Sensible Gun Safety

[cradleandshoot]

What could go wrong? Another reason to avoid Florida:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politic ... story.html

“Calling the right to bear arms “central to our freedom,” House Speaker Paul Renner on Monday unveiled a bill removing Florida requirements for a permit and training to carry concealed guns, an idea endorsed by Gov. Ron DeSantis.

“Florida led the nation in concealed carry,” said Renner, surrounded by the bill’s House and Senate sponsors and Florida sheriffs, and now it is time for the state to remove that “government permission slip to carry.”

The legislation, which supporters call “constitutional carry,” would eliminate the need to get a license to carry a concealed weapon as well as the required weapons training that goes with it. If signed into law, as expected, Florida would become the 26th state to allow permitless carry.

Newly reelected by a landslide to a second term, DeSantis has said he wants to see permitless carry the law of Florida before he leaves office.“

The stupidity knows no bounds...

But will this include concealed carry be allowed everywhere, including, say, courts and legislative assemblies? How about in front of the governor's residence? Oh, and how about on Federal installations? That could be fun. Or say, felons?

I have a bad feeling about things as the insanity rises. And to be fair, it's everywhere, although some areas (FL) seem to be particularly afflicted.

It truly is weird.

It's as if there's this race to the bottom of the barrel, the worst of the worst ideas.

I think the only lesson here is that Desantis is advocating legislation that appeals to a base for a future primary. There is nothing quite like permitless carry to burnish that Second Amendment resume for the ardent crazies who effectively run the GOP primaries. This is about politics, not public safety.

yes, that's the motivation of 'worst of the worst ideas'.

Isn't that the exact same motivation NYS Gov Hochul is using??? They are on different ends of the spectrum mind you but the objective is the same. One Governor wants no handgun restrictions. The other governor wants to ignore the rights of those with concealed carry permits who have jumped through every hurdle put in front of them.

I don't think you are characterizing Hochul's objectives the way I would.

I know you are understandably concerned about criminals carrying guns, people with bad intentions carrying guns, and understand that they would want to "conceal" that until they use them...right?

And that you are concerned about public safety in general, right?

Would you not agree that there are places, especially places with high density, that are particularly vulnerable targets for a mass attack? So, where "public safety" is at highest risk?

grocery stores, places of worship, stadiums, schools, airports...or are potential political targets, eg government buildings?

Are these not places where citizens would be understandably alarmed to see someone surreptitiously carrying a gun, not knowing whether it was a permitted concealed carry or someone with bad intent?

Is this really an intent by Hochul to restrict "rights" or this just an emphasis on maintaining public safety in vulnerable spaces?

I think the latter.

I don't think she's trying to pander to a base primary voter, I think she's just trying to combat rampant gun violence. Are there better things to do? Open to debate. But I think that's her intent, well within her responsibility as Governor to maintain public safety.

I think DeSantis' eyes are not on public safety nor "rights" but rather on a national primary voting base which is demanding demonstrations of extremism. The uglier the better in the eyes of these extremists.

In contrast, Hochul does not appear to have national ambitions, nor does she appear to be worried about the primary base of her party as an incumbent.

Then what is the point in jumping through all the hoops to get a concealed carry permit?? With all do respect your feeding me a huge line of bullchit. All of the places Gov Hochul names as " sensitive locations" surprisingly happen to be the same places the bad guys with guns show up to shoot people. Isn't the entire god damn point for carrying a concealed weapon ... WITH A PERMIT is to defend yourself if you happen to be in one of those "sensitive locations" where the bad guy/gal with a gun knows you can't bring your legally obtained and understands being a law abiding citizen you will respect the law. What the eff is the point MD??? You jump through all of the hoops so you won't be a defenseless victim. You now are advocating screw your concealed carry permit... WELL THEN... WHY ARE YOU JUMPING THROUGH ALL OF THE HOOPS in the first place. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Ohh, I understand why someone could want to carry a concealed weapon, lawfully, any place they want...but as a fellow citizen I darn well don't want them to do so. I want only law enforcement carrying weapons in those places. I want trained, managed, law enforcement to handle it, not some wannabe.

I want it to be automatically illegal to have a weapon in those places, not a question mark as to whether the 'carry' was going to be lawful, no improper usage....or something else.

Got a gun in those situations, you've committed a crime. It's an additional crime if the gun is illegally held as well.

Frankly, I don't have much truck with the notion that everyone should be able to carry a gun, wherever, whenever... 'cause it's in the Constitution, man'. I think there's reasonable times and places for gun usage and storage, and I've outlined those views numerous times. My views, IMO, are entirely consistent with both the words and the actual intent of the 2nd Amendment.

Now, if the 'carry permit' process is indeed super rigorous, only for those with truly legitimate need and purpose, with plenty of analysis of mental status on an ongoing basis, one could at least make an argument for less restriction on where and when...but that just ain't the case, even in NY. Too easy.

Better to just say, no, there are places where you can't 'carry'. That's for law enforcement.

I disagree with your premise 100%. I would not carry a concealed weapon myself. If your argument is to hold water then what is the point of issuing concealed carry permits? The carry process in NYS should be the gold standard everywhere. That is the way it should be. When you pay your money and jump through all of the hoops and you successfully complete the process to then be told you can't carry the weapon in all public places you may one day need it... Kinda like going duck hunting only to be told you can't bring your shotgun into the blind, you have to leave it in your truck. You might be a hazard to other people nearby. I do understand your point. If your point is to be valid then the first step is revoking concealed carry. How do you think that will go over with lawful gun owners?

[MDlaxfan76]

What could go wrong? Another reason to avoid Florida:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politic ... story.html

“Calling the right to bear arms “central to our freedom,” House Speaker Paul Renner on Monday unveiled a bill removing Florida requirements for a permit and training to carry concealed guns, an idea endorsed by Gov. Ron DeSantis.

“Florida led the nation in concealed carry,” said Renner, surrounded by the bill’s House and Senate sponsors and Florida sheriffs, and now it is time for the state to remove that “government permission slip to carry.”

The legislation, which supporters call “constitutional carry,” would eliminate the need to get a license to carry a concealed weapon as well as the required weapons training that goes with it. If signed into law, as expected, Florida would become the 26th state to allow permitless carry.

Newly reelected by a landslide to a second term, DeSantis has said he wants to see permitless carry the law of Florida before he leaves office.“

The stupidity knows no bounds...

But will this include concealed carry be allowed everywhere, including, say, courts and legislative assemblies? How about in front of the governor's residence? Oh, and how about on Federal installations? That could be fun. Or say, felons?

I have a bad feeling about things as the insanity rises. And to be fair, it's everywhere, although some areas (FL) seem to be particularly afflicted.

It truly is weird.

It's as if there's this race to the bottom of the barrel, the worst of the worst ideas.

I think the only lesson here is that Desantis is advocating legislation that appeals to a base for a future primary. There is nothing quite like permitless carry to burnish that Second Amendment resume for the ardent crazies who effectively run the GOP primaries. This is about politics, not public safety.

yes, that's the motivation of 'worst of the worst ideas'.

Isn't that the exact same motivation NYS Gov Hochul is using??? They are on different ends of the spectrum mind you but the objective is the same. One Governor wants no handgun restrictions. The other governor wants to ignore the rights of those with concealed carry permits who have jumped through every hurdle put in front of them.

I don't think you are characterizing Hochul's objectives the way I would.

I know you are understandably concerned about criminals carrying guns, people with bad intentions carrying guns, and understand that they would want to "conceal" that until they use them...right?

And that you are concerned about public safety in general, right?

Would you not agree that there are places, especially places with high density, that are particularly vulnerable targets for a mass attack? So, where "public safety" is at highest risk?

grocery stores, places of worship, stadiums, schools, airports...or are potential political targets, eg government buildings?

Are these not places where citizens would be understandably alarmed to see someone surreptitiously carrying a gun, not knowing whether it was a permitted concealed carry or someone with bad intent?

Is this really an intent by Hochul to restrict "rights" or this just an emphasis on maintaining public safety in vulnerable spaces?

I think the latter.

I don't think she's trying to pander to a base primary voter, I think she's just trying to combat rampant gun violence. Are there better things to do? Open to debate. But I think that's her intent, well within her responsibility as Governor to maintain public safety.

I think DeSantis' eyes are not on public safety nor "rights" but rather on a national primary voting base which is demanding demonstrations of extremism. The uglier the better in the eyes of these extremists.

In contrast, Hochul does not appear to have national ambitions, nor does she appear to be worried about the primary base of her party as an incumbent.

Then what is the point in jumping through all the hoops to get a concealed carry permit?? With all do respect your feeding me a huge line of bullchit. All of the places Gov Hochul names as " sensitive locations" surprisingly happen to be the same places the bad guys with guns show up to shoot people. Isn't the entire god damn point for carrying a concealed weapon ... WITH A PERMIT is to defend yourself if you happen to be in one of those "sensitive locations" where the bad guy/gal with a gun knows you can't bring your legally obtained and understands being a law abiding citizen you will respect the law. What the eff is the point MD??? You jump through all of the hoops so you won't be a defenseless victim. You now are advocating screw your concealed carry permit... WELL THEN... WHY ARE YOU JUMPING THROUGH ALL OF THE HOOPS in the first place. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Ohh, I understand why someone could want to carry a concealed weapon, lawfully, any place they want...but as a fellow citizen I darn well don't want them to do so. I want only law enforcement carrying weapons in those places. I want trained, managed, law enforcement to handle it, not some wannabe.

I want it to be automatically illegal to have a weapon in those places, not a question mark as to whether the 'carry' was going to be lawful, no improper usage....or something else.

Got a gun in those situations, you've committed a crime. It's an additional crime if the gun is illegally held as well.

Frankly, I don't have much truck with the notion that everyone should be able to carry a gun, wherever, whenever... 'cause it's in the Constitution, man'. I think there's reasonable times and places for gun usage and storage, and I've outlined those views numerous times. My views, IMO, are entirely consistent with both the words and the actual intent of the 2nd Amendment.

Now, if the 'carry permit' process is indeed super rigorous, only for those with truly legitimate need and purpose, with plenty of analysis of mental status on an ongoing basis, one could at least make an argument for less restriction on where and when...but that just ain't the case, even in NY. Too easy.

Better to just say, no, there are places where you can't 'carry'. That's for law enforcement.

I disagree with your premise 100%. I would not carry a concealed weapon myself. If your argument is to hold water then what is the point of issuing concealed carry permits? The carry process in NYS should be the gold standard everywhere. That is the way it should be. When you pay your money and jump through all of the hoops and you successfully complete the process to then be told you can't carry the weapon in all public places you may one day need it... Kinda like going duck hunting only to be told you can't bring your shotgun into the blind, you have to leave it in your truck. You might be a hazard to other people nearby. I do understand your point. If your point is to be valid then the first step is revoking concealed carry. How do you think that will go over with lawful gun owners?

You make a fair argument, though we come to different conclusions.

Yes, I would make it much harder to obtain "concealed carry" licenses and to maintain them than what NY State actually does, and more importantly has in the past done.

There are about 200,000 people in New York State with concealed carry permits, most before the "good moral character" clause was added to the law.

And nearly 10,000 rushed to get a permit before that clause went into effect.https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/th ... es-effect/

Now, if each of those permits required annual renewal, with actual review of 'moral character', including review of social media accounts, and an actual review of mental health status by professionals, and the decisions as to who to approve weren't being made by local elected officials (too easy to approve a buddy), as well as demonstrated need...ok....but what do you want to bet that there'd be a heck of a lot fewer people actually approved?

Yes, a bunch of gun owners wouldn't like it.

[cradleandshoot]

What could go wrong? Another reason to avoid Florida:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politic ... story.html

“Calling the right to bear arms “central to our freedom,” House Speaker Paul Renner on Monday unveiled a bill removing Florida requirements for a permit and training to carry concealed guns, an idea endorsed by Gov. Ron DeSantis.

“Florida led the nation in concealed carry,” said Renner, surrounded by the bill’s House and Senate sponsors and Florida sheriffs, and now it is time for the state to remove that “government permission slip to carry.”

The legislation, which supporters call “constitutional carry,” would eliminate the need to get a license to carry a concealed weapon as well as the required weapons training that goes with it. If signed into law, as expected, Florida would become the 26th state to allow permitless carry.

Newly reelected by a landslide to a second term, DeSantis has said he wants to see permitless carry the law of Florida before he leaves office.“

The stupidity knows no bounds...

But will this include concealed carry be allowed everywhere, including, say, courts and legislative assemblies? How about in front of the governor's residence? Oh, and how about on Federal installations? That could be fun. Or say, felons?

I have a bad feeling about things as the insanity rises. And to be fair, it's everywhere, although some areas (FL) seem to be particularly afflicted.

It truly is weird.

It's as if there's this race to the bottom of the barrel, the worst of the worst ideas.

I think the only lesson here is that Desantis is advocating legislation that appeals to a base for a future primary. There is nothing quite like permitless carry to burnish that Second Amendment resume for the ardent crazies who effectively run the GOP primaries. This is about politics, not public safety.

yes, that's the motivation of 'worst of the worst ideas'.

Isn't that the exact same motivation NYS Gov Hochul is using??? They are on different ends of the spectrum mind you but the objective is the same. One Governor wants no handgun restrictions. The other governor wants to ignore the rights of those with concealed carry permits who have jumped through every hurdle put in front of them.

I don't think you are characterizing Hochul's objectives the way I would.

I know you are understandably concerned about criminals carrying guns, people with bad intentions carrying guns, and understand that they would want to "conceal" that until they use them...right?

And that you are concerned about public safety in general, right?

Would you not agree that there are places, especially places with high density, that are particularly vulnerable targets for a mass attack? So, where "public safety" is at highest risk?

grocery stores, places of worship, stadiums, schools, airports...or are potential political targets, eg government buildings?

Are these not places where citizens would be understandably alarmed to see someone surreptitiously carrying a gun, not knowing whether it was a permitted concealed carry or someone with bad intent?

Is this really an intent by Hochul to restrict "rights" or this just an emphasis on maintaining public safety in vulnerable spaces?

I think the latter.

I don't think she's trying to pander to a base primary voter, I think she's just trying to combat rampant gun violence. Are there better things to do? Open to debate. But I think that's her intent, well within her responsibility as Governor to maintain public safety.

I think DeSantis' eyes are not on public safety nor "rights" but rather on a national primary voting base which is demanding demonstrations of extremism. The uglier the better in the eyes of these extremists.

In contrast, Hochul does not appear to have national ambitions, nor does she appear to be worried about the primary base of her party as an incumbent.

Then what is the point in jumping through all the hoops to get a concealed carry permit?? With all do respect your feeding me a huge line of bullchit. All of the places Gov Hochul names as " sensitive locations" surprisingly happen to be the same places the bad guys with guns show up to shoot people. Isn't the entire god damn point for carrying a concealed weapon ... WITH A PERMIT is to defend yourself if you happen to be in one of those "sensitive locations" where the bad guy/gal with a gun knows you can't bring your legally obtained and understands being a law abiding citizen you will respect the law. What the eff is the point MD??? You jump through all of the hoops so you won't be a defenseless victim. You now are advocating screw your concealed carry permit... WELL THEN... WHY ARE YOU JUMPING THROUGH ALL OF THE HOOPS in the first place. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Ohh, I understand why someone could want to carry a concealed weapon, lawfully, any place they want...but as a fellow citizen I darn well don't want them to do so. I want only law enforcement carrying weapons in those places. I want trained, managed, law enforcement to handle it, not some wannabe.

I want it to be automatically illegal to have a weapon in those places, not a question mark as to whether the 'carry' was going to be lawful, no improper usage....or something else.

Got a gun in those situations, you've committed a crime. It's an additional crime if the gun is illegally held as well.

Frankly, I don't have much truck with the notion that everyone should be able to carry a gun, wherever, whenever... 'cause it's in the Constitution, man'. I think there's reasonable times and places for gun usage and storage, and I've outlined those views numerous times. My views, IMO, are entirely consistent with both the words and the actual intent of the 2nd Amendment.

Now, if the 'carry permit' process is indeed super rigorous, only for those with truly legitimate need and purpose, with plenty of analysis of mental status on an ongoing basis, one could at least make an argument for less restriction on where and when...but that just ain't the case, even in NY. Too easy.

Better to just say, no, there are places where you can't 'carry'. That's for law enforcement.

I disagree with your premise 100%. I would not carry a concealed weapon myself. If your argument is to hold water then what is the point of issuing concealed carry permits? The carry process in NYS should be the gold standard everywhere. That is the way it should be. When you pay your money and jump through all of the hoops and you successfully complete the process to then be told you can't carry the weapon in all public places you may one day need it... Kinda like going duck hunting only to be told you can't bring your shotgun into the blind, you have to leave it in your truck. You might be a hazard to other people nearby. I do understand your point. If your point is to be valid then the first step is revoking concealed carry. How do you think that will go over with lawful gun owners?

You make a fair argument, though we come to different conclusions.

Yes, I would make it much harder to obtain "concealed carry" licenses and to maintain them than what NY State actually does, and more importantly has in the past done.

There are about 200,000 people in New York State with concealed carry permits, most before the "good moral character" clause was added to the law.

And nearly 10,000 rushed to get a permit before that clause went into effect.https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/th ... es-effect/

Now, if each of those permits required annual renewal, with actual review of 'moral character', including review of social media accounts, and an actual review of mental health status by professionals, and the decisions as to who to approve weren't being made by local elected officials (too easy to approve a buddy), as well as demonstrated need...ok....but what do you want to bet that there'd be a heck of a lot fewer people actually approved?

Yes, a bunch of gun owners wouldn't like it.

It becomes a conundrum my son who is a federal agent says quite frequently. He always his weapon with him when he is out shopping with his kids or just going to Home Depot. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. If the point of going through all the elaborate steps to get a concealed carry only to then be told good for you but you can't bring it in 95 % of the places you go to where you think you may need it.... better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I do believe the process to receive a concealed carry permit in NYS takes about a year or so. The local sheriffs office has to approve your paperwork, photograph you, take your fingerprints, do the background check and the decision goes to a judge to decide. I don't know what the truck RD is proposing in Florida. It sounds more like the wild west than anything else. If every nimrod that owns a handgun starts taking it with them everywhere it will not end well. The right to a concealed carry permit should be hard, very hard for obvious reasons.

[MDlaxfan76]

What could go wrong? Another reason to avoid Florida:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politic ... story.html

“Calling the right to bear arms “central to our freedom,” House Speaker Paul Renner on Monday unveiled a bill removing Florida requirements for a permit and training to carry concealed guns, an idea endorsed by Gov. Ron DeSantis.

“Florida led the nation in concealed carry,” said Renner, surrounded by the bill’s House and Senate sponsors and Florida sheriffs, and now it is time for the state to remove that “government permission slip to carry.”

The legislation, which supporters call “constitutional carry,” would eliminate the need to get a license to carry a concealed weapon as well as the required weapons training that goes with it. If signed into law, as expected, Florida would become the 26th state to allow permitless carry.

Newly reelected by a landslide to a second term, DeSantis has said he wants to see permitless carry the law of Florida before he leaves office.“

The stupidity knows no bounds...

But will this include concealed carry be allowed everywhere, including, say, courts and legislative assemblies? How about in front of the governor's residence? Oh, and how about on Federal installations? That could be fun. Or say, felons?

I have a bad feeling about things as the insanity rises. And to be fair, it's everywhere, although some areas (FL) seem to be particularly afflicted.

It truly is weird.

It's as if there's this race to the bottom of the barrel, the worst of the worst ideas.

I think the only lesson here is that Desantis is advocating legislation that appeals to a base for a future primary. There is nothing quite like permitless carry to burnish that Second Amendment resume for the ardent crazies who effectively run the GOP primaries. This is about politics, not public safety.

yes, that's the motivation of 'worst of the worst ideas'.

Isn't that the exact same motivation NYS Gov Hochul is using??? They are on different ends of the spectrum mind you but the objective is the same. One Governor wants no handgun restrictions. The other governor wants to ignore the rights of those with concealed carry permits who have jumped through every hurdle put in front of them.

I don't think you are characterizing Hochul's objectives the way I would.

I know you are understandably concerned about criminals carrying guns, people with bad intentions carrying guns, and understand that they would want to "conceal" that until they use them...right?

And that you are concerned about public safety in general, right?

Would you not agree that there are places, especially places with high density, that are particularly vulnerable targets for a mass attack? So, where "public safety" is at highest risk?

grocery stores, places of worship, stadiums, schools, airports...or are potential political targets, eg government buildings?

Are these not places where citizens would be understandably alarmed to see someone surreptitiously carrying a gun, not knowing whether it was a permitted concealed carry or someone with bad intent?

Is this really an intent by Hochul to restrict "rights" or this just an emphasis on maintaining public safety in vulnerable spaces?

I think the latter.

I don't think she's trying to pander to a base primary voter, I think she's just trying to combat rampant gun violence. Are there better things to do? Open to debate. But I think that's her intent, well within her responsibility as Governor to maintain public safety.

I think DeSantis' eyes are not on public safety nor "rights" but rather on a national primary voting base which is demanding demonstrations of extremism. The uglier the better in the eyes of these extremists.

In contrast, Hochul does not appear to have national ambitions, nor does she appear to be worried about the primary base of her party as an incumbent.

Then what is the point in jumping through all the hoops to get a concealed carry permit?? With all do respect your feeding me a huge line of bullchit. All of the places Gov Hochul names as " sensitive locations" surprisingly happen to be the same places the bad guys with guns show up to shoot people. Isn't the entire god damn point for carrying a concealed weapon ... WITH A PERMIT is to defend yourself if you happen to be in one of those "sensitive locations" where the bad guy/gal with a gun knows you can't bring your legally obtained and understands being a law abiding citizen you will respect the law. What the eff is the point MD??? You jump through all of the hoops so you won't be a defenseless victim. You now are advocating screw your concealed carry permit... WELL THEN... WHY ARE YOU JUMPING THROUGH ALL OF THE HOOPS in the first place. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Ohh, I understand why someone could want to carry a concealed weapon, lawfully, any place they want...but as a fellow citizen I darn well don't want them to do so. I want only law enforcement carrying weapons in those places. I want trained, managed, law enforcement to handle it, not some wannabe.

I want it to be automatically illegal to have a weapon in those places, not a question mark as to whether the 'carry' was going to be lawful, no improper usage....or something else.

Got a gun in those situations, you've committed a crime. It's an additional crime if the gun is illegally held as well.

Frankly, I don't have much truck with the notion that everyone should be able to carry a gun, wherever, whenever... 'cause it's in the Constitution, man'. I think there's reasonable times and places for gun usage and storage, and I've outlined those views numerous times. My views, IMO, are entirely consistent with both the words and the actual intent of the 2nd Amendment.

Now, if the 'carry permit' process is indeed super rigorous, only for those with truly legitimate need and purpose, with plenty of analysis of mental status on an ongoing basis, one could at least make an argument for less restriction on where and when...but that just ain't the case, even in NY. Too easy.

Better to just say, no, there are places where you can't 'carry'. That's for law enforcement.

I disagree with your premise 100%. I would not carry a concealed weapon myself. If your argument is to hold water then what is the point of issuing concealed carry permits? The carry process in NYS should be the gold standard everywhere. That is the way it should be. When you pay your money and jump through all of the hoops and you successfully complete the process to then be told you can't carry the weapon in all public places you may one day need it... Kinda like going duck hunting only to be told you can't bring your shotgun into the blind, you have to leave it in your truck. You might be a hazard to other people nearby. I do understand your point. If your point is to be valid then the first step is revoking concealed carry. How do you think that will go over with lawful gun owners?

You make a fair argument, though we come to different conclusions.

Yes, I would make it much harder to obtain "concealed carry" licenses and to maintain them than what NY State actually does, and more importantly has in the past done.

There are about 200,000 people in New York State with concealed carry permits, most before the "good moral character" clause was added to the law.

And nearly 10,000 rushed to get a permit before that clause went into effect.https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/th ... es-effect/

Now, if each of those permits required annual renewal, with actual review of 'moral character', including review of social media accounts, and an actual review of mental health status by professionals, and the decisions as to who to approve weren't being made by local elected officials (too easy to approve a buddy), as well as demonstrated need...ok....but what do you want to bet that there'd be a heck of a lot fewer people actually approved?

Yes, a bunch of gun owners wouldn't like it.

It becomes a conundrum my son who is a federal agent says quite frequently. He always his weapon with him when he is out shopping with his kids or just going to Home Depot. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. If the point of going through all the elaborate steps to get a concealed carry only to then be told good for you but you can't bring it in 95 % of the places you go to where you think you may need it.... better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I do believe the process to receive a concealed carry permit in NYS takes about a year or so. The local sheriffs office has to approve your paperwork, photograph you, take your fingerprints, do the background check and the decision goes to a judge to decide. I don't know what the truck RD is proposing in Florida. It sounds more like the wild west than anything else. If every nimrod that owns a handgun starts taking it with them everywhere it will not end well. The right to a concealed carry permit should be hard, very hard for obvious reasons.

"federal agent" as in with law enforcement responsibilities? ok with me, but let's stay on top of the mental health of all such too, not just assume...we saw enough of these folks evidencing white nationalist rhetoric and violent behaviors to know that we can't take it for grants...and then we have these horrendous examples of police abuse...so, ongoing oversight, please.

But Tom, Dick or Harry or Sally, man, I want to be darn sure they know what they're doing and aren't whack jobs. No Q, no angry anarchist rhetoric, left, right, whatever. No pictures carrying an assault weapon proudly, talking about 2nd Amendment rights...nope, you're too invested in the gun...

Law enforcement only.

200,000 people in NYS, before the more stringent carry process, and still no annual oversight...people do go off the rails...

[cradleandshoot]

What could go wrong? Another reason to avoid Florida:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politic ... story.html

“Calling the right to bear arms “central to our freedom,” House Speaker Paul Renner on Monday unveiled a bill removing Florida requirements for a permit and training to carry concealed guns, an idea endorsed by Gov. Ron DeSantis.

“Florida led the nation in concealed carry,” said Renner, surrounded by the bill’s House and Senate sponsors and Florida sheriffs, and now it is time for the state to remove that “government permission slip to carry.”

The legislation, which supporters call “constitutional carry,” would eliminate the need to get a license to carry a concealed weapon as well as the required weapons training that goes with it. If signed into law, as expected, Florida would become the 26th state to allow permitless carry.

Newly reelected by a landslide to a second term, DeSantis has said he wants to see permitless carry the law of Florida before he leaves office.“

The stupidity knows no bounds...

But will this include concealed carry be allowed everywhere, including, say, courts and legislative assemblies? How about in front of the governor's residence? Oh, and how about on Federal installations? That could be fun. Or say, felons?

I have a bad feeling about things as the insanity rises. And to be fair, it's everywhere, although some areas (FL) seem to be particularly afflicted.

It truly is weird.

It's as if there's this race to the bottom of the barrel, the worst of the worst ideas.

I think the only lesson here is that Desantis is advocating legislation that appeals to a base for a future primary. There is nothing quite like permitless carry to burnish that Second Amendment resume for the ardent crazies who effectively run the GOP primaries. This is about politics, not public safety.

yes, that's the motivation of 'worst of the worst ideas'.

Isn't that the exact same motivation NYS Gov Hochul is using??? They are on different ends of the spectrum mind you but the objective is the same. One Governor wants no handgun restrictions. The other governor wants to ignore the rights of those with concealed carry permits who have jumped through every hurdle put in front of them.

I don't think you are characterizing Hochul's objectives the way I would.

I know you are understandably concerned about criminals carrying guns, people with bad intentions carrying guns, and understand that they would want to "conceal" that until they use them...right?

And that you are concerned about public safety in general, right?

Would you not agree that there are places, especially places with high density, that are particularly vulnerable targets for a mass attack? So, where "public safety" is at highest risk?

grocery stores, places of worship, stadiums, schools, airports...or are potential political targets, eg government buildings?

Are these not places where citizens would be understandably alarmed to see someone surreptitiously carrying a gun, not knowing whether it was a permitted concealed carry or someone with bad intent?

Is this really an intent by Hochul to restrict "rights" or this just an emphasis on maintaining public safety in vulnerable spaces?

I think the latter.

I don't think she's trying to pander to a base primary voter, I think she's just trying to combat rampant gun violence. Are there better things to do? Open to debate. But I think that's her intent, well within her responsibility as Governor to maintain public safety.

I think DeSantis' eyes are not on public safety nor "rights" but rather on a national primary voting base which is demanding demonstrations of extremism. The uglier the better in the eyes of these extremists.

In contrast, Hochul does not appear to have national ambitions, nor does she appear to be worried about the primary base of her party as an incumbent.

Then what is the point in jumping through all the hoops to get a concealed carry permit?? With all do respect your feeding me a huge line of bullchit. All of the places Gov Hochul names as " sensitive locations" surprisingly happen to be the same places the bad guys with guns show up to shoot people. Isn't the entire god damn point for carrying a concealed weapon ... WITH A PERMIT is to defend yourself if you happen to be in one of those "sensitive locations" where the bad guy/gal with a gun knows you can't bring your legally obtained and understands being a law abiding citizen you will respect the law. What the eff is the point MD??? You jump through all of the hoops so you won't be a defenseless victim. You now are advocating screw your concealed carry permit... WELL THEN... WHY ARE YOU JUMPING THROUGH ALL OF THE HOOPS in the first place. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Ohh, I understand why someone could want to carry a concealed weapon, lawfully, any place they want...but as a fellow citizen I darn well don't want them to do so. I want only law enforcement carrying weapons in those places. I want trained, managed, law enforcement to handle it, not some wannabe.

I want it to be automatically illegal to have a weapon in those places, not a question mark as to whether the 'carry' was going to be lawful, no improper usage....or something else.

Got a gun in those situations, you've committed a crime. It's an additional crime if the gun is illegally held as well.

Frankly, I don't have much truck with the notion that everyone should be able to carry a gun, wherever, whenever... 'cause it's in the Constitution, man'. I think there's reasonable times and places for gun usage and storage, and I've outlined those views numerous times. My views, IMO, are entirely consistent with both the words and the actual intent of the 2nd Amendment.

Now, if the 'carry permit' process is indeed super rigorous, only for those with truly legitimate need and purpose, with plenty of analysis of mental status on an ongoing basis, one could at least make an argument for less restriction on where and when...but that just ain't the case, even in NY. Too easy.

Better to just say, no, there are places where you can't 'carry'. That's for law enforcement.

I disagree with your premise 100%. I would not carry a concealed weapon myself. If your argument is to hold water then what is the point of issuing concealed carry permits? The carry process in NYS should be the gold standard everywhere. That is the way it should be. When you pay your money and jump through all of the hoops and you successfully complete the process to then be told you can't carry the weapon in all public places you may one day need it... Kinda like going duck hunting only to be told you can't bring your shotgun into the blind, you have to leave it in your truck. You might be a hazard to other people nearby. I do understand your point. If your point is to be valid then the first step is revoking concealed carry. How do you think that will go over with lawful gun owners?

You make a fair argument, though we come to different conclusions.

Yes, I would make it much harder to obtain "concealed carry" licenses and to maintain them than what NY State actually does, and more importantly has in the past done.

There are about 200,000 people in New York State with concealed carry permits, most before the "good moral character" clause was added to the law.

And nearly 10,000 rushed to get a permit before that clause went into effect.https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/th ... es-effect/

Now, if each of those permits required annual renewal, with actual review of 'moral character', including review of social media accounts, and an actual review of mental health status by professionals, and the decisions as to who to approve weren't being made by local elected officials (too easy to approve a buddy), as well as demonstrated need...ok....but what do you want to bet that there'd be a heck of a lot fewer people actually approved?

Yes, a bunch of gun owners wouldn't like it.

It becomes a conundrum my son who is a federal agent says quite frequently. He always his weapon with him when he is out shopping with his kids or just going to Home Depot. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. If the point of going through all the elaborate steps to get a concealed carry only to then be told good for you but you can't bring it in 95 % of the places you go to where you think you may need it.... better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I do believe the process to receive a concealed carry permit in NYS takes about a year or so. The local sheriffs office has to approve your paperwork, photograph you, take your fingerprints, do the background check and the decision goes to a judge to decide. I don't know what the truck RD is proposing in Florida. It sounds more like the wild west than anything else. If every nimrod that owns a handgun starts taking it with them everywhere it will not end well. The right to a concealed carry permit should be hard, very hard for obvious reasons.

"federal agent" as in with law enforcement responsibilities? ok with me, but let's stay on top of the mental health of all such too, not just assume...we saw enough of these folks evidencing white nationalist rhetoric and violent behaviors to know that we can't take it for grants...and then we have these horrendous examples of police abuse...so, ongoing oversight, please.

But Tom, Dick or Harry or Sally, man, I want to be darn sure they know what they're doing and aren't whack jobs. No Q, no angry anarchist rhetoric, left, right, whatever. No pictures carrying an assault weapon proudly, talking about 2nd Amendment rights...nope, you're too invested in the gun...

Law enforcement only.

200,000 people in NYS, before the more stringent carry process, and still no annual oversight...people do go off the rails...

You need to clarify for me. It sounds like your stepping in to " big brother" territory. The process in NYS works very well. You have to prove your a person of good standing with no criminal record. Your criteria introduces the thought police into the equation. Recent events should prove even to you that there are a lot of law enforcement types who probably shouldn't be carrying weapons either. Your option involves revoking the ability to be issued a concealed carry permit. It reminds me of that old NRA mantra when you outlaw guns then only outlaws will have guns. One of the considerations any criminal should have in the back of their mind is will somebody in that Walmart store be packing heat. Your solution meant to assuage your angst guarantees they won't have to worry about that. I'm not a person who feels a need to carry a weapon when I go to Wegmans on Saturday. I do understand and respect your opinion. When the day comes where bad people with guns are not shooting up businesses that they know are target rich, sign me up, I'll be on board with you. When do you think that day will happen? I don't worry about good guys with guns, I worry about bad guys with guns. The funny thing is that the bad guys don't give a rats rear end about where they carry their weapons. I do understand why there are many locations and venues where people should not be allowed to carry weapons. That is not the case in NYS and is the reason the courts will have to rehash the SCOTUS decision all over again. Gov. Hochuls mandate had nothing to do with public safety. Her mandate was a sharp stick in the eye to the SCOTUS decision. So it is now back to square one. I'm starting to see more of those signs in business windows... Concealed carry is allowed here...

[ardilla secreta]

Missouri votes against banning children from carrying guns in public
Republican-led legislature rejects measure to prevent minors from carrying firearms in public without adult supervision
Police asked for the change to stop 14-year-olds walking down the middle of the street in the city of St Louis carrying AR-15s. Now they have been emboldened.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

[njbill]

The next measure, working its way through the Missouri legislature, is to require all students to carry guns in school. You know, a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun. What could go wrong?

[Seacoaster(1)]

The next measure, working its way through the Missouri legislature, is to require all students to carry guns in school. You know, a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun. What could go wrong?

Seriously?

[njbill]

No. A joke.

[DMac]

Missouri votes against banning children from carrying guns in public
Republican-led legislature rejects measure to prevent minors from carrying firearms in public without adult supervision
Police asked for the change to stop 14-year-olds walking down the middle of the street in the city of St Louis carrying AR-15s. Now they have been emboldened.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

Unbelievable.

In Missouri, it is illegal for any person younger than 21 years old to possess, purchase, or attempt to purchase any intoxicating liquor (with some exceptions, see below).

Can't carry a six pack of Old Milwaukee down the street, no Wild Turkey either,
gun is okay. W*T*F????
Can't buy a pack of smokes til you're 18, can carry a gun when you're 14 though.
We're beyond phuked up with our collective attitude about guns and there aint
a chance that's changing anytime soon.
Thoughts and prayers.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Missouri votes against banning children from carrying guns in public
Republican-led legislature rejects measure to prevent minors from carrying firearms in public without adult supervision
Police asked for the change to stop 14-year-olds walking down the middle of the street in the city of St Louis carrying AR-15s. Now they have been emboldened.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

Unbelievable.

In Missouri, it is illegal for any person younger than 21 years old to possess, purchase, or attempt to purchase any intoxicating liquor (with some exceptions, see below).

Can't carry a six pack of Old Milwaukee down the street, no Wild Turkey either,
gun is okay. W*T*F????
Can't buy a pack of smokes til you're 18, can carry a gun when you're 14 though.
We're beyond phuked up with our collective attitude about guns and there aint
a chance that's changing anytime soon.
Thoughts and prayers.

“It is in the constitution”…

[DMac]

So you pull one of your fellow citizens over, a Missourian, and say to him, "Say partner, that paperboy (not that I'm really thinkin' they can read down there in Missouri) over there on his bike delivering the papers totin' a six shooter....that look like a good idea to ya?
"Good idea?? Damn sure does, that boy's protecting himself, his daddy taught him right."
Was on a ship with a couple of Missouri boys, they aint right, they just aint.
Where ya from?
Muhzerr

[PizzaSnake]

Missouri votes against banning children from carrying guns in public
Republican-led legislature rejects measure to prevent minors from carrying firearms in public without adult supervision
Police asked for the change to stop 14-year-olds walking down the middle of the street in the city of St Louis carrying AR-15s. Now they have been emboldened.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other

Unbelievable.

In Missouri, it is illegal for any person younger than 21 years old to possess, purchase, or attempt to purchase any intoxicating liquor (with some exceptions, see below).

Can't carry a six pack of Old Milwaukee down the street, no Wild Turkey either,
gun is okay. W*T*F????
Can't buy a pack of smokes til you're 18, can carry a gun when you're 14 though.
We're beyond phuked up with our collective attitude about guns and there aint
a chance that's changing anytime soon.
Thoughts and prayers.

“It is in the constitution”…

Yeah, like the part Boobie asserts about Twitter violating her rights…

Everyday is like a fcuking dystopian nightmare as you realize exactly how stupid most humans are.

[Typical Lax Dad]

So you pull one of your fellow citizens over, a Missourian, and say to him, "Say partner, that paperboy (not that I'm really thinkin' they can read down there in Missouri) over there on his bike delivering the papers totin' a six shooter....that look like a good idea to ya?
"Good idea?? Damn sure does, that boy's protecting himself, his daddy taught him right."
Was on a ship with a couple of Missouri boys, they aint right, they just aint.
Where ya from?
Muhzerr

Was talking to my brother today….High School basketball player in Ohio shot himself in the head and died the other day….fooling around with a gun…..One Hillary didn’t take.

[cradleandshoot]

So you pull one of your fellow citizens over, a Missourian, and say to him, "Say partner, that paperboy (not that I'm really thinkin' they can read down there in Missouri) over there on his bike delivering the papers totin' a six shooter....that look like a good idea to ya?
"Good idea?? Damn sure does, that boy's protecting himself, his daddy taught him right."
Was on a ship with a couple of Missouri boys, they aint right, they just aint.
Where ya from?
Muhzerr

Them Missouri boys can't all be Harry Truman can they?

[SCLaxAttack]

Thoughts and prayers for Michigan State.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Thoughts and prayers for Michigan State.

Yes, it's a lot easier than doing something about guns. Three innocents dead, five wounded, multiple lives completely shattered. Again.

[cradleandshoot]

Thoughts and prayers for Michigan State.

Yes, it's a lot easier than doing something about guns. Three innocents dead, five wounded, multiple lives completely shattered. Again.

Same old story, same old song and dance my friend. What is your plan counselor? How do you deal with the gun problem? I'm reminded about all of the people who gripe about the weather knowing full well there is nothing anyone can do about the weather. Are you advocating " common sense" gun laws??? Apparently you are not up to speed. Those common sense gun laws are maliciously being ignored by people who don't give a chit about gun laws or common sense for that matter. If your going to whine about it... WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION??? That is a fair question counselor. How do you address the rampant problem of ILLEGAL WEAPONS??? Your a smart guy, time for you to provide YOUR SOLUTION. I'm more than willing to find out what Your solution is. My solution starts with throwing people who possess ILLEGAL WEAPONS in jail for a very long time.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Thoughts and prayers for Michigan State.

Yes, it's a lot easier than doing something about guns. Three innocents dead, five wounded, multiple lives completely shattered. Again.

Same old story, same old song and dance my friend. What is your plan counselor? How do you deal with the gun problem? I'm reminded about all of the people who gripe about the weather knowing full well there is nothing anyone can do about the weather. Are you advocating " common sense" gun laws??? Apparently you are not up to speed. Those common sense gun laws are maliciously being ignored by people who don't give a chit about gun laws or common sense for that matter. If your going to whine about it... WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION??? That is a fair question counselor. How do you address the rampant problem of ILLEGAL WEAPONS??? Your a smart guy, time for you to provide YOUR SOLUTION. I'm more than willing to find out what Your solution is. My solution starts with throwing people who possess ILLEGAL WEAPONS in jail for a very long time.

More guns or doing nothing guns is the answer.

[SCLaxAttack]

Thoughts and prayers for Michigan State.

Yes, it's a lot easier than doing something about guns. Three innocents dead, five wounded, multiple lives completely shattered. Again.

Same old story, same old song and dance my friend. What is your plan counselor? How do you deal with the gun problem? I'm reminded about all of the people who gripe about the weather knowing full well there is nothing anyone can do about the weather. Are you advocating " common sense" gun laws??? Apparently you are not up to speed. Those common sense gun laws are maliciously being ignored by people who don't give a chit about gun laws or common sense for that matter. If your going to whine about it... WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION??? That is a fair question counselor. How do you address the rampant problem of ILLEGAL WEAPONS??? Your a smart guy, time for you to provide YOUR SOLUTION. I'm more than willing to find out what Your solution is. My solution starts with throwing people who possess ILLEGAL WEAPONS in jail for a very long time.

My solution starts by acknowledging that we’ve regulated and restricted what types of “Arms” people have been able to “keep and bear” since forever, and should be regulating and restricting more.