Thought this was a good article and overview of the J6 Commission's findings and referral:
https://www.thebulwark.com/four-crimes- ... for-trump/
The part on the scheme of fake electors ("Conspiracy to Make a False Statement") really interested me. Here's some of the text:
"'The certifications signed by Trump electors in multiple States were patently false,” the report says. “Vice President Biden won each of those States, and the relevant State authorities had so certified. It can hardly be disputed that the false slates of electors were material, as nothing can be more material to the Joint Session of Congress to certify the election than the question of which candidate won which States.'
The report notes that while some of the signatories may have believed the certificates would only be used if Trump won relevant legal cases challenging the results, that rationale cannot apply to Trump himself: “President Trump (including acting through co-conspirators such as John Eastman and Kenneth Chesebro) relied on the existence of those fake electors as a basis for asserting that the Vice President could reject or delay certification of the Biden electors,” the report explains.
The only “remaining question is who engaged in this conspiracy,” committee investigators write. Who might some of those people be? For one, the report specifically names Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel:
Anticipating that the Eastman strategy for January 6th would be implemented, President Trump worked with a handful of others to prepare a series of false Trump electoral slates for seven States Biden actually won. President Trump personally conducted a teleconference with Eastman and Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel “a few days before December 14” and solicited the RNC’s assistance with the scheme. McDaniel agreed to provide that assistance.
In sum:
The evidence indicates that he entered into an agreement with Eastman and others to make the false statement (the fake electoral certificates), by deceitful or dishonest means, and at least one member of the conspiracy engaged in at least one overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy (e.g. President Trump and Eastman’s call to Ronna McDaniel)."
Here's another summary: The defeated President, a right-wing lawyer and former clerk to Clarence Thomas, and the RNC Chair conspired to mock up false documents intended to be used to derail an official proceeding necessary to the proper and peaceful transfer of power after a national election.
January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna61935
"Jan. 6 committee avoids criticizing law enforcement in report summary
The committee was charged with examining law enforcement and intelligence failures. Analysis was largely left out of the introduction, with the full report expected this week."
The committee does not do themselves any favors by omitting this important information from the summary - can only hope it is in the main report
"Jan. 6 committee avoids criticizing law enforcement in report summary
The committee was charged with examining law enforcement and intelligence failures. Analysis was largely left out of the introduction, with the full report expected this week."
The committee does not do themselves any favors by omitting this important information from the summary - can only hope it is in the main report
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Agreed.Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:46 am https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna61935
"Jan. 6 committee avoids criticizing law enforcement in report summary
The committee was charged with examining law enforcement and intelligence failures. Analysis was largely left out of the introduction, with the full report expected this week."
The committee does not do themselves any favors by omitting this important information from the summary - can only hope it is in the main report
- MDlaxfan76
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
+1Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:44 amAgreed.Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:46 am https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna61935
"Jan. 6 committee avoids criticizing law enforcement in report summary
The committee was charged with examining law enforcement and intelligence failures. Analysis was largely left out of the introduction, with the full report expected this week."
The committee does not do themselves any favors by omitting this important information from the summary - can only hope it is in the main report
Hopefully they can communicate both 1) the amazing bravery of those on the line and 2) the source of the failures to anticipate that the MAGA crowd would turn violent despite so many signals (in retrospect) that this was actually probable. And that the likely target was specifically the vote counting at the Capitol.
#2 can be nuanced, looking at biases as well as communication failures, as well as, most importantly, any active efforts to suppress preparation.
It would be interesting to understand what IC and law enforcement were actually imagining and discussing might happen...my impression from reporting is that there was expectation of potential violence between MAGA hard right, white nationalists, etc and counter protestors, whether Antifa or other, but there was definitely this stream of focus on the Jan 6 count...why was this not understood? Bias? Active suppression? Or just failure to communicate?
Did anyone discuss it at all?
Did they just not imagine that a sitting POTUS would fire up a crowd he knew was armed and ready for violence and direct them at the Capitol?
It's possible that they still don't really know...
- cradleandshoot
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Point of order young man. Some of the people involved in the march on the capital chose violence. The vast majority of them, including one of your family members just wanted to express their anger at what they believe to be problems with our election system. They had every right to bring their protest to the steps of our capital. The vast majority did not behave like an unruly bunch of hooligans. When seeing the attack on the capital most of them turned around and left. Isn't that the same rational we heard about all of the protests from the other side that turned violent? THE MAJORITY OF PROTESTERS WERE PEACEFUL. Is it your opinion these disgruntled folks had no right to protest an election? I spent 3 years of my life defending that concept. I don't have to agree with what is being debated via public protest. I will always defend the right to do so whether it involves doing so at our nations capital or doing it on Main Street USA. It is the doing so in a peaceful manner that becomes problematic.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:58 am+1Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:44 amAgreed.Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:46 am https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna61935
"Jan. 6 committee avoids criticizing law enforcement in report summary
The committee was charged with examining law enforcement and intelligence failures. Analysis was largely left out of the introduction, with the full report expected this week."
The committee does not do themselves any favors by omitting this important information from the summary - can only hope it is in the main report
Hopefully they can communicate both 1) the amazing bravery of those on the line and 2) the source of the failures to anticipate that the MAGA crowd would turn violent despite so many signals (in retrospect) that this was actually probable. And that the likely target was specifically the vote counting at the Capitol.
#2 can be nuanced, looking at biases as well as communication failures, as well as, most importantly, any active efforts to suppress preparation.
It would be interesting to understand what IC and law enforcement were actually imagining and discussing might happen...my impression from reporting is that there was expectation of potential violence between MAGA hard right, white nationalists, etc and counter protestors, whether Antifa or other, but there was definitely this stream of focus on the Jan 6 count...why was this not understood? Bias? Active suppression? Or just failure to communicate?
Did anyone discuss it at all?
Did they just not imagine that a sitting POTUS would fire up a crowd he knew was armed and ready for violence and direct them at the Capitol?
It's possible that they still don't really know...
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
Bob Ross:
- MDlaxfan76
- Posts: 27219
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
A few logic problems with your rant, "old man"...cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:17 amPoint of order young man. Some of the people involved in the march on the capital chose violence. The vast majority of them, including one of your family members just wanted to express their anger at what they believe to be problems with our election system. They had every right to bring their protest to the steps of our capital. The vast majority did not behave like an unruly bunch of hooligans. When seeing the attack on the capital most of them turned around and left. Isn't that the same rational we heard about all of the protests from the other side that turned violent? THE MAJORITY OF PROTESTERS WERE PEACEFUL. Is it your opinion these disgruntled folks had no right to protest an election? I spent 3 years of my life defending that concept. I don't have to agree with what is being debated via public protest. I will always defend the right to do so whether it involves doing so at our nations capital or doing it on Main Street USA. It is the doing so in a peaceful manner that becomes problematic.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:58 am+1Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:44 amAgreed.Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:46 am https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna61935
"Jan. 6 committee avoids criticizing law enforcement in report summary
The committee was charged with examining law enforcement and intelligence failures. Analysis was largely left out of the introduction, with the full report expected this week."
The committee does not do themselves any favors by omitting this important information from the summary - can only hope it is in the main report
Hopefully they can communicate both 1) the amazing bravery of those on the line and 2) the source of the failures to anticipate that the MAGA crowd would turn violent despite so many signals (in retrospect) that this was actually probable. And that the likely target was specifically the vote counting at the Capitol.
#2 can be nuanced, looking at biases as well as communication failures, as well as, most importantly, any active efforts to suppress preparation.
It would be interesting to understand what IC and law enforcement were actually imagining and discussing might happen...my impression from reporting is that there was expectation of potential violence between MAGA hard right, white nationalists, etc and counter protestors, whether Antifa or other, but there was definitely this stream of focus on the Jan 6 count...why was this not understood? Bias? Active suppression? Or just failure to communicate?
Did anyone discuss it at all?
Did they just not imagine that a sitting POTUS would fire up a crowd he knew was armed and ready for violence and direct them at the Capitol?
It's possible that they still don't really know...
BTW, when were you born. Me, 1957. I'm 'old'...
1) I didn't say anything negative about those who left when they saw violence happening, were disgusted by that violence. But thousands reacted violently.
2) No, none of them, "peaceful" or not, had a right to be on the Capitol "steps"; that's off limits to the general public without specific, individual permission. Includes my brother-in-law, who darn well should have known better. Trespassing.
3) Protests are legal, when proper steps have been taken to be in authorized locations. This was not.
4) What matters is that Trump knew that many were armed and ready for violence and he pointed them at the Capitol with rhetoric intended to make them even angrier, and with the intention to stop the counting, pressure the VP to do his bidding. To reverse the outcome of the election, which he knew he'd lost.
5) However, imagining that ANY POTUS, even Trump, would do something so outrageous and dangerous, and that thousands of his supporters would react violently, appears to have been beyond any coordinated law enforcement and intelligence services' "imagination". Is that true? Did they just not imagine something so outrageous and dangerous or was there active suppression of a preparation response, intentionally making it more dangerous? I'd like to think not the latter, but the Secret Service has clearly been hinky about all this...If just a failure of imagination or communication was there any sort of bias involved in not thinking these largely white Republicans wouldn't be violent? (I sure as heck didn't think that, but...).
I'm not sure they know the answers to this.
Too many people refused to answer questions, whether taking the 5th or refusing the subpoenas.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
... scumbag lawyer that needs to be placed in a locked cell and the key lost.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:26 pm Astounding:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... DACTED.pdf
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Was Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Thanks for the never-ending confirmation. Did you read some of the questions for which he invoked the Fifth?old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 pmWas Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
It’s worse than this!Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:08 pmThanks for the never-ending confirmation. Did you read some of the questions for which he invoked the Fifth?old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 pmWas Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
“I wish you would!”
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Anyone remember any complaints about Hillary’s legal bills?
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpoli ... -committee
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpoli ... -committee
“I wish you would!”
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Who cares ? Do a criminal referral on the man or stop using oversight powers to harass him.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:08 pmThanks for the never-ending confirmation. Did you read some of the questions for which he invoked the Fifth?old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 pmWas Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
It was illuminating seeing how the govt lawyer tried to trick him from asserting his 5th Amendment rights.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
... your response makes no sense. He was there on Jan 6, A witness to events. He is wired into the Trump crime family. So asking for his testimony is harassment?? Just a fine upstanding citizen.old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 pmWas Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Where was Flynn on Jan 6th ? Precisely ? Source ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:28 pm... your response makes no sense. He was there on Jan 6, A witness to events. He is wired into the Trump crime family. So asking for his testimony is harassment?? Just a fine upstanding citizen.old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 pmWas Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:53 pmWhere was Flynn on Jan 6th ? Precisely ? Source ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:28 pm... your response makes no sense. He was there on Jan 6, A witness to events. He is wired into the Trump crime family. So asking for his testimony is harassment?? Just a fine upstanding citizen.old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 pmWas Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
If I had to guess, I would say he was on Nantucket Island
“I wish you would!”
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Was that Jan 6th ? Source ?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:30 pmold salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:53 pmWhere was Flynn on Jan 6th ? Precisely ? Source ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:28 pm... your response makes no sense. He was there on Jan 6, A witness to events. He is wired into the Trump crime family. So asking for his testimony is harassment?? Just a fine upstanding citizen.old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 pmWas Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
If I had to guess, I would say he was on Nantucket Island
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:31 pmWas that Jan 6th ? Source ?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:30 pmold salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:53 pmWhere was Flynn on Jan 6th ? Precisely ? Source ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:28 pm... your response makes no sense. He was there on Jan 6, A witness to events. He is wired into the Trump crime family. So asking for his testimony is harassment?? Just a fine upstanding citizen.old salt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 pmWas Flynn included in the criminal referral to DoJ ? If not, it's just more harassment to run up his legal fees.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:44 pm... fine outstanding American citizens being persecuted by the Deep State.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Transcript of the deposition of the criminal Michael Flynn:
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... 0Flynn.pdf
He takes the Fifth over 450 times.
The same with numerous bedfellows, like Roger Stone and Kelly Ward and others. As Neal Katyal says, maybe they aren't so much the party of the Second Amendment as the party of the Fifth.
...& to produce a show trial video clip.
If I had to guess, I would say he was on Nantucket Island
Some guy on the internet was the source
“I wish you would!”