Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

[get it to x]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/tech ... peech.html

“Before Elon Musk bought Twitter, slurs against Black Americans showed up on the social media service an average of 1,282 times a day. After the billionaire became Twitter’s owner, they jumped to 3,876 times a day.

Slurs against gay men appeared on Twitter 2,506 times a day on average before Mr. Musk took over. Afterward, their use rose to 3,964 times a day.

And antisemitic posts referring to Jews or Judaism soared more than 61 percent in the two weeks after Mr. Musk acquired the site.

These findings — from the Center for Countering Digital Hate, the Anti-Defamation League and other groups that study online platforms — provide the most comprehensive picture to date of how conversations on Twitter have changed since Mr. Musk completed his $44 billion deal for the company in late October. While the numbers are relatively small, researchers said the increases were atypically high.

The shift in speech is just the tip of a set of changes on the service under Mr. Musk. Accounts that Twitter used to regularly remove — such as those that identify as part of the Islamic State, which were banned after the U.S. government classified ISIS as a terror group — have come roaring back. Accounts associated with QAnon, a vast far-right conspiracy theory, have paid for and received verified status on Twitter, giving them a sheen of legitimacy.

These changes are alarming, researchers said, adding that they had never seen such a sharp increase in hate speech, problematic content and formerly banned accounts in such a short period on a mainstream social media platform.

“Elon Musk sent up the Bat Signal to every kind of racist, misogynist and homophobe that Twitter was open for business,” said Imran Ahmed, the chief executive of the Center for Countering Digital Hate. “They have reacted accordingly.”

Mr. Musk, who did not respond to a request for comment, has been vocal about being a “free speech absolutist” who believes in unfettered discussions online. He has moved swiftly to overhaul Twitter’s practices, allowing former President Donald J. Trump — who was barred for tweets that could incite violence — to return. Last week, Mr. Musk proposed a widespread amnesty for accounts that Twitter’s previous leadership had suspended. And on Tuesday, he ended enforcement of a policy against Covid misinformation.

But Mr. Musk has denied claims that hate speech has increased on Twitter under his watch. Last month, he tweeted a downward-trending graph that he said showed that “hate speech impressions” had dropped by a third since he took over. He did not provide underlying numbers or details of how he was measuring hate speech.

On Thursday, Mr. Musk said that the account of rapper and fashion designer Kanye West, which was restricted for a spell in October because of an antisemitic tweet, would be suspended indefinitely after Mr. West tweeted an image of a swastika inside the Star of David.

Changes in Twitter’s content not only have societal implications but also affect the company’s bottom line. Advertisers, which provide about 90 percent of Twitter’s revenue, have reduced their spending on the platform as they wait to see how it will fare under Mr. Musk. Some have said they are concerned that the quality of discussions on the platform will suffer.

On Wednesday, Twitter sought to reassure advertisers about its commitment to online safety. “Brand safety is only possible when human safety is the top priority,” the company wrote in a blog post. “All of this remains true today.”

The appeal to advertisers coincided with a meeting between Mr. Musk and Thierry Breton, the digital chief of the European Union, in which they discussed content moderation and regulation, according to an E.U. spokesman. Mr. Breton has pressed Mr. Musk to comply with the Digital Services Act, a European law that requires social platforms to reduce online harm or face fines and other penalties.

On Twitter itself, researchers said the increase in hate speech, antisemitic posts and other troubling content had begun before Mr. Musk loosened the service’s content rules. That suggested that a further surge could be coming, they said.

If that happens, it’s unclear whether Mr. Musk will have policies in place to deal with problematic speech or, even if he does, whether Twitter has the employees to keep up with moderation. Mr. Musk laid off, fired or accepted the resignations of more than half the company’s staff last month, including those who worked to remove harassment, foreign interference and disinformation from the service. Yoel Roth, Twitter’s head of trust of safety, was among those who quit.

The Anti-Defamation League, which files regular reports of antisemitic tweets to Twitter and keeps track of which posts are removed, said the company had gone from taking action on 60 percent of the tweets it reported to only 30 percent.

“We have advised Musk that Twitter should not just keep the policies it has had in place for years, it should dedicate resources to those policies,” said Yael Eisenstat, a vice president at the Anti-Defamation League, who met with Mr. Musk last month. She said he did not appear interested in taking the advice of civil rights groups and other organizations.“

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

[Kismet]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

[get it to x]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

[Seacoaster(1)]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/tech ... peech.html

“Before Elon Musk bought Twitter, slurs against Black Americans showed up on the social media service an average of 1,282 times a day. After the billionaire became Twitter’s owner, they jumped to 3,876 times a day.

Slurs against gay men appeared on Twitter 2,506 times a day on average before Mr. Musk took over. Afterward, their use rose to 3,964 times a day.

And antisemitic posts referring to Jews or Judaism soared more than 61 percent in the two weeks after Mr. Musk acquired the site.

These findings — from the Center for Countering Digital Hate, the Anti-Defamation League and other groups that study online platforms — provide the most comprehensive picture to date of how conversations on Twitter have changed since Mr. Musk completed his $44 billion deal for the company in late October. While the numbers are relatively small, researchers said the increases were atypically high.

The shift in speech is just the tip of a set of changes on the service under Mr. Musk. Accounts that Twitter used to regularly remove — such as those that identify as part of the Islamic State, which were banned after the U.S. government classified ISIS as a terror group — have come roaring back. Accounts associated with QAnon, a vast far-right conspiracy theory, have paid for and received verified status on Twitter, giving them a sheen of legitimacy.

These changes are alarming, researchers said, adding that they had never seen such a sharp increase in hate speech, problematic content and formerly banned accounts in such a short period on a mainstream social media platform.

“Elon Musk sent up the Bat Signal to every kind of racist, misogynist and homophobe that Twitter was open for business,” said Imran Ahmed, the chief executive of the Center for Countering Digital Hate. “They have reacted accordingly.”

Mr. Musk, who did not respond to a request for comment, has been vocal about being a “free speech absolutist” who believes in unfettered discussions online. He has moved swiftly to overhaul Twitter’s practices, allowing former President Donald J. Trump — who was barred for tweets that could incite violence — to return. Last week, Mr. Musk proposed a widespread amnesty for accounts that Twitter’s previous leadership had suspended. And on Tuesday, he ended enforcement of a policy against Covid misinformation.

But Mr. Musk has denied claims that hate speech has increased on Twitter under his watch. Last month, he tweeted a downward-trending graph that he said showed that “hate speech impressions” had dropped by a third since he took over. He did not provide underlying numbers or details of how he was measuring hate speech.

On Thursday, Mr. Musk said that the account of rapper and fashion designer Kanye West, which was restricted for a spell in October because of an antisemitic tweet, would be suspended indefinitely after Mr. West tweeted an image of a swastika inside the Star of David.

Changes in Twitter’s content not only have societal implications but also affect the company’s bottom line. Advertisers, which provide about 90 percent of Twitter’s revenue, have reduced their spending on the platform as they wait to see how it will fare under Mr. Musk. Some have said they are concerned that the quality of discussions on the platform will suffer.

On Wednesday, Twitter sought to reassure advertisers about its commitment to online safety. “Brand safety is only possible when human safety is the top priority,” the company wrote in a blog post. “All of this remains true today.”

The appeal to advertisers coincided with a meeting between Mr. Musk and Thierry Breton, the digital chief of the European Union, in which they discussed content moderation and regulation, according to an E.U. spokesman. Mr. Breton has pressed Mr. Musk to comply with the Digital Services Act, a European law that requires social platforms to reduce online harm or face fines and other penalties.

On Twitter itself, researchers said the increase in hate speech, antisemitic posts and other troubling content had begun before Mr. Musk loosened the service’s content rules. That suggested that a further surge could be coming, they said.

If that happens, it’s unclear whether Mr. Musk will have policies in place to deal with problematic speech or, even if he does, whether Twitter has the employees to keep up with moderation. Mr. Musk laid off, fired or accepted the resignations of more than half the company’s staff last month, including those who worked to remove harassment, foreign interference and disinformation from the service. Yoel Roth, Twitter’s head of trust of safety, was among those who quit.

The Anti-Defamation League, which files regular reports of antisemitic tweets to Twitter and keeps track of which posts are removed, said the company had gone from taking action on 60 percent of the tweets it reported to only 30 percent.

“We have advised Musk that Twitter should not just keep the policies it has had in place for years, it should dedicate resources to those policies,” said Yael Eisenstat, a vice president at the Anti-Defamation League, who met with Mr. Musk last month. She said he did not appear interested in taking the advice of civil rights groups and other organizations.“

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

First, I just posted an article. I don't write for the NY Times, or do the research and investigation noted in the article.

Second, the issue isn't, I think, the number of anti-semitic or race-baiting or LGBTQ-baiting posts. It is the space being created for these things as legitimate ways of talking about discrete populations, in some cases encouraging and fomenting real life violence and discrimination against those constituencies. I get that you don't likely have a problem with this sort of "speech." I do. For you, I am likely engaged in what one poster calls "white virtue signaling." I disagree; I think people have a duty to condemn this sort of speech about, whether we know it or accept it or not, our neighbors, co-workers and relatives. Turning on my/our "ignore switch" is the same as watching an old woman get the turd kicked out of her by a thug and just walking by.

Third, content moderation is not censorship or cancelling. It is acknowledging that discrimination against discrete populations like this is actually wrong. You don't have a "First Amendment right" to vitriol about Jews and POC and LGBTQ people on a private platform. Elon has an advertiser problem now. That is what passes for the marketplace of ideas these days.

[Seacoaster(1)]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

Kanye's condemnation and downfall is exactly because we didn't engage our ignore switch.

[get it to x]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

Kanye's condemnation and downfall is exactly because we didn't engage our ignore switch.

And that’s fine. I laid out two choices. Ridicule or ignore. But weeping like your feelings matter to Adidas is just silly. Adidas only cares about your $$$$$$.

[Farfromgeneva]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

What’s the liquidity event that provides any reasonable return even resembling a 1.0x MOIC on that overpay for a declining company that hit his bid so hard it felt like a punch from vintage Mike Tyson/or fairly recent Wilder fight? he paid a market based premium off a 2021 valuation. He and his investors are going to take a bath on this, just a question of impact on the rest of his “empire”. There won’t be any upside like when KKR bought TXU at the peak in 2007 (or 06 I forget the exact heat but last peak valution period).

And Wall Street is running from the guy because if they had to mark that syndicated term abs sub debt they are holding it would be 60 cents on the dollar or less.

[Farfromgeneva]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

Silence is problematic as well.

Education, not ridicule, is the best path but how do you educate the unwilling and intellectually “uncurious”?

[get it to x]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

Silence is problematic as well.

Education, not ridicule, is the best path but how do you educate the unwilling and intellectually “uncurious”?

So you're saying Adidas would not have terminated their relationship with Kanye if nobody had spoken out? I think they are savvy enough to know
that what he said was an economic deal killer without one person saying they had verbal "violence" committed against them.

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

[Farfromgeneva]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

Silence is problematic as well.

Education, not ridicule, is the best path but how do you educate the unwilling and intellectually “uncurious”?

So you're saying Adidas would not have terminated their relationship with Kanye if nobody had spoken out? I think they are savvy enough to know
that what he said was an economic deal killer without one person saying they had verbal "violence" committed against them.

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

Yes have you followed Balenciaga?

I was out in musk a half dozen years ago or more. So hope you don’t classify “all this outrage” as including me. I don’t like people who take advantage of others through information asymmetry and that’s as consistent a position as I take in life and it was evident that was what his playbook was halfway through the last decade of not earlier.

[MDlaxfan76]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

Silence is problematic as well.

Education, not ridicule, is the best path but how do you educate the unwilling and intellectually “uncurious”?

So you're saying Adidas would not have terminated their relationship with Kanye if nobody had spoken out? I think they are savvy enough to know
that what he said was an economic deal killer without one person saying they had verbal "violence" committed against them.

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

no, I think it was only because it was "obvious" that Adidas made that decision and that was only because people made a stink, called it out.

What seems to be missing from your logic, the sentiment of which I'd agree with, is that the algorithm intentionally amplifies the most, the most inflammatory statements, the hate speech...not the friendly, moderate speech. It gets the most reaction, negative or positive. And there are bots designed to "react" so as to trigger the algorithm to amplify the hate, many of which are planted by foreign adversaries.

It's all about the money.
With no liability due to Section 230.

[get it to x]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

Silence is problematic as well.

Education, not ridicule, is the best path but how do you educate the unwilling and intellectually “uncurious”?

So you're saying Adidas would not have terminated their relationship with Kanye if nobody had spoken out? I think they are savvy enough to know
that what he said was an economic deal killer without one person saying they had verbal "violence" committed against them.

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

no, I think it was only because it was "obvious" that Adidas made that decision and that was only because people made a stink, called it out.

What seems to be missing from your logic, the sentiment of which I'd agree with, is that the algorithm intentionally amplifies the most, the most inflammatory statements, the hate speech...not the friendly, moderate speech. It gets the most reaction, negative or positive. And there are bots designed to "react" so as to trigger the algorithm to amplify the hate, many of which are planted by foreign adversaries.

It's all about the money.
With no liability due to Section 230.

I would be happy to have Section 230 modified or eliminated altogether. They should allow all speech or be treated like a publisher, with the attendant liability. While we're at it, how about reversing NY Times vs Sullivan, making all media responsible for libel. Where you and I disagree is on hate speech. Even the vile American Nazi Party was allowed to march in Skokie. Not that I'm welcoming the KKK to march down my street, but I would not cower behind my blinds. I would be in the street exercising my freedom of speech and telling them what a bunch of losers they were. All of the technical stuff like bots will eventually be dealt with. Adjust the algorithm to benefit the user, not the advertisers. If twitter becomes a free speech platform, could they charge a subscription for all, not just the blue checks, and eliminate the advertisers altogether?

[MDlaxfan76]

An how many twitter posts daily? 500 million. You make this sound like the whole place is contaminated. Why don’t we condemn your house because we found one cockroach? Here’s the thing, nobody is making you either follow some idiot racist or read their tweets. The best and most proven way to deal with hate is ridicule. Look how relevant David Duke is now. Does he get ink or airtime anywhere? If we’re going to have free speech, there’s always going to be some stupidity. Call it out, make it irrelevant.

Except that the more attention this problem gets, the more of it we see.

I might agree with the spirit of your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to be working currently. The more sh*t they do the more attention they get.

Musk's $44B FUBAR may eventually cost him and his investors but I'm not sold on that just yet. They are in BIG trouble with the EU where the laws on content are much stricter than here and also there has been reporting that various international extremist organizations are back on the platform (and we just suspended military operations in Syria against ISIS because of potential Turkish military operations in the area against our Syrian Kurd allies.)

The more we see of what? People like Kanye West exposing their ignorance? We need to do a better job of teaching people that stupidity only has meaning if you give it meaning. Do you not see that loudly taking offense only amplifies the stupid remark? Many have been led to believe there is power in being offended and that you are the victim of some crime. You’re really the victim of you, by allowing yourself to be sucked into the argument by a stupid person. If you decide to not associate with the stupid person you take away their power. Look at what the freedom to disassociate has cost Kanye. Your brain has an engage/ignore switch. Use it.

Silence is problematic as well.

Education, not ridicule, is the best path but how do you educate the unwilling and intellectually “uncurious”?

So you're saying Adidas would not have terminated their relationship with Kanye if nobody had spoken out? I think they are savvy enough to know
that what he said was an economic deal killer without one person saying they had verbal "violence" committed against them.

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

no, I think it was only because it was "obvious" that Adidas made that decision and that was only because people made a stink, called it out.

What seems to be missing from your logic, the sentiment of which I'd agree with, is that the algorithm intentionally amplifies the most, the most inflammatory statements, the hate speech...not the friendly, moderate speech. It gets the most reaction, negative or positive. And there are bots designed to "react" so as to trigger the algorithm to amplify the hate, many of which are planted by foreign adversaries.

It's all about the money.
With no liability due to Section 230.

I would be happy to have Section 230 modified or eliminated altogether. They should allow all speech or be treated like a publisher, with the attendant liability. While we're at it, how about reversing NY Times vs Sullivan, making all media responsible for libel. Where you and I disagree is on hate speech. Even the vile American Nazi Party was allowed to march in Skokie. Not that I'm welcoming the KKK to march down my street, but I would not cower behind my blinds. I would be in the street exercising my freedom of speech and telling them what a bunch of losers they were. All of the technical stuff like bots will eventually be dealt with. Adjust the algorithm to benefit the user, not the advertisers. If twitter becomes a free speech platform, could they charge a subscription for all, not just the blue checks, and eliminate the advertisers altogether?

Not sure where you get the idea that I'm opposed to freedom of speech. For instance your example.
Where have I ever suggested that I'm not pro freedom of speech?

I agree with you, the a-holes can say what they want in the truly public square, and those who disagree have every right to say so as well. That said, we obviously do regulate a variety of speech, and for important public policy reasons. I think that's important as well.

But providing a private platform for unregulated speech, shielded from all liability for that speech, is another matter. Making money from the most dangerous speech...needs to be regulated, whether through liability or actual government-imposed standards.

Re NYT v Sullivan, I believe the specific case involved proof of malice.
Sullivan did not prove the NYT had malice in its publication of the advertisement, most of which was an accurate critique by civil rights activists of a police department and its leadership. They got some things wrong, but the bulk of the critique was accurate.

The NYT did not differentially promote this statement versus other statements, did not have malice in their publication, or at least not provably so...as SCOTUS unanimously ruled.

The issue with the social media platforms is their known preferential promotion of the most incendiary statements, absent ANY effort to distinguish on the basis of accuracy, much less potential to damage.

I agree that bots could be "dealt with" but they haven't been, and Musk appears to not care either. He's providing validated identities to those who pay for them, with no actual effort to prove they are even actually real people, much less who they purport to be.

If you are asking whether some set of people would be willing to pay to be able to speak as they wish, spread whatever lies they wish, express whatever hate and calls for violence they wish, to monetize whatever grift they wish, to be subject to all of the above, and would be willing to do so with total transparency as to their accurate identities, I'd say it's likely to be a very very small group.

What is going on in social media depends on the anonymity of many of its participants, the gullibility of many others, and the massive grift of monetizing those eyeballs.

[Seacoaster(1)]

https://mobile.twitter.com/brittlestar/ ... 5832564737

[a fan]

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

Musk's team deletes posts and suspends users, my man. Just like the old guys.

And it's not a digital town square. It's a firm that sells advertising space. where YOU are the product.

The fact that people don't understand this is the problem.....what twitter edits, regardless of who runs it, is about not spooking their advertisers, and maximizing profits. It has NOTHING to do with left/right/center. It's about MONEY. Like every advertiser, they look at their demographics, and cater their ads to who is using twitter. THAT is the "conspiracy" at twitter.....it's about $$$$.

This same exact pressure applies to ALL MEDIA, not just twitter.

[Kismet]

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

Musk's team deletes posts and suspends users, my man. Just like the old guys.

And it's not a digital town square. It's a firm that sells advertising space. where YOU are the product.

The fact that people don't understand this is the problem.....what twitter edits, regardless of who runs it, is about not spooking their advertisers, and maximizing profits. It has NOTHING to do with left/right/center. It's about MONEY. Like every advertiser, they look at their demographics, and cater their ads to who is using twitter. THAT is the "conspiracy" at twitter.....it's about $$$$.

This same exact pressure applies to ALL MEDIA, not just twitter.

Yep - they just delete OTHER people's posts and users now.

Ad revenue if off like 80% since Musk took over, so even though he canned a bunch of people and reduced costs, revenue is in the tank.
Unlike his other businesses which make use of significant government subsidies and direct payments, there is no government lifeline in this business. In fact, the government can make this really difficult - like enforcement of the consent decree - which requires Twitter "to establish and maintain a program to ensure and regularly report that its new features do not further misrepresent “the extent to which it maintains and protects the security, privacy, confidentiality, or integrity of any nonpublic consumer information.”

[MDlaxfan76]

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

Musk's team deletes posts and suspends users, my man. Just like the old guys.

And it's not a digital town square. It's a firm that sells advertising space. where YOU are the product.

The fact that people don't understand this is the problem.....what twitter edits, regardless of who runs it, is about not spooking their advertisers, and maximizing profits. It has NOTHING to do with left/right/center. It's about MONEY. Like every advertiser, they look at their demographics, and cater their ads to who is using twitter. THAT is the "conspiracy" at twitter.....it's about $$$$.

This same exact pressure applies to ALL MEDIA, not just twitter.

Yep - they just delete OTHER people's posts and users now.

Ad revenue if off like 80% since Musk took over, so even though he canned a bunch of people and reduced costs, revenue is in the tank.
Unlike his other businesses which make use of significant government subsidies and direct payments, there is no government lifeline in this business. In fact, the government can make this really difficult - like enforcement of the consent decree - which requires Twitter "to establish and maintain a program to ensure and regularly report that its new features do not further misrepresent “the extent to which it maintains and protects the security, privacy, confidentiality, or integrity of any nonpublic consumer information.”

There's always My Pillow...

[youthathletics]

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

Musk's team deletes posts and suspends users, my man. Just like the old guys.

And it's not a digital town square. It's a firm that sells advertising space. where YOU are the product.

The fact that people don't understand this is the problem.....what twitter edits, regardless of who runs it, is about not spooking their advertisers, and maximizing profits. It has NOTHING to do with left/right/center. It's about MONEY. Like every advertiser, they look at their demographics, and cater their ads to who is using twitter. THAT is the "conspiracy" at twitter.....it's about $$$$.

This same exact pressure applies to ALL MEDIA, not just twitter.

Well......duhhh, it's almost always about money!

What is the reason that Musk will be charging to be 'certified'?

Maybe an added revenue stream to keep them afloat while they go through rough seas, maybe send a shot across the bow to combat advertisers, maybe a vision for something we are unaware of that will want users to pay a sub-fee...a new form of social media not dependent on advertising wouldn't that be great, no?, maybe something really devious that sucks everyone in and magnifies our digital fingerprint, maybe a new way towards a phone manufacturer (Twitter Phone) to compete with Apple and Android.....the point, is that we just do not know.

[Kismet]

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

Musk's team deletes posts and suspends users, my man. Just like the old guys.

And it's not a digital town square. It's a firm that sells advertising space. where YOU are the product.

The fact that people don't understand this is the problem.....what twitter edits, regardless of who runs it, is about not spooking their advertisers, and maximizing profits. It has NOTHING to do with left/right/center. It's about MONEY. Like every advertiser, they look at their demographics, and cater their ads to who is using twitter. THAT is the "conspiracy" at twitter.....it's about $$$$.

This same exact pressure applies to ALL MEDIA, not just twitter.

Yep - they just delete OTHER people's posts and users now.

Ad revenue if off like 80% since Musk took over, so even though he canned a bunch of people and reduced costs, revenue is in the tank.
Unlike his other businesses which make use of significant government subsidies and direct payments, there is no government lifeline in this business. In fact, the government can make this really difficult - like enforcement of the consent decree - which requires Twitter "to establish and maintain a program to ensure and regularly report that its new features do not further misrepresent “the extent to which it maintains and protects the security, privacy, confidentiality, or integrity of any nonpublic consumer information.”

There's always My Pillow...

His revenue is also in the tank just like Twitter....maybe WORSE. Plus he now has all those legal fees and a potential looming defamation lawsuit that could totally bankrupt him and his business.

[MDlaxfan76]

All of this outrage against Musk is a result of leveling out a viewpoint imbalance and lack of transparency in what has become the digital "town square". Some people are either too soft for free speech or want a monopoly on viewpoint. Embrace the stupid person's ability to speak. It only buttresses your right to voice your own views, stupid or brilliant.

Musk's team deletes posts and suspends users, my man. Just like the old guys.

And it's not a digital town square. It's a firm that sells advertising space. where YOU are the product.

The fact that people don't understand this is the problem.....what twitter edits, regardless of who runs it, is about not spooking their advertisers, and maximizing profits. It has NOTHING to do with left/right/center. It's about MONEY. Like every advertiser, they look at their demographics, and cater their ads to who is using twitter. THAT is the "conspiracy" at twitter.....it's about $$$$.

This same exact pressure applies to ALL MEDIA, not just twitter.

Yep - they just delete OTHER people's posts and users now.

Ad revenue if off like 80% since Musk took over, so even though he canned a bunch of people and reduced costs, revenue is in the tank.
Unlike his other businesses which make use of significant government subsidies and direct payments, there is no government lifeline in this business. In fact, the government can make this really difficult - like enforcement of the consent decree - which requires Twitter "to establish and maintain a program to ensure and regularly report that its new features do not further misrepresent “the extent to which it maintains and protects the security, privacy, confidentiality, or integrity of any nonpublic consumer information.”

There's always My Pillow...

His revenue is also in the tank just like Twitter....maybe WORSE. Plus he now has all those legal fees and a potential looming defamation lawsuit that could totally bankrupt him and his business.

Couldn't happen to a better fella...