Sensible Gun Safety

[HooDat]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

And it’s too easy to find a gun (legally and illegally)…. I believe it reducing supply and demand and bring the whole curve down. We did it with cigarettes. We can do it with guns.

[HooDat]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

And it’s too easy to find a gun (legally and illegally)…. I believe it reducing supply and demand and bring the whole curve down. We did it with cigarettes. We can do it with guns.

One difference is that cigarettes are a consumable product.

The other difference is that a citizen's right to smoke cigarettes are not specifically guaranteed by the freaking Constitution.

If you outlawed all guns today - it would not make a dent in the shooting deaths that occur in this country. If you are so concerned about deaths - let's outlaw fast food, cars, and obesity in general. That would a do a LOT more to save lives than banning guns.

[MDlaxfan76]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

That, and a country awash in guns, where the reality is that there's an expectation of using a gun to address any conflict or despair.

Notwithstanding, the blue city, red rural, poverty, it's also a reality that the regions where guns are most easily obtained "legally", the murder rate is highest. Obtaining guns illegally is also easier in those regions, or where those regions are reachable easily.

So, given the politics, it's no surprise that the regions with the highest deaths by gun are 'red'.
Also no surprise that criminals will obtain the guns wherever easier and transport them to where there's demand.

Other developed countries have poverty like ours, whether rural or urban, and indeed crime and murder rates are higher there than in their more affluent areas...but way lower gun violence. Because guns are not easily obtained much less carried, legally, country-wide.

It's not going to be easy to reverse our gun crazy culture, to dramatically reduce the number of guns, but there really are some common sense things we can do to move the needle....but it requires national solutions not state by state, as there's too much interstate bleed over...by criminals.

[Kismet]

The other difference is that a citizen's right to smoke cigarettes are not specifically guaranteed by the freaking Constitution.

Sorry but IMHO a vague and poorly written sentence constructed 250+ years ago should NOT be the only standard.
Not to mention that "well-regulated militia" is mentioned first and should provide some context. For over 200 years there was not a problem.

As with all amendments and original articles enumerated rights are NOT absolute and are subject to regulation (reference that actual word in the first phrase)

Lastly, the word "arms" is not defined in any manner or shape and is also subject to regulation.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

And it’s too easy to find a gun (legally and illegally)…. I believe it reducing supply and demand and bring the whole curve down. We did it with cigarettes. We can do it with guns.

One difference is that cigarettes are a consumable product.

The other difference is that a citizen's right to smoke cigarettes are not specifically guaranteed by the freaking Constitution.

If you outlawed all guns today - it would not make a dent in the shooting deaths that occur in this country. If you are so concerned about deaths - let's outlaw fast food, cars, and obesity in general. That would a do a LOT more to save lives than banning guns.

I wouldn’t outlaw all guns…. Or really outlaw anything. We have taken steps to improve all the things you mentioned BTW, or do you disagree?

[Farfromgeneva]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

Not my headline first of all.

Second, it was states not cities.

Third, do you see only the left claiming crime and murder is a problem of the right more frequently or the inverse? Here and in general? Including the people you talk to in the Houston MSA. I ask because the eye roll seems to imply to me that the left is more responsible for politicizing murder.

[Farfromgeneva]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

My prior reply was before seeing this-I agree with the bolded but if it’s worth noting a state is both city and country so generally a blend or mix with some balance in aggregate so should be an ok unit/political subdivision to analyze.

[get it to x]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

My period reply was before seeing this-I agree with the bolded but if it’s worth noting a state is both city and country so generally a blend or mix with some balance in aggregate so should be an ok unit/political subdivision to analyze.

The real trick is to improve gun safety for some without making it unsafe for others. Don't take away the ability of the single mom next door to defend her family.

The other factor is underestimating the criminal mind. Does anyone think home invasions would go down in your neighborhood if everyone in it put a "Gun Free Zone" sign on their front porch?

[Farfromgeneva]

All these people talking about the criminal mind either have to be criminals or have no clue what they are talking about…

[Kismet]

The real trick is to improve gun safety for some without making it unsafe for others. Don't take away the ability of the single mom next door to defend her family.

Sure. Like the VA single mom whose 6YO took her firearm to school and nearly killed his teacher.
Who defends the teacher?

[jhu72]

The other difference is that a citizen's right to smoke cigarettes are not specifically guaranteed by the freaking Constitution.

Sorry but IMHO a vague and poorly written sentence constructed 250+ years ago should NOT be the only standard.
Not to mention that "well-regulated militia" is mentioned first and should provide some context.

As with all amendments and original articles enumerated rights are NOT absolute and are subject to regulation (reference that actual word in the first phrase)

Lastly, the word "arms" is not defined in any manner or shape and is also subject to regulation.

... I would disagree about the poorly constructed sentence. It may be clumsy by today's standard but it is perfectly understandable if you know how to read English. I am not for giving the right wing nut jobs anyone to blame for the current disaster but themselves. They can't or don't want to understand what the sentence plainly says in this case and no amount of their sophistry will change that! "Well regulated militia" is not a throw away phrase or a poorly designed and understood concept.

[jhu72]

The real trick is to improve gun safety for some without making it unsafe for others. Don't take away the ability of the single mom next door to defend her family.

Sure. Like the VA single mom whose 6YO took her firearm to school and nearly killed his teacher.
Who defends the teacher?

... a good guy with another gun??

[Kismet]

The other difference is that a citizen's right to smoke cigarettes are not specifically guaranteed by the freaking Constitution.

Sorry but IMHO a vague and poorly written sentence constructed 250+ years ago should NOT be the only standard.
Not to mention that "well-regulated militia" is mentioned first and should provide some context.

As with all amendments and original articles enumerated rights are NOT absolute and are subject to regulation (reference that actual word in the first phrase)

Lastly, the word "arms" is not defined in any manner or shape and is also subject to regulation.

... I would disagree about the poorly constructed sentence. It may be clumsy by today's standard but it is perfectly understandable if you know how to read English. I am not for giving the right wing nut jobs anyone to blame for the current disaster but themselves. They can't or don't want to understand what the sentence plainly says in this case and no amount of their sophistry will change that! "Well regulated militia" is not a throw away phrase or a poorly designed and understood concept.

My bad. My mention of "well regulated militia" as the first noun means that was their point and emphasis not "arms" which is at the end of the sentence.

My grammatical point was that the poor sentence construction allows some to drive a truck through the alleged interpretation about the right to own firearms somehow being the main point (which it obviously isn't).

[njbill]

The real trick is to improve gun safety for some without making it unsafe for others. Don't take away the ability of the single mom next door to defend her family.

Sure. Like the VA single mom whose 6YO took her firearm to school and nearly killed his teacher.
Who defends the teacher?

The gun kooks want to arm teachers. So this teacher could have shot the six year old. Yeah, that is really the way things ought to be.

[get it to x]

The real trick is to improve gun safety for some without making it unsafe for others. Don't take away the ability of the single mom next door to defend her family.

Sure. Like the VA single mom whose 6YO took her firearm to school and nearly killed his teacher.
Who defends the teacher?

Your using a 1 in 300 million incident to make a point? Those are lotto odds.

[Kismet]

The real trick is to improve gun safety for some without making it unsafe for others. Don't take away the ability of the single mom next door to defend her family.

Sure. Like the VA single mom whose 6YO took her firearm to school and nearly killed his teacher.
Who defends the teacher?

Your using a 1 in 300 million incident to make a point? Those are lotto odds.

Tell that to the teacher. i'm sure she's thrilled to have won the lottery.

Otherwise, you want to purchase a firearm - pass a routine test on safe use and storage. A background check for ALL buyers.

[HooDat]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

That, and a country awash in guns, where the reality is that there's an expectation of using a gun to address any conflict or despair. I call total BS on this. An "expectation of using a gun"?!? really? I thought Texas was the old west - but man, Baltimore has gotten rough baby...!

Notwithstanding, the blue city, red rural, poverty, it's also a reality that the regions where guns are most easily obtained "legally", the murder rate is highest. Obtaining guns illegally is also easier in those regions, or where those regions are reachable easily. balderdash - you telling me there is anywhere easier to buy an illegal gun than Washington DC or Baltimore Maryland? Oh, I guess Chicago...

So, given the politics, it's no surprise that the regions with the highest deaths by gun are 'red'.
Also no surprise that criminals will obtain the guns wherever easier and transport them to where there's demand.[aren't these points self-contradictory? Is it the state gun laws, the federal protection of the right to cross state lines, or the local lack of support for poor people that is the driving factor in murder rates? I will tell you it is the latter. The worst rates of murder (and murder by gun) are in notoriously democrat led cities. You live in one of them - I can remember driving right through the worst of it to get to the old memorial stadium, and have lived in two of the others (DC and New Orleans). You want the true test - where would YOU be the most afraid of someone holding gun? What is the defining political characteristic of that place?

Other developed countries have poverty like ours, whether rural or urban, and indeed crime and murder rates are higher there than in their more affluent areas...but way lower gun violence. Because guns are not easily obtained much less carried, legally, country-wide.[but are their murder rates any lower? you are blaming the instrument. But is the instrument influencing the outcomes?]

It's not going to be easy to reverse our gun crazy culture, [when you try to establish this as your baseline for the conversation - you are clearly biased]to dramatically reduce the number of guns, but there really are some common sense things we can do to move the needle....but it requires national solutions not state by state, as there's too much interstate bleed over...by criminals.

there is a lot packed in there MD. My comments in Blue, your comments that i have bolded are specifics of what I am referencing. (by the way, my comments probably read better backwards because I worked my way up

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates

Now do "Blue" cities.....

Murder rates ain't about politics, and they aren't about 2A rights. They are about poverty, broken cultures and a lack of hope.

.... do cities period.

exactly. I'll take it one step further - do POOR Communities.

The wealthy urban neighborhoods and suburbs aren't where the shootings are taking place.

It is in the poor (broken) communities. In the country they tend to be "red" in the city they tend to be "blue".

But it all goes back to despair and cultures where shooting someone is viewed as having as much potential upside as down... That is where we are failing. Not justifying their actions, just noting the underlying cause(s).

That, and a country awash in guns, where the reality is that there's an expectation of using a gun to address any conflict or despair. I call total BS on this. An "expectation of using a gun"?!? really? I thought Texas was the old west - but man, Baltimore has gotten rough baby...!

Notwithstanding, the blue city, red rural, poverty, it's also a reality that the regions where guns are most easily obtained "legally", the murder rate is highest. Obtaining guns illegally is also easier in those regions, or where those regions are reachable easily. balderdash - you telling me there is anywhere easier to buy an illegal gun than Washington DC or Baltimore Maryland? Oh, I guess Chicago...

So, given the politics, it's no surprise that the regions with the highest deaths by gun are 'red'.
Also no surprise that criminals will obtain the guns wherever easier and transport them to where there's demand.[aren't these points self-contradictory? Is it the state gun laws, the federal protection of the right to cross state lines, or the local lack of support for poor people that is the driving factor in murder rates? I will tell you it is the latter. The worst rates of murder (and murder by gun) are in notoriously democrat led cities. You live in one of them - I can remember driving right through the worst of it to get to the old memorial stadium, and have lived in two of the others (DC and New Orleans). You want the true test - where would YOU be the most afraid of someone holding gun? What is the defining political characteristic of that place?

Other developed countries have poverty like ours, whether rural or urban, and indeed crime and murder rates are higher there than in their more affluent areas...but way lower gun violence. Because guns are not easily obtained much less carried, legally, country-wide.[but are their murder rates any lower? you are blaming the instrument. But is the instrument influencing the outcomes?]

It's not going to be easy to reverse our gun crazy culture, [when you try to establish this as your baseline for the conversation - you are clearly biased]to dramatically reduce the number of guns, but there really are some common sense things we can do to move the needle....but it requires national solutions not state by state, as there's too much interstate bleed over...by criminals.

there is a lot packed in there MD. My comments in Blue, your comments that i have bolded are specifics of what I am referencing. (by the way, my comments probably read better backwards because I worked my way up

Is the American a different species or does the American have a different culture?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimat ... by_country

On a spectrum referencing the the same species, is the American culture normal or abnormal? Is this normality / abnormality attributable to the species or the culture? (Purposely circular).

[HooDat]

Back to equating gun ownership with murder.

Here are few inconvenient facts:

US gun ownership per capita: #1 in the world (and over 2x that of the second place country)

US Murder rate per capita: #89 in the world in the low single digits per 100,000 as compared to the worst 10 that average over 45)

Interestingly enough not one of the top ten per-capita gun owning countries shows up in the top ten per-capita murder rate list!

Gee, maybe it isn't the guns!?

edit to add this link (which you can match up to TLD's link) https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/mur ... untry.html