All Things Russia & Ukraine

[Typical Lax Dad]

“The Fallacies of Russia’s Apologists”

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/eur ... 69731/?amp

Explaining what prompted Putin's actions is not rationalization or approval.

Putin & his ilk (in Russia & elsewhere) are not going away & we need to understand & anticipate their malevolent actions.

I know the difference. Who said they were going away? I know what’s really going to make Putin NOT go away….SURRENDERING like you keep suggesting.

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

Uh huh…..Doesn’t change the fact that you are a sympathizer and an apologist. What you try to pass off as objective analysis is betrayed by your history of posting. It is always one direction. Anyone that ALWAYS has one side of an argument, isn’t being objective. Your defense of Putin is consistent with your defense of Trump. You wearing your hat around the house? Enjoy the game. What a throw by Hurts.

[Farfromgeneva]

It would be truly insane for Russia to attack NATO.

Good news. We can bring our tanks back home from Poland again.

It’s insane because of our capacities, and the collective resolve of our allies..

But just because an action would be insane doesn’t mean that it needn’t be deterred by such capacities, indeed quite the opposite.

Which you know, so why say something inane like that?

Bad faith

[Farfromgeneva]

“The Fallacies of Russia’s Apologists”

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/eur ... 69731/?amp

Explaining what prompted Putin's actions is not rationalization or approval.

Putin & his ilk (in Russia & elsewhere) are not going away & we need to understand & anticipate their malevolent actions.

I know the difference. Who said they were going away? I know what’s really going to make Putin NOT go away….SURRENDERING like you keep suggesting.

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

Uh huh…..Doesn’t change the fact that you are a sympathizer and an apologist. What you try to pass off as objective analysis is betrayed by your history of posting. It is always one direction. Anyone that ALWAYS has one side of an argument, isn’t being objective. Your defense of Putin is consistent with your defense of Trump. You wearing your hat around the house? Enjoy the game. What a throw by Hurts.

I liked the hit by Reid early.

[old salt]

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

What makes you think Vlad would settle for just the Donbass and Crimea as "logical borders" even as part of your proposed peace plan?

Because Putin knows he can't take much more territory. He's failed to take any more than he already has & been driven back in some areas. Both sides are now enduring tremendous losses to move the line of control a short distance back & forth, knowing it will be the basis of an eventual negotiated settlement. Both sides know that stalemate is inevitable. They won't admit it, but Putin knows he can't take all of Ukraine. Zelensky knows he can't drive the Russians out of Crimea & their Donbas enclaves. We're still not willing to give Ukraine the weapons they need to drive the Russians out of Donbas completely, let alone to take back Crimea. Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

What makes you think Vlad would settle for just the Donbass and Crimea as "logical borders" even as part of your proposed peace plan?

Because Putin knows he can't take much more territory. He's failed to take any more than he already has & been driven back in some areas. Both sides are now enduring tremendous losses to move the line of control a short distance back & forth, knowing it will be the basis of an eventual negotiated settlement. Both sides know that stalemate is inevitable. They won't admit it, but Putin knows he can't take all of Ukraine. Zelensky knows he can't drive the Russians out of Crimea & their Donbas enclaves. We're still not willing to give Ukraine the weapons they need to drive the Russians out of Donbas completely, let alone to take back Crimea. Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

Who told you this? Are you able to re-enlist?

[DocBarrister]

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

What makes you think Vlad would settle for just the Donbass and Crimea as "logical borders" even as part of your proposed peace plan?

Because Putin knows he can't take much more territory. He's failed to take any more than he already has & been driven back in some areas. Both sides are now enduring tremendous losses to move the line of control a short distance back & forth, knowing it will be the basis of an eventual negotiated settlement. Both sides know that stalemate is inevitable. They won't admit it, but Putin knows he can't take all of Ukraine. Zelensky knows he can't drive the Russians out of Crimea & their Donbas enclaves. We're still not willing to give Ukraine the weapons they need to drive the Russians out of Donbas completely, let alone to take back Crimea. Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

You give Putin more credit than he deserves.

Putin will gladly “sacrifice” another half million of his own troops and hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives if he believes he can gain a little more territory.

Putin would gladly burn and kill all of Ukraine if that were the price of “victory.”

We cannot afford to allow such a man a victory of any kind.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

What makes you think Vlad would settle for just the Donbass and Crimea as "logical borders" even as part of your proposed peace plan?

Because Putin knows he can't take much more territory. He's failed to take any more than he already has & been driven back in some areas. Both sides are now enduring tremendous losses to move the line of control a short distance back & forth, knowing it will be the basis of an eventual negotiated settlement. Both sides know that stalemate is inevitable. They won't admit it, but Putin knows he can't take all of Ukraine. Zelensky knows he can't drive the Russians out of Crimea & their Donbas enclaves. We're still not willing to give Ukraine the weapons they need to drive the Russians out of Donbas completely, let alone to take back Crimea. Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

Who told you this? Are you able to re-enlist?

I think Salty is wrong on both points.

First, if Putin succeeds in securing these territories as Russia, he won’t settle for just these areas, rather he will look for the next vulnerability to exploit, whether militarily or politically. Belarus by annexation perhaps or back to undermining Ukraine’s democracy development..

Second, I think Zelensky correctly believes they can and will drive Russia from their lands. He also knows that failure to do so will likely mean his political credibility will be lost, and likely with it the opening of Ukraine to Russian corruption forces.

This will need to be won on the battlefield, not through an appeasement strategy.

I think the Europeans are far more resolute than Salty predicted, and Vlad had expected, and both are frustrated to have been so wrong…but neither are willing, yet, to admit their error.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

What makes you think Vlad would settle for just the Donbass and Crimea as "logical borders" even as part of your proposed peace plan?

Because Putin knows he can't take much more territory. He's failed to take any more than he already has & been driven back in some areas. Both sides are now enduring tremendous losses to move the line of control a short distance back & forth, knowing it will be the basis of an eventual negotiated settlement. Both sides know that stalemate is inevitable. They won't admit it, but Putin knows he can't take all of Ukraine. Zelensky knows he can't drive the Russians out of Crimea & their Donbas enclaves. We're still not willing to give Ukraine the weapons they need to drive the Russians out of Donbas completely, let alone to take back Crimea. Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

Who told you this? Are you able to re-enlist?

I think Salty is wrong on both points.

First, if Putin succeeds in securing these territories as Russia, he won’t settle for just these areas, rather he will look for the next vulnerability to exploit, whether militarily or politically. Belarus by annexation perhaps or back to undermining Ukraine’s democracy development..

Second, I think Zelensky correctly believes they can and will drive Russia from their lands. He also knows that failure to do so will likely mean his political credibility will be lost, and likely with it the opening of Ukraine to Russian corruption forces.

This will need to be won on the battlefield, not through an appeasement strategy.

I think the Europeans are far more resolute than Salty predicted, and Vlad had expected, and both are frustrated to have been so wrong…but neither are willing, yet, to admit their error.

Would love to hear Old Salt and Putin’s phone calls to each other.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

I thought you said all of Ukraine was ethnically Russian? And the Baltics too...

What you say about donors, inventory, inflation, energy & food shortages also applies even more so inside of Russia vs. outside. There are only so many donors who can fall out of windows and surrender their fortunes.

[DocBarrister]

Up to a million Russians may have already fled Putin’s Russia.

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war has set off a historic exodus of his own people. Initial data show that at least 500,000, and perhaps nearly 1 million, have left in the year since the invasion began — a tidal wave on scale with emigration following the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution and the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991.



Now, like then, the departures stand to redefine the country for generations. And the flood may still be in its early stages. The war seems nowhere near finished. Any new conscription effort by the Kremlin will spark new departures, as will worsening economic conditions, which are expected as the conflict drags on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... r-ukraine/

Putin is destroying Russia while he wages a malignant war against Ukraine. In time, Putin will be remembered as one of the worst leaders in Russian history.

DocBarrister

[Farfromgeneva]

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

What makes you think Vlad would settle for just the Donbass and Crimea as "logical borders" even as part of your proposed peace plan?

Because Putin knows he can't take much more territory. He's failed to take any more than he already has & been driven back in some areas. Both sides are now enduring tremendous losses to move the line of control a short distance back & forth, knowing it will be the basis of an eventual negotiated settlement. Both sides know that stalemate is inevitable. They won't admit it, but Putin knows he can't take all of Ukraine. Zelensky knows he can't drive the Russians out of Crimea & their Donbas enclaves. We're still not willing to give Ukraine the weapons they need to drive the Russians out of Donbas completely, let alone to take back Crimea. Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

Who told you this? Are you able to re-enlist?

I think Salty is wrong on both points.

First, if Putin succeeds in securing these territories as Russia, he won’t settle for just these areas, rather he will look for the next vulnerability to exploit, whether militarily or politically. Belarus by annexation perhaps or back to undermining Ukraine’s democracy development..

Second, I think Zelensky correctly believes they can and will drive Russia from their lands. He also knows that failure to do so will likely mean his political credibility will be lost, and likely with it the opening of Ukraine to Russian corruption forces.

This will need to be won on the battlefield, not through an appeasement strategy.

I think the Europeans are far more resolute than Salty predicted, and Vlad had expected, and both are frustrated to have been so wrong…but neither are willing, yet, to admit their error.

Would love to hear Old Salt and Putin’s phone calls to each other.

Get the body oils and candles out

[Farfromgeneva]

Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

I thought you said all of Ukraine was ethnically Russian? And the Baltics too...

What you say about donors, inventory, inflation, energy & food shortages also applies even more so inside of Russia vs. outside. There are only so many donors who can fall out of windows and surrender their fortunes.

This was in the news just last week. I’m sure some will call it fake MSM or whatnot but they’re wrong.

Russia's budget deficit explodes as latest sanctions bite

Matt Phillips
Russia's budget deficit widened sharply in January, as the latest sanctions on Russia's energy exports — and the mounting expense of its brutal war on Ukraine — may be starting to erode the Kremlin's heavily fortified finances.

Why it matters: Since Russia's invasion nearly a year ago, Western officials warned that it would take time for the full impact of sanctions to be felt in Moscow. That moment could be drawing closer.

Driving the news: Russia's Ministry of Finance reported that its budget deficit for January exploded to 1.8 trillion rubles — or around $25 billion — up roughly 14 times from last January's deficit of roughly $2 billion.

Oil and gas revenues dropped 46% from January 2021 levels.
Military spending drove government outlays up 59%, according to the Wall Street Journal.
What they're saying: Janis Kluge, an expert on Russian state finances with German Institute for International and Security Affairs, wrote on Twitter that the deficit is "highly unusual and points to a larger deficit for the full year."

The big picture: The report suggests that recent Western efforts to tighten the screws on Russia may be bearing fruit.

In December, Europe moved to fully ban Russian imports of crude oil, in response to the invasion.
The G7 also imposed a price cap on Russian oil, which it's enforcing through its leverage over the maritime insurance industry.
Russia has also been forced to reroute crude shipments to countries such as India and China, who have been big buyers, but at discounted prices.
Yes, but: Russia isn't anywhere near being out of money. Vladimir Putin has focused for years on building up the country's financial defenses, which remain formidable.

They include Russia's national wealth fund, a kind of rainy day fund comprised of money from oil and gas revenues that have been socked away.
The finance ministry announced on Monday that it has roughly $155 billion in the fund, or about 7% of GDP, according to Reuters, that it can use to help cover deficits.
The bottom line: The financial pressure on Russia appears to be building.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

What makes you think Vlad would settle for just the Donbass and Crimea as "logical borders" even as part of your proposed peace plan?

Because Putin knows he can't take much more territory. He's failed to take any more than he already has & been driven back in some areas. Both sides are now enduring tremendous losses to move the line of control a short distance back & forth, knowing it will be the basis of an eventual negotiated settlement. Both sides know that stalemate is inevitable. They won't admit it, but Putin knows he can't take all of Ukraine. Zelensky knows he can't drive the Russians out of Crimea & their Donbas enclaves. We're still not willing to give Ukraine the weapons they need to drive the Russians out of Donbas completely, let alone to take back Crimea. Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

Who told you this? Are you able to re-enlist?

I think Salty is wrong on both points.

First, if Putin succeeds in securing these territories as Russia, he won’t settle for just these areas, rather he will look for the next vulnerability to exploit, whether militarily or politically. Belarus by annexation perhaps or back to undermining Ukraine’s democracy development..

Second, I think Zelensky correctly believes they can and will drive Russia from their lands. He also knows that failure to do so will likely mean his political credibility will be lost, and likely with it the opening of Ukraine to Russian corruption forces.

This will need to be won on the battlefield, not through an appeasement strategy.

I think the Europeans are far more resolute than Salty predicted, and Vlad had expected, and both are frustrated to have been so wrong…but neither are willing, yet, to admit their error.

Would love to hear Old Salt and Putin’s phone calls to each other.

Get the body oils and candles out

Your original link…

[Farfromgeneva]

Putin may not go away but it would provide Ukraine time to recover & rearm sufficiently to deter further invasion, especially if Crimea & the occupied part of the Donbas were secure as part of Russia. Then there'd be logical, defensible borders. Other issues could be resolved via negotiations & a peace treaty. The war has to eventually end with diplomacy & peace negotiations

What makes you think Vlad would settle for just the Donbass and Crimea as "logical borders" even as part of your proposed peace plan?

Because Putin knows he can't take much more territory. He's failed to take any more than he already has & been driven back in some areas. Both sides are now enduring tremendous losses to move the line of control a short distance back & forth, knowing it will be the basis of an eventual negotiated settlement. Both sides know that stalemate is inevitable. They won't admit it, but Putin knows he can't take all of Ukraine. Zelensky knows he can't drive the Russians out of Crimea & their Donbas enclaves. We're still not willing to give Ukraine the weapons they need to drive the Russians out of Donbas completely, let alone to take back Crimea. Putin can claim victory at home because he's secured Crimea & the ethnic Russian portion of the Donbas. The patience of the donor nations is not infinite. They're depleting their own military inventory & feeling the impact of inflation, the energy & food shortages & the burden of displaced Ukrainian refugees.

Who told you this? Are you able to re-enlist?

I think Salty is wrong on both points.

First, if Putin succeeds in securing these territories as Russia, he won’t settle for just these areas, rather he will look for the next vulnerability to exploit, whether militarily or politically. Belarus by annexation perhaps or back to undermining Ukraine’s democracy development..

Second, I think Zelensky correctly believes they can and will drive Russia from their lands. He also knows that failure to do so will likely mean his political credibility will be lost, and likely with it the opening of Ukraine to Russian corruption forces.

This will need to be won on the battlefield, not through an appeasement strategy.

I think the Europeans are far more resolute than Salty predicted, and Vlad had expected, and both are frustrated to have been so wrong…but neither are willing, yet, to admit their error.

Would love to hear Old Salt and Putin’s phone calls to each other.

Get the body oils and candles out

Your original link…

You know me so well! That crossed my mind when I was posting what I did.

[PizzaSnake]

Well, so much for OS’s trip…

“The U.S. on Monday issued a top-level advisory telling American citizens to leave Russia immediately and cease travel to the country as Russia’s war against neighboring Ukraine continues, citing risks of harassment and wrongful detention for Americans specifically.

“Do not travel to Russia due to the unpredictable consequences of the unprovoked full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russian military forces, the potential for harassment and the singling out of U.S. citizens for detention by Russian government security officials, the arbitrary enforcement of local law, limited flights into and out of Russia, the Embassy’s limited ability to assist U.S. citizens in Russia, and the possibility of terrorism,” reads the alert. ”

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... ately/amp/

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well, so much for OS’s trip…

“The U.S. on Monday issued a top-level advisory telling American citizens to leave Russia immediately and cease travel to the country as Russia’s war against neighboring Ukraine continues, citing risks of harassment and wrongful detention for Americans specifically.

“Do not travel to Russia due to the unpredictable consequences of the unprovoked full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russian military forces, the potential for harassment and the singling out of U.S. citizens for detention by Russian government security officials, the arbitrary enforcement of local law, limited flights into and out of Russia, the Embassy’s limited ability to assist U.S. citizens in Russia, and the possibility of terrorism,” reads the alert. ”

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... ately/amp/

The USA provoked Russia.

[a fan]

Crimea & the Donbas are pert of Ukraine.

And Texas is part of America. Irrelevant to the conversation.

Putin didn't invade Ukraine, and you can't explain why...and that's because your explanation as to why Putin did what he did are plainly wrong.

When America left Ukraine alone militarily, Putin did nothing. The threat of them joining NATO has been around since Bush....and yet Putin did nothing. It was only when America started arming Ukraine that Putin finally acted. He knows that if he wanted to take Ukraine, that window/option was closing for him, as more and more arms came to Ukraine.

So when you say:

^^^ that aid had not been sent yet. It was assembled as a last minute bargaining chip, after Putin began massing his invaasion force on the border.

Use your head. Putin is now dealing with a second President that's willing to send more military aid and training to Ukraine. And naturally, because you're SO DESPERATE to not be proven wrong-----you're telling me that the arms that Trump and Biden sent, sent absolutely zero information to Putin. You turn into a five year old who doesn't want to admit to mommy that you ate a cookie when she wasn't looking.

OF COURSE the arming of Ukraine is what set this whole thing off. And by YOUR insistence? You're telling me that Trump's aid and training is what stopped the Russian Army cold.

And Biden was signaling to Putin that more arms were coming. Are you HONESTLY pretending you are too dumb to understand what information Putin got from that? That at some point, he'd be unable to invade Ukraine, because they were armed to the teeth? And more and more American intervention was arriving? So what did Putin do? Made the choice to invade before that choice was off the table.

You can even blame a little D for this, which should make you REALLY happy: Biden's last offered military package for Ukraine was the very last straw. It demonstrated that America would keep arming Ukraine until Putin couldn't invade.

So Putin pulled the trigger.

[MDlaxfan76]

Putin "pulled the trigger" on Georgia in 2008.
As he did so, he made the case for his plan to recreate the Russian Empire...he told the West what he was going to do...
In 2014, he took Crimea, and funded the opposition to democracy in Donbas, etc, and throughout Ukraine for that matter.

I don't think either action was because the West was threatening Russia's sovereignty much less existence.

Nor do I think Obama's support for sanctions precipitated further action, nor Trump's green lighting of javelins (useful, but obviously not a deterrent to invasion), but Ukraine's resolve away from Russia and the West did matter, as Putin doesn't care about military use, if political de facto annexation is sufficient. Trump sought to undermine, likely witlessly, the Zelensky government, but Ukraine fought Russian proxies to a standstill, without significant help from the West...a resolve that Putin hadn't expected.

Trump provided Putin with some hope of NATO deterioration and discord, all the while working the anti-democratic forces throughout eastern Europe and even within NATO countries (including the US).

But when Trump lost and it was clear that window of opportunity for Russian expansion was closed for now, Putin grew impatient.

But it's always been about recreating the Russian Empire and that core objective will not go away with any 'truce' or 'accord', all of which will only bolster confidence in the ultranationalists in Russia that the West is weak and feckless.

They're going to have to lose on the battlefield.

[a fan]

Putin "pulled the trigger" on Georgia in 2008.
As he did so, he made the case for his plan to recreate the Russian Empire...he told the West what he was going to do...
In 2014, he took Crimea, and funded the opposition to democracy in Donbas, etc, and throughout Ukraine for that matter.

I don't think either action was because the West was threatening Russia's sovereignty much less existence.

Nor do I think Obama's support for sanctions precipitated further action, nor Trump's green lighting of javelins (useful, but obviously not a deterrent to invasion), but Ukraine's resolve away from Russia and the West did matter, as Putin doesn't care about military use, if political de facto annexation is sufficient. Trump sought to undermine, likely witlessly, the Zelensky government, but Ukraine fought Russian proxies to a standstill, without significant help from the West...a resolve that Putin hadn't expected.

Trump provided Putin with some hope of NATO deterioration and discord, all the while working the anti-democratic forces throughout eastern Europe and even within NATO countries (including the US).

But when Trump lost and it was clear that window of opportunity for Russian expansion was closed for now, Putin grew impatient.

But it's always been about recreating the Russian Empire and that core objective will not go away with any 'truce' or 'accord', all of which will only bolster confidence in the ultranationalists in Russia that the West is weak and feckless.

They're going to have to lose on the battlefield.

If all of this was true? Putin would have marched to Kiev while he had a guy on the inside, way back in 2008. Or again in 2014, while the tank engines were warm.

He didn't do that. And none of you have come up with a plausible reason as to why he didn't simply take what he wanted (Ukraine) while the getting was good.

It was the threat of removing the option to invade Ukraine that prompted him to act.

OS asked me to think like a Russian. I did. This is where that leads. If Putin thought he "owned" Ukraine, he had easy chances to take an unarmed populace, all the way until 2019, when Trump started arming and training said populace.

He did nothing. You can't ignore this fact.

[PizzaSnake]

Exodus, Movement of Jah people
.
.
.
Yeah-yeah-yeah, well!
Uh! Open your eyes (And look within)
Are you satisfied? (With the life you're livin'?) Uh!
We know where we're goin', uh!
We know where we're from
We're leavin' Mother Russia
We're goin' to anywhere else

"As Russian troops stormed into Ukraine last February, sending millions of Ukrainians fleeing for their lives, thousands of other Russians raced to pack their bags and leave home, fearing the Kremlin would shut the borders and impose martial law.

Some had long opposed rising authoritarianism, and the invasion was a last straw. Others were driven by economic interest, to preserve livelihoods or escape the bite of sanctions. Then, last autumn, a military mobilization spurred hundreds of thousands of men to run.

Honestly, who fcuking cares about the men? It's the women and children that count, demographically speaking. And Russia's asz is in a demographic crack...

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war has set off a historic exodus of his own people. Initial data shows that at least 500,000, and perhaps nearly 1 million, have left in the year since the invasion began — a tidal wave on scale with emigration following the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution and the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991.

Now, as then, the departures stand to redefine the country for generations. And the flood may still be in its early stages. The war seems nowhere near finished. Any new conscription effort by the Kremlin will spark new departures, as will worsening economic conditions, which are expected as the conflict drags on.

The huge outflow has swelled existing Russian expatriate communities across the world, and created new ones."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... r-ukraine/