ODAC 2023

[InsiderRoll]

I think we can all agree W&L is a great school.

Back to the question at hand re: 5th yr and in some cases 6th year players. When is that going away?

Or is it a side effect of the COVID years that will be with us from now on. I think we can all agree that if a D3 school can enroll 2, 3, or 4 players that are 22-23 years old and have 4 years of collegiate playing experience, those schools will have an advantage over schools that can't or maybe won't.

How much of an advantage is the question.

Allowing those players that were screwed by COVID a chance to make some of that up was the fair thing to do and am glad the NCAA did it, my personal opinion going forward is, if you have completed you undergraduate degree and have been on a roster for 4 years that should be the end.

All of this will fizzle out for 2026 season in D3. So this years freshman will be the first to play a year not effected by excess 5th/6th year players.

It really doesn’t matter at the end of the day. Yeah it’s helpful if you can do it, but beat the teams in your schedule or don’t schedule them.

It has been cool to see some of these guys make some noise at the highest levels of D1

[smoova]

Allowing those players that were screwed by COVID a chance to make some of that up was the fair thing to do and am glad the NCAA did it ...

Not entirely correct: 2021 and 2022 high school grads were "screwed" out 1-2 years of high school lacrosse and, as a "fair" reward, get to enjoy college rosters stuffed with 25 year-olds on their 6th year of eligibility who cannot muster the stones to tear themselves from college's tender embrace.

[Unknown Participant]

Allowing those players that were screwed by COVID a chance to make some of that up was the fair thing to do and am glad the NCAA did it ...

Not entirely correct: 2021 and 2022 high school grads were "screwed" out 1-2 years of high school lacrosse and, as a "fair" reward, get to enjoy college rosters stuffed with 25 year-olds on their 6th year of eligibility who cannot muster the stones to tear themselves from college's tender embrace.

Hear! Hear!

[JustOneTime]

Allowing those players that were screwed by COVID a chance to make some of that up was the fair thing to do and am glad the NCAA did it ...

Not entirely correct: 2021 and 2022 high school grads were "screwed" out 1-2 years of high school lacrosse and, as a "fair" reward, get to enjoy college rosters stuffed with 25 year-olds on their 6th year of eligibility who cannot muster the stones to tear themselves from college's tender embrace.

I think it is way overblown how many 25 year olds are on rosters. Perhaps a few of the elite teams are able to keep some guys or attract some transfers but the majority of teams don't have guys staying past their 4 years. If a kid is really unhappy with the playing time they are getting they probably are not good enough. They could always transfer themselves and find a school that may be a better fit. Losing 1 to 2 years of playing in high school does really stink but they can't keep letting that dampen their college experience.

[smoova]

I think it is way overblown how many 25 year olds are on rosters. Perhaps a few of the elite teams are able to keep some guys or attract some transfers but the majority of teams don't have guys staying past their 4 years.

I have a freshman at one of the NESCACs mentioned several times above. The school does not accept transfers, does not have graduate programs and is subject to the NESCAC's "4 seasons and done" rule. When the 2020 season was cancelled, the entire team took at least one semester away from school to preserve a season of eligibility. There are four seniors on the 2023 team who are 25 or older. There are a lot of 25 year olds on D3 rosters.

Losing 1 to 2 years of playing in high school does really stink but they can't keep letting that dampen their college experience.

No one is letting the lost years "dampen their college experience" but many folks are tired of hearing the notion that the NCAA acted appropriately when it granted college kids additional eligibility at the expense of the younger players who lost more playing opportunities during the pandemic.

[JustOneTime]

I think it is way overblown how many 25 year olds are on rosters. Perhaps a few of the elite teams are able to keep some guys or attract some transfers but the majority of teams don't have guys staying past their 4 years.

I have a freshman at one of the NESCACs mentioned several times above. The school does not accept transfers, does not have graduate programs and is subject to the NESCAC's "4 seasons and done" rule. When the 2020 season was cancelled, the entire team took at least one semester away from school to preserve a season of eligibility. There are four seniors on the 2023 team who are 25 or older. There are a lot of 25 year olds on D3 rosters.

Losing 1 to 2 years of playing in high school does really stink but they can't keep letting that dampen their college experience.

No one is letting the lost years "dampen their college experience" but many folks are tired of hearing the notion that the NCAA acted appropriately when it granted college kids additional eligibility at the expense of the younger players who lost more playing opportunities during the pandemic.

The school your son attends and conference that he plays in is unique. I don't believe that it is as widespread as you may think. There are 247 D3 schools that offer lacrosse and most do not have 25 year olds on their rosters. I think the NCAA got it right by not counting 2020 as a year of eligibility.

[OSVAlacrosse]

I think it is way overblown how many 25 year olds are on rosters. Perhaps a few of the elite teams are able to keep some guys or attract some transfers but the majority of teams don't have guys staying past their 4 years.

I have a freshman at one of the NESCACs mentioned several times above. The school does not accept transfers, does not have graduate programs and is subject to the NESCAC's "4 seasons and done" rule. When the 2020 season was cancelled, the entire team took at least one semester away from school to preserve a season of eligibility. There are four seniors on the 2023 team who are 25 or older. There are a lot of 25 year olds on D3 rosters.

Losing 1 to 2 years of playing in high school does really stink but they can't keep letting that dampen their college experience.

No one is letting the lost years "dampen their college experience" but many folks are tired of hearing the notion that the NCAA acted appropriately when it granted college kids additional eligibility at the expense of the younger players who lost more playing opportunities during the pandemic.

I agree that 5th and 6th year players make the college lacrosse experience more complicated especially if this impacts a player who does not ever get a chance to get significant minutes as a result. For this reason, one could argue that it hurts teams with grad programs in a different way but may as much as those that don't. However, for the teams that make excuses, the players and team still have to be strong to start with. A mediocre player is not an AA just by staying an extra year.
As far as recruiting, W&L is in a unique position in my opinion as they are a highly competitive academic school which could limit the pool of potential recruits. Cost is also a factor I went through this with my oldest at W&L. There are some good scholarship programs but they are awarded later in the process. Not guaranteed. We had to settle for a lesser public university in Charlottesville and club lacrosse. I think CNU has the best advantage in recruiting and the 2023 class is one of the best in all of D3 in my humble but educated opinion. They have lots of high level players from the best DC area club teams. It is not just a COVID advantage teams still have to get the top talent to the school.

[smoova]

The school your son attends and conference that he plays in is unique. I don't believe that it is as widespread as you may think. There are 247 D3 schools that offer lacrosse and most do not have 25 year olds on their rosters.

The NESCAC is unique because the conference makes it so hard to stick around for more than 4 years. Regardless of the NCAA's myopic decision to grant additional COVID eligibility, the NESCAC only allows students in the conference to play 4 seasons of lacrosse. The conference didn't make any changes to its rules as a result of the pandemic. Take a run through the posts up thread in this ODAC topic (or in any of the other conference/program threads on the D3 forum) and you'll see long discussions of graduate transfers in and players taking 5th and 6th years at many different programs. If there are multiple 25 year-olds on NESCAC rosters, there are certainly many 25 year-olds on the rosters of most if not all of the competitively-relevant D3 programs.

I think the NCAA got it right by not counting 2020 as a year of eligibility.

The NCAA granted D3 athletes two additional years of eligibility.

[Hardhat]

Taking a stab at the rankings. I expect this year to be a down year for the ODAC. A lot of young talent in this league right now, but due to Covid, 5th years, and the transfer portal, it’s going to be hard to compete with the top D3 teams right now because they are all benefiting off of those things (Think CNU, Salisbury, RIT, York)

1. Lynchburg - They lose 3 AA level players on offense, but return the two best players in the ODAC from my POV in Mitchell and Darminio. Coach K always has these guys playing hard and I’d be surprised if they don’t make the ODAC Finals.
2. W&L - Very young team last year that returns some very good talent. Will be very hard to replace their goalie who single handily kept them in some games last year. Talented Freshman class and I expect Soph Hillis Burns to make some noise this year.
3. Roanoke - Return the best attackman in the ODAC in Kammerman. Very average everywhere else but they return the most out of everyone so it’s hard to put them any lower.
4. Hampden-Sydney - Lose their 2 best offensive players. Return mostly everyone else though. They have a good Defense and a great goalie. I expect their LSM Kilfeather to do well. Who’s taking face offs??
5. Randolph-Macon - I don’t think everyone realizes how much they lose. They lost 3 AA’s in Smith, Ruelle, and Averna. They also lost two 4 year starters in Marsilio and Tiffey. Their freshman goalie last year showed a lot of promise but he’s not on the team anymore. I’m not entirely sure how good they will be but I do know they will be leaning heavily on former ODAC ROY Jack Smith.

Pretty big gap

6. Bridgewater- best mid tier team in the ODAC and they do return some high scorers. Could see them upsetting RMC or HSC. How did they only lose to RPI by 2 last year ?!
7. Shenandoah - don’t have a great read on them. Lose some guys but also return some talented players.

Massive gap

8. Guilford
9. Va. Wesleyan
10. Ferrum
11. Averett
12. Randolph

I don’t think the gap between Shenandoah and Bridgewater with the front 5 is that big.

Shenandoah lost by 2 to RMC in 2022 and 1 in 2021. They played competitive games with HSC and Noke, both being within 2-3 goals in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Also a tied first half to Lynchburg before falling apart in 3rd quarter

Bridgewater in 2022 played competitive games with HSC, Noke and W&L before ultimately losing. In 2021 BC beat Roanoke in the playoffs and 6 goal victory over Randolph Macon in regular season. In 2019 BC also beat HSC.

[JustOneTime]

The school your son attends and conference that he plays in is unique. I don't believe that it is as widespread as you may think. There are 247 D3 schools that offer lacrosse and most do not have 25 year olds on their rosters.

The NESCAC is unique because the conference makes it so hard to stick around for more than 4 years. Regardless of the NCAA's myopic decision to grant additional COVID eligibility, the NESCAC only allows students in the conference to play 4 seasons of lacrosse. The conference didn't make any changes to its rules as a result of the pandemic. Take a run through the posts up thread in this ODAC topic (or in any of the other conference/program threads on the D3 forum) and you'll see long discussions of graduate transfers in and players taking 5th and 6th years at many different programs. If there are multiple 25 year-olds on NESCAC rosters, there are certainly many 25 year-olds on the rosters of most if not all of the competitively-relevant D3 programs.

I think the NCAA got it right by not counting 2020 as a year of eligibility.

The NCAA granted D3 athletes two additional years of eligibility.

Help me figure this out. It is my understanding that the NCAA has given 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility instead of the normal 5 years. Athletes can only play a sport for 4 years but they have 6 years to do this from the time they enroll at a school. 2020 does not count as a year of playing due to COVID. My question is does 2021 count? The ODAC and most other schools played a full season that year so if you played that year it counts as one year of eligibility towards your total of 4, correct? If your school did not play in 2021 you don't lose a year of eligibility as the NCAA extended completion time to 6 years, is that correct?

[2laxers]

The school your son attends and conference that he plays in is unique. I don't believe that it is as widespread as you may think. There are 247 D3 schools that offer lacrosse and most do not have 25 year olds on their rosters.

The NESCAC is unique because the conference makes it so hard to stick around for more than 4 years. Regardless of the NCAA's myopic decision to grant additional COVID eligibility, the NESCAC only allows students in the conference to play 4 seasons of lacrosse. The conference didn't make any changes to its rules as a result of the pandemic. Take a run through the posts up thread in this ODAC topic (or in any of the other conference/program threads on the D3 forum) and you'll see long discussions of graduate transfers in and players taking 5th and 6th years at many different programs. If there are multiple 25 year-olds on NESCAC rosters, there are certainly many 25 year-olds on the rosters of most if not all of the competitively-relevant D3 programs.

I think the NCAA got it right by not counting 2020 as a year of eligibility.

The NCAA granted D3 athletes two additional years of eligibility.

Help me figure this out. It is my understanding that the NCAA has given 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility instead of the normal 5 years. Athletes can only play a sport for 4 years but they have 6 years to do this from the time they enroll at a school. 2020 does not count as a year of playing due to COVID. My question is does 2021 count? The ODAC and most other schools played a full season that year so if you played that year it counts as one year of eligibility towards your total of 4, correct? If your school did not play in 2021 you don't lose a year of eligibility as the NCAA extended completion time to 6 years, is that correct?

Incorrect, 2021 did not count for anyone in D3 regardless of how many games played. So players in say the ODAC, which played a full 2021 season, could play 5 full season plus the shortened covid season.

[JustOneTime]

Well that does not make much sense. I can now see why many folks are upset about this. I thought it was just the one year kids got back. I still don't think too many kids are going to stick around to play that "second" extra year.

[Jumbo]

Well that does not make much sense. I can now see why many folks are upset about this. I thought it was just the one year kids got back. I still don't think too many kids are going to stick around to play that "second" extra year.

It’s not about the 6th year. But it will allow the extra year up til 2025. So kids that were freshman last year or this year, will be competing with kids that have already played 4 full years and should have graduated.

[UpperCorner22]

The school your son attends and conference that he plays in is unique. I don't believe that it is as widespread as you may think. There are 247 D3 schools that offer lacrosse and most do not have 25 year olds on their rosters.

The NESCAC is unique because the conference makes it so hard to stick around for more than 4 years. Regardless of the NCAA's myopic decision to grant additional COVID eligibility, the NESCAC only allows students in the conference to play 4 seasons of lacrosse. The conference didn't make any changes to its rules as a result of the pandemic. Take a run through the posts up thread in this ODAC topic (or in any of the other conference/program threads on the D3 forum) and you'll see long discussions of graduate transfers in and players taking 5th and 6th years at many different programs. If there are multiple 25 year-olds on NESCAC rosters, there are certainly many 25 year-olds on the rosters of most if not all of the competitively-relevant D3 programs.

I think the NCAA got it right by not counting 2020 as a year of eligibility.

The NCAA granted D3 athletes two additional years of eligibility.

Help me figure this out. It is my understanding that the NCAA has given 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility instead of the normal 5 years. Athletes can only play a sport for 4 years but they have 6 years to do this from the time they enroll at a school. 2020 does not count as a year of playing due to COVID. My question is does 2021 count? The ODAC and most other schools played a full season that year so if you played that year it counts as one year of eligibility towards your total of 4, correct? If your school did not play in 2021 you don't lose a year of eligibility as the NCAA extended completion time to 6 years, is that correct?

Incorrect, 2021 did not count for anyone in D3 regardless of how many games played. So players in say the ODAC, which played a full 2021 season, could play 5 full season plus the shortened covid season.

I thought it only didn't count as a season for you if you played less than a half schedule. If you normally played 15 games - and you played 8 in 2021 - i thought it counted as a year of eligibility. Just what I thought - wouldn't put money on it.

[allthingsODAC]

Does anyone know why some teams like HSC play avert, Randolph, and Ferrum while others only play one or two, for example, LYN or W&L. Is this a choice or required? Yes its nice to have some games like those for young guys but if I were one of the top four ODAC's fighting for NCAA bids I'd much rather pick up strong out-of-conference games then have to play these three.

[Ol'Southlacrosse]

Feel like this year is a big year in terms of ODAC going forward, seemed to be down last year (based on NCAA Tournament results). Hopefully, we get some great play. I love this conference and love when they are making tournament runs. Based on what I've read and even seen in some fall ball highlights I think the ODAC looks strong and obviously "pros" agree after initial preseason rankings. It feels like this year we may see LYN get dethroned. I could be wrong but the last time a team won three straight was when Noke made those historic runs back in the day. Im excited!

[JustOneTime]

Does anyone know why some teams like HSC play avert, Randolph, and Ferrum while others only play one or two, for example, LYN or W&L. Is this a choice or required? Yes its nice to have some games like those for young guys but if I were one of the top four ODAC's fighting for NCAA bids I'd much rather pick up strong out-of-conference games then have to play these three.

I'm not positive but I thought I heard that it will flip flop each year. So this year HSC has to play all three of the bottom teams but next year in will be another team like Lynchburg. It does bring down their strength of schedule big time. I love the ODAC as well but having the non competitive teams is really bad for lacrosse. Not sure about the other sports.

[Dehuntshigwa’es]

My understanding is practices were held in 61 degree weather in ODAC territory. Now that’s a real recruiting advantage

[ConcordetoODAC]

[/quote]

Help me figure this out. It is my understanding that the NCAA has given 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility instead of the normal 5 years. Athletes can only play a sport for 4 years but they have 6 years to do this from the time they enroll at a school. 2020 does not count as a year of playing due to COVID. My question is does 2021 count? The ODAC and most other schools played a full season that year so if you played that year it counts as one year of eligibility towards your total of 4, correct? If your school did not play in 2021 you don't lose a year of eligibility as the NCAA extended completion time to 6 years, is that correct?
[/quote]

Most ODAC schools played 7 or fewer games in 2020. Season cancelled/null. In 2021, some ODAC schools only allowed Conference games. VWU was hit by Covid a number of times and only played 7 games. Players on rosters from ODAC teams those two years played fewer games in two seasons rather than a full regular season.

As for who stayed and why, every case is different and none of us really know the motivation or reason for continuing to play. Maybe having the chance to play more lacrosse is silver lining. What is done is done as far as the NCAA. Was it fair to HS recruits, maybe not. Was it fair to every athlete, maybe not.

Looking forward to reading breakdowns and commentary on games, I'm ready for more ODAC lacrosse.

[ConcordetoODAC]

Allowing those players that were screwed by COVID a chance to make some of that up was the fair thing to do and am glad the NCAA did it ...

Not entirely correct: 2021 and 2022 high school grads were "screwed" out 1-2 years of high school lacrosse and, as a "fair" reward, get to enjoy college rosters stuffed with 25 year-olds on their 6th year of eligibility who cannot muster the stones to tear themselves from college's tender embrace.

I think it is way overblown how many 25 year olds are on rosters. Perhaps a few of the elite teams are able to keep some guys or attract some transfers but the majority of teams don't have guys staying past their 4 years. If a kid is really unhappy with the playing time they are getting they probably are not good enough. They could always transfer themselves and find a school that may be a better fit. Losing 1 to 2 years of playing in high school does really stink but they can't keep letting that dampen their college experience.

I agree with this, I don't believe there is empirical data to support "rosters stuffed with 25 year olds." Southern Virginia University is a Mormon school, many of their players did mission work after HS and enter college older, their roster is a bit older. But there is also the point that there isn't much difference in the 22 yr old player than say, a 24 yr old player. There are 18-19 yr old freshman competing weekly against 22 yr olds with 3 or more years of experience. Talent and skill are the great equalizer. College lacrosse has two types of players, those who play and those who don't. And those who don't play in games are equally important to the development of the team and deserve just as much credit for the success of the program.

Look at historical rosters across D3 teams. Freshman/sophomore heavy, a lower number juniors/seniors (often those who get playing). A lot of athletes see the writing on the wall and leave programs to have a more traditional college experience or transfer to another school to play club or not at all.