Does it throw the seat to the GOP?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 amIt is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 amPositioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
2024
- MDlaxfan76
- Posts: 27119
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm
Re: 2024
-
- Posts: 5294
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am
Re: 2024
I am doubtful, at this point anyway, that she syphons away a single vote from a good Democratic candidate.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:00 amDoes it throw the seat to the GOP?RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 amIt is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 amPositioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
- MDlaxfan76
- Posts: 27119
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm
Re: 2024
yup, very well-funded.
Seacoaster,
Is this a situation, though, where a "good" Dem candidate needs to be a moderate?
Not a fire-breather?
Left of Sinema, but not far?
and does it not also depend, a bit, on the GOP candidate being from the whack-job mold?
I agree that Sinema would have lost in a Dem primary. This is probably her best hope.
But they don't have ranked-choice voting, correct?
-
- Posts: 5294
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am
Re: 2024
I’d say s/he has to be aligned with Kelly. So yes, moderate Democrat.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:52 amyup, very well-funded.
Seacoaster,
Is this a situation, though, where a "good" Dem candidate needs to be a moderate?
Not a fire-breather?
Left of Sinema, but not far?
and does it not also depend, a bit, on the GOP candidate being from the whack-job mold?
I agree that Sinema would have lost in a Dem primary. This is probably her best hope.
But they don't have ranked-choice voting, correct?
- MDlaxfan76
- Posts: 27119
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm
Re: 2024
Agreed.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:08 amI’d say s/he has to be aligned with Kelly. So yes, moderate Democrat.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:52 amyup, very well-funded.
Seacoaster,
Is this a situation, though, where a "good" Dem candidate needs to be a moderate?
Not a fire-breather?
Left of Sinema, but not far?
and does it not also depend, a bit, on the GOP candidate being from the whack-job mold?
I agree that Sinema would have lost in a Dem primary. This is probably her best hope.
But they don't have ranked-choice voting, correct?
-
- Posts: 23826
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: 2024
Hence my intro note "get paid"...Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 amPositioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
-
- Posts: 23826
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: 2024
I don't get why she's so loathed for being a moderate/middle-ish democrat. Yes, she's an attention you know what "focused internally" person, but so is every national politician as meglomaniacs tend to be. But is she supposed to be dogmatic and monolithic to progressive positions?Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:52 amI don't disagree. She has alienated most Democrats, and is not palatable to the AZ GOP (maybe the craziest State apparatus in the Country), and kind of stands for nothing in particular.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 amIt is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 amPositioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 4895201281
I prefer Manchin of the two as he seems to represent his folks more than she does, but this position feeds further into the tribalism that's infected, polluted and ultimately corrupted to the core the Republican party I had embraced my entire life. Do we want to "eye for an eye" this s**t?
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Re: 2024
... not really surprised. I posted yesterday that she seemed different in recent days. Seemed like she was more comfortable in her own skin. I thought maybe because she had made peace with those inside the democratic party that she was feuding with. This makes more sense.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
It may be a good move for her. There are more independent voters in AZ than democrats IRCC. I would think it would be a 3 way race in 2024. She is a strange duck, maybe she would feel more comfortable as a republiCON but I don't think she is that crazy.
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Re: 2024
... Kelly was not happy with her because she offered and gave no support in his re-election bid. She really is a loner, which I can understand.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:19 amAgreed.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:08 amI’d say s/he has to be aligned with Kelly. So yes, moderate Democrat.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:52 amyup, very well-funded.
Seacoaster,
Is this a situation, though, where a "good" Dem candidate needs to be a moderate?
Not a fire-breather?
Left of Sinema, but not far?
and does it not also depend, a bit, on the GOP candidate being from the whack-job mold?
I agree that Sinema would have lost in a Dem primary. This is probably her best hope.
But they don't have ranked-choice voting, correct?
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
- MDlaxfan76
- Posts: 27119
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm
Re: 2024
I think what was frustrating to Dems these past 2 years wasn't so much that she is moderate, not getting on board with the most progressive policies, but rather that, unlike Manchin, they had enormous difficulty getting her to tell them what it would take, what compromise would be required, to move legislation. Manchin was typically more clear about what it would take, and he'd propose specific compromises...not what some Dems wanted, but at least they knew. She withheld. And this made them look inept and ineffective. Bad look.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:23 amI don't get why she's so loathed for being a moderate/middle-ish democrat. Yes, she's an attention you know what "focused internally" person, but so is every national politician as meglomaniacs tend to be. But is she supposed to be dogmatic and monolithic to progressive positions?Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:52 amI don't disagree. She has alienated most Democrats, and is not palatable to the AZ GOP (maybe the craziest State apparatus in the Country), and kind of stands for nothing in particular.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 amIt is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 amPositioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 4895201281
I prefer Manchin of the two as he seems to represent his folks more than she does, but this position feeds further into the tribalism that's infected, polluted and ultimately corrupted to the core the Republican party I had embraced my entire life. Do we want to "eye for an eye" this s**t?
And what became particularly predictable was that she was going to back the carried interest crowd and protect big pharma...and other than donations, it wasn't based on any particular rationale that was understandable.
So, rolling back the most egregious aspects of the Trump/McConnell tax cuts never got done...she was the key vote preventing.
Likewise, the blocking of voting reform...was it 'moderate' or something else?
Re: 2024
Sinema has effectively become captive to her funders - and that makes her the blockade as they are typically big pharma and big money management. She _says_ she is moderate, but as pointed out above, she does not really take positions proactively like Manchin, but stays out of things until the end when she often is just a big no.
Re: 2024
+1RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:55 am Sinema has effectively become captive to her funders - and that makes her the blockade as they are typically big pharma and big money management. She _says_ she is moderate, but as pointed out above, she does not really take positions proactively like Manchin, but stays out of things until the end when she often is just a big no.
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
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Re: 2024
Like a Judd Gregg or Lincoln Chaffeejhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:23 am... not really surprised. I posted yesterday that she seemed different in recent days. Seemed like she was more comfortable in her own skin. I thought maybe because she had made peace with those inside the democratic party that she was feuding with. This makes more sense.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
It may be a good move for her. There are more independent voters in AZ than democrats IRCC. I would think it would be a 3 way race in 2024. She is a strange duck, maybe she would feel more comfortable as a republiCON but I don't think she is that crazy.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
-
- Posts: 23826
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: 2024
That’s fair but then why did so many on the left lump her and Manchin together as indistinguishable (at least publicly)?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:39 amI think what was frustrating to Dems these past 2 years wasn't so much that she is moderate, not getting on board with the most progressive policies, but rather that, unlike Manchin, they had enormous difficulty getting her to tell them what it would take, what compromise would be required, to move legislation. Manchin was typically more clear about what it would take, and he'd propose specific compromises...not what some Dems wanted, but at least they knew. She withheld. And this made them look inept and ineffective. Bad look.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:23 amI don't get why she's so loathed for being a moderate/middle-ish democrat. Yes, she's an attention you know what "focused internally" person, but so is every national politician as meglomaniacs tend to be. But is she supposed to be dogmatic and monolithic to progressive positions?Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:52 amI don't disagree. She has alienated most Democrats, and is not palatable to the AZ GOP (maybe the craziest State apparatus in the Country), and kind of stands for nothing in particular.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 amIt is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 amPositioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 4895201281
I prefer Manchin of the two as he seems to represent his folks more than she does, but this position feeds further into the tribalism that's infected, polluted and ultimately corrupted to the core the Republican party I had embraced my entire life. Do we want to "eye for an eye" this s**t?
And what became particularly predictable was that she was going to back the carried interest crowd and protect big pharma...and other than donations, it wasn't based on any particular rationale that was understandable.
So, rolling back the most egregious aspects of the Trump/McConnell tax cuts never got done...she was the key vote preventing.
Likewise, the blocking of voting reform...was it 'moderate' or something else?
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
-
- Posts: 23826
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: 2024
Fine but see my reply to MD. Much of the left lumped Manchin and here together a synonymous.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:55 am Sinema has effectively become captive to her funders - and that makes her the blockade as they are typically big pharma and big money management. She _says_ she is moderate, but as pointed out above, she does not really take positions proactively like Manchin, but stays out of things until the end when she often is just a big no.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Re: 2024
The lady has a large NEGATIVE rating from both Republicans and Democrats in AZ. Pretty much everyone there dislikes her. She knew she was going to get primaried if she chooses to run for re-election as a Democrat. Not enough $$$$$$ to run as an independent and doubt she wants to see some MAGA idiot win in a three-way race as that would not be good for the donors who support her.
In today's politics EVERYTHING is about LEVERAGE. She had it and won't have as much, if any, going forward. Best bet is she'll opt out of running again and take a multi-million lobbying gig with her pals in Pharma and Banking who she has been taking care of for the past few years.
In today's politics EVERYTHING is about LEVERAGE. She had it and won't have as much, if any, going forward. Best bet is she'll opt out of running again and take a multi-million lobbying gig with her pals in Pharma and Banking who she has been taking care of for the past few years.
Last edited by Kismet on Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2024
There were questions about whether Sinema would run in 2024. This move seems to clearly indicate that she will AND that she doesn’t think she can win the Democratic primary (which at this point seems to be a given).
I haven’t looked at the list recently, but I suspect this seat will be number one on the Republican’s list of seats they think they can flip in two years.
Assuming Arizona doesn’t have ranked choice voting or the 50% rule like Georgia, this development could help the Republicans win the seat. I would see her taking more votes away from the Democrat than the Republican. Of course, who wins will depend heavily on candidate quality as the Squire of Kentucky likes to say. Will the Republicans finally wake up and start running good candidates? If so, they’ll have a good shot at taking the seat. Who will the Democrats run? I don’t know. Hopefully they find somebody of as high quality as Mark Kelly.
Two things will help the Democrats. One, the state is edging bluer. Two, the crazies still seem to control the Republican party there.
I haven’t looked at the list recently, but I suspect this seat will be number one on the Republican’s list of seats they think they can flip in two years.
Assuming Arizona doesn’t have ranked choice voting or the 50% rule like Georgia, this development could help the Republicans win the seat. I would see her taking more votes away from the Democrat than the Republican. Of course, who wins will depend heavily on candidate quality as the Squire of Kentucky likes to say. Will the Republicans finally wake up and start running good candidates? If so, they’ll have a good shot at taking the seat. Who will the Democrats run? I don’t know. Hopefully they find somebody of as high quality as Mark Kelly.
Two things will help the Democrats. One, the state is edging bluer. Two, the crazies still seem to control the Republican party there.
Re: 2024
... think she was/is a hard person to understand her motivations, and was easily typed as a Manchin, because it was something they knew. I think she is just a loner, not a joiner, not comfortable inside a larger organization where you have to compromise -- there are people like that. Square peg in a round hole environment.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:37 pmThat’s fair but then why did so many on the left lump her and Manchin together as indistinguishable (at least publicly)?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:39 amI think what was frustrating to Dems these past 2 years wasn't so much that she is moderate, not getting on board with the most progressive policies, but rather that, unlike Manchin, they had enormous difficulty getting her to tell them what it would take, what compromise would be required, to move legislation. Manchin was typically more clear about what it would take, and he'd propose specific compromises...not what some Dems wanted, but at least they knew. She withheld. And this made them look inept and ineffective. Bad look.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:23 amI don't get why she's so loathed for being a moderate/middle-ish democrat. Yes, she's an attention you know what "focused internally" person, but so is every national politician as meglomaniacs tend to be. But is she supposed to be dogmatic and monolithic to progressive positions?Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:52 amI don't disagree. She has alienated most Democrats, and is not palatable to the AZ GOP (maybe the craziest State apparatus in the Country), and kind of stands for nothing in particular.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 amIt is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 amPositioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 4895201281
I prefer Manchin of the two as he seems to represent his folks more than she does, but this position feeds further into the tribalism that's infected, polluted and ultimately corrupted to the core the Republican party I had embraced my entire life. Do we want to "eye for an eye" this s**t?
And what became particularly predictable was that she was going to back the carried interest crowd and protect big pharma...and other than donations, it wasn't based on any particular rationale that was understandable.
So, rolling back the most egregious aspects of the Trump/McConnell tax cuts never got done...she was the key vote preventing.
Likewise, the blocking of voting reform...was it 'moderate' or something else?
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
- MDlaxfan76
- Posts: 27119
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm
Re: 2024
I think that's probably correct, though her capture by big Pharma is not equivalent to Manchin and carbon, far as I know...does she actually have voters there who care about protecting big Pharma and carried interest or just national donors?jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:10 pm... think she was/is a hard person to understand her motivations, and was easily typed as a Manchin, because it was something they knew. I think she is just a loner, not a joiner, not comfortable inside a larger organization where you have to compromise -- there are people like that. Square peg in a round hole environment.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:37 pmThat’s fair but then why did so many on the left lump her and Manchin together as indistinguishable (at least publicly)?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:39 amI think what was frustrating to Dems these past 2 years wasn't so much that she is moderate, not getting on board with the most progressive policies, but rather that, unlike Manchin, they had enormous difficulty getting her to tell them what it would take, what compromise would be required, to move legislation. Manchin was typically more clear about what it would take, and he'd propose specific compromises...not what some Dems wanted, but at least they knew. She withheld. And this made them look inept and ineffective. Bad look.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:23 amI don't get why she's so loathed for being a moderate/middle-ish democrat. Yes, she's an attention you know what "focused internally" person, but so is every national politician as meglomaniacs tend to be. But is she supposed to be dogmatic and monolithic to progressive positions?Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:52 amI don't disagree. She has alienated most Democrats, and is not palatable to the AZ GOP (maybe the craziest State apparatus in the Country), and kind of stands for nothing in particular.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 amIt is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 amPositioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party
Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation
Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET
”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”
The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.
Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 4895201281
I prefer Manchin of the two as he seems to represent his folks more than she does, but this position feeds further into the tribalism that's infected, polluted and ultimately corrupted to the core the Republican party I had embraced my entire life. Do we want to "eye for an eye" this s**t?
And what became particularly predictable was that she was going to back the carried interest crowd and protect big pharma...and other than donations, it wasn't based on any particular rationale that was understandable.
So, rolling back the most egregious aspects of the Trump/McConnell tax cuts never got done...she was the key vote preventing.
Likewise, the blocking of voting reform...was it 'moderate' or something else?
But to Geneva's question, she was lumped in with Manchin because they were the two predictable hold out possibilities on many issue where the rest of the party was willing to sign on. As previously noted, she drew more ire because she kept making noises like things were possible, but then wouldn't provide any path to compromise. She's not a problem solver...Manchin is much more so.