All Things Russia & Ukraine

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27080
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:57 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:42 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:38 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:20 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:50 am
Brooklyn wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:43 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:40 am yup, "some people"..."jeepers"... :shock: :roll:

What are you saying, that the Founders would approve of financing such foreign entanglements??
The "Founders" would have had great difficulty of even imagining the world in which we live, and from which America has so prospered. Pretty sure they were quite thankful for the assistance of the French, though.

Have to be able to imagine this interconnected world and why it's so important that it continue to evolve towards freedom and democracy, principles our Founders espoused as not being unique to America, but rather as inalienable rights...but some things are more simple: a bully is trying to subdue though any means, any atrocity, a country it claims to have the right to do so to.

We have the capacity to stop that bully and to maintain an international rule of law that enables this interconnected world to continue to evolve along the principles our Founders certainly did articulate.
Exactly. Okay, not exactly my sentiments, but close.

Read this?

“The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution” — B. Bailyn

“The modernization of American Politics and government during and after the Revolution took the form of a sudden, radical realization of the program that had first been fully set forth by the opposition intelligentsia ... in the reign of George the First. Where the English opposition, forcing its way against a complacent social and political order, had only striven and dreamed, Americans driven by the same aspirations but living in a society in many ways modern, and now released politically, could suddenly act. Where the French opposition had vainly agitated for partial reforms ... American leaders moved swiftly and with little social disruption to implement systematically the outermost possibilities of the whole range of radically libertarian ideas. In the process they ... infused into American political culture ... the major themes of eighteenth-century radical libertarianism brought to realization here. The first is the belief that power is evil, a necessity perhaps but an evil necessity; that it is infinitely corrupting; and that it must be controlled, limited, restricted in every way compatible with a minimum of civil order. Written constitutions; the separation of powers; bill of rights; limitations on executives, on legislatures, and courts; restrictions on the right to coerce and wage war—all express the profound distrust of power that lies at the ideological heart of the American Revolution and that has remained with us as a permanent legacy ever after.”
This piece emphasizes the distrust of power, as inherently evil, albeit necessary.

It's a construct of limiting, restraining government, by various means... so as to enable individuals to be free as much as possible to pursue their dreams.

Important themes and a pretty good starting point for how I see our system and why it's a general model for any society to emulate, at least in core principles, though clearly not all do. The first part is the basis of why as a 'conservative', I think it's important to preserve the institutions and practices that do restrain and limit the exercise of power. The second aspect is more the basis of why as a 'libertarian' with 'liberal' impulses on various social issues I see importance to that restraint of government power.

And as a nation, operating in a complex world, I think it's pretty darn clear that we benefit when more of the world embraces these sorts of principles as well...though, we also face a reality in which some nations, some societies, have not organized themselves to avoid the corruption, the evil concentration and use of power to selfish ends, individual freedoms be damned.


I have repeatedly called for the dissolution of the military industrial complex and the de-militarization of police forces. Any truly principled conservative and libertarian would do the same. Society would be so much better if we did so.
Nice ideas, but need to be leavened with reality: humans scuk and always will. Certain actors such as Putin will need to be stymied or removed. Who is going to do that?

I abhor bullies. Putin is a bully, and, frankly, needs to be eliminated.

As usual, a trade-off between ideas and reality.
Brooklyn doesn't buy that human beings seek power, and power corrupts, and without restraint, people will do terrible things with that power to other human beings.

That's why we need policing and that's why we need a military...to restrain the worst impulses of those who would act horribly without such restraints, those who would accumulate power through force over others.

Of course, our own accumulation of power requires the same sorts of constraints and limitations, always with an eye to how power can corrupt.

The Founders did a pretty darn good job of creating a construct to do so...but it requires continued vigilance.
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

Brooklyn doesn't buy that human beings seek power, and power corrupts, and without restraint, people will do terrible things with that power to other human beings.

Did you need to lower yourself to post such delusional bullshᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢT?

How many times have I called for protection of Second Amendment rights and for the resurrection of the armed Black Panthers as a check against government abuses? In fact you have answered some of my posts on the subject.

Power corrupts?

Do you mean to say you've never seen my posts in which I've condemned the corruption of the Repukeblicons and all the horsh!t policies of the Reagans, Bush's, and tRumps of this society?

On several dozen occasions I have condemned the Falangists (Spanish fascists) for their corruption and political criminality. Again, you have commented on my posts. Now you suddenly have forgotten that you did so?


Buddy, Christmas is tomorrow. Not New Years Day. Perhaps you hit the Happy Hour at your local tavern. Can't even begin to imagine why or how you posted such delusional ideas like those above.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27080
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Brooklyn wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:45 pm
Brooklyn doesn't buy that human beings seek power, and power corrupts, and without restraint, people will do terrible things with that power to other human beings.

Did you need to lower yourself to post such delusional bullshᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢᵢT?

How many times have I called for protection of Second Amendment rights and for the resurrection of the armed Black Panthers as a check against government abuses? In fact you have answered some of my posts on the subject.

Power corrupts?

Do you mean to say you've never seen my posts in which I've condemned the corruption of the Repukeblicons and all the horsh!t policies of the Reagans, Bush's, and tRumps of this society?

On several dozen occasions I have condemned the Falangists (Spanish fascists) for their corruption and political criminality. Again, you have commented on my posts. Now you suddenly have forgotten that you did so?


Buddy, Christmas is tomorrow. Not New Years Day. Perhaps you hit the Happy Hour at your local tavern. Can't even begin to imagine why or how you posted such delusional ideas like those above.
Merry XMas Brooklyn.

I'll stand by my assessment that your philosophy does not recognize the importance of constitutional, legal constraints, balances of power, in the governmental organization, and thereby limiting government exercise of power to only the most necessary, including policing power to maintain safety and order and military to prevent aggressive despots...it's not a permission structure for armed revolts, as long as the government maintains those democratic, constitutional processes. Not everyone is happy with the current realities in a democratic, constitutional process. Expecting perfection is a fool's game, but demanding ongoing work is definitely important.

Instead, you pick and choose which government is just, based on your political preference, not the basic system.
Resurrect the Black Panthers???
Ok, got it.
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

^ In the comfort of your suburban ivory tower you do not see the reality of police attacking innocents on a daily basis or of their promotion of the drug culture as describe in Peter Maas's book Serpico. Having been raised in East New York where so much of "Goodfellas" took place and having witness police criminality for all these years, this is why I believe in what I do. Karma can be a bítch at times and mebbe some day you'll have the same experience as me. Then you will readily change your mind about things. That's a guarantee.

As for political despots we have enough of that here with the tRump's of this society. As for those overseas I again remind you that it was Republican Wall Street who financed both the Bolsheviks and Hitler. This is what leads to the Putins of this world. Bottom line being that their emergence is preventable.

There is not now, nor has there ever been any reason to become involved in any foreign wars. And if violence or injustices overseas bother you so much, let me remind you that the conflicts and injustices in East Africa are FAR worse than what we see in Russia-Ukraine. Thus, if you are so hell bent on having a war, why not march off there? As always, send us a picture postcard of your adventures as we will be only too happy to see you back up your words with action.

Political power and restraints? Again, I remind you of my objection to voting suppression as happens in the South, particularly in Florida where your pal DeSatan governs with his convenient rules. Remove those restraints, allow people to vote, give them equal access to voting booths, increase absentee voting, and we will truly have a democratic process. Your Republicans pals don't believe in any of that but you never seem to have any objection.

And then there's the corporate welfare state which you right wingers applaud. But that's a different story, ain't it?
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34070
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Sunday he's ready to negotiate "about acceptable solutions" regarding the war in Ukraine, according to Russian state news. A Zelensky adviser in response said Moscow "doesn’t want negotiations, but tries to avoid responsibility" as it continues to attack civilians.
“I wish you would!”
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27080
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Brooklyn wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:41 pm ^ In the comfort of your suburban ivory tower you do not see the reality of police attacking innocents on a daily basis or of their promotion of the drug culture as describe in Peter Maas's book Serpico. Having been raised in East New York where so much of "Goodfellas" took place and having witness police criminality for all these years, this is why I believe in what I do. Karma can be a bítch at times and mebbe some day you'll have the same experience as me. Then you will readily change your mind about things. That's a guarantee.

As for political despots we have enough of that here with the tRump's of this society. As for those overseas I again remind you that it was Republican Wall Street who financed both the Bolsheviks and Hitler. This is what leads to the Putins of this world. Bottom line being that their emergence is preventable.

There is not now, nor has there ever been any reason to become involved in any foreign wars. And if violence or injustices overseas bother you so much, let me remind you that the conflicts and injustices in East Africa are FAR worse than what we see in Russia-Ukraine. Thus, if you are so hell bent on having a war, why not march off there? As always, send us a picture postcard of your adventures as we will be only too happy to see you back up your words with action.

Political power and restraints? Again, I remind you of my objection to voting suppression as happens in the South, particularly in Florida where your pal DeSatan governs with his convenient rules. Remove those restraints, allow people to vote, give them equal access to voting booths, increase absentee voting, and we will truly have a democratic process. Your Republicans pals don't believe in any of that but you never seem to have any objection.

And then there's the corporate welfare state which you right wingers applaud. But that's a different story, ain't it?
And much of what you say I would quite agree with (excepting your notion that "foreign wars" are somehow to be avoided at all cost, except, it seems if they happen to fit your preferred conflict)...and yet we come to quite different conclusions about the legitimacy of government and institutions.

and then there's "your pal DeSatan...Your Republican pals...but you never seem to have any objection"...huh? Have you paid any attention at all to my strong support for voting rights and my disdain for fascist DeSantis and MAGA generally? Or are you so far out of your gourd to the left that you actually think I'm some right wing nut job?

Maybe you should do a little homework on my views, or ask me a question, rather than label me that way.

You think I'm in favor of "corporate welfare"???
True, I'm neither an anarchist or anti-capitalist, rather I actually want companies which successfully innovate in a competitive marketplace, and the people who manage these companies, work for these companies, and finance these companies, to be rewarded handsomely for these efforts, this risk taking.

And while I do think that there are, at times, industries in which there is a national interest in providing some period of time of support, but I darn sure want companies to not get fat on the back of taxpayers or slave labor for that matter. Nope, compete and win...or lose.

But perhaps you disagree.
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:22 pm

And much of what you say I would quite agree with (excepting your notion that "foreign wars" are somehow to be avoided at all cost, except, it seems if they happen to fit your preferred conflict)...and yet we come to quite different conclusions about the legitimacy of government and institutions.

and then there's "your pal DeSatan...Your Republican pals...but you never seem to have any objection"...huh? Have you paid any attention at all to my strong support for voting rights and my disdain for fascist DeSantis and MAGA generally? Or are you so far out of your gourd to the left that you actually think I'm some right wing nut job?

Maybe you should do a little homework on my views, or ask me a question, rather than label me that way.

You think I'm in favor of "corporate welfare"???
True, I'm neither an anarchist or anti-capitalist, rather I actually want companies which successfully innovate in a competitive marketplace, and the people who manage these companies, work for these companies, and finance these companies, to be rewarded handsomely for these efforts, this risk taking.

And while I do think that there are, at times, industries in which there is a national interest in providing some period of time of support, but I darn sure want companies to not get fat on the back of taxpayers or slave labor for that matter. Nope, compete and win...or lose.

But perhaps you disagree.

I've seen some of your comments on right wing radicals muted as they are. Rather boring stuff in all honesty.

Re "competitive marketplace" - let's eliminate all the corporate welfare, tax sheltering, and trickle down enrichment of the wealthy elite. Let those who want a war fight it themselves without so much as one cent in government subsidization. Not one single cent. Won't be much incentive for starting another war if there is no profit to it.

Oh by the way, as for the corrupt cops, the hanging tree for them is the ideal solution to all the problems they create in society. Singe their bodies in large fire pits, top it all off with kilo tons of dog shtt, and bury their worthless ashes in Devil's Island. Society will be so much better off for doing so. Lex talionis forever!
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34070
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Brooklyn wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:23 pm Miss Ukraine:


Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkjFgLSUUAABrrb.jpg



:o
That’s fantastic imagery
“I wish you would!”
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

Indeed! She rates well above that proverbial 10. ❤️
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27080
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Brooklyn wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:38 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:22 pm

And much of what you say I would quite agree with (excepting your notion that "foreign wars" are somehow to be avoided at all cost, except, it seems if they happen to fit your preferred conflict)...and yet we come to quite different conclusions about the legitimacy of government and institutions.

and then there's "your pal DeSatan...Your Republican pals...but you never seem to have any objection"...huh? Have you paid any attention at all to my strong support for voting rights and my disdain for fascist DeSantis and MAGA generally? Or are you so far out of your gourd to the left that you actually think I'm some right wing nut job?

Maybe you should do a little homework on my views, or ask me a question, rather than label me that way.

You think I'm in favor of "corporate welfare"???
True, I'm neither an anarchist or anti-capitalist, rather I actually want companies which successfully innovate in a competitive marketplace, and the people who manage these companies, work for these companies, and finance these companies, to be rewarded handsomely for these efforts, this risk taking.

And while I do think that there are, at times, industries in which there is a national interest in providing some period of time of support, but I darn sure want companies to not get fat on the back of taxpayers or slave labor for that matter. Nope, compete and win...or lose.

But perhaps you disagree.

I've seen some of your comments on right wing radicals muted as they are. Rather boring stuff in all honesty.

Re "competitive marketplace" - let's eliminate all the corporate welfare, tax sheltering, and trickle down enrichment of the wealthy elite. Let those who want a war fight it themselves without so much as one cent in government subsidization. Not one single cent. Won't be much incentive for starting another war if there is no profit to it.

Oh by the way, as for the corrupt cops, the hanging tree for them is the ideal solution to all the problems they create in society. Singe their bodies in large fire pits, top it all off with kilo tons of dog shtt, and bury their worthless ashes in Devil's Island. Society will be so much better off for doing so. Lex talionis forever!
yes, my opinions would indeed seem "boring"... to a radical left winger.
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:58 am

yes, my opinions would indeed seem "boring"... to a radical left winger.


Well, it was you who came up with the expression " right wing nut job". Now we know why.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27080
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Brooklyn wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:50 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:58 am

yes, my opinions would indeed seem "boring"... to a radical left winger.


Well, it was you who came up with the expression " right wing nut job". Now we know why.
:?: Because I'm able to see right or left wing nut jobs as such?
Yes, I'm a moderate.
Conservative in some matters, progressive on others, but radical wing? no.
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:27 am
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:50 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:58 am

yes, my opinions would indeed seem "boring"... to a radical left winger.


Well, it was you who came up with the expression " right wing nut job". Now we know why.
:?: Because I'm able to see right or left wing nut jobs as such?
Yes, I'm a moderate.
Conservative in some matters, progressive on others, but radical wing? no.

You sure? After all, one of the hallmarks of that group is its tendency to call anyone who disagrees with them as "radical left winger". Contrary to your beliefs, you gave yourself away with that one. ;)
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27080
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Brooklyn wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:38 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:27 am
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:50 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:58 am

yes, my opinions would indeed seem "boring"... to a radical left winger.


Well, it was you who came up with the expression " right wing nut job". Now we know why.
:?: Because I'm able to see right or left wing nut jobs as such?
Yes, I'm a moderate.
Conservative in some matters, progressive on others, but radical wing? no.

You sure? After all, one of the hallmarks of that group is its tendency to call anyone who disagrees with them as "radical left winger". Contrary to your beliefs, you gave yourself away with that one. ;)
"contrary to your beliefs..." :lol: :roll:
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34070
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

“I wish you would!”
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:41 am
"contrary to your beliefs..." :lol:

Joke's on you pal. ;)
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27080
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Brooklyn wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 5:46 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:41 am
"contrary to your beliefs..." :lol:

Joke's on you pal. ;)
:roll:
Anyone who thinks I'm a right wing nut job' is out to lunch.'
But you do you.
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10266
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Brooklyn »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:09 pm

:roll:
Anyone who thinks I'm a right wing nut job' is out to lunch.'
But you do you.

LOL. Anyone who "thinks" I'm from the extreme left or whatever label you people put on me is utterly delusional. Best just to discuss facts and to dispense with the labeling.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”