Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

[NattyBohChamps04]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The California mandate doesn't even take effect for another 12-13 years.

Clearly an assault on the American working citizenry.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The California mandate doesn't even take effect for another 12-13 years.

Clearly an assault on the American working citizenry.

But I read here that battery recycling capacity will be outstripped 10 years from now. Cradleandshoot said so.

[Kismet]

Thoughts on this alternative fuel pioneered by Porsche

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/porsche ... ative.html

"Porsche begins production of ‘e-fuel’ that could provide gas alternative amid EV push
Porsche said Tuesday that a pilot plant in Chile started production of the alternative fuel, as it aims to produce millions of gallons by mid-decade. Officials say e-fuels can act like gasoline, allowing vehicle owners a more environmentally friendly way to drive.
E-fuel is made from water and carbon dioxide using wind energy to enable the nearly CO2-neutral operation of petrol engines."

[PizzaSnake]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The real issue with BEVs is energy density of current battery packs and speed of refill. Obviously, the solution is battery-as-a-service: vehicle comes with one "hard-wired", and the facility to easily add others (normalized units built to international spec - no more "cowboying"). So, range could be extended for infrequent times most users would need more than 100 miles range -- say a long distance journey to family and the delay in recharging could be eliminated via battery "exchange". This would also allow for the optimization of battery recharging so as to extend the service life of the battery. Paradigm of going to a "filling station" and fueling up has to stop. Needs to be an easily swapped pack. And quickly, like say 15 minutes - pull up, initiate battery exchange protocol (de-energize unit to be exchanged) - could possibly be an automatic function once battery reaches a certain state, remove battery from "slot", insert into exchange machine, pay, remove charged pack, re-insert into vehicle, car would sense new pack (plug-'n-play) and initiate integration into system. Once integration done, drive away. 15 minutes if you are slow. Oh, and you r vehicle would be apprised of availability of available units via over-the-air inventory check.

None of this is hard. Just needs a "push" to create initial scaling function (widespread availability of exchange units and charging facility, charged units could be re-stocked via autonomous drone vehicles that would deliver and "stock" the exchange points 24/7). Needs to be "lights-out". Remove humans from the process 'cause they scuk, get sick, take vacations, etc.

Now, do we have the will to demand this? I for one would gladly kiss my dirty, fluid-filled ICE vehicle goodbye.

[jhu72]

The voice of a small Tesla investor.

[kramerica.inc]

Hyundai's EVs and Hybrids start at $25k- $41k. E-Class starts at $55k. Mercedes has an electric SUV (EQB) starting at $55k.

For the same price as a well-appointed e-class, your coworker could have had his choice of an electric Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc.

He could have. If one of those vehicles was even available in the region. Or if those were even close to the real prices.

But if you want to compare apples to apples, Why should anyone pay $20k more a 2023 Ford F-150 lightning lariat at $77k over the $57k eco boost gas version? It just doesn’t make sense financially.

[youthathletics]

Hyundai's EVs and Hybrids start at $25k- $41k. E-Class starts at $55k. Mercedes has an electric SUV (EQB) starting at $55k.

For the same price as a well-appointed e-class, your coworker could have had his choice of an electric Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc.

He could have. If one of those vehicles was even available in the region. Or if those were even close to the real prices.

But if you want to compare apples to apples, Why should anyone pay $20k more a 2023 Ford F-150 lightning lariat at $77k over the $57k eco boost gas version? It just doesn’t make sense financially.

Yep. Have co workers waiting for 18 plus months on EV vehicles, some have up and went used Tesla. Ford is certainly royally screwing people with Additional Markups as you noted.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Hyundai's EVs and Hybrids start at $25k- $41k. E-Class starts at $55k. Mercedes has an electric SUV (EQB) starting at $55k.

For the same price as a well-appointed e-class, your coworker could have had his choice of an electric Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc.

He could have. If one of those vehicles was even available in the region. Or if those were even close to the real prices.

But if you want to compare apples to apples, Why should anyone pay $20k more a 2023 Ford F-150 lightning lariat at $77k over the $57k eco boost gas version? It just doesn’t make sense financially.

So... wait? Gas cars were going for $10k-$50k+ over price. Did you try to get a Bronco or C8 during the pandemic??? The Subaru and chevy lots were empty. Nothing available in the region or close to MSRP.

As far as paying $20k more for a F150? What trims, cab sizes, bed sizes are you comparing? You want extra storage space in the front engine bay, more torque, better acceleration, more towing capcity reduced expenses over the life of the truck to make it cheaper?

E-classes didn't miraculously go down in price during the pandemic while electric hyundais went up. You're blowing smoke.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Hyundai's EVs and Hybrids start at $25k- $41k. E-Class starts at $55k. Mercedes has an electric SUV (EQB) starting at $55k.

For the same price as a well-appointed e-class, your coworker could have had his choice of an electric Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc.

He could have. If one of those vehicles was even available in the region. Or if those were even close to the real prices.

But if you want to compare apples to apples, Why should anyone pay $20k more a 2023 Ford F-150 lightning lariat at $77k over the $57k eco boost gas version? It just doesn’t make sense financially.

Yep. Have co workers waiting for 18 plus months on EV vehicles, some have up and went used Tesla. Ford is certainly royally screwing people with Additional Markups as you noted.

Free market baby. Supply and demand, no EV mandates exist, people just want them!! Same with every popular gas car on the market the past 2.5 years.

Wanna pay an extra $150k for a gas porsche? Extra $20k for a gas ford Maverick? Wait 18 months+ for a gas Ford Bronco? All that has been happening along with all your "co-workers" woes. LMAO

[Typical Lax Dad]

Hyundai's EVs and Hybrids start at $25k- $41k. E-Class starts at $55k. Mercedes has an electric SUV (EQB) starting at $55k.

For the same price as a well-appointed e-class, your coworker could have had his choice of an electric Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc.

He could have. If one of those vehicles was even available in the region. Or if those were even close to the real prices.

But if you want to compare apples to apples, Why should anyone pay $20k more a 2023 Ford F-150 lightning lariat at $77k over the $57k eco boost gas version? It just doesn’t make sense financially.

Yep. Have co workers waiting for 18 plus months on EV vehicles, some have up and went used Tesla. Ford is certainly royally screwing people with Additional Markups as you noted.

Supply and demand. Nobody is being forced to pay up.

[cradleandshoot]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The California mandate doesn't even take effect for another 12-13 years.

Clearly an assault on the American working citizenry.

But I read here that battery recycling capacity will be outstripped 10 years from now. Cradleandshoot said so.

I said no such thing partner. I did point out that the state of California has entered into never never land just beginning the permit process for reclaiming all of these batteries. It would be nice if you could get your facts strait.

[jhu72]

I wouldn't worry about California recycling Li-ion batteries if I were you, they'll manage just fine. I am sure however that they appreciate your concern.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The California mandate doesn't even take effect for another 12-13 years.

Clearly an assault on the American working citizenry.

But I read here that battery recycling capacity will be outstripped 10 years from now. Cradleandshoot said so.

I said no such thing partner. I did point out that the state of California has entered into never never land just beginning the permit process for reclaiming all of these batteries. It would be nice if you could get your facts strait.

When will demand for battery recycling outstrip capacity in California? You sticking with 10 years?

[jhu72]

Musk is as big a lying POS as Trump and friends, feeding the right wing lie machine.

[MDlaxfan76]

Musk is as big a lying POS as Trump and friends, feeding the right wing lie machine.

Pretty amazing really.

So, is he off his rocker or an evil genius and we just don't see his end game?

[jhu72]

Musk is as big a lying POS as Trump and friends, feeding the right wing lie machine.

Pretty amazing really.

So, is he off his rocker or an evil genius and we just don't see his end game?

... he's just one more dick, that thinks he is owed something. Thinks he is not getting enough love, not being given the passes that are rightly his, etc. If you feel like this, you go running to the guys who feel the same way. The cry baby club.

[cradleandshoot]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The California mandate doesn't even take effect for another 12-13 years.

Clearly an assault on the American working citizenry.

But I read here that battery recycling capacity will be outstripped 10 years from now. Cradleandshoot said so.

I said no such thing partner. I did point out that the state of California has entered into never never land just beginning the permit process for reclaiming all of these batteries. It would be nice if you could get your facts strait.

When will demand for battery recycling outstrip capacity in California? You sticking with 10 years?

I guess that depends how many batteries that have chit the bed start stacking up 10 years from now. It is quite possible that 10 years from now the folks that run California will still be quibbling about the permit process. Maybe they can just ship them to West Virginia and bury them in an abandoned coal mine. We can be honest here partner, who cares about West Virginia anyway?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The California mandate doesn't even take effect for another 12-13 years.

Clearly an assault on the American working citizenry.

But I read here that battery recycling capacity will be outstripped 10 years from now. Cradleandshoot said so.

I said no such thing partner. I did point out that the state of California has entered into never never land just beginning the permit process for reclaiming all of these batteries. It would be nice if you could get your facts strait.

When will demand for battery recycling outstrip capacity in California? You sticking with 10 years?

I guess that depends how many batteries that have chit the bed start stacking up 10 years from now. It is quite possible that 10 years from now the folks that run California will still be quibbling about the permit process. Maybe they can just ship them to West Virginia and bury them in an abandoned coal mine. We can be honest here partner, who cares about West Virginia anyway?

So you have your facts “strait” now? I plan on visiting Gibraltar next year.

[cradleandshoot]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The California mandate doesn't even take effect for another 12-13 years.

Clearly an assault on the American working citizenry.

But I read here that battery recycling capacity will be outstripped 10 years from now. Cradleandshoot said so.

I said no such thing partner. I did point out that the state of California has entered into never never land just beginning the permit process for reclaiming all of these batteries. It would be nice if you could get your facts strait.

When will demand for battery recycling outstrip capacity in California? You sticking with 10 years?

I guess that depends how many batteries that have chit the bed start stacking up 10 years from now. It is quite possible that 10 years from now the folks that run California will still be quibbling about the permit process. Maybe they can just ship them to West Virginia and bury them in an abandoned coal mine. We can be honest here partner, who cares about West Virginia anyway?

So you have your facts “strait” now? I plan on visiting Gibraltar next year.

I have my opinion about what I read and who writes it. It is really very simple and basic if you don't overthink it.

[PizzaSnake]

Of course there's already a dozen EVs out there in the $20k - $50k range and growing...

And headed down as scale is reached.

The California mandate doesn't even take effect for another 12-13 years.

Clearly an assault on the American working citizenry.

But I read here that battery recycling capacity will be outstripped 10 years from now. Cradleandshoot said so.

I said no such thing partner. I did point out that the state of California has entered into never never land just beginning the permit process for reclaiming all of these batteries. It would be nice if you could get your facts strait.

When will demand for battery recycling outstrip capacity in California? You sticking with 10 years?

I guess that depends how many batteries that have chit the bed start stacking up 10 years from now. It is quite possible that 10 years from now the folks that run California will still be quibbling about the permit process. Maybe they can just ship them to West Virginia and bury them in an abandoned coal mine. We can be honest here partner, who cares about West Virginia anyway?

Practically speaking, there are a lot more abandoned mines in locations much closer. However, unless Li-ion batteries are completely abandoned, the lithium in the batteries will be worth recovery to someone.

Also, with its sub-alpine climate in some areas, WV real estate will probably grow increasingly expensive as rhe heat gets worse. Barring any precipitous drop in precipitation, water supply looks good as well.