D1 Men Rankings

D1 Mens Lacrosse
wgdsr
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by wgdsr »

laxpert wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:58 pm Title IX is an easy but valid excuse that AD's use for not adding men's lacrosse as the proportionality test is the only Safe Harbor.
at any school that doesn't have women's lacrosse, it's not valid. they could add them side by side and be fine. even the ocr basically said as much, as have numerous court rulings that have addressed title ix.
for those that do have women's lax, their refusal to add men's at the same time or shortly thereafter confirms their lack of interest in doing so. the women's add would meet a test that courts have consistently followed when ruling.
and then there are those universities who are substantially near/at/or past proportionality, who also do not add men's lacrosse (or other men's sports).

you can't prove a negative, but actions are damning.

the proportionality test is no more a safe harbor than the second prong (or the third supposedly, though that one i wouldn't want to have to prove without a stamp of approval from the ocr). and actually has never been defined, that i'm aware of. plus, most schools aren't proportional anyway, yet they go about their merry way every year.

one reason brown univ. lost was because their proportion, while on the correct side of 50%, wasn't close enough. the other was because they were taking opportunities away from actual athletes, and thus were basically failing the 2nd two prongs by that action.

ADs don't want to be distracted from the money machine. that is the only "valid" reason they have.
Drcthru
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Drcthru »

runrussellrun wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:18 pm
LaxOverBaseball wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:32 pm Is it whining if it’s true.

Let there be no doubt that Title IX has limited the growth of D1 Men’s Lacrosse. Adding a large number of male scholarships has been near impossible especially for universities with football teams. Dropping men’s sports has been one method (Richmond dropped Soccer. BU dropped Wrestling.) Another method is to add more Women’s sports. Both of these “answers” were needed because of Title IX.

You can not like the whining, but can’t deny the facts.
There has never, I repeat, never been a title IX lawsuit for a school adding a program. Remember title nine has a do with opportunity in all things not just Sports
I can tell you right now no lawsuit would ever see a quart room because a Pac-10 team added men’s lacrosse, or an SEC conference grew up it just would never happen

Not one of these colleges could pass a real genuine equality audit they know it you know it and I know it so to blame title nine is a joke is just lazy boring athletic directors alumni and administration people.
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callaxdad
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by callaxdad »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Hawkeye wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:50 pm Title IX is beyond scholarships. Does Title IX not apply to Ivy League Schools or D3 schools?
Yes, this is true that Title IX is beyond scholarships and applies to all institutions that receive/accept federal funding (i.e., effectively all schools). Scholarships are the most visible aspect of how Title IX is related to athletics, though.
Yes. Generally title IX has been a good thing.
TLD, I must agree with you, when it comes to generalities, Title IX has generally been a success... when it comes to realities, it has, in Reality, been an abject failure to men's sports..... especially the "olympic sports"...no ifs, ands or buts about it. I could give you numerous examples but look no further than a great track program 50 years ago, San Jose State.... Tommie Smith and John Carlos, two exceptional SJSU track student athletes!!.... great track program torpedoed by title IX... you won't find any evidence of that on line but, true "AF", as my kids would say.... I have daughters and love womens sports..... sister was best athlete in the family!!.... Title IX SUCKS!! Drop football from the equation and Title IX is terrific.... otherwise, it SUCKS!!
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

callaxdad wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Hawkeye wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:50 pm Title IX is beyond scholarships. Does Title IX not apply to Ivy League Schools or D3 schools?
Yes, this is true that Title IX is beyond scholarships and applies to all institutions that receive/accept federal funding (i.e., effectively all schools). Scholarships are the most visible aspect of how Title IX is related to athletics, though.
Yes. Generally title IX has been a good thing.
TLD, I must agree with you, when it comes to generalities, Title IX has generally been a success... when it comes to realities, it has, in Reality, been an abject failure to men's sports..... especially the "olympic sports"...no ifs, ands or buts about it. I could give you numerous examples but look no further than a great track program 50 years ago, San Jose State.... Tommie Smith and John Carlos, two exceptional SJSU track student athletes!!.... great track program torpedoed by title IX... you won't find any evidence of that on line but, true "AF", as my kids would say.... I have daughters and love womens sports..... sister was best athlete in the family!!.... Title IX SUCKS!! Drop football from the equation and Title IX is terrific.... otherwise, it SUCKS!!
Tommy Smith!! My friend's dad went to USF and was a contemporary of Smith. He talks about seeing him run 400 yard dash in combat boots. I am a big track and field fan. My wife ran in college.... 400MM and long jump. My cousin still holds a state 220 yard dash record.....Last year before it converted to meters! Lastly high school teammate's wife was an Olympic gold medalist in the high hurdles. He ran at Tennessee. I had not considered the impact on men's track and field. It's not what is was 30 - 40 years ago....that is certain.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
CU88
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by CU88 »

callaxdad wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Hawkeye wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:50 pm Title IX is beyond scholarships. Does Title IX not apply to Ivy League Schools or D3 schools?
Yes, this is true that Title IX is beyond scholarships and applies to all institutions that receive/accept federal funding (i.e., effectively all schools). Scholarships are the most visible aspect of how Title IX is related to athletics, though.
Yes. Generally title IX has been a good thing.
TLD, I must agree with you, when it comes to generalities, Title IX has generally been a success... when it comes to realities, it has, in Reality, been an abject failure to men's sports..... especially the "olympic sports"...no ifs, ands or buts about it. I could give you numerous examples but look no further than a great track program 50 years ago, San Jose State.... Tommie Smith and John Carlos, two exceptional SJSU track student athletes!!.... great track program torpedoed by title IX... you won't find any evidence of that on line but, true "AF", as my kids would say.... I have daughters and love womens sports..... sister was best athlete in the family!!.... Title IX SUCKS!! Drop football from the equation and Title IX is terrific.... otherwise, it SUCKS!!
Why is football such a scared cow???

Cut those squads in half and you can probably add 2 other teams sports at each school!

"Under NCAA football rules in place for the 2012-13 biennium, a college football team is limited to no more than 105 players during the offseason. During the football season, no regulated limit exists".

Notre Dame has a football staff of 45 people!
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
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DALaxDad
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by DALaxDad »

At the FBS schools, football = $$$. Big $$$.
NElaxtalent
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by NElaxtalent »

And is viewed as FUNDING some/most/all the non-revenue sports.

At most FBS schools, they are far more focused on how to increase fb revenue (W's, luxury suites, TV revenue, alumni experience => gifts/pledges) than how to reduce fb costs.

Just sayin'. CU88 on this you are looking thru the opposite end of the telescope from the FBS school's AD.
CU88
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by CU88 »

NElaxtalent wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:10 am And is viewed as FUNDING some/most/all the non-revenue sports.

At most FBS schools, they are far more focused on how to increase fb revenue (W's, luxury suites, TV revenue, alumni experience => gifts/pledges) than how to reduce fb costs.

Just sayin'. CU88 on this you are looking thru the opposite end of the telescope from the FBS school's AD.
No problemo, I dont even know what "FBS" means. I am just stuck at how football can be considered apart from all other aspects of the eductional mission. If people want more sporting opportunities why not cut back one such an overly large program to provide for others?

I will stand down.
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
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44WeWantMore
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by 44WeWantMore »

DALaxDad wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:11 am At the FBS schools, football = $$$. Big $$$.
I am certain that ND (and probably UT, UM, and a handful of others) are profitable on a strict accounting basis, and I have heard that ND football gives money back to the University as well as funding their entire Athletic Department (not sure if that includes club and intramural sports).

I also read an analysis that Maryland football loses money, but I wonder about how they do cost accounting. Years ago, I knew a little something about how grant money flowed into JHU, and a shocking proportion of grant money was absorbed by indirect costs allocated to the grant, so I do not know if indirect university costs were also allocated to the Maryland football program in their calculations. But separately from the direct profitability of big-time sports, how much of an impact do they have on donations? On the JHU thread, I read that Mayor Mike will give for anything except for athletics, but I suspect that at Maryland, the Under Armour guy is at least engaged with athletics, and that some of that engagement is probably working its way into fixed assets or the endowment.

Completely separate from your point about FBS schools, I have read that a few small D-3 schools are bringing football back to increase their tuition-paying enrollment.
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
callaxdad
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by callaxdad »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:26 pm
callaxdad wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Hawkeye wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:50 pm Title IX is beyond scholarships. Does Title IX not apply to Ivy League Schools or D3 schools?
Yes, this is true that Title IX is beyond scholarships and applies to all institutions that receive/accept federal funding (i.e., effectively all schools). Scholarships are the most visible aspect of how Title IX is related to athletics, though.
Yes. Generally title IX has been a good thing.
TLD, I must agree with you, when it comes to generalities, Title IX has generally been a success... when it comes to realities, it has, in Reality, been an abject failure to men's sports..... especially the "olympic sports"...no ifs, ands or buts about it. I could give you numerous examples but look no further than a great track program 50 years ago, San Jose State.... Tommie Smith and John Carlos, two exceptional SJSU track student athletes!!.... great track program torpedoed by title IX... you won't find any evidence of that on line but, true "AF", as my kids would say.... I have daughters and love womens sports..... sister was best athlete in the family!!.... Title IX SUCKS!! Drop football from the equation and Title IX is terrific.... otherwise, it SUCKS!!
Tommy Smith!! My friend's dad went to USF and was a contemporary of Smith. He talks about seeing him run 400 yard dash in combat boots. I am a big track and field fan. My wife ran in college.... 400MM and long jump. My cousin still holds a state 220 yard dash record.....Last year before it converted to meters! Lastly high school teammate's wife was an Olympic gold medalist in the high hurdles. He ran at Tennessee. I had not considered the impact on men's track and field. It's not what is was 30 - 40 years ago....that is certain.
callaxdad
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by callaxdad »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:26 pm
callaxdad wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Hawkeye wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:50 pm Title IX is beyond scholarships. Does Title IX not apply to Ivy League Schools or D3 schools?
Yes, this is true that Title IX is beyond scholarships and applies to all institutions that receive/accept federal funding (i.e., effectively all schools). Scholarships are the most visible aspect of how Title IX is related to athletics, though.
Yes. Generally title IX has been a good thing.
TLD, I must agree with you, when it comes to generalities, Title IX has generally been a success... when it comes to realities, it has, in Reality, been an abject failure to men's sports..... especially the "olympic sports"...no ifs, ands or buts about it. I could give you numerous examples but look no further than a great track program 50 years ago, San Jose State.... Tommie Smith and John Carlos, two exceptional SJSU track student athletes!!.... great track program torpedoed by title IX... you won't find any evidence of that on line but, true "AF", as my kids would say.... I have daughters and love womens sports..... sister was best athlete in the family!!.... Title IX SUCKS!! Drop football from the equation and Title IX is terrific.... otherwise, it SUCKS!!
Tommy Smith!! My friend's dad went to USF and was a contemporary of Smith. He talks about seeing him run 400 yard dash in combat boots. I am a big track and field fan. My wife ran in college.... 400MM and long jump. My cousin still holds a state 220 yard dash record.....Last year before it converted to meters! Lastly high school teammate's wife was an Olympic gold medalist in the high hurdles. He ran at Tennessee. I had not considered the impact on men's track and field. It's not what is was 30 - 40 years ago....that is certain.
WOW!!! That is some impressive lineage!!! No wonder where the boy gets it!! :D :D

Over 50 yrs ago, '68 Olympics.....we're old AF!!

Happy Easter everyone!!
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

callaxdad wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:15 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:26 pm
callaxdad wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Hawkeye wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:50 pm Title IX is beyond scholarships. Does Title IX not apply to Ivy League Schools or D3 schools?
Yes, this is true that Title IX is beyond scholarships and applies to all institutions that receive/accept federal funding (i.e., effectively all schools). Scholarships are the most visible aspect of how Title IX is related to athletics, though.
Yes. Generally title IX has been a good thing.
TLD, I must agree with you, when it comes to generalities, Title IX has generally been a success... when it comes to realities, it has, in Reality, been an abject failure to men's sports..... especially the "olympic sports"...no ifs, ands or buts about it. I could give you numerous examples but look no further than a great track program 50 years ago, San Jose State.... Tommie Smith and John Carlos, two exceptional SJSU track student athletes!!.... great track program torpedoed by title IX... you won't find any evidence of that on line but, true "AF", as my kids would say.... I have daughters and love womens sports..... sister was best athlete in the family!!.... Title IX SUCKS!! Drop football from the equation and Title IX is terrific.... otherwise, it SUCKS!!
Tommy Smith!! My friend's dad went to USF and was a contemporary of Smith. He talks about seeing him run 400 yard dash in combat boots. I am a big track and field fan. My wife ran in college.... 400MM and long jump. My cousin still holds a state 220 yard dash record.....Last year before it converted to meters! Lastly high school teammate's wife was an Olympic gold medalist in the high hurdles. He ran at Tennessee. I had not considered the impact on men's track and field. It's not what is was 30 - 40 years ago....that is certain.
WOW!!! That is some impressive lineage!!! No wonder where the boy gets it!! :D :D

Over 50 yrs ago, '68 Olympics.....we're old AF!!

Happy Easter everyone!!
Happy Easter!!
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Big Dog
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Big Dog »

Why is football such a scared cow???

Cut those squads in half and you can probably add 2 other teams sports at each school!
At schools like Alabama, Penn State and Notre Dame, football alone pays for all other sports, including women's sports. Alabama football even sends back money to the school's general scholarship fund.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Farfromgeneva »

My understanding with FBS football other than a handful the true P&L is red. Unlike how Hop may utilize funky transfer pricing to allocate costs against that source of recvenue as a subsidy, Athletics at the highest level doesn’t come close to properly accounting for a number of expenses, especially anything capital related.

The easiest example would be the cost of operating capital. Not only does the university not charge an appropriate cost to the money, it doesn’t charge any and borrows on a subsidized cheap basis in the tax exempt municipal borrowing markets to fund those long term expenses. Add this simple line item(and treat the sports program as stand alone for funding purposes year to year and they’re all money losing.

CUs general philosophy is directionally correct and I played football (D3 where student athletes exist) and love it. There is some intangible value to what the sports bring but on the whole accounting is used to support the propriety of the sports genera bloat on campuses.

Colleges are also risking a massive asset/liability mismatch as football is facing an existential crisis yet thy are continuing to make long time financial commitments, not to mention lost land and lost opportunity cost with the assets, one insurance provider, PR nightmare,healthcare concerns, etc.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
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Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
wgdsr
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by wgdsr »

your tuition, fees, room and board, etc. pay for any number of things on campus that give you the opportunity to experience college as you want it. you're paying for professors, building maintenance of the education school, clubs of all kinds, student centers, you name it.

as far as sports... they have no shareholders. they don't have to show a profit to boost the value of their stock. actually, they're like new age companies, where boosting revenue, and spending it/capital expense etc. to boost more revenue is all that matters.

athletic departments have doubled and tripled and more their revenue bases and budgets the last 10 years. it's an arms race. they are not money losers, they are money machines. much faster than even tuition increases. and that doesn't even include a lot of the soft money of fundraising, endowments and boosters.

spend it if ya got it. no reason not to.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Maybe but the air is coming out of the Silicon Valley bubble every day. (Perception shift, Kalanik, holmes, Lyft IPO,global reduction in money supply shortening up the duration profile of equity investors and increasing the discount rate, etc). So with that analogy football faces a similar crisis except that it might be more existential than Sand Hill Rd which may have a cyclical nature to it.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
wgdsr
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by wgdsr »

i dunno, man. i thought the value placed on sports franchises a long time ago were whack figures and plaything hobbies for billionaires with more time and money than they knew what to do with.
that still has an element of truth to it, but my god, they've turned into about as good an investment as you could imagine, no matter the cost.
and show no sign of slowing down.
if you do even have a franchise that generates cash flow, it pales at the multiple.

what that has continued to show, and it drops to nc$$ football and hoops... is the voracious appetite for sports consumption has to date known no bounds.

edit: facebook debuted at 38 and dropped to about 20.
amzn was plenty available at, around or below ipo i think around 100.
googl didn't only double, then triple, etc.
AOL popped a little, then you could've had it below ipo before it split 2 for 1 seven times and went up 10 fold in price on top of that.
some of these type deals of course figure out a way to grow and also make money. and adapt or die.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Seems that way to me but the turkey who was fed every morning for 364 days didn’t exactly get his expected meal on the morning of Thanksgiving. The distribution of the content, local relationship of teams and fans and changes in the employee/employer model is changing so dramatically that I wouldn’t bet on anything involving sports and money over the next 20yrs.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
10stone5
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by 10stone5 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:54 pm Maybe but the air is coming out of the Silicon Valley bubble every day.
No its not, I’m right here.
We could run 24/7 and we’d still be behind.
wgdsr
Posts: 9864
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by wgdsr »

i agree. someone will be holding a very large bag.

but what kind of person wouldn't feed him on thanksgiving morning? that's just cruel.
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