Recruiting, the exact science

D1 Mens Lacrosse
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23930
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Laxdad2021 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:14 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:34 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:01 am
wgdsr wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:42 am
AreaLax wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:30 am
wgdsr wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:05 am it's october 12 and we have the first '25 on the board. fwiw, it looks like he can play.
https://twitter.com/tyxanders/status/15 ... Jv7jA&s=19
and here we are.
He is re-class. Could be the UVA is stacking so many higher stars that he going the PG route to try and get playing time.
the push forward has been part of the discussion here.
He isn’t re-classing to look good against younger kids.
Right.
He already has the commitment, apparently.
If there was transparency about age and other attributes, it might well be obvious as to the logic of taking an extra year before college.
Could be he's relatively young, could be he'd benefit from more advanced academic preparation, who knows...it's a different path than doing a red shirt year, which is the more usual option if a coach simply wants to stockpile a player.
Except Red Shirting cost the school $$$ for the kid’s scholarship. You only get 12.6/year. By PGing school gets a kid a year older without the cost of using scholarship dollars.
That’s going away under NLI, give it a few years
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23930
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Farfromgeneva »

HooDat wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:52 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:16 pm
Laxdad2021 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:42 am What I am seeing is that at one time LI, Baltimore and a limited Upstate NY were the hubs of youth lax. It’s now moving to Southern CT. Darian, Greenwich, New Canaan and the like. Rich parents see Lax as a way for their child to get into a high academic school. Kid with a 1330 SAT and 95 average has zero chance of going to Harvard or Yale or other high end academic schools. Same kid who rocks it at Lax gets into those same schools.
These parents don’t care about $$$ and the cost of a private school education. They’ve been paying more per year to send their kid to Taft, Salisbury, Deerfield and other NE Prep schools. They are willing to pay for a PG year or a repeat grade to get their kid into these types of high academic schools.
They believe that the school will get their kid a better job and a better life down the road. They are probably correct.
Just look at how the club programs from that area have flourished over the past five years.
Just another reason why the general public looks at lax like they look at squash and crew: Rich white person sport.
hmmm, I dunno about the "moving" part, but the sport has definitely expanded to many wealthier enclaves around the country. (Northeast prep schools have long been a source of lax players going to say Ivy and NESCAC, not exactly a new phenomenon....and the hubs have only multiplied, not moved).

It's accurate that sports are an entry ticket to higher selectivity schools, and it's also accurate to say that those athletes choosing those paths have a pretty darn strong success record on average post college.

But the numbers of such players, from all over the country, has expanded significantly more than the number of slots at the most selective colleges. So, the difficulty of being one of those few selected for those particular schools has gone up a ton...indeed, you hear bitter grousing from some parents who'd assumed that all the dough they'd poured into Johnny's lax status would pay off, when it doesn't result in that selection. Yes, particularly from some of the areas you mention...that, too, isn't really new...in my era in the '70's alums were grousing when their kids didn't get the nod...competitive standards keep going up...and way, way up now. True for the whole school, not just the athletes.

It was interesting, yesterday, to hear the new AD at my alma mater discuss the importance they are placing on helping their coaches recruit from all over the country, the emphasis on contributing to the college's overall objectives, socio-economic, regional diversity, academic and leadership potentials, etc. As a school that couldn't care less about whether a family can pay the freight, they're interested in increasing the pool of athletes they attract, the best possible recruits across dimensions. That's more the case than not at most of the most selective schools.

It's a different dynamic with schools who need those full freight parents to balance the budget...
It appears to me that the relationship between the sport and the schools has changed dramatically over the past 2 generations. Lacrosse went from something that was essentially a club sport by today's standards (in terms of budgets and school commitment) in the 70's and early 80's, to a marketing tool in the 90's and 00's (promoting a preppy "collegiate" image), to an expensive recruiting tool today. It appears to me that colleges support lacrosse because it attracts a very unique student/future alumni.

- Your average lacrosse player's family can afford full price tuition (including being willing to burn $10k - $60k on a PG year if asked).
- Just as importantly, that same player as a result of family/prep-school/college lacrosse networks is far more likely to turn into an alumni who gives large sums of money to his alma mater.

Colleges today are laser focused on two things: fundraising and brand building. The "Warrior" LaxBro culture of just 15 years ago would never fly today - and I can't imagine the pressure coaches felt during the transition to eliminate that kind of culture from the sport. It undid many hall of fame caliber coaches careers... But to the extent lacrosse programs mind their P's and Q's, check a few boxes on DEI and pop out nice little check-writing alumni - they will continue to get support from administrations.
Of course the effects of this shift will impact the next generation or two of players and the sport at the college level.
Last edited by Farfromgeneva on Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23930
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Farfromgeneva »

HooDat wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:29 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:28 am
HooDat wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:58 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:44 pm I'm not sure that's as relevant today among the most selective schools with deep endowments, but do you think that applies to ACC and Big 10, as well as the smaller schools? Definitely true of the smaller.
Those "selective" schools have deep endowments precisely because they are laser focused on raising money and protecting (rather, perhaps, than building) their brand.

If you aren't chasing endowment money as a university president, you will not be the university president for very long. It is their 1st, 2nd and 3rd more important job. Even (especially?) at HYP and Stanford.
I’ve got an incongruous story for you on this topic that hits very close to home for me.
what a tease ! :lol:
Should’ve done this

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/show_ankle
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23930
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Laxdad2021 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:56 pm
oldbartman wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:16 pm IL recently came out with a list of additional 3 and 4 star players. Seems to be more fodder for the hype cannon imo. What could be an interesting idea for IL is to evaluate how their starred players improve beyond their sophomore years. I don't recall seeing players being re-evaluated after 10th grade. Rarely, if ever, do they put a previously unranked player in the 4 and 5 star category in their junior or senior years. Quite often the incoming top 100 freshmen seems to be a rehash of the top ranked sophomores/incoming juniors from 2 years prior.
That is incorrect. I counted 22 boys in last year’s (2021) class who weren’t top 100 before the final list came out.
We’re many above 60 or so in the update?

Reality is every year there should be 1-3 that skyrocket from unranked to top 40 or higher. The qualitative and limited analysis utilized would suggest a margin of error that would be at least 3-5% with half of those being significant errors.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
PulpExposure
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:19 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by PulpExposure »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:44 am
Laxdad2021 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:56 pm
oldbartman wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:16 pm IL recently came out with a list of additional 3 and 4 star players. Seems to be more fodder for the hype cannon imo. What could be an interesting idea for IL is to evaluate how their starred players improve beyond their sophomore years. I don't recall seeing players being re-evaluated after 10th grade. Rarely, if ever, do they put a previously unranked player in the 4 and 5 star category in their junior or senior years. Quite often the incoming top 100 freshmen seems to be a rehash of the top ranked sophomores/incoming juniors from 2 years prior.
That is incorrect. I counted 22 boys in last year’s (2021) class who weren’t top 100 before the final list came out.
We’re many above 60 or so in the update?

Reality is every year there should be 1-3 that skyrocket from unranked to top 40 or higher. The qualitative and limited analysis utilized would suggest a margin of error that would be at least 3-5% with half of those being significant errors.
Eric Spanos went from an unranked 4 star as a junior to 12th overall (and a 5 star) after his senior year. So that's one I know of at least.
FCCTlaxFan
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:59 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by FCCTlaxFan »

PulpExposure wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:01 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:44 am
Laxdad2021 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:56 pm
oldbartman wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:16 pm IL recently came out with a list of additional 3 and 4 star players. Seems to be more fodder for the hype cannon imo. What could be an interesting idea for IL is to evaluate how their starred players improve beyond their sophomore years. I don't recall seeing players being re-evaluated after 10th grade. Rarely, if ever, do they put a previously unranked player in the 4 and 5 star category in their junior or senior years. Quite often the incoming top 100 freshmen seems to be a rehash of the top ranked sophomores/incoming juniors from 2 years prior.
That is incorrect. I counted 22 boys in last year’s (2021) class who weren’t top 100 before the final list came out.
We’re many above 60 or so in the update?

Reality is every year there should be 1-3 that skyrocket from unranked to top 40 or higher. The qualitative and limited analysis utilized would suggest a margin of error that would be at least 3-5% with half of those being significant errors.
Eric Spanos went from an unranked 4 star as a junior to 12th overall (and a 5 star) after his senior year. So that's one I know of at least.
For the class of 2023 they are only did 4 & 5 stars - no 3 stars. It is a nice accolade for the kids but does not really mean much.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34672
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

FCCTlaxFan wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:54 pm
PulpExposure wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:01 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:44 am
Laxdad2021 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:56 pm
oldbartman wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:16 pm IL recently came out with a list of additional 3 and 4 star players. Seems to be more fodder for the hype cannon imo. What could be an interesting idea for IL is to evaluate how their starred players improve beyond their sophomore years. I don't recall seeing players being re-evaluated after 10th grade. Rarely, if ever, do they put a previously unranked player in the 4 and 5 star category in their junior or senior years. Quite often the incoming top 100 freshmen seems to be a rehash of the top ranked sophomores/incoming juniors from 2 years prior.
That is incorrect. I counted 22 boys in last year’s (2021) class who weren’t top 100 before the final list came out.
We’re many above 60 or so in the update?

Reality is every year there should be 1-3 that skyrocket from unranked to top 40 or higher. The qualitative and limited analysis utilized would suggest a margin of error that would be at least 3-5% with half of those being significant errors.
Eric Spanos went from an unranked 4 star as a junior to 12th overall (and a 5 star) after his senior year. So that's one I know of at least.
For the class of 2023 they are only did 4 & 5 stars - no 3 stars. It is a nice accolade for the kids but does not really mean much.
It’s meaningless. A kid 15-20 months older than the “on age” player isn’t a 5 star player……Just looks like a 5 star player at that point. When he lands on campus many will look like 3 star players.
“I wish you would!”
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6415
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by kramerica.inc »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:43 pm
FCCTlaxFan wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:54 pm
PulpExposure wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:01 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:44 am
Laxdad2021 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:56 pm
oldbartman wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:16 pm IL recently came out with a list of additional 3 and 4 star players. Seems to be more fodder for the hype cannon imo. What could be an interesting idea for IL is to evaluate how their starred players improve beyond their sophomore years. I don't recall seeing players being re-evaluated after 10th grade. Rarely, if ever, do they put a previously unranked player in the 4 and 5 star category in their junior or senior years. Quite often the incoming top 100 freshmen seems to be a rehash of the top ranked sophomores/incoming juniors from 2 years prior.
That is incorrect. I counted 22 boys in last year’s (2021) class who weren’t top 100 before the final list came out.
We’re many above 60 or so in the update?

Reality is every year there should be 1-3 that skyrocket from unranked to top 40 or higher. The qualitative and limited analysis utilized would suggest a margin of error that would be at least 3-5% with half of those being significant errors.
Eric Spanos went from an unranked 4 star as a junior to 12th overall (and a 5 star) after his senior year. So that's one I know of at least.
For the class of 2023 they are only did 4 & 5 stars - no 3 stars. It is a nice accolade for the kids but does not really mean much.
It’s meaningless. A kid 15-20 months older than the “on age” player isn’t a 5 star player……Just looks like a 5 star player at that point. When he lands on campus many will look like 3 star players.
100% accurate.
After you get past all the IL hype, it's why the talented kids who are playing on-age are highly sought after these days.
It's a college coach's gold mine, when you find an accomplished kid who is on-age. You know they have been "playing up" against kids 2-6 years older than them throughout high school and should have no problem transitioning to college.
OCanada
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by OCanada »

Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34672
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
+1
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23930
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Farfromgeneva »

OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Been pressing my son in this for more than a year now

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -actualize

Visualize to Actualize

Practice mental imagery to peak your performance.

Posted September 13, 2011
Scores of studies have been reported in the scientific literature confirming the advantages of mental imagery, or visualization, for performance enhancement. Olympians, mixed martial artists, and pros across all sports, use imagery to power their performance to higher levels. In fact, most athletes use mental imagery instinctively and spontaneously on and off the field. However, imagery can and should be used systematically in order to get the full benefit from this essential mental skill. Realize that with regular and structured practice the vividness and controllability of your images should improve.

article continues after advertisement

Strive to practice mental imagery three (or more) times each week for 10-15 minutes. Find a quiet place where you will be uninterrupted, and breathe slowly and deeply from the belly. Take yourself into the performance scene using all of your senses. Mental images can be experienced from an internal perspective, as if seeing through your own eyes, or from an external perspective, as if watching yourself from the bleachers. Experiment with both perspectives and use what works best depending on the intent of your imagery rehearsal. Do your best to make your images "3-D" and as life-like as you can. Imagery can be likened to playing a video game in your head, and the more you play it the better you will become.

What you choose to image should always depend on your objective. Realize that there are a number of important ways that imagery can be used to enhance your overall performance. Imagery is particularly helpful for maintaining confidence, as you can have as much success as you want in your head. Replay in your mind previous high points, or pre-play future success. In addition to "success," picture executing the ideal steps to achieve the success. Also, feel deeply in your body what the experience is like making the ideal play or shot.

Imagery is great for refining technique, rehearsing strategy, and performing various sports skills. For example, a running back can "see" and "feel" himself making a great juke on a defender, while a defensive end can "see" and "feel" himself sacking the quarterback, on the days leading up to the game. Imagery can also be used for resilience by anticipating what could go wrong, and then imaging a winning response - if x happens, I will do this. For example, a runner might image herself hammering through tough segments of a race during inclement weather, and past other runners, like a military tank that cannot be stopped.

Although mental imagery will not guarantee success on the field, it will increase its likelihood as you begin to master this tool. When Andre Agassi won Wimbledon in 1992, he expressed that it was like a déjà vu experience because he had won it in his mind countless times since he was a kid. In sum, replay all of your highlights in sport, and create new ones by using mental imagery as a key part of your training and performance.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34672
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:41 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Been pressing my son in this for more than a year now

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -actualize

Visualize to Actualize

Practice mental imagery to peak your performance.

Posted September 13, 2011
Scores of studies have been reported in the scientific literature confirming the advantages of mental imagery, or visualization, for performance enhancement. Olympians, mixed martial artists, and pros across all sports, use imagery to power their performance to higher levels. In fact, most athletes use mental imagery instinctively and spontaneously on and off the field. However, imagery can and should be used systematically in order to get the full benefit from this essential mental skill. Realize that with regular and structured practice the vividness and controllability of your images should improve.

article continues after advertisement

Strive to practice mental imagery three (or more) times each week for 10-15 minutes. Find a quiet place where you will be uninterrupted, and breathe slowly and deeply from the belly. Take yourself into the performance scene using all of your senses. Mental images can be experienced from an internal perspective, as if seeing through your own eyes, or from an external perspective, as if watching yourself from the bleachers. Experiment with both perspectives and use what works best depending on the intent of your imagery rehearsal. Do your best to make your images "3-D" and as life-like as you can. Imagery can be likened to playing a video game in your head, and the more you play it the better you will become.

What you choose to image should always depend on your objective. Realize that there are a number of important ways that imagery can be used to enhance your overall performance. Imagery is particularly helpful for maintaining confidence, as you can have as much success as you want in your head. Replay in your mind previous high points, or pre-play future success. In addition to "success," picture executing the ideal steps to achieve the success. Also, feel deeply in your body what the experience is like making the ideal play or shot.

Imagery is great for refining technique, rehearsing strategy, and performing various sports skills. For example, a running back can "see" and "feel" himself making a great juke on a defender, while a defensive end can "see" and "feel" himself sacking the quarterback, on the days leading up to the game. Imagery can also be used for resilience by anticipating what could go wrong, and then imaging a winning response - if x happens, I will do this. For example, a runner might image herself hammering through tough segments of a race during inclement weather, and past other runners, like a military tank that cannot be stopped.

Although mental imagery will not guarantee success on the field, it will increase its likelihood as you begin to master this tool. When Andre Agassi won Wimbledon in 1992, he expressed that it was like a déjà vu experience because he had won it in his mind countless times since he was a kid. In sum, replay all of your highlights in sport, and create new ones by using mental imagery as a key part of your training and performance.
I did a lot of that for basketball and lacrosse when I was in college.
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23930
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:41 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Been pressing my son in this for more than a year now

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -actualize

Visualize to Actualize

Practice mental imagery to peak your performance.

Posted September 13, 2011
Scores of studies have been reported in the scientific literature confirming the advantages of mental imagery, or visualization, for performance enhancement. Olympians, mixed martial artists, and pros across all sports, use imagery to power their performance to higher levels. In fact, most athletes use mental imagery instinctively and spontaneously on and off the field. However, imagery can and should be used systematically in order to get the full benefit from this essential mental skill. Realize that with regular and structured practice the vividness and controllability of your images should improve.

article continues after advertisement

Strive to practice mental imagery three (or more) times each week for 10-15 minutes. Find a quiet place where you will be uninterrupted, and breathe slowly and deeply from the belly. Take yourself into the performance scene using all of your senses. Mental images can be experienced from an internal perspective, as if seeing through your own eyes, or from an external perspective, as if watching yourself from the bleachers. Experiment with both perspectives and use what works best depending on the intent of your imagery rehearsal. Do your best to make your images "3-D" and as life-like as you can. Imagery can be likened to playing a video game in your head, and the more you play it the better you will become.

What you choose to image should always depend on your objective. Realize that there are a number of important ways that imagery can be used to enhance your overall performance. Imagery is particularly helpful for maintaining confidence, as you can have as much success as you want in your head. Replay in your mind previous high points, or pre-play future success. In addition to "success," picture executing the ideal steps to achieve the success. Also, feel deeply in your body what the experience is like making the ideal play or shot.

Imagery is great for refining technique, rehearsing strategy, and performing various sports skills. For example, a running back can "see" and "feel" himself making a great juke on a defender, while a defensive end can "see" and "feel" himself sacking the quarterback, on the days leading up to the game. Imagery can also be used for resilience by anticipating what could go wrong, and then imaging a winning response - if x happens, I will do this. For example, a runner might image herself hammering through tough segments of a race during inclement weather, and past other runners, like a military tank that cannot be stopped.

Although mental imagery will not guarantee success on the field, it will increase its likelihood as you begin to master this tool. When Andre Agassi won Wimbledon in 1992, he expressed that it was like a déjà vu experience because he had won it in his mind countless times since he was a kid. In sum, replay all of your highlights in sport, and create new ones by using mental imagery as a key part of your training and performance.
I did a lot of that for basketball and lacrosse when I was in college.
Sooo. Does that mean it’s effective or ineffective??? ;)
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34672
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:59 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:41 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Been pressing my son in this for more than a year now

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -actualize

Visualize to Actualize

Practice mental imagery to peak your performance.

Posted September 13, 2011
Scores of studies have been reported in the scientific literature confirming the advantages of mental imagery, or visualization, for performance enhancement. Olympians, mixed martial artists, and pros across all sports, use imagery to power their performance to higher levels. In fact, most athletes use mental imagery instinctively and spontaneously on and off the field. However, imagery can and should be used systematically in order to get the full benefit from this essential mental skill. Realize that with regular and structured practice the vividness and controllability of your images should improve.

article continues after advertisement

Strive to practice mental imagery three (or more) times each week for 10-15 minutes. Find a quiet place where you will be uninterrupted, and breathe slowly and deeply from the belly. Take yourself into the performance scene using all of your senses. Mental images can be experienced from an internal perspective, as if seeing through your own eyes, or from an external perspective, as if watching yourself from the bleachers. Experiment with both perspectives and use what works best depending on the intent of your imagery rehearsal. Do your best to make your images "3-D" and as life-like as you can. Imagery can be likened to playing a video game in your head, and the more you play it the better you will become.

What you choose to image should always depend on your objective. Realize that there are a number of important ways that imagery can be used to enhance your overall performance. Imagery is particularly helpful for maintaining confidence, as you can have as much success as you want in your head. Replay in your mind previous high points, or pre-play future success. In addition to "success," picture executing the ideal steps to achieve the success. Also, feel deeply in your body what the experience is like making the ideal play or shot.

Imagery is great for refining technique, rehearsing strategy, and performing various sports skills. For example, a running back can "see" and "feel" himself making a great juke on a defender, while a defensive end can "see" and "feel" himself sacking the quarterback, on the days leading up to the game. Imagery can also be used for resilience by anticipating what could go wrong, and then imaging a winning response - if x happens, I will do this. For example, a runner might image herself hammering through tough segments of a race during inclement weather, and past other runners, like a military tank that cannot be stopped.

Although mental imagery will not guarantee success on the field, it will increase its likelihood as you begin to master this tool. When Andre Agassi won Wimbledon in 1992, he expressed that it was like a déjà vu experience because he had won it in his mind countless times since he was a kid. In sum, replay all of your highlights in sport, and create new ones by using mental imagery as a key part of your training and performance.
I did a lot of that for basketball and lacrosse when I was in college.
Sooo. Does that mean it’s effective or ineffective??? ;)
I believe it’s effective. I would visualize before games and at halftime. I would visualize from my perspective covering an offensive player and then visualize myself from a third person perspective. I got to where I could toggle between the two perspectives.
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23930
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:59 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:41 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Been pressing my son in this for more than a year now

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -actualize

Visualize to Actualize

Practice mental imagery to peak your performance.

Posted September 13, 2011
Scores of studies have been reported in the scientific literature confirming the advantages of mental imagery, or visualization, for performance enhancement. Olympians, mixed martial artists, and pros across all sports, use imagery to power their performance to higher levels. In fact, most athletes use mental imagery instinctively and spontaneously on and off the field. However, imagery can and should be used systematically in order to get the full benefit from this essential mental skill. Realize that with regular and structured practice the vividness and controllability of your images should improve.

article continues after advertisement

Strive to practice mental imagery three (or more) times each week for 10-15 minutes. Find a quiet place where you will be uninterrupted, and breathe slowly and deeply from the belly. Take yourself into the performance scene using all of your senses. Mental images can be experienced from an internal perspective, as if seeing through your own eyes, or from an external perspective, as if watching yourself from the bleachers. Experiment with both perspectives and use what works best depending on the intent of your imagery rehearsal. Do your best to make your images "3-D" and as life-like as you can. Imagery can be likened to playing a video game in your head, and the more you play it the better you will become.

What you choose to image should always depend on your objective. Realize that there are a number of important ways that imagery can be used to enhance your overall performance. Imagery is particularly helpful for maintaining confidence, as you can have as much success as you want in your head. Replay in your mind previous high points, or pre-play future success. In addition to "success," picture executing the ideal steps to achieve the success. Also, feel deeply in your body what the experience is like making the ideal play or shot.

Imagery is great for refining technique, rehearsing strategy, and performing various sports skills. For example, a running back can "see" and "feel" himself making a great juke on a defender, while a defensive end can "see" and "feel" himself sacking the quarterback, on the days leading up to the game. Imagery can also be used for resilience by anticipating what could go wrong, and then imaging a winning response - if x happens, I will do this. For example, a runner might image herself hammering through tough segments of a race during inclement weather, and past other runners, like a military tank that cannot be stopped.

Although mental imagery will not guarantee success on the field, it will increase its likelihood as you begin to master this tool. When Andre Agassi won Wimbledon in 1992, he expressed that it was like a déjà vu experience because he had won it in his mind countless times since he was a kid. In sum, replay all of your highlights in sport, and create new ones by using mental imagery as a key part of your training and performance.
I did a lot of that for basketball and lacrosse when I was in college.
Sooo. Does that mean it’s effective or ineffective??? ;)
I believe it’s effective. I would visualize before games and at halftime. I would visualize from my perspective covering an offensive player and then visualize myself from a third person perspective. I got to where I could toggle between the two perspectives.
Come on man! I was busting balls.

If I were doing that w BBall I’d be visualizing myself as a cross between teen Wolf and coffee black.

Instead I focus my energy on pre cocaine Dirk Diggler crossed with patrick Bateman.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34672
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:26 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:59 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:41 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Been pressing my son in this for more than a year now

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -actualize

Visualize to Actualize

Practice mental imagery to peak your performance.

Posted September 13, 2011
Scores of studies have been reported in the scientific literature confirming the advantages of mental imagery, or visualization, for performance enhancement. Olympians, mixed martial artists, and pros across all sports, use imagery to power their performance to higher levels. In fact, most athletes use mental imagery instinctively and spontaneously on and off the field. However, imagery can and should be used systematically in order to get the full benefit from this essential mental skill. Realize that with regular and structured practice the vividness and controllability of your images should improve.

article continues after advertisement

Strive to practice mental imagery three (or more) times each week for 10-15 minutes. Find a quiet place where you will be uninterrupted, and breathe slowly and deeply from the belly. Take yourself into the performance scene using all of your senses. Mental images can be experienced from an internal perspective, as if seeing through your own eyes, or from an external perspective, as if watching yourself from the bleachers. Experiment with both perspectives and use what works best depending on the intent of your imagery rehearsal. Do your best to make your images "3-D" and as life-like as you can. Imagery can be likened to playing a video game in your head, and the more you play it the better you will become.

What you choose to image should always depend on your objective. Realize that there are a number of important ways that imagery can be used to enhance your overall performance. Imagery is particularly helpful for maintaining confidence, as you can have as much success as you want in your head. Replay in your mind previous high points, or pre-play future success. In addition to "success," picture executing the ideal steps to achieve the success. Also, feel deeply in your body what the experience is like making the ideal play or shot.

Imagery is great for refining technique, rehearsing strategy, and performing various sports skills. For example, a running back can "see" and "feel" himself making a great juke on a defender, while a defensive end can "see" and "feel" himself sacking the quarterback, on the days leading up to the game. Imagery can also be used for resilience by anticipating what could go wrong, and then imaging a winning response - if x happens, I will do this. For example, a runner might image herself hammering through tough segments of a race during inclement weather, and past other runners, like a military tank that cannot be stopped.

Although mental imagery will not guarantee success on the field, it will increase its likelihood as you begin to master this tool. When Andre Agassi won Wimbledon in 1992, he expressed that it was like a déjà vu experience because he had won it in his mind countless times since he was a kid. In sum, replay all of your highlights in sport, and create new ones by using mental imagery as a key part of your training and performance.
I did a lot of that for basketball and lacrosse when I was in college.
Sooo. Does that mean it’s effective or ineffective??? ;)
I believe it’s effective. I would visualize before games and at halftime. I would visualize from my perspective covering an offensive player and then visualize myself from a third person perspective. I got to where I could toggle between the two perspectives.
Come on man! I was busting balls.

If I were doing that w BBall I’d be visualizing myself as a cross between teen Wolf and coffee black.

Instead I focus my energy on pre cocaine Dirk Diggler crossed with patrick Bateman.
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23930
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:07 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:26 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:59 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:41 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Been pressing my son in this for more than a year now

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -actualize

Visualize to Actualize

Practice mental imagery to peak your performance.

Posted September 13, 2011
Scores of studies have been reported in the scientific literature confirming the advantages of mental imagery, or visualization, for performance enhancement. Olympians, mixed martial artists, and pros across all sports, use imagery to power their performance to higher levels. In fact, most athletes use mental imagery instinctively and spontaneously on and off the field. However, imagery can and should be used systematically in order to get the full benefit from this essential mental skill. Realize that with regular and structured practice the vividness and controllability of your images should improve.

article continues after advertisement

Strive to practice mental imagery three (or more) times each week for 10-15 minutes. Find a quiet place where you will be uninterrupted, and breathe slowly and deeply from the belly. Take yourself into the performance scene using all of your senses. Mental images can be experienced from an internal perspective, as if seeing through your own eyes, or from an external perspective, as if watching yourself from the bleachers. Experiment with both perspectives and use what works best depending on the intent of your imagery rehearsal. Do your best to make your images "3-D" and as life-like as you can. Imagery can be likened to playing a video game in your head, and the more you play it the better you will become.

What you choose to image should always depend on your objective. Realize that there are a number of important ways that imagery can be used to enhance your overall performance. Imagery is particularly helpful for maintaining confidence, as you can have as much success as you want in your head. Replay in your mind previous high points, or pre-play future success. In addition to "success," picture executing the ideal steps to achieve the success. Also, feel deeply in your body what the experience is like making the ideal play or shot.

Imagery is great for refining technique, rehearsing strategy, and performing various sports skills. For example, a running back can "see" and "feel" himself making a great juke on a defender, while a defensive end can "see" and "feel" himself sacking the quarterback, on the days leading up to the game. Imagery can also be used for resilience by anticipating what could go wrong, and then imaging a winning response - if x happens, I will do this. For example, a runner might image herself hammering through tough segments of a race during inclement weather, and past other runners, like a military tank that cannot be stopped.

Although mental imagery will not guarantee success on the field, it will increase its likelihood as you begin to master this tool. When Andre Agassi won Wimbledon in 1992, he expressed that it was like a déjà vu experience because he had won it in his mind countless times since he was a kid. In sum, replay all of your highlights in sport, and create new ones by using mental imagery as a key part of your training and performance.
I did a lot of that for basketball and lacrosse when I was in college.
Sooo. Does that mean it’s effective or ineffective??? ;)
I believe it’s effective. I would visualize before games and at halftime. I would visualize from my perspective covering an offensive player and then visualize myself from a third person perspective. I got to where I could toggle between the two perspectives.
Come on man! I was busting balls.

If I were doing that w BBall I’d be visualizing myself as a cross between teen Wolf and coffee black.

Instead I focus my energy on pre cocaine Dirk Diggler crossed with patrick Bateman.
Well s**t, now I’m going to have to watch that show!

I will admit it reminded me for a minute of my favorite player, Tom Chambers! (Rick Mahorn and Charles Oakley being my next two favorites)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s2kscQDQUNI
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34672
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:32 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:07 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:26 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:59 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:41 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm Executive Function Another consideration

Using Psychology Today’s definition


Executive function describes a set of cognitive processes and mental skills that help an individual plan, monitor, and successfully execute their goals. The “executive functions,” as they’re known, include attentional control, working memory, inhibition, and problem-solving, many of which are thought to originate in the brain’s prefrontal cortex.

My recollection is it is generally more or less matured by age 25.

There can be significant improvement in a 2 year period.

There is more than just physical development factors involved in athletic performance
Been pressing my son in this for more than a year now

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -actualize

Visualize to Actualize

Practice mental imagery to peak your performance.

Posted September 13, 2011
Scores of studies have been reported in the scientific literature confirming the advantages of mental imagery, or visualization, for performance enhancement. Olympians, mixed martial artists, and pros across all sports, use imagery to power their performance to higher levels. In fact, most athletes use mental imagery instinctively and spontaneously on and off the field. However, imagery can and should be used systematically in order to get the full benefit from this essential mental skill. Realize that with regular and structured practice the vividness and controllability of your images should improve.

article continues after advertisement

Strive to practice mental imagery three (or more) times each week for 10-15 minutes. Find a quiet place where you will be uninterrupted, and breathe slowly and deeply from the belly. Take yourself into the performance scene using all of your senses. Mental images can be experienced from an internal perspective, as if seeing through your own eyes, or from an external perspective, as if watching yourself from the bleachers. Experiment with both perspectives and use what works best depending on the intent of your imagery rehearsal. Do your best to make your images "3-D" and as life-like as you can. Imagery can be likened to playing a video game in your head, and the more you play it the better you will become.

What you choose to image should always depend on your objective. Realize that there are a number of important ways that imagery can be used to enhance your overall performance. Imagery is particularly helpful for maintaining confidence, as you can have as much success as you want in your head. Replay in your mind previous high points, or pre-play future success. In addition to "success," picture executing the ideal steps to achieve the success. Also, feel deeply in your body what the experience is like making the ideal play or shot.

Imagery is great for refining technique, rehearsing strategy, and performing various sports skills. For example, a running back can "see" and "feel" himself making a great juke on a defender, while a defensive end can "see" and "feel" himself sacking the quarterback, on the days leading up to the game. Imagery can also be used for resilience by anticipating what could go wrong, and then imaging a winning response - if x happens, I will do this. For example, a runner might image herself hammering through tough segments of a race during inclement weather, and past other runners, like a military tank that cannot be stopped.

Although mental imagery will not guarantee success on the field, it will increase its likelihood as you begin to master this tool. When Andre Agassi won Wimbledon in 1992, he expressed that it was like a déjà vu experience because he had won it in his mind countless times since he was a kid. In sum, replay all of your highlights in sport, and create new ones by using mental imagery as a key part of your training and performance.
I did a lot of that for basketball and lacrosse when I was in college.
Sooo. Does that mean it’s effective or ineffective??? ;)
I believe it’s effective. I would visualize before games and at halftime. I would visualize from my perspective covering an offensive player and then visualize myself from a third person perspective. I got to where I could toggle between the two perspectives.
Come on man! I was busting balls.

If I were doing that w BBall I’d be visualizing myself as a cross between teen Wolf and coffee black.

Instead I focus my energy on pre cocaine Dirk Diggler crossed with patrick Bateman.
Well s**t, now I’m going to have to watch that show!

I will admit it reminded me for a minute of my favorite player, Tom Chambers! (Rick Mahorn and Charles Oakley being my next two favorites)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s2kscQDQUNI
It was the good old days. EDIT: try to find it on YouTube or streaming. I watched it weekly. It was a great show. Reminds me of my youth.
“I wish you would!”
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34672
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Recruiting, the exact science

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

https://theathletic.com/3691009/2022/10 ... llege-nba/

“Five-star recruits that enter college younger than their classmates stick in the NBA significantly more often”

Well la di da….who knew!!
“I wish you would!”
jff97
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun May 08, 2022 8:06 pm

Men's Lacrosse Blue Chip Ratio

Post by jff97 »

With all the discussion that goes on about recruiting and whether rankings are accurate or not on here, I decided to apply the "blue-chip ratio" used by college football analysts to lacrosse. For those not familiar, the theory is that at least 50 percent of your roster needs to be blue-chip, or 4 or 5 star recruits, to win the national championship. TCU could put a big dent in this theory on Monday, but it's held up well for over a decade.
Here's more info if you're curious: https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/B ... 90039196_3

For these ratings, I used Inside Lacrosse's recruiting database, which gave out star ratings for players back to 2017. That allowed me to put a ranking together for the last three seasons, which I'll post below. The percentages are the amount of blue-chip recruits each team has had over the past four recruiting classes. Transfers are not included and aren't in the blue-chip ratio either due to the recruiting rules being different for transfers compared to incoming players. IL looks like they've given out more star ratings in recent, which could inflate the number of teams that make this list, but I think this is still a good metric that shows you need to recruit a certain base level of talent to compete in the sport at the highest level. The national champion for the 2021 and 2022 seasons are in all caps, while Final Four teams have an asterisk next to them.

2021
VIRGINIA 83 percent
Duke* 77 percent
Notre Dame 73 percent
Yale 70 percent
Harvard 65 percent
Princeton 64 percent
Maryland* 62 percent
Georgetown 57 percent
Cornell 55 percent
Johns Hopkins 54 percent
North Carolina* 53 percent
Ohio State 50 percent
Michigan 50 percent

2022
Virginia 92 percent
Duke 80 percent
Notre Dame 78 percent
Princeton* 76 percent
Yale 71 percent
North Carolina 67 percent
MARYLAND 66 percent
Harvard 63 percent
Georgetown 62 percent
Penn 60 percent
Penn State 57 percent
Cornell* 55 percent
Johns Hopkins 50 percent
Syracuse 50 percent
New: Penn, Penn State, Syracuse
Dropped Out: Ohio State, Michigan

2023
Virginia 92 percent
Princeton 82 percent
Duke 81 percent
Notre Dame 76 percent
Yale 71 percent
Harvard 68 percent
Maryland 67 percent
Georgetown 67 percent
North Carolina 63 percent
Cornell 61 percent
Penn 61 percent
Penn State 59 percent
Michigan 56 percent
Syracuse 55 percent
Ohio State 53 percent
Brown 52 percent
New: Michigan, Ohio State, Brown
Dropped Out: Johns Hopkins

Some takeaways:
-The number of teams has gone from 13 in 2021 to 14 in 2022 to 16 in 2023, which means more teams are recruiting at a high level
-This theory held up well for the 2021 and 2022 season. 7 of the 8 Final Four teams made the list. The only one that didn't was Rutgers, who had a 17-percent blue-chip ratio last year that slightly increased to 20 percent entering this season
-Georgetown is the only team not in the ACC, Big 10 or Ivy League that made the list the last three years
-Princeton is the team on the best upward trajectory, going from 64 to 76 to 82 percent blue-chip. Georgetown has been a steady riser too from 57 to 62 to 67 percent.
-Just because you have highly-rated recruits doesn't mean you'll win a lot. If you at the 247 Sports article, Auburn, Miami and Texas A&M all were in the blue-chip ratio and didn't make a bowl game. Still have to have good coaching and figure out how to best use the talent at hand.

This was interesting to dive into when I was bored over the holidays, so let me know what you guys think.
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