precision rockets have decimated Russian targets. Clearview AI, a controversial facial recognition technology used by some US police departments, has enabled the Ukrainians to identify Russian soldiers on the battlefield. TB2 Turkish armed drones have proven devastating to Russian targets and cheap commercial drones have helped the Ukrainians find targets.

Petraeus: All of those technologies have proven very important, and the Ukrainians have demonstrated enormous skill in adapting various technologies and commercial applications to enable intelligence gathering, targeting and other military tasks.

In fact, the Ukrainians have also shown exceptional abilities to “McGyver” solutions for a variety of problems – whether adapting Western missiles for use on MiG-29 fighter aircraft, repairing battle-damaged armored vehicles left on the battlefield by the Russians (remember the Ukrainians’ “tractor army”), or jamming Russian communications.

And the Ukrainians also have demonstrated a very impressive ability to learn how to employ new weapons systems and vehicles much more rapidly than anyone anticipated, as they want to master new capabilities as quickly as is possible and get back to the fight.

Bergen: How would you grade the Biden administration’s approach to the Ukraine war?

Petraeus: I think the Biden Administration has led NATO and the rest of the western world very impressively in responding to the Russian invasion – providing enormous quantities of arms, ammunition, and other material and economic assistance. And also guiding the effort to impose economic, financial and personal sanctions and export controls on Russia. (And I offer this, noting that I am not a member of a political party and was very critical of the decision to withdraw from Afghanistan and the way the withdrawal was conducted.)"

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/14/opinions ... index.html

Snippet:

Bergen: Is Russia failing because of failures of intelligence? Failures of its conscripts? Failures of Russian military culture? All the above?

Petraeus: All of the above and more. The list is long, including poor campaign design; wholly inadequate training (what were they doing for all those months they were deployed on the northern, eastern, and southern borders of Ukraine?); poor command, control, and communications; inadequate discipline (and a culture that condones war crimes and abuse of local populations); poor equipment (exemplified by turrets blowing off of tanks when fires ignite in them); insufficient logistic capabilities; inability to achieve combined arms effects (to employ all ground and air capabilities effectively together); inadequate organizational architecture; lack of a professional noncommissioned officer corps; a top-down command system that does not promote initiative at lower levels and pervasive corruption that undermines every aspect of their military – and the supporting military-industrial complex.

Bergen: So, do we not have to worry about Russia as a “great power” anymore?

Petraeus: Not at all. Russia still has enormous military capacity and is certainly still a nuclear superpower, as well as a country with enormous energy, mineral and agricultural blessings. It also has a population (about 145 million) that is nearly double that of the next largest European countries (Germany and Turkey, each just more than 80 million).

And it is still led by a kleptocratic dictator who embraces innumerable grievances and extreme revanchist views that severely undermine his decision-making.

Bergen: You know the observation sometimes attributed to Stalin: “Quantity has a quality all its own.” Russia has a far bigger population than Ukraine: Will that make a critical difference to the Ukraine war over the long term?

Petraeus: It could if Putin mobilized all of Russia successfully. However, to date, the mobilizations have been partial, as Putin seems to fear how the country might respond to total mobilization. In fact, reportedly, more Russian men left the country than reported to the mobilization stations in response to the latest partial call-up of reserves.

Nonetheless, it is estimated that as many as 300,000 new recruits and mobilized reservists are being sent to the frontlines, with up to 100,000-150,000 more on the way. And that is not trivial – because quantity does, indeed, matter.

Bergen: But is Napoleon correct in this case: “In war, the moral is to the physical as three is to one” – and Ukrainian morale seems to be higher.

Petraeus: That is a huge factor. Ukrainians sees the ongoing conflict as their War of Independence, and they have responded accordingly. President Volodomyr Zelensky has been positively Churchillian in rallying all Ukrainians to the service of their country as it fights for its national survival.

Thus, Ukrainians know what they are fighting for, while it is not clear that the same is true of many of the Russian soldiers, a disproportionate number of whom are from ethnic and sectarian minorities in the Russian Federation.

Moreover, Ukraine has, to date, done a better job than Russia of recruiting, training, equipping, organizing and employing additional forces – enabled by the extraordinary support provided by the US (more than $26 billion in arms, ammunition, and other security assistance since the beginning of the latest invasion) and other NATO and western countries. And I think we will see further evidence of this when Ukraine launches its counter-offensive in the spring or summer.

Bergen: What technologies have proven key to Ukrainian successes in this war? Several newish technologies seem to have proven important: Elon Musk’s Starlink mobile satellite systems kept communications open for the Ukrainians after the Russians had partially destroyed the phone system and jammed it. US-supplied HIMARS precision rockets have decimated Russian targets. Clearview AI, a controversial facial recognition technology used by some US police departments, has enabled the Ukrainians to identify Russian soldiers on the battlefield. TB2 Turkish armed drones have proven devastating to Russian targets and cheap commercial drones have helped the Ukrainians find targets.

Petraeus: All of those technologies have proven very important, and the Ukrainians have demonstrated enormous skill in adapting various technologies and commercial applications to enable intelligence gathering, targeting and other military tasks.

In fact, the Ukrainians have also shown exceptional abilities to “McGyver” solutions for a variety of problems – whether adapting Western missiles for use on MiG-29 fighter aircraft, repairing battle-damaged armored vehicles left on the battlefield by the Russians (remember the Ukrainians’ “tractor army”), or jamming Russian communications.

And the Ukrainians also have demonstrated a very impressive ability to learn how to employ new weapons systems and vehicles much more rapidly than anyone anticipated, as they want to master new capabilities as quickly as is possible and get back to the fight.

Bergen: How would you grade the Biden administration’s approach to the Ukraine war?

Petraeus: I think the Biden Administration has led NATO and the rest of the western world very impressively in responding to the Russian invasion – providing enormous quantities of arms, ammunition, and other material and economic assistance. And also guiding the effort to impose economic, financial and personal sanctions and export controls on Russia. (And I offer this, noting that I am not a member of a political party and was very critical of the decision to withdraw from Afghanistan and the way the withdrawal was conducted.)"

Thanks. That’s good perspective.

[DocBarrister]

I voted for Carter because like many 19 year old men I was more liberal than I am now. Looking back on it I would still have voted for Carter. Ford got in when Nixon and Agnew were basically ousted by the intelligence community in a soft coup. Yes, Nixon was flawed and paranoid, and that was his undoing. In reality, it was Mark Felt's revenge for being passed over for FBI Director in favor of L. Patrick Gray. Ford had strong ties to the intel community as a congressman.

Nixon taped himself committing the crimes that got him - no help needed from the Deep State.

Gerald Ford rightfully got shown the door for pardoning him.

I think we could debate the latter point's "rightfully" but it indeed worked against him.

I think there was also a general rejection of the corruption that more and more people realized had been long festering in the Nixon White House...and Carter wasn't a McGovern.

I think it's important to remember, albeit wistfully, that the GOP leadership actually pushed Nixon to resign and go without further turmoil and divisiveness; in that context, the pardon was intended for the country to move on from that era, peacefully.

And yes, the tapes were the final straw of embarrassment, proving the corruption beyond a doubt.

I'm cool with that...also cool with voters needing to give the other party a chance at the White House.

Congressional Republicans stuck with Nixon almost to the end, but hearing Nixon order obstruction on tape went one step too far. Seems almost quaint today.

Ford’s pardon of Nixon was defended by more than a few historians for decades. But then Trump came along and changed the perspective. Now many believe that Nixon serving time in prison might have prevented (or at least discouraged) much of the worst violations of law committed by Trump and his cronies.

DocBarrister

It might stop a more garden variety ne’er-do-well, but Trump’s a sociopath. He’s always operated under the guise that he’ll never get caught best case, or have attorneys slow roll things until you tire and go away.

True, but that “sociopath” might end up in a Georgia state penitentiary.

I’m hopin’ they still have the chain gangs down there for 45.

DocBarrister

They don’t but you’d prefer his yard mates not to be chained I’m pretty sure.

Well, are you talking about Rudy G & Company?

DocBarrister

[jhu72]

Why the American Right wants Russia to win. Certainly obvious, but worth the read.

[LandM]

MD,
I have to say, I get up around 2 to 3 every AM - last night I sat in an Adirondack chair on our back deck - just listening to the waves ~ extremely peaceful - I look forward to next December through Feb. BUT, excited to hit the slopes. I type this not to be snooty, but to say if a poor dumba$$ like myself can enjoy this and make it, if you will, America. If you want to know what I cheer for - see below - anybody who is honest and treats people with respect and cares about their fellow.

Far, the day you stop learning, I believe is the day you are dead.

Afan, I do not know how to copy and paste on this app - you cite the south, Japan, and Germany. None were going to overcome the will - none. If people get so triggered by a statue or words that they feel emboldened to riot and destroy - I feel bad for them. The three you cite had no reasonable chance. BUT I will say, my relatives were (Button noted) smart people. They started with a plot and grew enterprises. They were successful until Sherman and Grant lite the torch. I am going to give my relatives credit and believe they would have done the right thing. My best friend is black and I do NOT believe any of my relatives are rolling over in their grave. Let me ask you, my walking partner and his family own a very large apple farm about an hour outside Canandaigua (Clyde) - ever seen those living conditions? Lets take the possible next President - ever been to Half Moon Bay and seen the living conditions for the migrant workers?

MD,
Here we go = I showed up 48 hours before the Rangers did in Panama; played around the Horn for on and off 4/5 camping trips; went on 2 camping trips in Europe and was recalled for Gulf 1. Never been in a declared war. Does shots fired count?

I am well aware of Americans dying in Ukraine. I count them amongst the idiots that thought storming the capital was a great idea. I actually know a PSU graduate, owns a company that employees 200+, and saw his selfies with the Capital Police that day. Crazy.

As to Putin, he has no game plan. He is quagmired and has no clue how to get out. I just hope the Chinese stay down. Bring them in and now it is a different ball game. So to Afan, Putin is trying to recreate what was lost - how is that going for him? Same with the south - not gonna happen unless a major third party decides to play.

Finally, I have grandkids who I will see next week. I care about them. I cheerlead for my family, my friends, and for this country, I love the underdog. I am not a rah/rah guy BUT the hyperbole of thinking I care about Russia, a person, a statue is nuts. That is NOT the America I know, love, and see daily. BTW, I do NOT wear hats, T's, a ring or any other paraphernalia, just me.

[a fan]

Afan, I do not know how to copy and paste on this app - you cite the south, Japan, and Germany. None were going to overcome the will - none. If people get so triggered by a statue or words that they feel emboldened to riot and destroy - I feel bad for them.

I agree! All I'm saying is: I completely understand why some folks would want them taken down....put 'em in a museum, and give the history behind them.

The "it's not that big of a deal" door swings both way. If it's not that big of a deal to put them up? By definition, it's not that big of a deal to put take them down.

The three you cite had no reasonable chance. BUT I will say, my relatives were (Button noted) smart people. They started with a plot and grew enterprises. They were successful until Sherman and Grant lite the torch. I am going to give my relatives credit and believe they would have done the right thing. My best friend is black and I do NOT believe any of my relatives are rolling over in their grave. Let me ask you, my walking partner and his family own a very large apple farm about an hour outside Canandaigua (Clyde) - ever seen those living conditions? Lets take the possible next President - ever been to Half Moon Bay and seen the living conditions for the migrant workers?

Not sure what you're talking about here, my man. Safe travels, as always! We dropped from 60f to 4f here in Denver in a single day!

[MDlaxfan76]

MD,
I have to say, I get up around 2 to 3 every AM - last night I sat in an Adirondack chair on our back deck - just listening to the waves ~ extremely peaceful - I look forward to next December through Feb. BUT, excited to hit the slopes. I type this not to be snooty, but to say if a poor dumba$$ like myself can enjoy this and make it, if you will, America. If you want to know what I cheer for - see below - anybody who is honest and treats people with respect and cares about their fellow.

Far, the day you stop learning, I believe is the day you are dead.

Afan, I do not know how to copy and paste on this app - you cite the south, Japan, and Germany. None were going to overcome the will - none. If people get so triggered by a statue or words that they feel emboldened to riot and destroy - I feel bad for them. The three you cite had no reasonable chance. BUT I will say, my relatives were (Button noted) smart people. They started with a plot and grew enterprises. They were successful until Sherman and Grant lite the torch. I am going to give my relatives credit and believe they would have done the right thing. My best friend is black and I do NOT believe any of my relatives are rolling over in their grave. Let me ask you, my walking partner and his family own a very large apple farm about an hour outside Canandaigua (Clyde) - ever seen those living conditions? Lets take the possible next President - ever been to Half Moon Bay and seen the living conditions for the migrant workers?

MD,
Here we go = I showed up 48 hours before the Rangers did in Panama; played around the Horn for on and off 4/5 camping trips; went on 2 camping trips in Europe and was recalled for Gulf 1. Never been in a declared war. Does shots fired count?

I am well aware of Americans dying in Ukraine. I count them amongst the idiots that thought storming the capital was a great idea. I actually know a PSU graduate, owns a company that employees 200+, and saw his selfies with the Capital Police that day. Crazy.

As to Putin, he has no game plan. He is quagmired and has no clue how to get out. I just hope the Chinese stay down. Bring them in and now it is a different ball game. So to Afan, Putin is trying to recreate what was lost - how is that going for him? Same with the south - not gonna happen unless a major third party decides to play.

Finally, I have grandkids who I will see next week. I care about them. I cheerlead for my family, my friends, and for this country, I love the underdog. I am not a rah/rah guy BUT the hyperbole of thinking I care about Russia, a person, a statue is nuts. That is NOT the America I know, love, and see daily. BTW, I do NOT wear hats, T's, a ring or any other paraphernalia, just me.

Shots fired at an actual enemy counts in my book. So do shots being fired at you by an enemy.

But most of the guys I know or have known (deceased) who were in heavy action at some point, do not talk 'tough' or otherwise dismissively about others who were never in such a position.

I don't like "chicken hawks" either, as it seems to me that either extreme is distasteful...I prefer to think about what I'd want a family member to be called to do as the measure as to what's worth fighting for, and what's not. A good friend of my son's, a young man who I coached for years, hell of a person, is currently a Seal in Africa combatting terrorists...I don't know if he was involved in some of the recent operations or not, but that's an effort that I understand and I'm confident he understands.

Likewise, I understand why the Ukrainians are willing to fight so bravely, and I understand why it's been so important to have the West's financial etc support in having the tools to do so effectively. And I understand why we've been there for them...and I support doing so fulsomely through their defeat of Russia's aggression.

I bet Taiwan is rooting for that victory and resolve too.

Americans who have died there include aid workers, hardly a good analogy to Jan 6 insurrectionists...

Enjoy Telluride...9 years in a row skiing there each spring when my son was young. Great memories.

[LandM]

Lift 9 just got upgraded = let me know if you want pics

Marcus blew the cover off the top - point at his direction. I will say, about damn time. You gonna send young and highly trained folks into battle - own it. How about MD; aFan; Far; Pizza - go do it man. I responded to your request.

My fire is directed at Pizza - he has been under another name and he is a BS artist. He was never in SF. Call him out MD, You like calling others out, put him on the carpet.

MD, IMHO you grew up a kid in privileges'. Prep school and Dartmouth - did you make it on your own in your opinion?



'

[DocBarrister]

Why the American Right wants Russia to win. Certainly obvious, but worth the read.

Yes, it’s true what the article asserts … MAGA Republicanism is just the latest manifestation of a fascist far-right movement in America.

Right-wing fascist movements are like cockroaches. Every time you squash one, another appears from beneath the floorboards. Just gotta keep squashin’ them. The vigilance of Americans who actually believe in democracy must be unwavering.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Lift 9 just got upgraded = let me know if you want pics

Marcus blew the cover off the top - point at his direction. I will say, about damn time. You gonna send young and highly trained folks into battle - own it. How about MD; aFan; Far; Pizza - go do it man. I responded to your request.

My fire is directed at Pizza - he has been under another name and he is a BS artist. He was never in SF. Call him out MD, You like calling others out, put him on the carpet.

MD, IMHO you grew up a kid in privileges'. Prep school and Dartmouth - did you make it on your own in your opinion?



'

*DocBarrister getting some popcorn and awaiting MD’s reply.*

DocBarrister *munch, munch*

[Farfromgeneva]

I voted for Carter because like many 19 year old men I was more liberal than I am now. Looking back on it I would still have voted for Carter. Ford got in when Nixon and Agnew were basically ousted by the intelligence community in a soft coup. Yes, Nixon was flawed and paranoid, and that was his undoing. In reality, it was Mark Felt's revenge for being passed over for FBI Director in favor of L. Patrick Gray. Ford had strong ties to the intel community as a congressman.

Nixon taped himself committing the crimes that got him - no help needed from the Deep State.

Gerald Ford rightfully got shown the door for pardoning him.

I think we could debate the latter point's "rightfully" but it indeed worked against him.

I think there was also a general rejection of the corruption that more and more people realized had been long festering in the Nixon White House...and Carter wasn't a McGovern.

I think it's important to remember, albeit wistfully, that the GOP leadership actually pushed Nixon to resign and go without further turmoil and divisiveness; in that context, the pardon was intended for the country to move on from that era, peacefully.

And yes, the tapes were the final straw of embarrassment, proving the corruption beyond a doubt.

I'm cool with that...also cool with voters needing to give the other party a chance at the White House.

Congressional Republicans stuck with Nixon almost to the end, but hearing Nixon order obstruction on tape went one step too far. Seems almost quaint today.

Ford’s pardon of Nixon was defended by more than a few historians for decades. But then Trump came along and changed the perspective. Now many believe that Nixon serving time in prison might have prevented (or at least discouraged) much of the worst violations of law committed by Trump and his cronies.

DocBarrister

It might stop a more garden variety ne’er-do-well, but Trump’s a sociopath. He’s always operated under the guise that he’ll never get caught best case, or have attorneys slow roll things until you tire and go away.

True, but that “sociopath” might end up in a Georgia state penitentiary.

I’m hopin’ they still have the chain gangs down there for 45.

DocBarrister

They don’t but you’d prefer his yard mates not to be chained I’m pretty sure.

Well, are you talking about Rudy G & Company?

DocBarrister

I’m talking about him deciding if he prefers syrup or jelly in exchange for protection inside…will refer you to Franklin Winthrop in the show OZ…

[Farfromgeneva]

MD,
I have to say, I get up around 2 to 3 every AM - last night I sat in an Adirondack chair on our back deck - just listening to the waves ~ extremely peaceful - I look forward to next December through Feb. BUT, excited to hit the slopes. I type this not to be snooty, but to say if a poor dumba$$ like myself can enjoy this and make it, if you will, America. If you want to know what I cheer for - see below - anybody who is honest and treats people with respect and cares about their fellow.

Far, the day you stop learning, I believe is the day you are dead.

Afan, I do not know how to copy and paste on this app - you cite the south, Japan, and Germany. None were going to overcome the will - none. If people get so triggered by a statue or words that they feel emboldened to riot and destroy - I feel bad for them. The three you cite had no reasonable chance. BUT I will say, my relatives were (Button noted) smart people. They started with a plot and grew enterprises. They were successful until Sherman and Grant lite the torch. I am going to give my relatives credit and believe they would have done the right thing. My best friend is black and I do NOT believe any of my relatives are rolling over in their grave. Let me ask you, my walking partner and his family own a very large apple farm about an hour outside Canandaigua (Clyde) - ever seen those living conditions? Lets take the possible next President - ever been to Half Moon Bay and seen the living conditions for the migrant workers?

MD,
Here we go = I showed up 48 hours before the Rangers did in Panama; played around the Horn for on and off 4/5 camping trips; went on 2 camping trips in Europe and was recalled for Gulf 1. Never been in a declared war. Does shots fired count?

I am well aware of Americans dying in Ukraine. I count them amongst the idiots that thought storming the capital was a great idea. I actually know a PSU graduate, owns a company that employees 200+, and saw his selfies with the Capital Police that day. Crazy.

As to Putin, he has no game plan. He is quagmired and has no clue how to get out. I just hope the Chinese stay down. Bring them in and now it is a different ball game. So to Afan, Putin is trying to recreate what was lost - how is that going for him? Same with the south - not gonna happen unless a major third party decides to play.

Finally, I have grandkids who I will see next week. I care about them. I cheerlead for my family, my friends, and for this country, I love the underdog. I am not a rah/rah guy BUT the hyperbole of thinking I care about Russia, a person, a statue is nuts. That is NOT the America I know, love, and see daily. BTW, I do NOT wear hats, T's, a ring or any other paraphernalia, just me.

Word

[MDlaxfan76]

Lift 9 just got upgraded = let me know if you want pics

Marcus blew the cover off the top - point at his direction. I will say, about damn time. You gonna send young and highly trained folks into battle - own it. How about MD; aFan; Far; Pizza - go do it man. I responded to your request.

My fire is directed at Pizza - he has been under another name and he is a BS artist. He was never in SF. Call him out MD, You like calling others out, put him on the carpet.

MD, IMHO you grew up a kid in privileges'. Prep school and Dartmouth - did you make it on your own in your opinion?



'

I have no idea what you're talking about re Pizza, nor "Marcus" so I'll pass on those.

I'd heard that they opened up the backside of the mountain as well, areas previously only accessible to hikers and tree skiers...beyond my skill set.

Re "privilege", absolutely correct that I have and have had way, way above average "privilege", both economic advantages based on my parent's work and own education, and educational made possible by those resources and some of my own genetic talents and efforts of course. Big advantages out of the chute, and that's not including born a white male in our society, which has it's own "privileges". Perhaps somewhat less pronounced advantages than when I was growing up and initially competing in the world, but still some inherent structural advantages, IMO.

So, 'make it on my own'? Of course not...I don't think almost anyone actually makes it entirely on their own. Nearly every story has someone who lent a helping hand, an inspiring word, a hand up the ladder, along the way...indeed, it's a 'tell' to me when someone claims otherwise.

My wife comes from a more modest financial background, her dad never finished HS, went to war, then back on the boats like many generations before him commercial fishing. Her mom made it to nursing school, was a school nurse in the local public system. Both of her parents lost their mothers before the age of 10, both had absent fathers due to work, essentially raised themselves and their siblings. Self reliant. My wife went to public school, sewed her own clothes, worked from the age of ten, valedictorian, athlete, musician... never took a dime from her family for Dartmouth or Harvard Business School. Self reliant.

But she would never claim they she "made it on her own" as she had an intact, loving family, teachers who encouraged her, etc, etc.

That said, I haven't inherited any money (yet), have worked hard, married well, very lucky that way, and continue to believe that 'every day is a new day to close that deal' with my wife.

My dad's family had some money way back, his grandfather had been a doctor, including taking the family to Japan working in the consulate at the turn of the century...but died there. My grandfather at age 9 was put on a boat by himself back to the States with his dead father's body...he'd been supposed to go to Gilman school, but no insurance back then meant he went to public instead. He ended up working in insurance years later, but was a bad alcoholic and never managed to save anything. My dad's mom's family had some money and social privilege, but she passed away before he left HS and that family considered our side the black sheep...but he did have a good early education and due to lacrosse had the opportunity to go to UVA, where he ended up making the most of that opportunity, 3X AA, NC, captain, lived on the Lawn, etc. ROTC, went into the Army, served on the DEW line in Alaska. Got a job in banking and was quite successful, though most of his serious dough came from entrepreneurial side hustles, primarily in real estate development.

He wouldn't have claimed he "made it on his own" either.

My mom's family had some social 'privilege' but not much money, she went to Garrison Forest on scholarship, was captain of 2 sports, President of the school, went a year and a half to Wheaton, but left to get married to my dad, had me 9 and a half months later,...became a math teacher, then ran the middle school at Garrison Forest...very bright, she eventually went back to get her degree at Hopkins.

Both sides of my family have multiple ancestors who owned slaves, my mom's side, from Louisiana had KKK members too...

Everyone's background is interesting to me.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Lift 9 just got upgraded = let me know if you want pics

Marcus blew the cover off the top - point at his direction. I will say, about damn time. You gonna send young and highly trained folks into battle - own it. How about MD; aFan; Far; Pizza - go do it man. I responded to your request.

My fire is directed at Pizza - he has been under another name and he is a BS artist. He was never in SF. Call him out MD, You like calling others out, put him on the carpet.

MD, IMHO you grew up a kid in privileges'. Prep school and Dartmouth - did you make it on your own in your opinion?



'

I have no idea what you're talking about re Pizza, nor "Marcus" so I'll pass on those.

I'd heard that they opened up the backside of the mountain as well, areas previously only accessible to hikers and tree skiers...beyond my skill set.

Re "privilege", absolutely correct that I have and have had way, way above average "privilege", both economic advantages based on my parent's work and own education, and educational made possible by those resources and some of my own genetic talents and efforts of course. Big advantages out of the chute, and that's not including born a white male in our society, which has it's own "privileges". Perhaps somewhat less pronounced advantages than when I was growing up and initially competing in the world, but still some inherent structural advantages, IMO.

So, 'make it on my own'? Of course not...I don't think almost anyone actually makes it entirely on their own. Nearly every story has someone who lent a helping hand, an inspiring word, a hand up the ladder, along the way...indeed, it's a 'tell' to me when someone claims otherwise.

My wife comes from a more modest financial background, her dad never finished HS, went to war, then back on the boats like many generations before him commercial fishing. Her mom made it to nursing school, was a school nurse in the local public system. Both of her parents lost their mothers before the age of 10, both had absent fathers due to work, essentially raised themselves and their siblings. Self reliant. My wife went to public school, sewed her own clothes, worked from the age of ten, valedictorian, athlete, musician... never took a dime from her family for Dartmouth or Harvard Business School. Self reliant.

But she would never claim they she "made it on her own" as she had an intact, loving family, teachers who encouraged her, etc, etc.

That said, I haven't inherited any money (yet), have worked hard, married well, very lucky that way, and continue to believe that 'every day is a new day to close that deal' with my wife.

My dad's family had some money way back, his grandfather had been a doctor, including taking the family to Japan working in the consulate at the turn of the century...but died there. My grandfather at age 9 was put on a boat by himself back to the States with his dead father's body...he'd been supposed to go to Gilman school, but no insurance back then meant he went to public instead. He ended up working in insurance years later, but was a bad alcoholic and never managed to save anything. My dad's mom's family had some money and social privilege, but she passed away before he left HS and that family considered our side the black sheep...but he did have a good early education and due to lacrosse had the opportunity to go to UVA, where he ended up making the most of that opportunity, 3X AA, NC, captain, lived on the Lawn, etc. ROTC, went into the Army, served on the DEW line in Alaska. Got a job in banking and was quite successful, though most of his serious dough came from entrepreneurial side hustles, primarily in real estate development.

He wouldn't have claimed he "made it on his own" either.

My mom's family had some social 'privilege' but not much money, she went to Garrison Forest on scholarship, was captain of 2 sports, President of the school, went a year and a half to Wheaton, but left to get married to my dad, had me 9 and a half months later,...became a math teacher, then ran the middle school at Garrison Forest...very bright, she eventually went back to get her degree at Hopkins.

Both sides of my family have multiple ancestors who owned slaves, my mom's side, from Louisiana had KKK members too...

Everyone's background is interesting to me.

My old boss pulled me along with him. He said he grew up dirt poor in Queens and someone pulled him up. We started a leveraged finance group and he brought me in with him. A lot of people get help along the way and some of it is an invisible hand.