All Things Russia & Ukraine

[PizzaSnake]

FWIW, it's a good thing I didn't accept that full-ride NROTC scholarship, because there is no way I would have put up with such a bunch of sniveling ass-clowns as what seems to populate the US Navy. That and my father warned me about what a bunch of stuffed-shirt twats Academy boys were. He was a non-Academy flag officer. How about you, swabbie, you command a ship? Or did you catch a ride on someone else's ship? Then maybe commanded a desk? Or maybe you saw yourself as an Admiral Holloway (III) type? That it?

:lol: ...I don't know how we got by without you. I went to sea, flying from the decks of frigates & destroyers. They were commanded by Surface Warfare Officers, not by Naval Aviators. I spent my entire career in operational flying billets, flying aircraft, not desks. Thanks for asking.
NROTC scholarships are not full rides. You have to pay your own room & board. Depends on the school attended, as those provisions are often granted by the institution. I sent a $25 dorm deposit to Georgia Tech before I got a telegram from USNA. I was also accepted & approved for admission at Purdue & RPI, but Boddy Dodd sent me an invitation to come our for freshman football at GT.

Yeah, I can see the Navy has been quite the bang-up fcuking success. Can't even run it vessels (little problems navigating without collision) or its acquisitions (Littoral Combat Shites) for shite. Or, maybe the stellar behavior of its leadership evidenced by the Tailhook fiasco or its maintenance and operations (Fat Leonard).

You really want to go with the position that it has been anything other than a unmitigated disaster? Good thing the Soviet Union collapsed, otherwise we'd have been screwed.

But you're right. My presence couldn't have overcome the imbecilic inertia of the ring-knockers like you. Which is why I decided, rationally, not to involve myself with such a circus.

Why don't you entertain me and others here with a point-by-point refutation of my charges of incompetence and arrogance?

“Ring knockers”. Thank you for a new term I will now abuse.

“What like a volkswagon?”

https://getyarn.io/yarn-story/19975175- ... fc65f54079

Careful. They tend to be a wee bit touchy about that sobriquet.

In the limited exposure you’ve had to me here do you think I have or function under a robust personal risk management framework?

Good point. Just thought I’d mention it.

[old salt]

And apologists just stayed mute.
I don't see Salty objecting to Trump's position..

"might" = not worth worrying about.
Gen Milley recommended a commission to study it which delayed a showdown.
I figured it was inevitable & was interested to see what names the comm came up with.

[MDlaxfan76]

And apologists just stayed mute.
I don't see Salty objecting to Trump's position..

"might" = not worth worrying about.
Gen Milley recommended a commission to study it which delayed a showdown.
I figured it was inevitable & was interested to see what names the comm came up with.

Apologists don't 'worry about' things that 'might' undermine their 'policy' reasons to support whatever low life they support.
So they don't take issue when given a chance to do so.

In your case, you stayed mute, though you had no difficulty speaking up to critique others...

Your answer:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-debt-li ... lt-report/

Milley didn't recommend a commission to 'delay a showdown', he recommended getting those with different expertise than his own to focus on the task. Which they did...

It wasn't a small task, i.e. just 9 bases...but rather the identification of over 1,000 matters deserving of attention and modification.

But pooh pooh it as 'woke'...

[LandM]

Far,
I graduated USAFA 1984 - ring night was 100 days to graduation best I can recall. I wore my ring one time, that night. Contrary to Pizza Snake who I am pretty sure under a different names claimed he was a SEAL - same temperament, same big words and egotistical voice - not all of us are beholden with a ring. I was "forced" to buy my ring as it was shell out $250 or go speak with the Commandant of Cadets and Sup. It was easier to buy the ring which I wore once.

Pizza, admit, you did not have the gas in the tank to go to USNA and you were never a special forces operator. Best advise I ever received, Coach Fisher DeBerry - NEVER BE A BEEN BROTHER - COULDA, SHOULDA, WOULDA.

Far,
You live in Atlanta area I believe. Button Gwinnett (Gwinnett County) is my uncle. Button signed the Declaration of Independence. Macintosh County is named after another uncle. The two drunk Irishmen got into a duel as to who would lead the Georgia militia. Button died and the rest is GA history. My family owned St. Simons; Jekyll and the surrounding area. Another uncle, Edward Rutledge from the South Carolina was the youngest signer of the Declaration. All three were slave owners. I am deeply proud of my heritage nor am I apologizing. Except my son, ever male in my fought has served, fought and in a few cases died for this country, so I do not owe anyone anything. I also do not want your thank - thanks for paying your taxes.

So question, when Sherman was doing his March to the Sea and Grant was pounding Vicksburg. They stole cattle and crops; burned farm land; raped a few woman, and destroyed ports and private property. Had I done that going "outside the wire" - that means kitted up and locked and loaded, I would have been in the brig and probably spent the a good chunk of my time there. So why are you giving hall passes to all WP graduates who fought for the North? Both sides had distinguished service in the Indian Wars (we can also have a debate as to whether they took native land - TLD???? you should be on your high horse here). My best is NONE of you have been to Shiprock - it is a Hell Hole that your famous generals gave the Indians. Where is the outrage?????????

Meanwhile, we will go back to regular programming of taking shots at a chopper pilot who had some nuts between his legs.

[a fan]

So question, when Sherman was doing his March to the Sea and Grant was pounding Vicksburg. They stole cattle and crops; burned farm land; raped a few woman, and destroyed ports and private property. Had I done that going "outside the wire" - that means kitted up and locked and loaded, I would have been in the brig and probably spent the a good chunk of my time there. So why are you giving hall passes to all WP graduates who fought for the North? Both sides had distinguished service in the Indian Wars (we can also have a debate as to whether they took native land - TLD???? you should be on your high horse here).

Simple answer to your question, with a question right back.

What if the Confederates had won?

These people fought to dissolve the US of A. As an American that believes in that Constitution....I'm not cool with that. I wouldn't put up memorials to Hitler or Hirohito for the same reason.

You can talk about why the Southerns fault all you like....defending their homes, etc. And I'm sure many were. And I'm sure some even hated slavery.

But the minute you ask: what if they'd won? You bring things into focus really fast. I have no interest in celebrating what they tried to do.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Button Gwinnett (Gwinnett County) is my uncle. Button signed the Declaration of Independence. Macintosh County is named after another uncle. The two drunk Irishmen got into a duel as to who would lead the Georgia militia. Button died and the rest is GA history.

Button was your uncle? I knew you were old, didn't know you were that old.

There was a program on NPR the other day about buttons, and one segment was about Gwinnett. Apparently there are only like 50 signatures of his left in the country. A combination of him dying young in the duel and Sherman burning a lot of Georgia (including old government documents in government buildings). One sold recently for $1.4M. Apparently a lot of the signatures that survived are on IOUs.

[LandM]

The South would have never won the war. I never said they would have won the war. NEVER. Lee went as far as he could North to get the pubic to say, well perhaps this is not what we want to do. He was looking for a settlement/stalemate. The North had the industry, production and economy. The south at that time was agrarian - same argument some of you guys make about the "fly-over states" Lee was never going to win, he wanted a settlement. Gettysburg - another battle that ripped off the local community was an accident - Lee wanted Maryland but he knew he could never take that state over, he was poking the bear.

You did not answer my question about Grant and Sherman - in many peoples mind they are war criminals. If I could still kit up, would you bail me out?

[LandM]

Natty,
Too damn funny - yes - I think there might be a bunch of late, lets in there but yes, he was an uncle

[a fan]

The South would have never won the war. I never said they would have won the war. NEVER. Lee went as far as he could North to get the pubic to say, well perhaps this is not what we want to do. He was looking for a settlement/stalemate. The North had the industry, production and economy. The south at that time was agrarian - same argument some of you guys make about the "fly-over states" Lee was never going to win, he wanted a settlement. Gettysburg - another battle that ripped off the local community was an accident - Lee wanted Maryland but he knew he could never take that state over, he was poking the bear.

You could make the same argument about Germany. Or Japan, for that matter.

Yet we still don't have statues of their leaders or generals in American squares, correct?

You did not answer my question about Grant and Sherman - in many peoples mind they are war criminals.

Fair point. And something folks can argue through. But it's completely different from: I'm trying to destroy America.

[jhu72]

And I do NOT recall you being in favor of changing the base names, I recall you making fun of doing so.

Typical of your partisan blind spot memory. I supported it from the start & suggested how they should be renamed.
I made fun of making a big deal about it, as if it would influence a soldier to enlist or re-enlist.

FTR -- I was all for renaming those bases & suggested they be named after Soldiers who were awarded the Medal of Honor who had some connection to that base,

"from the start"...this was 2018:

User avatarold salt
Posts: 14568
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:44 am
Contact: Contact old salt
Re: Is America a racist nation?
Report Quote
Post by old salt » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:01 pm

Nobody cares about the statues (except the pigeons), until they can be used as a totem to victimhood.

Just like the names of Army bases. Colin Powell said that as a young junior officer, he never gave a thought to the name of the base (or building, or street). He was more concerned about how the locals outside the gate treated him.

The moral judgments, across centuries, & the virtue signalling in this forum are suffocating.

Wait until future generations judge you. I got mine.
Control of Women or Population Control ? ...how many black babies have been aborted ?
Planned Parenthood ? Condoms have always been cheap or free, to prevent std's. Just go see doc in sick bay.

And then in 2020:

Re: The Politics of National Security
• Report
• Quote
Post by old salt » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:06 am

CU77 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:11 pm
The military’s top officer on Thursday described Confederate leaders as traitors and said he is taking a “hard look” at renaming 10 Army installations that honor them, despite President Trump’s opposition to any changes.

“The Confederacy, the American Civil War was fought, and it was an act of rebellion,” the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark A. Milley, told members of the House Armed Services Committee. “It was an act of treason at the time against the Union, against the Stars and Stripes, against the U.S. Constitution, and those officers turned their back on their oath.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ses-trump/

What does this have to do with national security ? Are you expecting the south to rise again ?
You should be trolling the Race Riots thread with this.
Colin Powell said when he was stationed at Ft Benning he didn't worry about who it was named for.
He was more concerned about how he was treated outside the base in GA.

I don't see "support" for renaming.

You were contemptuous, including of General Milley.

c&s & I had a discussion on this in which I recommended they rename the Army bases for soldiers who had distinguished themselves who had some connection with that base or that region. It was before 2020. That's not when the issue was first raised.

I was questioning why it was posted in the national security thread. By 2020, the issue was old news.

It was about the time Brian Williams, on msnbc, had Gen Honore as a guest & recommended Ft Polk in LA be renamed Ft Honore.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/10/strip ... -passions/
For years, the military defended the naming of bases after Confederate officers; as recently as 2015 the Army argued that the names did not honor the rebel cause but were a gesture of reconciliation with the South.

Ft Bragg should be renamed Ft Ridgeway. The logic is plain and simple and General Ridgeway led the 82nd to its legendary status it still holds today. The next prominent feature at Bragg is Longstreet Rd. Gotta get rid of that stain as well. I got skin in the game here. I left a lot of rubber from my combat boots on my travels up and down that road. We use to call it Longhill Rd. It was 7 klicks to the end of Normandy DZ. Uphill in both directions. This is one of those can of worms that is opened up here. James Longstreet is not worthy of having anything named after him, even a road on an army base.
The US Army has already changed the name. Longstreet Rd is now simply Long Rd. One thing has not changed, walking it in full gear is not much fun.

... you mean never having marched by a whorehouse without stopping in??

[PizzaSnake]

Far,
I graduated USAFA 1984 - ring night was 100 days to graduation best I can recall. I wore my ring one time, that night. Contrary to Pizza Snake who I am pretty sure under a different names claimed he was a SEAL - same temperament, same big words and egotistical voice - not all of us are beholden with a ring. I was "forced" to buy my ring as it was shell out $250 or go speak with the Commandant of Cadets and Sup. It was easier to buy the ring which I wore once.

Pizza, admit, you did not have the gas in the tank to go to USNA and you were never a special forces operator. Best advise I ever received, Coach Fisher DeBerry - NEVER BE A BEEN BROTHER - COULDA, SHOULDA, WOULDA.

Far,
You live in Atlanta area I believe. Button Gwinnett (Gwinnett County) is my uncle. Button signed the Declaration of Independence. Macintosh County is named after another uncle. The two drunk Irishmen got into a duel as to who would lead the Georgia militia. Button died and the rest is GA history. My family owned St. Simons; Jekyll and the surrounding area. Another uncle, Edward Rutledge from the South Carolina was the youngest signer of the Declaration. All three were slave owners. I am deeply proud of my heritage nor am I apologizing. Except my son, ever male in my fought has served, fought and in a few cases died for this country, so I do not owe anyone anything. I also do not want your thank - thanks for paying your taxes.

So question, when Sherman was doing his March to the Sea and Grant was pounding Vicksburg. They stole cattle and crops; burned farm land; raped a few woman, and destroyed ports and private property. Had I done that going "outside the wire" - that means kitted up and locked and loaded, I would have been in the brig and probably spent the a good chunk of my time there. So why are you giving hall passes to all WP graduates who fought for the North? Both sides had distinguished service in the Indian Wars (we can also have a debate as to whether they took native land - TLD???? you should be on your high horse here). My best is NONE of you have been to Shiprock - it is a Hell Hole that your famous generals gave the Indians. Where is the outrage?????????

Meanwhile, we will go back to regular programming of taking shots at a chopper pilot who had some nuts between his legs.

FFG, this is the sensitivity I was speaking of re the "ring-knocker" name. The speed and virulence of response makes my point.

LandM, you must be confusing me with some other blowhard. Oh, and fcuk yourself. That plainspoken enough for ya?

By-the-by, know why SEALS have their current mission? 'Cause they were incompetent as divers. The deep-sea divers laughed at their efforts when they had to clean up after them.

[Farfromgeneva]

Far,
I graduated USAFA 1984 - ring night was 100 days to graduation best I can recall. I wore my ring one time, that night. Contrary to Pizza Snake who I am pretty sure under a different names claimed he was a SEAL - same temperament, same big words and egotistical voice - not all of us are beholden with a ring. I was "forced" to buy my ring as it was shell out $250 or go speak with the Commandant of Cadets and Sup. It was easier to buy the ring which I wore once.

Pizza, admit, you did not have the gas in the tank to go to USNA and you were never a special forces operator. Best advise I ever received, Coach Fisher DeBerry - NEVER BE A BEEN BROTHER - COULDA, SHOULDA, WOULDA.

Far,
You live in Atlanta area I believe. Button Gwinnett (Gwinnett County) is my uncle. Button signed the Declaration of Independence. Macintosh County is named after another uncle. The two drunk Irishmen got into a duel as to who would lead the Georgia militia. Button died and the rest is GA history. My family owned St. Simons; Jekyll and the surrounding area. Another uncle, Edward Rutledge from the South Carolina was the youngest signer of the Declaration. All three were slave owners. I am deeply proud of my heritage nor am I apologizing. Except my son, ever male in my fought has served, fought and in a few cases died for this country, so I do not owe anyone anything. I also do not want your thank - thanks for paying your taxes.

So question, when Sherman was doing his March to the Sea and Grant was pounding Vicksburg. They stole cattle and crops; burned farm land; raped a few woman, and destroyed ports and private property. Had I done that going "outside the wire" - that means kitted up and locked and loaded, I would have been in the brig and probably spent the a good chunk of my time there. So why are you giving hall passes to all WP graduates who fought for the North? Both sides had distinguished service in the Indian Wars (we can also have a debate as to whether they took native land - TLD???? you should be on your high horse here). My best is NONE of you have been to Shiprock - it is a Hell Hole that your famous generals gave the Indians. Where is the outrage?????????

Meanwhile, we will go back to regular programming of taking shots at a chopper pilot who had some nuts between his legs.

FFG, this is the sensitivity I was speaking of re the "ring-knocker" name. The speed and virulence of response makes my point.

LandM, you must be confusing me with some other blowhard. Oh, and fcuk yourself. That plainspoken enough for ya?

By-the-by, know why SEALS have their current mission? 'Cause they were incompetent as divers. The deep-sea divers laughed at their efforts when they had to clean up after them.

Yeah I don’t get most of that post and I married into an old southern family with history. I know that the Ga islands referred to are filled with dbags and wanna bes who haven’t earned anything because I was in a social club with many for years called the diplomats and I know the brother of the two who effectively tanked a 100yr old family owned bank called Brand Bank whos as unethical as you can get and developed most of modern Gwinnett Co, particularly around I85 and sugarloaf parkway and the whole county kind of sucks. I go up there occasionally for Swarm
Games and my father in law was an owner of the minor league hockey team that played at the same arena. Not much to brag about with respect to Gwinnett Co in the last 20yrs. Real people around atlanta live inside the perimeter not in the culture devoid crappy suburbs.

Guess it means he comes from money but who cares.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Far,
I graduated USAFA 1984 - ring night was 100 days to graduation best I can recall. I wore my ring one time, that night. Contrary to Pizza Snake who I am pretty sure under a different names claimed he was a SEAL - same temperament, same big words and egotistical voice - not all of us are beholden with a ring. I was "forced" to buy my ring as it was shell out $250 or go speak with the Commandant of Cadets and Sup. It was easier to buy the ring which I wore once.

Pizza, admit, you did not have the gas in the tank to go to USNA and you were never a special forces operator. Best advise I ever received, Coach Fisher DeBerry - NEVER BE A BEEN BROTHER - COULDA, SHOULDA, WOULDA.

Far,
You live in Atlanta area I believe. Button Gwinnett (Gwinnett County) is my uncle. Button signed the Declaration of Independence. Macintosh County is named after another uncle. The two drunk Irishmen got into a duel as to who would lead the Georgia militia. Button died and the rest is GA history. My family owned St. Simons; Jekyll and the surrounding area. Another uncle, Edward Rutledge from the South Carolina was the youngest signer of the Declaration. All three were slave owners. I am deeply proud of my heritage nor am I apologizing. Except my son, ever male in my fought has served, fought and in a few cases died for this country, so I do not owe anyone anything. I also do not want your thank - thanks for paying your taxes.

So question, when Sherman was doing his March to the Sea and Grant was pounding Vicksburg. They stole cattle and crops; burned farm land; raped a few woman, and destroyed ports and private property. Had I done that going "outside the wire" - that means kitted up and locked and loaded, I would have been in the brig and probably spent the a good chunk of my time there. So why are you giving hall passes to all WP graduates who fought for the North? Both sides had distinguished service in the Indian Wars (we can also have a debate as to whether they took native land - TLD???? you should be on your high horse here). My best is NONE of you have been to Shiprock - it is a Hell Hole that your famous generals gave the Indians. Where is the outrage?????????

Meanwhile, we will go back to regular programming of taking shots at a chopper pilot who had some nuts between his legs.

Where you been at?

Yep…just like “Buffalo Bill”.

[LandM]

Pizza,
This was too funny. Too much wine. The priest going to see the Pope is NOT a good idea. Let me guess you and your bro cheer for Drexel?

I am surprised you did not call me the P word - you used it a few posts ago.

You never dived, you probably could not roll your way out of the boat. Dude you are so busted. What depth and what class?

BTW - when you said you played football for GT - was that Georgetown or Georgia Tech? Georgetown is one step above peewee football on the scale. At least Georgia Tech you made it to D1.

[LandM]

TLD - what nads you got? You aint got none - you live off your kid D3 hoops is high school basketball

[Farfromgeneva]

The old people are reliving the glory days.

[Typical Lax Dad]

TLD - what nads you got? You aint got none - you live off your kid D3 hoops is high school basketball

You barking up the wrong tree old feller. Got one headed your way. Will let you know when to be on the lookout. Excellent game this past weekend.

[LandM]

intrigued by which one
FFG - when you are old - you get to have a tad bit of fun

[Farfromgeneva]

intrigued by which one
FFG - when you are old - you get to have a tad bit of fun

I’ve got a 4 handle old enough to feel like life has past me by.

[LandM]

FFG
Every day you are alive is a great day - beats the alternative so I have been told.

Leaving our beach house in Pensacola heading to Telluride - hope everyone has a great 2023!!!!!