holmes435 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:47 am
Mueller referred 14 investigations to other offices that didn't fall under the Russia investigation, 12 of which are redacted.
Finances. It's all of Trump's shady finances. We all know this, right?
Yup.
And gotta remember that Trump didn't think he was going to actually win. This was about creating a media company on the far right, and about advancing international deals of all sorts. And of course ego. Being important, being paid attention to.
From the Russian point of view, they didn't expect Trump to win either. Their efforts were to damage the likely victor and to damage trust in democracy. The Trump campaign welcomed their assistance.
"But oh my, we won" and now "oh no, an SC...I'm f'd"
Further - she finds the missing part of the sentence:
Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities
Bold is the missing part, the second part is what Barr quoted.
Also:
The report describes actions and events that the Special Counsel’s Office found to be supported by the evidence collected in our investigation. In some instances, the report points out the absence of evidence or conflicts in the evidence about a particular fact or event. In other instances, when substantial, credible evidence enabled the Office to reach a conclusion with confidence, the report states that the investigation established that certain actions or events occurred. A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.
But since Trump is a sitting president, Mueller "determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes." Page 2 of Volume 2; page 214 of the PDF.
So because of the DOJ OLC position, it was literally impossible for Mueller to conclude Trump obstructed justice.
So he leaves it up to Congress and the voters. I'm totally fine with that.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
First, Trump is a horribly bad executive. He doesn't listen to advice. Then he does and says things that are dumb and illegal and counter-productive. And the people around him regularly (and wisely) ignore his orders and Trump never follows up. Great manager.
Second, Mueller confirms so much of what the fake newsers previously reported. They got almost all of it right.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
holmes435 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:47 am
Mueller referred 14 investigations to other offices that didn't fall under the Russia investigation, 12 of which are redacted.
Mueller suggested Congress could take action on at least 10 instances of obstruction of Justice (which Barr lied about).
'Mueller's office says they weighed charging Trump with obstruction, but didn’t in part because “we recognized that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting President would place burdens on the President’s capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional process for addressing presidential misconduct.”'
"With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice."
Donald Trump: “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m f*cked.” - Direct quote on page 290 - https://i.imgur.com/LZR6P3j.png
Page 158: "The President's efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests."
Grab your popcorn folks, this is going to be a wild ride either way.
Starting to think William Barr is not a great summarizer.
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am Mr moderator, deactivate my account. You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy. This is cradle and shoot signing out.
ggait wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:00 pm
The other take-aways.
First, Trump is a horribly bad executive. He doesn't listen to advice. Then he does and says things that are dumb and illegal and counter-productive. And the people around him regularly (and wisely) ignore his orders and Trump never follows up. Great manager.
Second, Mueller confirms so much of what the fake newsers previously reported. They got almost all of it right.
Third -- Mueller, a lifelong Republican who enjoys unusually wide bipartisan respect, is imploring the Congress to take his 400 page report and fulfill its Constitutional duty.
Barr reminds me of a latter day Thomas Cromwell post Wolsey.Come to think of it there many similarities between Henry VIII and Trump.Wives,peccadiloes,the moral compass's of their "trusted"aides,lack of respect for the LAW,disdain for "Iesser" beings etc.
I was giving Barr the benefit of the doubt. But man is he a complete tool/weasel.
Here's what Barr's letter to Congress aid (emphasis added):
"Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense. Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president."
So BARR thinks Trump didn't obstruct without regard to the policy.
But MUELLER's report shouts that the outcome on obstruction was 100% because of the DOJ OLC policy of not indicting a sitting president.
Bullshirt use of language in that way (technically not a lie but completely false and misleading) is why people hate lawyers.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
ggait wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:00 pm
The other take-aways.
First, Trump is a horribly bad executive. He doesn't listen to advice. Then he does and says things that are dumb and illegal and counter-productive. And the people around him regularly (and wisely) ignore his orders and Trump never follows up. Great manager.
Second, Mueller confirms so much of what the fake newsers previously reported. They got almost all of it right.
Third -- Mueller, a lifelong Republican who enjoys unusually wide bipartisan respect, is imploring the Congress to take his 400 page report and fulfill its Constitutional duty.
There is very little in this report or the Barr behavior that we have witnessed that should surprise anyone - given my very quick read. I am sure as we spend more time there may be a few interesting tidbits. We need the full unredacted report to go to congress.
BHO is on record in the rose garden in OCT 2016, "said nobody can influence our election." Hmmmm, why'd he say that. My guess, so there would be no argument about Russian collusion for the "Right" to use when HRC won....oops, that backfired.
All the FBI, FISA court, SC stuff is post election damage control....we are all getting played, all of us. The left dropped a political time bomb and we ALL suffered the consequences.
This was a political left hit job, that the left lost "this time". And frankly, when HRC said all 17 agencies agreed the Russians were involved, fact checked and backed by all 17 agencies....that was a pre-orchestrated talking point to dissuade DJT voters...oops, that also backfired.
The special group they are all in is something we will never understand or even comprehend how they sleep at night....some of the are just pure power hungry evil.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:35 pmThis was a political left hit job, that the left lost "this time".
A Republican appointed by a Republican to investigate a Republican for firing Comey along with investigating Russian's interference in the election. Sounds like a total lefty hit job.
On a slightly different note, this is an interesting paragraph from the report:
Candidate Trump made public statements that included the following: "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing"...Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office. After candidate Trump's remarks, Unit 26165 created and sent malicious links targeting 15 email accounts....The investigation did not find evidence of earlier GRU attempts to compromise accounts hosted on this domain. It is unclear how the GRU was able to identify these email accounts, which were not public.,
youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:35 pmThis was a political left hit job, that the left lost "this time".
A Republican appointed by a Republican to investigate a Republican for firing Comey along with investigating Russian's interference in the election. Sounds like a total lefty hit job.
On a slightly different note, this is an interesting paragraph from the report:
Candidate Trump made public statements that included the following: "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing"...Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office. After candidate Trump's remarks, Unit 26165 created and sent malicious links targeting 15 email accounts....The investigation did not find evidence of earlier GRU attempts to compromise accounts hosted on this domain. It is unclear how the GRU was able to identify these email accounts, which were not public.,
Sarah Huck Sanders admits in her interview with Mueller team that her statements to the press about why/how Comey was fired "were not founded on anything." Page 288 of the PDF.
That section, summarizing how Trump demanded that so many people lie about the Comey firing, is pretty compelling evidence that Trump is a completely corrupt POS. As are many of the people around him.
Which I guess we already knew.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:35 pm
This was a political left hit job
The left fired Comey? And appointed Mueller? And lied at every chance they got about anything surrounding Russia? And made Trump Jr., Manafort, Kush et. al.. meet with a Russian spy in a hotel?
Partisan nonsense. You know better than to sell this drivel.
On obstruction, Mueller specifically says that "we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes." Page 2 of Volume 2; page 214 of the PDF.
So Mueller says it was literally impossible for Mueller to find Trump obstructed justice because of the "can't indict a sitting president" thing. Mueller, therefore, didn't conclude Trump obstructed justice.
Even though the evidence shows Trump obstructed justice out the wazoo.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
You're assuming Republicans will let you say bad things about the Federal government, Ggait.