NFL

[Farfromgeneva]

Hey fan is short for fanatic but I do know the game pretty well myself here and I don’t like the call but it’s a penalty. It just is. I’m not the one who’s fighting so hard.

But yes the eagles should’ve had a 17-24pt lead as a former Mich St player who coached in the NFL w Andy Reid was agreeing with me on during the game. Leaving it to 10pts vs Mahomes, the same guy who came back from double digits to win in a super bowl just a couple years ago was where the game was lost.

Having played ILB in college and never ever held a TE or receiver, though Eva sue my pass coverage was always perfect of course, I know the rule and I know what is enforceable and it’s a penalty. The pro player who committed it says so. Whether it should be enforced so tightly can be debated but to suggest it isn’t a penalty is what a hardcore fan does. Just hope you weren’t Part of the crew that used to throw beer bottles and batteries at Dick Allen during his Phillies days.

We all know the game very well. This is hardly an arcane sport. Your "expertise" seems to be no greater than mine. You claim to have played, but say you never held anyone. Yeah, OK. BTW, a former Mich St. player who played for Reid says it was a bad call.

I have a reason to be fighting hard as I have a dog in the fight as a rabid Eagles fan for many decades. What I don't understand is why you, a Bears fan with no apparent rooting interest, want to keep pursuing this.

The majority of neutral commentators I've read or heard say the call shouldn't have been made, starting with an NFL tight end. You disagree. Fine.

The pool ref said the call was made because the jersey grab restricted the receiver from releasing to the outside. Except it didn't as the video clearly demonstrates. There is no disturbance of the receiver's pattern. The official's "restriction" explanation is consistent with how the rule is administered in practice. Notwithstanding the bare language of the rule, in practice refs require the "grab" or "hold" to affect the play; the receiver's pattern has to be restricted in some manner. Here the 0.2 sec jersey grab did not. Further, up til this point the game had been called rather loosely, at least in terms of play at the line of scrimmage and in the secondary. This call effectively ended the game. You simply can't do that at the very end of a Super Bowl. From your other post, it sounds like the refs made the same mistake two years in a row.

Bradbury didn't say he thought a penalty should be called. He took the blame, but don't for an instant think he thought there should have been a flag. He blamed himself, as upstanding players do (very common in sports). In any event, the video is the best evidence, and it clearly shows the grab lasted a nanosecond and didn't impede the receiver one iota.

Your prediction that the Eagles needed to be up by 17-24 points at the half to win the game didn't age well, did it? Do the math.

Your argument that the Eagles "lost" the game by only being up ten at the half is utterly asinine. The Eagles were up by ten at the half in 2018 and won. The difference is BG stripped Brady then. (Brady, as you'll recall, came back from a much bigger deficit than did Mahomes.) Eagles needed a big defensive play like that one yesterday. Didn't get it. Had they, they might have won, as might have happened had the bad holding call not been made. We'll never know.

Dick Allen's good friend, Johnny Callison, was my idol growing up. Late in life Johnny tended bar outside of Philadelphia. Allen would stop in from time to time. The bar owner hated when that happened as everyone would gather round to listen to the stories and no one would drink. My cousin and I toyed with going over to the bar to meet Johnny, but kept putting it off. Then John died. Big regret.

Dude I was kidding I held cats all the time. That’s why I know what defensive holding is.

I’m just a realist. I know the rules whether I like it called tightly or not if you get caught you get caught and that’s what it is. It becomes offensive when someone tries so hard to claim they were cheated though and starts making arguments in the abstract. It was an enjoyable game to watch. My father had great spirits as a Bills fan living through FOUR STRAIGHT super bowl losses and when he finally got to see the ills live for the first time because we grew up without much money was when I took him after Xmas when I first moved down to Atlanta. The Falcons stomped the Bills but my father had a great time with myself and his grandson (sisters son before I had kids) and couldn’t care less about the loss. That’s grace, not claiming ownership over a team as a fan and saying there’s a dog in the hunt. Complaining about refs is just weak in general.

Hey never ever give in. That’s what fanaticism is all about. I see your working for Fox sports Philly as well.

https://twitter.com/chadblue83/status/1 ... oHEstI0KMA

Had met Allen a few times. He’s greatly scarred by his time in Philly.

Are you saying that holding on the lax field is the same as holding on the football field? I have watched lax games for a few years now. I still have never seen any consistency on calling slashing penalties.

No I’m talking about the many times I’ve held wide receivers as a strong side ILB. I held my HS QB who converted to WR in college up so another LB could light him up on a slant once in fact.

[Farfromgeneva]

Hey fan is short for fanatic but I do know the game pretty well myself here and I don’t like the call but it’s a penalty. It just is. I’m not the one who’s fighting so hard.

But yes the eagles should’ve had a 17-24pt lead as a former Mich St player who coached in the NFL w Andy Reid was agreeing with me on during the game. Leaving it to 10pts vs Mahomes, the same guy who came back from double digits to win in a super bowl just a couple years ago was where the game was lost.

Having played ILB in college and never ever held a TE or receiver, though Eva sue my pass coverage was always perfect of course, I know the rule and I know what is enforceable and it’s a penalty. The pro player who committed it says so. Whether it should be enforced so tightly can be debated but to suggest it isn’t a penalty is what a hardcore fan does. Just hope you weren’t Part of the crew that used to throw beer bottles and batteries at Dick Allen during his Phillies days.

We all know the game very well. This is hardly an arcane sport. Your "expertise" seems to be no greater than mine. You claim to have played, but say you never held anyone. Yeah, OK. BTW, a former Mich St. player who played for Reid says it was a bad call.

I have a reason to be fighting hard as I have a dog in the fight as a rabid Eagles fan for many decades. What I don't understand is why you, a Bears fan with no apparent rooting interest, want to keep pursuing this.

The majority of neutral commentators I've read or heard say the call shouldn't have been made, starting with an NFL tight end. You disagree. Fine.

The pool ref said the call was made because the jersey grab restricted the receiver from releasing to the outside. Except it didn't as the video clearly demonstrates. There is no disturbance of the receiver's pattern. The official's "restriction" explanation is consistent with how the rule is administered in practice. Notwithstanding the bare language of the rule, in practice refs require the "grab" or "hold" to affect the play; the receiver's pattern has to be restricted in some manner. Here the 0.2 sec jersey grab did not. Further, up til this point the game had been called rather loosely, at least in terms of play at the line of scrimmage and in the secondary. This call effectively ended the game. You simply can't do that at the very end of a Super Bowl. From your other post, it sounds like the refs made the same mistake two years in a row.

Bradbury didn't say he thought a penalty should be called. He took the blame, but don't for an instant think he thought there should have been a flag. He blamed himself, as upstanding players do (very common in sports). In any event, the video is the best evidence, and it clearly shows the grab lasted a nanosecond and didn't impede the receiver one iota.

Your prediction that the Eagles needed to be up by 17-24 points at the half to win the game didn't age well, did it? Do the math.

Your argument that the Eagles "lost" the game by only being up ten at the half is utterly asinine. The Eagles were up by ten at the half in 2018 and won. The difference is BG stripped Brady then. (Brady, as you'll recall, came back from a much bigger deficit than did Mahomes.) Eagles needed a big defensive play like that one yesterday. Didn't get it. Had they, they might have won, as might have happened had the bad holding call not been made. We'll never know.

Dick Allen's good friend, Johnny Callison, was my idol growing up. Late in life Johnny tended bar outside of Philadelphia. Allen would stop in from time to time. The bar owner hated when that happened as everyone would gather round to listen to the stories and no one would drink. My cousin and I toyed with going over to the bar to meet Johnny, but kept putting it off. Then John died. Big regret.

Dude I was kidding I held cats all the time. That’s why I know what defensive holding is.

I’m just a realist. I know the rules whether I like it called tightly or not if you get caught you get caught and that’s what it is. It becomes offensive when someone tries so hard to claim they were cheated though and starts making arguments in the abstract. It was an enjoyable game to watch. My father had great spirits as a Bills fan living through FOUR STRAIGHT super bowl losses and when he finally got to see the ills live for the first time because we grew up without much money was when I took him after Xmas when I first moved down to Atlanta. The Falcons stomped the Bills but my father had a great time with myself and his grandson (sisters son before I had kids) and couldn’t care less about the loss. That’s grace, not claiming ownership over a team as a fan and saying there’s a dog in the hunt. Complaining about refs is just weak in general.

Hey never ever give in. That’s what fanaticism is all about. I see your working for Fox sports Philly as well.

https://twitter.com/chadblue83/status/1 ... oHEstI0KMA

Had met Allen a few times. He’s greatly scarred by his time in Philly.

IMO the debatable issue is how defensive holding is called. There are some refs who call it tight, other refs who call it loose. This is nothing new, it happens in NFL games all of the time. Maybe the refs that saw the play can huddle up and pick up the flag. I feel bad for any football player who is a D back. Your job is to prevent the receiver from catching the ball. How you do that will almost always earn you a penalty. You said you held players all of time. Is that because you wanted to hold them or because they had beaten you? Desperate situations require desperate solutions. My oldest son was a long pole and short stick d middie. He would do whatever he could to separate you from the ball. That was his job. He was pretty damn good at stripping the stick out of the other guys hand. There was nothing more satisfying to any lax defensive player than watching the stick from who you were defending flying through the air.

Because I needed to. It happens all the time but if you get caught you get caught. Sure I called refs all sorts of names under my breath and hated calls that are soft. But if break a rule and get caught so be it. S**t happens. I didn’t like the call but I dislike the whining pettiness by super fans afterwards even more. Why I pointed out my father, a deeply flawed man, and how he behaved with all sorts of bad luck and losses to his favorite team for years. Appreciate the game.

I might’ve empathized w Bill if the behavior wasn’t so out of touch with reality. I didn’t like the call when it happened but I saw it and it’s technically correct and stuff happens. They probably missed 10 other similar offenses throughout the game. The Seahawks a few years back had a strategy of being physical with receivers and seeing how much they could get away with knowing the refs wouldn’t call them all. I didn’t care for that either. Every chiefs fan probably spotted 5-10 incorrect calls against them.

But let’s have a bunch of people whined distort the truth and ruin what was otherwise a good fun game with some excellent hitting, guys we’re getting blasted and no illegal head shot calls that’s something! Mahomes got his second SB in what 5yr career. There’s a lot of good stuff or we can let some irrational people ruin it for everyone else and play tough Philly guy. But I’m correct in the rule and the call and I know it. The player knows it and the distortions being made are just a joke.

[cradleandshoot]

Hey fan is short for fanatic but I do know the game pretty well myself here and I don’t like the call but it’s a penalty. It just is. I’m not the one who’s fighting so hard.

But yes the eagles should’ve had a 17-24pt lead as a former Mich St player who coached in the NFL w Andy Reid was agreeing with me on during the game. Leaving it to 10pts vs Mahomes, the same guy who came back from double digits to win in a super bowl just a couple years ago was where the game was lost.

Having played ILB in college and never ever held a TE or receiver, though Eva sue my pass coverage was always perfect of course, I know the rule and I know what is enforceable and it’s a penalty. The pro player who committed it says so. Whether it should be enforced so tightly can be debated but to suggest it isn’t a penalty is what a hardcore fan does. Just hope you weren’t Part of the crew that used to throw beer bottles and batteries at Dick Allen during his Phillies days.

We all know the game very well. This is hardly an arcane sport. Your "expertise" seems to be no greater than mine. You claim to have played, but say you never held anyone. Yeah, OK. BTW, a former Mich St. player who played for Reid says it was a bad call.

I have a reason to be fighting hard as I have a dog in the fight as a rabid Eagles fan for many decades. What I don't understand is why you, a Bears fan with no apparent rooting interest, want to keep pursuing this.

The majority of neutral commentators I've read or heard say the call shouldn't have been made, starting with an NFL tight end. You disagree. Fine.

The pool ref said the call was made because the jersey grab restricted the receiver from releasing to the outside. Except it didn't as the video clearly demonstrates. There is no disturbance of the receiver's pattern. The official's "restriction" explanation is consistent with how the rule is administered in practice. Notwithstanding the bare language of the rule, in practice refs require the "grab" or "hold" to affect the play; the receiver's pattern has to be restricted in some manner. Here the 0.2 sec jersey grab did not. Further, up til this point the game had been called rather loosely, at least in terms of play at the line of scrimmage and in the secondary. This call effectively ended the game. You simply can't do that at the very end of a Super Bowl. From your other post, it sounds like the refs made the same mistake two years in a row.

Bradbury didn't say he thought a penalty should be called. He took the blame, but don't for an instant think he thought there should have been a flag. He blamed himself, as upstanding players do (very common in sports). In any event, the video is the best evidence, and it clearly shows the grab lasted a nanosecond and didn't impede the receiver one iota.

Your prediction that the Eagles needed to be up by 17-24 points at the half to win the game didn't age well, did it? Do the math.

Your argument that the Eagles "lost" the game by only being up ten at the half is utterly asinine. The Eagles were up by ten at the half in 2018 and won. The difference is BG stripped Brady then. (Brady, as you'll recall, came back from a much bigger deficit than did Mahomes.) Eagles needed a big defensive play like that one yesterday. Didn't get it. Had they, they might have won, as might have happened had the bad holding call not been made. We'll never know.

Dick Allen's good friend, Johnny Callison, was my idol growing up. Late in life Johnny tended bar outside of Philadelphia. Allen would stop in from time to time. The bar owner hated when that happened as everyone would gather round to listen to the stories and no one would drink. My cousin and I toyed with going over to the bar to meet Johnny, but kept putting it off. Then John died. Big regret.

Dude I was kidding I held cats all the time. That’s why I know what defensive holding is.

I’m just a realist. I know the rules whether I like it called tightly or not if you get caught you get caught and that’s what it is. It becomes offensive when someone tries so hard to claim they were cheated though and starts making arguments in the abstract. It was an enjoyable game to watch. My father had great spirits as a Bills fan living through FOUR STRAIGHT super bowl losses and when he finally got to see the ills live for the first time because we grew up without much money was when I took him after Xmas when I first moved down to Atlanta. The Falcons stomped the Bills but my father had a great time with myself and his grandson (sisters son before I had kids) and couldn’t care less about the loss. That’s grace, not claiming ownership over a team as a fan and saying there’s a dog in the hunt. Complaining about refs is just weak in general.

Hey never ever give in. That’s what fanaticism is all about. I see your working for Fox sports Philly as well.

https://twitter.com/chadblue83/status/1 ... oHEstI0KMA

Had met Allen a few times. He’s greatly scarred by his time in Philly.

Are you saying that holding on the lax field is the same as holding on the football field? I have watched lax games for a few years now. I still have never seen any consistency on calling slashing penalties.

No I’m talking about the many times I’ve held wide receivers as a strong side ILB. I held my HS QB who converted to WR in college up so another LB could light him up on a slant once in fact.

We have something in common. I was a slash player in HS. I held the receiver on every play. HS football in the 1970s was all about running the ball. If 10 balls were ever thrown to a wide receiver that was a lot. I was 6 ft and 170 pounds and the fastest person on the field. My job was outside contain because that is where the runner was trying to get yards. I loved hitting people my technique was hitting the legs and knocking the runner down. FTR, our team didn't win a lot of games.

[cradleandshoot]

Hey fan is short for fanatic but I do know the game pretty well myself here and I don’t like the call but it’s a penalty. It just is. I’m not the one who’s fighting so hard.

But yes the eagles should’ve had a 17-24pt lead as a former Mich St player who coached in the NFL w Andy Reid was agreeing with me on during the game. Leaving it to 10pts vs Mahomes, the same guy who came back from double digits to win in a super bowl just a couple years ago was where the game was lost.

Having played ILB in college and never ever held a TE or receiver, though Eva sue my pass coverage was always perfect of course, I know the rule and I know what is enforceable and it’s a penalty. The pro player who committed it says so. Whether it should be enforced so tightly can be debated but to suggest it isn’t a penalty is what a hardcore fan does. Just hope you weren’t Part of the crew that used to throw beer bottles and batteries at Dick Allen during his Phillies days.

We all know the game very well. This is hardly an arcane sport. Your "expertise" seems to be no greater than mine. You claim to have played, but say you never held anyone. Yeah, OK. BTW, a former Mich St. player who played for Reid says it was a bad call.

I have a reason to be fighting hard as I have a dog in the fight as a rabid Eagles fan for many decades. What I don't understand is why you, a Bears fan with no apparent rooting interest, want to keep pursuing this.

The majority of neutral commentators I've read or heard say the call shouldn't have been made, starting with an NFL tight end. You disagree. Fine.

The pool ref said the call was made because the jersey grab restricted the receiver from releasing to the outside. Except it didn't as the video clearly demonstrates. There is no disturbance of the receiver's pattern. The official's "restriction" explanation is consistent with how the rule is administered in practice. Notwithstanding the bare language of the rule, in practice refs require the "grab" or "hold" to affect the play; the receiver's pattern has to be restricted in some manner. Here the 0.2 sec jersey grab did not. Further, up til this point the game had been called rather loosely, at least in terms of play at the line of scrimmage and in the secondary. This call effectively ended the game. You simply can't do that at the very end of a Super Bowl. From your other post, it sounds like the refs made the same mistake two years in a row.

Bradbury didn't say he thought a penalty should be called. He took the blame, but don't for an instant think he thought there should have been a flag. He blamed himself, as upstanding players do (very common in sports). In any event, the video is the best evidence, and it clearly shows the grab lasted a nanosecond and didn't impede the receiver one iota.

Your prediction that the Eagles needed to be up by 17-24 points at the half to win the game didn't age well, did it? Do the math.

Your argument that the Eagles "lost" the game by only being up ten at the half is utterly asinine. The Eagles were up by ten at the half in 2018 and won. The difference is BG stripped Brady then. (Brady, as you'll recall, came back from a much bigger deficit than did Mahomes.) Eagles needed a big defensive play like that one yesterday. Didn't get it. Had they, they might have won, as might have happened had the bad holding call not been made. We'll never know.

Dick Allen's good friend, Johnny Callison, was my idol growing up. Late in life Johnny tended bar outside of Philadelphia. Allen would stop in from time to time. The bar owner hated when that happened as everyone would gather round to listen to the stories and no one would drink. My cousin and I toyed with going over to the bar to meet Johnny, but kept putting it off. Then John died. Big regret.

Dude I was kidding I held cats all the time. That’s why I know what defensive holding is.

I’m just a realist. I know the rules whether I like it called tightly or not if you get caught you get caught and that’s what it is. It becomes offensive when someone tries so hard to claim they were cheated though and starts making arguments in the abstract. It was an enjoyable game to watch. My father had great spirits as a Bills fan living through FOUR STRAIGHT super bowl losses and when he finally got to see the ills live for the first time because we grew up without much money was when I took him after Xmas when I first moved down to Atlanta. The Falcons stomped the Bills but my father had a great time with myself and his grandson (sisters son before I had kids) and couldn’t care less about the loss. That’s grace, not claiming ownership over a team as a fan and saying there’s a dog in the hunt. Complaining about refs is just weak in general.

Hey never ever give in. That’s what fanaticism is all about. I see your working for Fox sports Philly as well.

https://twitter.com/chadblue83/status/1 ... oHEstI0KMA

Had met Allen a few times. He’s greatly scarred by his time in Philly.

IMO the debatable issue is how defensive holding is called. There are some refs who call it tight, other refs who call it loose. This is nothing new, it happens in NFL games all of the time. Maybe the refs that saw the play can huddle up and pick up the flag. I feel bad for any football player who is a D back. Your job is to prevent the receiver from catching the ball. How you do that will almost always earn you a penalty. You said you held players all of time. Is that because you wanted to hold them or because they had beaten you? Desperate situations require desperate solutions. My oldest son was a long pole and short stick d middie. He would do whatever he could to separate you from the ball. That was his job. He was pretty damn good at stripping the stick out of the other guys hand. There was nothing more satisfying to any lax defensive player than watching the stick from who you were defending flying through the air.

Because I needed to. It happens all the time but if you get caught you get caught. Sure I called refs all sorts of names under my breath and hated calls that are soft. But if break a rule and get caught so be it. S**t happens. I didn’t like the call but I dislike the whining pettiness by super fans afterwards even more. Why I pointed out my father, a deeply flawed man, and how he behaved with all sorts of bad luck and losses to his favorite team for years. Appreciate the game.

I might’ve empathized w Bill if the behavior wasn’t so out of touch with reality. I didn’t like the call when it happened but I saw it and it’s technically correct and stuff happens. They probably missed 10 other similar offenses throughout the game. The Seahawks a few years back had a strategy of being physical with receivers and seeing how much they could get away with knowing the refs wouldn’t call them all. I didn’t care for that either. Every chiefs fan probably spotted 5-10 incorrect calls against them.

But let’s have a bunch of people whined distort the truth and ruin what was otherwise a good fun game with some excellent hitting, guys we’re getting blasted and no illegal head shot calls that’s something! Mahomes got his second SB in what 5yr career. There’s a lot of good stuff or we can let some irrational people ruin it for everyone else and play tough Philly guy. But I’m correct in the rule and the call and I know it. The player knows it and the distortions being made are just a joke.

I disagree about the call for defensive holding on that play. I wish the refs had huddled, talked it over and picked up the flag. The game was ultimately decided by the refs on a ticky tack penalty. Greg Olsen made the same observation from his job in the booth. He said let the players play. I agree 100% with his observation. That being said, the refs made the call and that is all that matters.

[njbill]

ffg, you crack me up. You’ve evidently run out of arguments so you resort to name calling, bizarrely bringing up Dick Allen, and talking about your (meaningless) glory days from long ago.

And now you say someone can’t root for a team unless they played on it or had a family member who did so. Don’t tell Roger. That would kinda depress his TV ratings.

You think the flag should’ve been thrown. I don’t. Most people agree with me. A minority agree with you. But you are right about one thing. A penalty was called and that’s not going to change.

[youthathletics]

Worth a listen: https://twitter.com/michael_schlact/sta ... UU5S3_Jw0A

[Brooklyn]

A penalty was called and that’s not going to change.

with James Bradberry agreeing that it was the right call

[AOD]

Just hope you weren’t Part of the crew that used to throw beer bottles and batteries at Dick Allen during his Phillies days.

This is truly a regrettable statement. It has no bearing, relationship or even relevance to the Super Bowl exchange. Only you know your intentions but to me it appears you wanted to smear Phila fans generally, perhaps emboldened by your anecdotal experience.

The sixties were a time of national reckoning in race relations that have evolved far too slowly these past sixty years. Dick Allen's tenure in Philly is but one example of the unrest and conflict our nation experienced. At the forefront were the sportswriters who refused to acknowledge Allen's immense talent. Then, you had teammates like Frank Thomas (not that Frank Thomas) whose racist behavior fanned the clubhouse embers. Some fans would scream from the stands their own racist screeds feeling encouraged by the sportswriters and a few of Allen's teammates. To place njbill there among them is grotesque.

I first experienced racism at Connie Mack Stadium - seven years old cheering for Dick Allen, Johnny Briggs, Jim Bunning and Johnny Callison. Although I was raised in a white suburb, my parents grew up in urban Philadelphia areas integrated by poverty. They shared with their neighbors an interest in music, sports, family and food. My mother was a cheerleader at Simon Gratz when they played Overbrook led by Wilt Chamberlain. Our household and most Phila-area households held no racial animosity or prejudice. The jeering of Dick Allen gave my dad an opportunity to explain clearly the ignorance of racism with an example sitting just a few seats away booing the best player on the team he came to cheer. There were many applauding Dick with us. I don't doubt that Dick Allen was scarred from his time in Philly but to suggest he was hated by Phila fans is simply wrong.

I am stunned FFG. For a poster that expresses so much education and life experience, I can't believe you would latch on to that tired trope about Philadelphia fans.

[njbill]

A penalty was called and that’s not going to change.

with James Bradberry agreeing that it was the right call

Apologies for continuing to beat this dead horse, but he didn’t actually say that. He said he held the guy, but hoped/thought they wouldn’t throw a flag. Perhaps I’m splitting hairs, but I interpreted his comment as saying he didn’t think what he did deserved a penalty. He spoke in the locker room again today (clean out day), but apparently wasn’t asked about this play. In any event, what he says is relevant, but not dispositive.

Not all jersey grabs are fouls. In practice you have to also impede the receiver. To my eyes that didn’t happen. Others may see it differently which is fine. All proper fodder for sports debate. Of course, the refs get, and got here, the final word.

It’s just a shame the fans were deprived of a chance to see an exciting conclusion to the game. Oh, and OK, a shame to Eagles fans the team didn’t have one last shot.

Most of the breaks/big plays went in the Chiefs favor, but certainly some went the Eagles way. The Sanders “catch” and fumble. The Goedert catch which was reviewed. Chiefs jumping off sides on fourth and about five. The Brown touchdown where he adjusted to the ball and the two Kansas City DBs who were right there failed to do so.

We gotta move on. For me, I’d be real happy if Gannon does get hired by the Cardinals, which could be the case.

Edit: Gannon hired by the Cards. Wonder if it has ever happened before that the two coordinators from the losing Super Bowl team got hired as head coaches while the coordinators on the winning team did not?

[Brooklyn]

njbill,

Apologies for continuing to beat this dead horse, but he didn’t actually say that. He said he held the guy, but hoped/thought they wouldn’t throw a flag. Perhaps I’m splitting hairs, but I interpreted his comment as saying he didn’t think what he did deserved a penalty.

For the record, he did NOT say they made the wrong call.

[njbill]

That’s right, but now you are splitting hairs or at least parsing words. He did not say the call was correct either. He didn’t say the call was correct or incorrect. He was very careful in his comments.

Obviously, players have to be cautious when commenting on official’s calls. They really can’t say a ref made the wrong call as they can get fined. So it’s no surprise he would not directly say the call was a bad call to reporters who were videotaping his comments. But he also did not say the call was good although he was certainly given an opportunity to do so in the interview.

The relevant action took place in a split second. The jersey grab took about 0.2 seconds. In the moment, I’m sure Bradberry didn’t really know whether he had committed a foul or not. Not all jersey grabs are fouls. It has to impede the receiver. The video does not show the receiver being impeded.

Mixed into all this was the fact that Bradberry was able to legally chuck the receiver at this spot on the field. He was allowed to put his hands on the receiver and, indeed, to restrict his movement as long as he didn’t restrict the movement by holding. It actually was a fairly complex situation. In all of this, to my thinking, it’s quite likely Bradbury didn’t know whether or not he had committed a foul. Was the grab a foul? He didn’t know though of course he hoped there would be no call.

You are driving down the highway. Cop goes by. You know you are driving fast, but you are not sure if you are going over the limit. You’re worried he’ll stop you for speeding because you might be speeding. Were you? Your view on that might be relevant, but it’s not dispositive. It’s not better than the radar gun.

Here Bradberry’s comments are relevant, but they aren’t better evidence than the video which shows the receiver’s movement was not restricted.

[DMac]

I feel your pain, njb, honestly do. It's pretty amazing the affect the outcome of what is really an insignificant ballgame, the outcome of which is truly meaningless in our life's journey, can have on us. JFTR, I thought the Birds took it in the asz a little regarding the officiating in this one. I didn't really care who won...I actually think Chris Stapleton was the MVP of the night. Was a good game to watch, two good teams.
I think the '09 NC game jolted your emotions more than any other game/ending I've ever seen.
Both ways, elation and disbelief, and despondency and disbelief. The emotions linger for a long
time from that one.

[Brooklyn]

prosecutor: "did you pull on his jersey in violation of the holding rule?"

Bradberry: "I pulled on his jersey"







That's the law, even in Nu Joisey.

[Brooklyn]

... and with that replay, imagine what the outcry would have been if the refs had not made the call. Everyone and their mother would have screamed FIX!

[njbill]

prosecutor: "did you pull on his jersey in violation of the holding rule?"

Bradberry: "I pulled on his jersey"







That's the law, even in Nu Joisey.

Defense counsel: Your Honor, before the witness is dismissed, I have a few questions for him. Did you impede the receiver’s progress?

Bradberry: no.

Defense counsel: in the NFL, do the officials require a receiver’s progress to be impeded by a hold in order to throw a flag?

Bradberry: yes.

Defense counsel: are all holds in the NFL considered to be penalties and are they all penalized?

Bradberry: no.

Defense counsel: Roger has given you immunity from sanctions by the league for truthfully answering the next two questions. Was what you did a penalty in the NFL?

Bradberry: no.

Defense counsel: did the official make the correct call?

Bradberry: no.

Defense counsel: lastly, did this play occur in the state of Arizona?

Bradberry: yes.

Defense counsel: does Arizona have a stand your ground law?

Bradberry: yes.

Defense counsel: were you simply standing your ground as you were permitted to do under Arizona law?

Bradberry: yes.

Defense counsel: no further questions. Your honor, I also wish to point out that the prosecutor is a long time Giants fan. The court may take judicial notice of the fact that Giants fans and Eagles fans hate each other. Thus, the prosecutor is biased and should be removed from the case.

[njbill]

... and with that replay, imagine what the outcry would have been if the refs had not made the call. Everyone and their mother would have screamed FIX!

I have seen a lot of commentary addressing that very point. Almost everyone says that if a flag hadn’t been thrown, there would’ve been no mention of it at all.

Interesting to look at how the two players dealt with the situation. Bradberry took the blame and admitted he grabbed the receiver’s jersey. The receiver posts an obnoxious tweet. To my knowledge, none of his teammates or his coaches have castigated him for that.

[Brooklyn]

^



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[Farfromgeneva]

Just hope you weren’t Part of the crew that used to throw beer bottles and batteries at Dick Allen during his Phillies days.

This is truly a regrettable statement. It has no bearing, relationship or even relevance to the Super Bowl exchange. Only you know your intentions but to me it appears you wanted to smear Phila fans generally, perhaps emboldened by your anecdotal experience.

The sixties were a time of national reckoning in race relations that have evolved far too slowly these past sixty years. Dick Allen's tenure in Philly is but one example of the unrest and conflict our nation experienced. At the forefront were the sportswriters who refused to acknowledge Allen's immense talent. Then, you had teammates like Frank Thomas (not that Frank Thomas) whose racist behavior fanned the clubhouse embers. Some fans would scream from the stands their own racist screeds feeling encouraged by the sportswriters and a few of Allen's teammates. To place njbill there among them is grotesque.

I first experienced racism at Connie Mack Stadium - seven years old cheering for Dick Allen, Johnny Briggs, Jim Bunning and Johnny Callison. Although I was raised in a white suburb, my parents grew up in urban Philadelphia areas integrated by poverty. They shared with their neighbors an interest in music, sports, family and food. My mother was a cheerleader at Simon Gratz when they played Overbrook led by Wilt Chamberlain. Our household and most Phila-area households held no racial animosity or prejudice. The jeering of Dick Allen gave my dad an opportunity to explain clearly the ignorance of racism with an example sitting just a few seats away booing the best player on the team he came to cheer. There were many applauding Dick with us. I don't doubt that Dick Allen was scarred from his time in Philly but to suggest he was hated by Phila fans is simply wrong.

I am stunned FFG. For a poster that expresses so much education and life experience, I can't believe you would latch on to that tired trope about Philadelphia fans.

I personally spent time with Allen. He was scarred for life by his experience there. Badly. I’m not going to apologize for an irrational fanatic going insane over a game they have no personal attachment to when the Philadelphia fans have proven to be POS historically and to blame it on 60s race relations is a joke.

The entire exchange is petty because some fans team lost and diminishes the experience for everyone else who enjoyed a good game. It obnoxious to make claims having not played at any high level that are flat out incorrect when I once was paid to play football (arena it’s like money to buy a candy bar with but still I know what a f’ng defensive hold is and what it isn’t better than a super fan who’s wants to play lawyer because his team lost).

Don’t tell tell me the whiner who’s yelling at others is the victim here. The people who have to listen to the petty and incorrect whining are the victims here. So yes, when I see irrationality in that level and personally knew a guy who was abused by that same fan base its fair to put the two together. Fans putting their delicate sensibilities when their teams lose over other human beings.

[Farfromgeneva]

ffg, you crack me up. You’ve evidently run out of arguments so you resort to name calling, bizarrely bringing up Dick Allen, and talking about your (meaningless) glory days from long ago.

And now you say someone can’t root for a team unless they played on it or had a family member who did so. Don’t tell Roger. That would kinda depress his TV ratings.

You think the flag should’ve been thrown. I don’t. Most people agree with me. A minority agree with you. But you are right about one thing. A penalty was called and that’s not going to change.

You’re putting words in my mouth or not reading. Whether I think a call should’ve been made or not doesn’t matter because it is a penalty. Lots get missed in every game but if one happens dont heck whine about it. I hate the call and wish more physicality was allowed around the LOS but in life of wins and losses some people have the common sense to take the L in stride and move on.

I didn’t say don’t root for a team but don’t get aggressive with others who have superior knowledge of the game because your little team lost. I crack you up? You’re behavior is stunning to me. Get over it.

When one unilaterally declares they won they are George Bush…

[njbill]

First of all, your bringing Dick Allen into this is utterly irrational (actually despicable). Asking if I threw batteries at him is like me asking if you were a member of the KKK and beat up Blacks in Georgia. So drop the Allen references.

No, I didn’t put any words in your mouth. That’s what you said. In fact, twice now.

You assume I didn’t play football. I did. I also officiated (low level). Regardless, defensive holding is not rocket science. You don't have to have been an NFL receiver (many of whom say it was a bad call BTW) or DB to have an opinion. In any event, you express opinions on this forum about a lot of issues as to which you have no education, training, or experience. Like legal issues. You aren’t a lawyer. Does that mean you should be precluded from posting about the law? Of course not. Everyone here is entitled to post about anything they want whether or not they have life experience with the issue.

Yes, I first brought up the holding call in this thread (not in response to anything you wrote), but you then jumped in and have been going full throttle even though you have no rooting interest in the game and didn’t play for the Eagles or have a family member who did (your standard). Of course, that’s a completely silly position to take.

You have no understanding or appreciation at all for Philadelphia fans. You think I’m the only one who is “going insane over a game they had no personal attachment to”? You might want to listen to sports talk radio here to educate yourself. I am far from the only one who is discussing, or PO'd about, the holding call.

FWIW, I have discussed this call with at least a dozen other people. Some agree, some disagree. But no one has gotten as remotely exercised about it as you have. Frankly, that’s really perplexing to me given that you have no connection to the Chiefs, the Eagles, KC, Philly, or anyone on those teams or in those cities.

We started out having what I thought was simply a robust discussion about a controversial play in the SB. But I seem to have really upset you. I “ruined” the game for you? I “diminishe[d] the experience” for you? If you get so distraught over my posts, don’t read them. Dude, something is going on with you, as you have acknowledged before. I don't know what it is, but it seems to have seeped in here. For some reason, you've decided to put me in the line of fire. I hope whatever it is that it gets resolved for your sake. I mean that sincerely.