THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[DougELax]

to keep legs fresh, gotta rotate bench players in more often. But if they are inexperienced, that means a higher chance of a turnover or goal given up.

I know this thread had a long discussion earlier about keeping the big rivalry games (for posterity?). Personally, I think it's time to drop one or two in favor of some cupcakes. (Playing a cupcake doesn't seem to hurt Alabama's football rankings, nor has it hurt High Point's lofty lax rankings.) Sometimes you just need wins; a win over a cupcake can be better than losing top-ranked team week after week. But more importantly, the cupcakes allow the starters to rest, particularly the grinding positions like FO, while giving the second team some real game experience. A losing record with the #1 SoS is worthless.

Forget the home-and-home, why not invite new D1 entrants to visit Homewood?

But if you give the bench a few runs from the get-go, by now they wouldn't be inexperienced by now. Maybe that is why Duke seems to start slowly each year, but end up where we want to be in May.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Ding ding ding!

[51percentcorn]

Matters are worse because he was one of only a few guys in the upcoming class even listed as a midfielder.

No matters are better due to a quote from young Mr. Witman himself in the York paper - "I no longer have the desire to play lacrosse at the highest level." (insert joke here about the level Hopkins is playing at). Ergo - he was never going to play and he only would have contributed to all the issues associated with having too many players on your roster. I'm not saying our mid-field recruits for next year are stellar - have no idea really but this is not a step in the wrong direction - it just is what it is. An interesting sidelight in the coming year will be the 2020 class - supposedly filled with offensive players of some talent. What happens if Petro is not renewed and the poachers are let loose on that carcass?

But if you give the bench a few runs from the get-go, by now they wouldn't be inexperienced by now. Maybe that is why Duke seems to start slowly each year, but end up where we want to be in May.

The Duke model has several things to like about it. Fewer scrimmages - play as many games as possible - include some cupcakes - give your players some chances to play and experience success. Often start out talented mid-fielders as SSDMs - Lawson and Tripucka good examples - uber consistent class sizes and apparent consistent roster construction - 10-11 recruits per class - always seems they have seniors in big rolls. Of course - Duke has several recruiting advantages over Hopkins.
The question is - the only reason Hopkins season has any pulse at all is the wins over Michigan and Rutgers. Setting Zinn aside as the one that seemingly puzzles the vast majority of Hopkins fans - would Lilly/Mabbett or Degnon have helped you win those games? Otherwise - there is NO ONE ELSE and it is Petro's duty to try to win those games, especially if he wants to be the head coach past next year.

[flalax22]

Sounds like they are trying to address the SSDM issue but I don’t see much help coming in the way of offensive-minded middies who can dodge and shoot. The 2020 class might have a few. I have no idea if highly touted guys like Murphy can play midfield. Angelus is a classic X attackman. Someone mentioned Chauvette—pretty sure he’s not coming till 2020. He’s also an attackman through and through.

What difference does it make if the Jays have dodging or new offensive minded middies? Will they get playing time? Nope.
As I mentioned before if this staff returns we already know very well who is taking the runs. I was just informed by a friend that Concannon should be back. So that means there are no spots open. Maybe from below Smith takes Marrs spot and Cattoni will slide into his spot. I would play Zinn on the O side before every guy listed. The fact that DeSimone and his two goals are still running first line midfield is mind blowing. Add in Baskin Keough Stagnitta and you have to ask, does this staff want to win or not.

Concannon
Smith
DeSimone

Keough
Baskin
Stagnitta
(Cattoni)

[steel_hop]

The combination of bad luck/lack of foresight is pretty remarkable. This senior class is supposed to have:

1) Lane Odom—not really an offensive middie but could have potentially helped at SSDM (and, perhaps, by extension allow Zinn to play more offense?)
2) Jack Olson—was never clear to me if they intended for him to play middie or take faceoffs but in any event he transferred to Michigan and is no longer on the roster there either
3) Drew Supinski—we all know what happened
4) Henry Grass—highly touted A/M hybrid, transferred to Cuse and lasted in that program for all of like two months

Supinski is not even listed on Denver's roster this year. So for a variety different reasons for each guy, 5 of Hopkins 2016 middie recruits aren't even playing in DI. And reading between the lines because it happened at more than 1 school, it appears that talent is likely more of an issue than not - though I will grant that the evaluating a guys desire is a tough one. In other words, there was a complete wiff in evaluating their physical ability. This isn't a knock on those guys but knock on putting those guys in positions where they can't succeed i.e. over evaluating talent - though I have no idea how many of those guys were early commits. I'd guess more often than not they are earlier than later.

The other issue is that the offense is scoring points there is certainly an argument to be made that they leave points on the field.

[Big Dog]

UVa already up 9-0 in the first on another SoCon team (VMI). Everybody plays; starters can get some rest; backups get lotsa experience. Even the bench players can say they got other than garbage time minutes. A win does not hurt.

[ABClaxfan]

To make matters worse, one of our incoming midfield recruits (Cole Witman) recently announced he's playing at D2 Tampa instead.

I have nothing against Cole Witman but why are matters worse? When Hopkins 2019 recruiting class stood at 20/21 kids - you had to know there was going to be attrition - either by the recruit's choosing or Hopkins laying out the reality of the situation. If I remember correctly, the big deal with Witman was his dad played in the NFL? And he was described as a classic "between the lines" middie? I read that as - not incredible offensive statistics (or if so questionable competition) - maybe has some athleticism. Going to D2 Tampa may suggest he didn't have alot of options. Again, no knowledge of the situation but maybe look for more folks to leave the class and it would have nothing to do with Hopkins current record. Hopkins senior class was small.

Matters are worse because he was one of only a few guys in the upcoming class even listed as a midfielder. This is what we’re looking at:

Brett Handsor—plays on the wings for Culver. Projects as an SSDM
Quinn Chambers—pretty sure he’s already playing SSDM for Episcopal, recall Xanders or someone calling him “the best defensive middie in PA” or something
John Schreiber—switched from Princeton to us, his dad is an alum. Don’t know anything about him other than that
Edward Glassmeyer—athletic two-way middie, more likely to play wings/SSDM than offense IMO
Jacob Brunner—from Colorado, don’t know anything else about him. Fingers crossed he’s the next Rabil

Sounds like they are trying to address the SSDM issue but I don’t see much help coming in the way of offensive-minded middies who can dodge and shoot. The 2020 class might have a few. I have no idea if highly touted guys like Murphy can play midfield. Angelus is a classic X attackman. Someone mentioned Chauvette—pretty sure he’s not coming till 2020. He’s also an attackman through and through.

I may have some insight on Murphy, he’s an undersized attackman. He would probably struggle to break the lineup with Joey Epstein and Cole Williams coming back, but you never know. Realistically I could see him playing a similar role on man up that Pat Fraser had, but only as a righty shooter. Maybe he could eventually develop into a midfielder.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

How about recruiting ONLY midfielders, playing them as mids, and converting some to attack, some to SSDM/LSM, and some to close D?

I’m tired of this convert attack to midfield dung. Go the other way.

Throw in an occasional goalie too.

[DocBarrister]

How about recruiting ONLY midfielders, playing them as mids, and converting some to attack, some to SSDM/LSM, and some to close D?

I’m tired of this convert attack to midfield dung. Go the other way.

Throw in an occasional goalie too.

I like this idea. Kind of like recruiting only high school shortstops for a college baseball team (aside from catchers and pitchers) ... shortstops are almost always the best athletes on the team.

Anyway, Blue Jays have shown they can compete with just about anyone for two or three quarters. Unfortunately, games are a full four quarters. Petro and his crew need to figure out how to prevent the late disasters and play a full 60 minutes. Don’t know what that will require ... playing more players, making better adjustments? Who knows?

Well, Petro should know. He’s the winningest coach in Hopkins history and one of just a handful of active coaches who have won a national championship. The next two games against Penn State and Maryland are very winnable if the Blue Jays play a full 60 minutes and avoid their usual “lapses.” Probably the biggest challenge of his entire coaching career.

Next two games could determine whether the Pietramala era continues at Hopkins. I’m still rooting for the Big Guy.

Go Blue Jays!

DocBarrister

[viper]

How about recruiting ONLY midfielders, playing them as mids, and converting some to attack, some to SSDM/LSM, and some to close D?

I’m tired of this convert attack to midfield dung. Go the other way.

Throw in an occasional goalie too.

Penn State and Maryland are very winnable if the Blue Jays play a full 60 minutes and avoid their usual “lapses.”

This team hasn't come close to playing 60 minutes yet this year - even against teams like Mt St Mary's. So I wouldn't bet the loose change in my pocket that they suddenly wake up in the next two weeks.

[OCanada]

The notion you can wish it so and it will therefore become so is quaint.

I have neglected to add to my list of recruiting issues social life on campus. A recent recruit who went elsewhere reminded me of it.

Navy terminated Richie Meade because a bunch of elderly alums decided Navy could return to the 1950s. They can’t and I would argue they would have been better with Richie.

Gresham’s Law - Bad money drives out good

Obama argues recently against circular firing squads. Let me know who the survivor it is

[jhu06]

was looking for Petro's records vs top 5 opponents compared to those of Desko, Danowski etc, all I could find was something in the game notes that he's 32-35 vs top 5, a bit over 500 against 5-10, 600 vs 11-20 and 70-8 vs unranked programs.

[44WeWantMore]

I think the question at hand is not his overall record against top-five opponents, but the trend.

But, paraphrasing OC and A Fan: How would that trend have differed had somebody else been at the helm?
And somebody else who? Scotty and Chic are not available. Tierney the elder is not coming back, I have read grumbling about Tierney the younger, Marr has his ups and downs, so is Nadelen the only high-profile candidate left with JHU experience?

Outside of JHU experience (have we ever had a HC without it?) are there any realistic high-profile candidates? I cannot see any ACC coach coming, and Toomey seems happy at Loyola (not to mention the game was not close this year), so you are left with rolling the dice on a promising young coach.

[primitiveskills]

The notion you can wish it so and it will therefore become so is quaint.

I have neglected to add to my list of recruiting issues social life on campus. A recent recruit who went elsewhere reminded me of it.

Navy terminated Richie Meade because a bunch of elderly alums decided Navy could return to the 1950s. They can’t and I would argue they would have been better with Richie.

Gresham’s Law - Bad money drives out good

Obama argues recently against circular firing squads. Let me know who the survivor it is

When you get to the level of the individual recruit, every place has issues. Unless, for some reason, Hopkins' lack of social life only applies to midfielders?

[wgdsr]

There's been a lot of round and round on this thread about the root cause of this middling team. Talent isn't the issue. The size and athleticism issue is only a problem on the defensive midfield. Lots of teams have smallish offensive midfielders or converted attack that haven't struggled like Hopkins has this year.

really? like who? who is loaded at the midfield with about only small, converted attackmen?

maryland has 2, one on each of the 1sts and 2nds... and a bunch of productive mids. o state has several. and a bunch of big dudes and canadians yale a couple. they all have actual middies playing.

lots?

With only one player who can really create for himself (Epstein) - and he's really being forced into a dual facilitator-scorer role in this offense, which is a lot to ask of a freshman - defenses can pack in more and defend the knowns of your offense. Let Williams take forever to sweep around or back down his defender...right into a double team. Take away Marr's space. Let the midfielders alley dodge down the hashmarks of the field. They're non-threats on the run from 15 yards out, and there's no need to slide to them.

Talent ain't the problem. An out-dated system is.

sooooo...... what do you consider talent?

Penn State doesn't run many huge midfielders. If I'm not mistaken, neither does Loyola. Cornell has a mix, so does Yale. Denver has a mix. OSU flips LeClaire and Jasinsky between A and M. On Maryland's first line, the only true midfielder is Snider. Bubba and DeMaio are converted attackmen. Long on their second line is a converted attackman. Masci and Zawadzki are midfielders.

But if you read what I said, I said smallish midfielder OR converted attack. JHU's issue is that the talent they have doesn't match the system they're trying to run, especially in the shot clock era.

yes, i read what you said. and i do think the operative word here is and, not or.

penn state, loyola, cornell, yale, denver... regardless of size, run midfielders. and an attackman here and there. bubba (and bernhardt, their x guy now) would be prototype middies had they not been running mostly attack before college (along with some midfield).
hopkins, in contrast, has 5 attackmen running on the first 2 lines. 4 of them can be thrown in the category of "small". small doesn't necessarily keep you off the field at any position, unless that and your skill set does. at least at most places. joel tinney is the epitome of a midfielder. besides his physical stature, who on 2019 hopkins reminds you of tinney? 7 of the top 8 guys taking shots, by an almost 2 to 1 margin over everyone else, are attackmen. and the 8th played some of both coming in.

now take it to a recruiting angle to see some of the future. a top, stud midfielder sees all the attackmen running around playing midfield the last couple of years at hopkins. and maybe next year. they know, or should, that hopkins has been verballing at least 5 offensive mids per year. and none of them see the field? 1 or 2 guys? if i'm that midfielder, personally i'd probably be ok with bringing in 15 + classes a year... my expectation is that if i was good enough, i'd beat them out (though could see how someone might not love that idea). but if those 20 middies, if they're even still on the roster, are all getting replaced at my position by guys who can't win in their own spot? attackmen no less? maybe without the typical midfield skill set on top of that? gonna have a little problem with that one. i'm going to look at the teams who bring in 12 guys a year, don't have the attrition, and actually have midfielders play midfield. if you don't know what i'm talking about, you've never played midfield. and dug out gbs, or played d in the hole, cleared the ball... all for an attackman to catch and shoot a bunny on the unsettled and get the chicks.

[Wheels]

Get your best 6 on the field. That's it. Positions are meaningless in the modern game. Midfielders need to dodge against LSMs. With pick-and-roll being so prevalent now, midfielders have poles switched on them all the time. If they can't dodge against poles, they can't play. Few teams play true-way middies anymore, so even if a converted attackman gets caught back on defense, he'll run off when the SSDM covering him runs off. As for Bernhardt and Fairman really being midfielders who just play attack because they did in high school, we will have to agree to disagree.

OSU now follows the "get the 6 best on the field," too. Jasinski is an attackman playing midfield (he's quite small, too). Buckley and Bugliosi are attackmen playing midfield. Jackson Reid is listed as midfielder, but he's an attackman. Tre Leclaire ran through the box last season as a midfielder. OSU's pairs offense doesn't differentiate between attack and midfield.

it's all how you use your best 6. If Hopkins' best 6 include 5 attackmen, then the offense needs to fit that personnel. If not, you have square pegs. That was my entire point, and why if Petro stays, I won't be surprised to see a new OC come to Homewood next year. As for recruiting, you'd think the lack of "true midfielders" would be a recruiting selling point. Come to Hopkins...we need midfielders so badly that we're forced to run a bunch of attack at midfield.

I played midfield in college. The game has changed, though, since then.

[jhu06]

I think the question at hand is not his overall record against top-five opponents, but the trend.

But, paraphrasing OC and A Fan: How would that trend have differed had somebody else been at the helm?
And somebody else who? Scotty and Chic are not available. Tierney the elder is not coming back, I have read grumbling about Tierney the younger, Marr has his ups and downs, so is Nadelen the only high-profile candidate left with JHU experience?

Outside of JHU experience (have we ever had a HC without it?) are there any realistic high-profile candidates? I cannot see any ACC coach coming, and Toomey seems happy at Loyola (not to mention the game was not close this year), so you are left with rolling the dice on a promising young coach.

I think 1 ff and 0 titles in 10 years, 8-10 in ncaa tournament, with a missed ncaa tournament in 2013 and this seasons results tbd is going to be the case against. I don't count b1g tournaments as a measure of success. It's gone from a 2 loss team to a 4-5 loss team to a 6-7 loss team over the last 20 years. You do the trend line analysis.

[runrussellrun]

Let’s face it Hopkins hasn’t won a championship or possibly never want to championship, without a strong transfer on their team. Think about it as last time someone good transferred to Hopkins

[Typical Lax Dad]

Let’s face it Hopkins hasn’t won a championship or possibly never want to championship, without a strong transfer on their team. Think about it as last time someone good transferred to Hopkins

Was there someone after Bocklet?

[runrussellrun]

UVa already up 9-0 in the first on another SoCon team (VMI). Everybody plays; starters can get some rest; backups get lotsa experience. Even the bench players can say they got other than garbage time minutes. A win does not hurt.

Cupcakes. Cupcakes! Hopkins has been feasting on the Manhattans visiting Homewood for over a decade. But I understand your point which is useless because look who is still in the game up in Emmitsburg A few weeks back. What’s the point of getting fat on cupcakes if you’re not sharing the calories What’s the point of having a 7 to 10 goal lead heading into the fourth quarter and still keeping all of the starters in