Johns Hopkins 2023

[jhu72]

I think excuses are like butts, we all have them and they stink. Both teams had spurts of looking great, and not so great. It is still early! both teams have immense talent and will make pushes down the stretch this season.

... No excuse, some teams play with more or less rest, better/worse physical conditioning, better/worse preparation, more/less talent, etc., manifests during athletic contests. Observations.

[OCanada]

He has a long lasting relationship w the lax team and played in title games as i recall. I read it as more of an execution than strategy issue but he can correct me if i am wrong. Player not coach

Who is “he”?

SteelHop. I was giving the resident Hop lax flack a little context

[primitiveskills]

This whole nonsense about the post-game light condition workouts has me yearning for the halcyon days of the "who is warming up the goaltender" debate.

[a fan]

Wait to you hear about the Final Four, where you have to play for all the marbles on two day's rest....or to help with the math, 3 games in 9 days. Against the best teams in D1.

Seem to remember Hopkins players faring quite well with the 3 games in 9 days format.

... not all games are the same in terms of causing fatigue going into a subsequent game. Hopkins also won an awful lot of those games without having two or three day "rest" practice games during the season. Personally I don't see a need for the games, or an advantage in having them, all else being equal. Now if it is a matter of difficulty in scheduling a team you want to play, that is another matter.

From an outsider's perspective?

Every game against a top team is a chance for your boys to improve. And if you look at this forum, it's pretty obvious that Milliman is on the clock. He doesn't have the time to slowly and gradually improve this team. He needs to get these players and this program better NOW.

Playing UNC instead of (insert creampuff) will get help your players get better, imho. And learn how to deal with a close game in the 4th. And maybe Milliman will learn to play a few more kids, and lengthen the bench. Whole lot of good things come out of playing UNC instead of a creampuff, if you ask me. And I know you didn't ask.

And if it's not obvious, I agree with wgdsr 100%.....I didn't play at the D1 level, but I can tell you that I played both soccer and lacrosse, starting for both programs. I NEVER got tired from having mulitiple games. It was common to play in tournaments where you played two entire soccer games per day for three days straight. Never got gassed because of that. That's what conditioning is for. And I'd like to think that Hopkins conditioning and meal program was just a tad more sophisticated and effective than it was for a soccer or lacrosse team in the 80's.

It's just like wgdsr says...what makes you gassed is sprinting for minutes on end. And it takes just a few minutes to recover. So if you think you saw gassed players in the Hop game? It was because they played too much D for minutes at a time. The fact that they played Saturday had NOTHING to do with it. I really don't think this is an opinion....I lived this. My experience is that practice was more tiring than games, because my coaches INTENTIONALLY made you run gassers...and then put you in practice-game situations to help you learn to make decisions when you're gassed.

I think what Milliman is doing with scheduling is smart. But what do I know? He could have other reasons for these decisions, and I'm just assuming intent, where there isn't any.

[MDlaxfan76]

if i may in the big scheduling debate... at no time in my experience did i get tired legs because of a game played days before. never.

got tired legs when in the course of a game, there was a long or intense run, followed by another run in short order. had i gotten enough time to rest, even several minutes, it was fine regardless of anything. and could do that throughout. recovery needed was minutes, not a week. or days.

practice some days was more intense on legs than games, as example full scrimmage was a team split in 2 (and not a 58 man team), and other stations of work.

when for whatever reason that intragame rest isn't happening, you become very susceptible to mistakes, "laziness", blowbys like you're in cement, etc. this is where a good box coach and depth wins out. these guys are in tremendous shape, but usain bolt couldn't run 2 100 meters in a row. put the olympic finals 3 days after the semis vs a week and it makes no difference whatsoever. the shot clock is forcing your next defensive or offensive rep to be ~60 seconds later. you better have the horses.

I think that's a very good analysis.

It doesn't require a lot to refresh legs mid-game, but too many runs back to back to back will definitely wear down... more 'horses' helps!

I do think heavy leg lifting work makes nearly zero sense without at least 3 days light work after. Frankly, I see no point in such during the season. My son's college team did a heavy leg lift on a Thursday, then a 3 hour bus ride on Sat AM to play that afternoon, taking the opponent lightly ...brutally out ground balled, they lost double OT. Coaching error IMO.

[HopFan16]

It's just like wgdsr says...what makes you gassed is sprinting for minutes on end. And it takes just a few minutes to recover. So if you think you saw gassed players in the Hop game? It was because they played too much D for minutes at a time. The fact that they played Saturday had NOTHING to do with it.

So why did the offensive players look gassed too? Multiple dodgers who were able to get a step in the first half or in the GTown game looked like they were running in mud.

[a fan]

It's just like wgdsr says...what makes you gassed is sprinting for minutes on end. And it takes just a few minutes to recover. So if you think you saw gassed players in the Hop game? It was because they played too much D for minutes at a time. The fact that they played Saturday had NOTHING to do with it.

So why did the offensive players look gassed too? Multiple dodgers who were able to get a step in the first half or in the GTown game looked like they were running in mud.

Better defenders would be my first guess.

I'm just telling you...there is no way...not even a chance..... that D1 athletes with access to world-class training/food regimens in 2023 are gonna be gassed because they played a game three days previous. Zippo.

If this was even a possibility? Do you really think our sport would have been playing the Sat-Mon. Final Four format for all of these years?

[HopFan16]

It's just like wgdsr says...what makes you gassed is sprinting for minutes on end. And it takes just a few minutes to recover. So if you think you saw gassed players in the Hop game? It was because they played too much D for minutes at a time. The fact that they played Saturday had NOTHING to do with it.

So why did the offensive players look gassed too? Multiple dodgers who were able to get a step in the first half or in the GTown game looked like they were running in mud.

Better defenders would be my first guess.

So UNC got better defenders at halftime? Not sure how they were able to make Hop players run slower, but that's quite an ability. What's your second guess?

[a fan]

It's just like wgdsr says...what makes you gassed is sprinting for minutes on end. And it takes just a few minutes to recover. So if you think you saw gassed players in the Hop game? It was because they played too much D for minutes at a time. The fact that they played Saturday had NOTHING to do with it.

So why did the offensive players look gassed too? Multiple dodgers who were able to get a step in the first half or in the GTown game looked like they were running in mud.

Better defenders would be my first guess.

So UNC got better defenders at halftime? Not sure how they were able to make Hop players run slower, but that's quite an ability. What's your second guess?

Made adjustments at halftime.

You're a level-headed guy. Are you seriously telling me that you think that D1 players can't dodge and beat their men in Championship games because they played a game two days previous?

[ohmilax34]

https://laxallstars.com/quint-kessenich ... hip-recap/
This article by Quint Kessenich mentions fatigue for Maryland in last May's final vs. Cornell.

Cornell held the Terps without a goal for the final 26:55 minutes. It was the first time all year Maryland was held to single digits in a lacrosse game. Fatigue became an equalizer. 22 turnovers was atypical. Maryland has never played an “A” level game on short rest.

http://wmucsports.net/maryland-mens-lac ... %EF%BF%BC/
This article has a quote from John Tillman about being tired on Memorial Day.

“I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like Saturday,” Tillman said. “What people don’t get about Monday, we were totally running out of gas.”

[Typical Lax Dad]

It's just like wgdsr says...what makes you gassed is sprinting for minutes on end. And it takes just a few minutes to recover. So if you think you saw gassed players in the Hop game? It was because they played too much D for minutes at a time. The fact that they played Saturday had NOTHING to do with it.

So why did the offensive players look gassed too? Multiple dodgers who were able to get a step in the first half or in the GTown game looked like they were running in mud.

Better defenders would be my first guess.

So UNC got better defenders at halftime? Not sure how they were able to make Hop players run slower, but that's quite an ability. What's your second guess?

Made adjustments at halftime.

You're a level-headed guy. Are you seriously telling me that you think that D1 players can't dodge and beat their men in Championship games because they played a game two days previous?

Yes. Maryland was beat up during the late semifinal game. It took a lot out of them. Cornell played them to a standstill during the mid 3rd quarter to the end of the final game. Cornell wasn’t pushed as hard during their Rutgers game and handled the long delay differently. The late start and ending for Maryland was an issue.

[HopFan16]

It's just like wgdsr says...what makes you gassed is sprinting for minutes on end. And it takes just a few minutes to recover. So if you think you saw gassed players in the Hop game? It was because they played too much D for minutes at a time. The fact that they played Saturday had NOTHING to do with it.

So why did the offensive players look gassed too? Multiple dodgers who were able to get a step in the first half or in the GTown game looked like they were running in mud.

Better defenders would be my first guess.

So UNC got better defenders at halftime? Not sure how they were able to make Hop players run slower, but that's quite an ability. What's your second guess?

Made adjustments at halftime.

You're a level-headed guy. Are you seriously telling me that you think that D1 players can't dodge and beat their men in Championship games because they played a game two days previous?

Made adjustments at halftime to make the other team run slower? I thought you were the "coaching doesn't matter" guy but now suddenly halftime coaching adjustments can make that much of a difference?

Your Championship scenario isn't equivalent because the other team has *also* played a game two days prior. It's more of a level playing field. Although I know Maryland fans have long complained about having to play in the second semi-final.

Like I said the two-day turnaround from an intense game vis a vis the three-day gap from an easy breezy game is more than just "tired legs," which you don't think exists, and that's fine. Injury recovery is part of it. I'd venture a guess that Hop was more banged up coming into the UNC game as a result of the intensity/physicality of the GTown game than UNC was after they coasted in the first half vs. Mercer and then rested starters. The Jays' top SSDM missed some time in the second half against Georgetown. He still played against UNC, but you think he might have wanted another day to recover? Or maybe he'd have been able to close out on a shooter a hair faster? You really think none of this has any impact on play whatsoever?

If John Tillman says it's a factor, I'd listen to him.

[steel_hop]

He has a long lasting relationship w the lax team and played in title games as i recall. I read it as more of an execution than strategy issue but he can correct me if i am wrong. Player not coach

Who is “he”?

SteelHop. I was giving the resident Hop lax flack a little context

I'm pretty sure there was a post this off-season where he stated he worked in the SID.

[a fan]

Yes. Maryland was beat up during the late semifinal game. It took a lot out of them. Cornell played them to a standstill during the mid 3rd quarter to the end of the final game. Cornell wasn’t pushed as hard during their Rutgers game and handled the long delay differently. The late start and ending for Maryland was an issue.

Beat up and injuries is different than tired.

If you guys really think this is a problem...make noise to change the Championship to a week later.

I was never gassed playing a game two days apart. But then, I never had any serious injuries, so there's that if we're going to add injuries to the discussion.

My opinion is that there's a little bit of projection going on here, and that there's a lot more variables to a game than "they played a game two days ago".

2022------Maryland blew out Duke in a laugher in the semis. UVa beat UNC in a nail biter by a goal in a tough game.

Did anyone see this slow down UVa in that awesome 17-16 win?

[wgdsr]

just think how crazy this board would be if hopkins had lost the 4th quarter gb battle 7-11 instead of the other way around. somebody get the scheduling pen out of milliman's hands!

[a fan]

Made adjustments at halftime to make the other team run slower? I thought you were the "coaching doesn't matter" guy but now suddenly halftime coaching adjustments can make that much of a difference?

Ok, that's funny. Well done.

No....I'm saying that in my opinion, you're projecting. If your attack can't dodge in the fourth quarter "because they played a game two days ago", you're never going to win a Championship again. My opinion. And yep, sometimes your team is going to have a tough semi...and your opponent is going to be in a blowout. My opinion is that you'll be fine, but apparently, this is just me.

Injuries are different. For that? More time passed is always good. You're right. And that's a fair point.

Your Championship scenario isn't equivalent because the other team has *also* played a game two days prior.

I thought you said UNC played on Saturday, too. No?

If John Tillman says it's a factor, I'd listen to him.

Then the NCAA coaches and fans should be pushing to move the Championship by a week. Or the semis back a week.

I have no problem with that whatsoever.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yes. Maryland was beat up during the late semifinal game. It took a lot out of them. Cornell played them to a standstill during the mid 3rd quarter to the end of the final game. Cornell wasn’t pushed as hard during their Rutgers game and handled the long delay differently. The late start and ending for Maryland was an issue.

Beat up and injuries is different than tired.

If you guys really think this is a problem...make noise to change the Championship to a week later.

I was never gassed playing a game two days apart. But then, I never had any serious injuries, so there's that if we're going to add injuries to the discussion.

My opinion is that there's a little bit of projection going on here, and that there's a lot more variables to a game than "they played a game two days ago".

2022------Maryland blew out Duke in a laugher in the semis. UVa beat UNC in a nail biter by a goal in a tough game.

Did anyone see this slow down UVa in that awesome 17-16 win?

Not sure it’s a problem but it’s a reality. The idea is that both teams have to turn on a short rest. Lars trains hard or Sundays in season which had UVA better prepared for a short turn. I don’t believe playing on two days rest is a monumental disadvantage but it is a factor and the more strenuous and beat up you are from the prior game, the more impactful it is (more doesn’t necessarily mean huge). Tillman talked about it after the Championship game. Also, I don’t believe Maryland plays many (if any) Tuesday games because the week off allows the team to perform at or close to peak athletic performance.

[a fan]

Not sure it’s a problem but it’s a reality. The idea is that both teams have to turn on a short rest. Lars trains hard or Sundays in season which had UVA better prepared for a short turn. I don’t believe playing on two days rest is a monumental disadvantage but it is a factor and the more strenuous and beat up you are from the prior game, the more impactful it is (more doesn’t necessarily mean huge). Tillman talked about it after the Championship game. Also, I don’t believe Maryland plays many (if any) Tuesday games because the week off allows the team to perform at or close to peak athletic performance.

All fair points.

Good luck to the Jays this Saturday.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://compedgept.com/blog/optimal-rec ... rest-days/

And different article.

Practical Takeaways

The results from this study demonstrate that it takes approximately 48 hours after a match for an athlete to recover from a performance standpoint and up to 72 hours for certain biochemical markers to recover (e.g. CK). These findings are important because they demonstrate that although athletes can regain performance (e.g. CMJ and sprint speed) 48 hours after a match, it does not mean that athletes are fully recovered from a muscle damage standpoint, for example.

Therefore, at certain periods within the season, athletes should be allowed to fully recover, or at very least, strategies should be implemented to speed-up recovery in order to avoid accumulative fatigue. In addition, when working with sports where athletes are exposed to higher volumes during matches, such as rugby (i.e. 80 minutes) and soccer (i.e. 90 minutes), practitioners must be fully aware that the time needed to recover is longer, including how long it takes to fully recover.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not sure it’s a problem but it’s a reality. The idea is that both teams have to turn on a short rest. Lars trains hard or Sundays in season which had UVA better prepared for a short turn. I don’t believe playing on two days rest is a monumental disadvantage but it is a factor and the more strenuous and beat up you are from the prior game, the more impactful it is (more doesn’t necessarily mean huge). Tillman talked about it after the Championship game. Also, I don’t believe Maryland plays many (if any) Tuesday games because the week off allows the team to perform at or close to peak athletic performance.

All fair points.

Good luck to the Jays this Saturday.

Not a big deal. I thought the two teams were pretty even. I believe OSU is going to handle UNC. OSU looks like a men’s league team.