There is a lot that goes into a top player. Median player around them, Program strength, Top Team Bias, Exposure, Strength of opponents, the Old boy/Girl lax network, etc. What makes number 10 better than 11 or 12, some of the above. Doesnt mean that #11 or 12 isnt a better player in her environment, for her team...I think that polls like this are, as RTC mentioned, for discussion purposes only. I also agree that there is a number (maybe not 200) as RTC points out - "the difference is razor thin"....Take many of these top players out of their high performing (high median player) teams and place them in a top 40 team, they will still be great, but wont have the same impact, notoriety, buzz, etc. They may still score like crazy (as their SOS may be lower) but may not be seen as high as their ranking with the pedigree of playing for UNC, BC, NW, MD, etc. Much of the strength of these players is the players around them.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:04 amAgreed. All the players have talent sufficient to land them on a college team, and more specifically on a team that regularly is a ranked team for those with greater talent. But there are a unique few that are undeniably gifted above their peers. And further still, those gifted players who can perform in crunch time makes even more separation.Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:16 am You can obviously shuffle the deck on many players in the top 200 but players in the Top 10 are uniquely talented in one way or another whether you want to admit it or not. Look at least years names - North, Ortega, Trenchard, Moreno, Mastrioni etc. The same will be true this year. There will be something unique and special about each of the Top 10 players that makes them a bit better then all the rest and separates them from the pack.
OuttaNowhereWregget--Redux
Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
***A perfect example is the Tewaaraton Award*** You cant lose 3 times to same team if you are that great.....OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:00 amI agree completely. It is interesting to see where players land in these rankings but I think it would be even more interesting to sit in on the meetings when IL comes up with the players and the order in which they are placed and listen in on why a given player is placed where they are and what criteria is used to come up with said placement. A lot of the awards and rankings are more and more these days to do with being fair and inclusive rather than hard statistics. A perfect example was the Honda award a few months ago.RollTheCrease wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:58 pm These lists are fun for discussion, but honestly I would be careful putting too much weight in them. My daughter played with a Top 10 ranked player. Solid player, but there were 5-6 on the team equally talented. The main difference I could tell from this player being ranked vs the others not was the extend this one and her parents marketed her. With the exception of a handful of players I think the difference between the top 200 players is razor thin.
I also agree with your point on the top 200 players. How much brighter would the player shine if she was on a different team? Perfect example is Sam Geiersbach with Carolina last season.
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Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
There's a lot of joy in the sport of women's lacrosse. Every once in a while, a stay at home defender ventures into the offensive zone and scores, much to the delight of her teammates. Here, BC's excellent Hollie Schleicher does it vs. Loyola in the quarters last year. Lots of grace, too. The title could just as well be Graceful Hollie Schleicher.
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IL's Top 50 Women's Players for 2023: Nos. 30-21
30. Shaylan Ahearn, M, Maryland
29. Madison Ahern, A, Notre Dame
28. Mairead Durkin, D, James Madison
27. Ashlyn McGovern, A, Virginia
26. Isabella Peterson, A, James Madison
25. Hannah Leubecker, A, Maryland
24. Emma Tyrrell, M, Syracuse
23. Emma LoPinto, A, Florida
22. Sydney Scales, D, Boston College
21. Jillian Wilson, M, Loyola
29. Madison Ahern, A, Notre Dame
28. Mairead Durkin, D, James Madison
27. Ashlyn McGovern, A, Virginia
26. Isabella Peterson, A, James Madison
25. Hannah Leubecker, A, Maryland
24. Emma Tyrrell, M, Syracuse
23. Emma LoPinto, A, Florida
22. Sydney Scales, D, Boston College
21. Jillian Wilson, M, Loyola
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What's the buzz about?
This little 27 second clip has stirred a lot of interest--over 6000 views. Makes me wonder why. Who are the folks sending it along for others to look at? Nothing sensational about it, no hyperbole in the description--but my, my this barely 2 second clip of coach Nielsen is generating a lot of views.
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Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
Both the Tewaaraton award and the Honda award recognize individual achievement.Madlax59 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:44 pm***A perfect example is the Tewaaraton Award*** You cant lose 3 times to same team if you are that great.....OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:00 amI agree completely. It is interesting to see where players land in these rankings but I think it would be even more interesting to sit in on the meetings when IL comes up with the players and the order in which they are placed and listen in on why a given player is placed where they are and what criteria is used to come up with said placement. A lot of the awards and rankings are more and more these days to do with being fair and inclusive rather than hard statistics. A perfect example was the Honda award a few months ago.RollTheCrease wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:58 pm These lists are fun for discussion, but honestly I would be careful putting too much weight in them. My daughter played with a Top 10 ranked player. Solid player, but there were 5-6 on the team equally talented. The main difference I could tell from this player being ranked vs the others not was the extend this one and her parents marketed her. With the exception of a handful of players I think the difference between the top 200 players is razor thin.
I also agree with your point on the top 200 players. How much brighter would the player shine if she was on a different team? Perfect example is Sam Geiersbach with Carolina last season.
North 23 games 92 goals 23 assists 115 pts 139 draw controls
Ortega 22 games 69 goals 44 assists 113 pts 1 draw control
North vs Carolina in '22 - 11 goals 2 assists 17 dc’s
Ortega vs BC in '22 - 7 goals 7 assists 0 dc’s
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Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
The final top 50 hasn't been released but some of the results have leaked out. They got this one wrong. Meghan is not 24 spots better than her sister. If Emma's injury isn't taken into consideration, (and it's anyone's guess as to what she'll look like in 2023), Emma's much closer to her sister. They both belong in the top 10. And on another note, if Meghan Tyrrell is the number one player in the country according to Inside Lacrosse, then the field is wide open for this years Tewaaraton. I think if Izzy Scane is even 75% coming back from her injury, she'll be a shoo-in.
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Best of 2022
Thought I’d get a head start on the feature USA Lacrosse Magazine will run beginning Monday. I’m treating this in a completely subjective manner. In addition to my own preferences and biases in the answers, I'm also adding some categories and subtracting others. Answers may be multiple, or one with additional honorable mention(s). Decent way to pass the time while waiting for the 2nd Friday in February:
THE CATEGORIES
BEST MOMENT
For the best moment of the 2022 season:
BEST COMEBACK
For the game where a team was down late yet kept fighting and came back to win:
BEST REGULAR SEASON GAME:
BEST CONFERENCE PLAYOFF GAME:
BEST NCAA TOURNAMENT GAME:
FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH
For the graduate student player who had the most impressive year:
ALWAYS A BRIDESMAID, NEVER A BRIDE
For the team with the hardest luck, with 2022 being yet another in a long series of disappointments:
BEST WOMEN’S RECORD-BREAKER
For the women’s player whose new record is most impressive:
COACH OF THE YEAR
For the coach who had the most impressive season:
BEST GOAL
For the goal that made us watch over and over again:
BEST BREAKOUT PLAYER
For the player who quickly became a household name:
BEST IN GOAL
For the goalie who took care of business between the pipes:
BEST HIGHLIGHT
For the players prone to go viral:
BEST IN CLUTCH
For the players who embrace the biggest moments:
BEST WOMEN’S PLAYER
For the larger-than-life women’s star who stood above them all in 2022:
BEST DEVELOPMENT TO IMPROVE THE SPORT IN BROADCASTING
Considering what changes affected the broadcasting new to the sport in 2022:
Here's a good little aid if you want to scroll back through the games to refresh the memory:
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/WDI/scores/2022
THE CATEGORIES
BEST MOMENT
For the best moment of the 2022 season:
BEST COMEBACK
For the game where a team was down late yet kept fighting and came back to win:
BEST REGULAR SEASON GAME:
BEST CONFERENCE PLAYOFF GAME:
BEST NCAA TOURNAMENT GAME:
FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH
For the graduate student player who had the most impressive year:
ALWAYS A BRIDESMAID, NEVER A BRIDE
For the team with the hardest luck, with 2022 being yet another in a long series of disappointments:
BEST WOMEN’S RECORD-BREAKER
For the women’s player whose new record is most impressive:
COACH OF THE YEAR
For the coach who had the most impressive season:
BEST GOAL
For the goal that made us watch over and over again:
BEST BREAKOUT PLAYER
For the player who quickly became a household name:
BEST IN GOAL
For the goalie who took care of business between the pipes:
BEST HIGHLIGHT
For the players prone to go viral:
BEST IN CLUTCH
For the players who embrace the biggest moments:
BEST WOMEN’S PLAYER
For the larger-than-life women’s star who stood above them all in 2022:
BEST DEVELOPMENT TO IMPROVE THE SPORT IN BROADCASTING
Considering what changes affected the broadcasting new to the sport in 2022:
Here's a good little aid if you want to scroll back through the games to refresh the memory:
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/WDI/scores/2022
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Best Broadcasting Development to Improve the Sport in 2022
Without a doubt, the best change in broadcasting last season occurred when ESPN decided to space and televise all 4 of the NCAA quarterfinal games so that each game had its own moment as the exclusive game being televised in a 2-1/2 hour time block. It didn't matter that not all of the games were competitive. What mattered is that each game had its own moment to strut and fret on the stage without distraction. If one chose, one could have parked on the couch and enjoyed 10 straight hours of NCAA Tournament quarterfinal women's lacrosse coverage. Better than Super Sunday at this address. Looking forward to more Quarterfinal Days in the coming years. (Just let's tell coach Spallina to watch the potty mouth while the cameras are lurking on the sidelines during timeouts and huddles. Lots of impressionable future players don't need to hear the gutter talk.)
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IL's Top 50 Women's Players for 2023: Nos. 20-11
20. Meghan Ball, D, Rutgers
19. Kasey Choma, M, Notre Dame
18. Brooklyn Walker-Welch, D, North Carolina
17. Danielle Pavinelli, A, Florida
16. Erin Coykendall, A, Northwestern
15. Ashley Humphrey, A, Stanford
14. Emily Nalls, D, North Carolina
13. Marge Donovan, D, Maryland
12. Sam Thacker, D, Denver
11. Jenn Medjid, A, Boston College
19. Kasey Choma, M, Notre Dame
18. Brooklyn Walker-Welch, D, North Carolina
17. Danielle Pavinelli, A, Florida
16. Erin Coykendall, A, Northwestern
15. Ashley Humphrey, A, Stanford
14. Emily Nalls, D, North Carolina
13. Marge Donovan, D, Maryland
12. Sam Thacker, D, Denver
11. Jenn Medjid, A, Boston College
2023 Top 50 Players, 10-1
The top 10 came out yesterday.
#10 Caitlyn Wurzburger, A, North Carolina
#9 Cassidy Spilis, M, Rutgers
#8 Katie Detwiler, D, Loyola
#7 Emily Sterling, G, Maryland
#6 Ellie Masera, M, Stony Brook
#5 Maddie Jenner, Dr., Duke
#4 Belle Smith, M, Boston College
#3 Abby Bosco, D, Maryland
#2 Izzy Scane, A, Northwestern
#1 Meaghan Tyrrell, A, Syracuse
#10 Caitlyn Wurzburger, A, North Carolina
#9 Cassidy Spilis, M, Rutgers
#8 Katie Detwiler, D, Loyola
#7 Emily Sterling, G, Maryland
#6 Ellie Masera, M, Stony Brook
#5 Maddie Jenner, Dr., Duke
#4 Belle Smith, M, Boston College
#3 Abby Bosco, D, Maryland
#2 Izzy Scane, A, Northwestern
#1 Meaghan Tyrrell, A, Syracuse
Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
#5? Really? Sorry, nice draw specialist, but second best Middie on this list? Oh that's right, she is listed as draw, not middie....
[edit] great draw specialist, but still not sure @ #5
[edit] great draw specialist, but still not sure @ #5
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Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
Agreed!Idontknowtherules wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:35 pmI would have to agree with you on this. She’s very very good at the draw, but not even a top 10. imo
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Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
^^^ 100% many many more talented athletes ahead of #5OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:55 pmAgreed!Idontknowtherules wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:35 pmI would have to agree with you on this. She’s very very good at the draw, but not even a top 10. imo
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Re: Best Goal, Moment, NCAA Tourney Game and Comeback of 2022
This one play, this one goal that BC’s Cassidy Weeks scored vs Maryland in the NCAA semifinal encompasses these 4 categories. Was there a more dramatic comeback? Of course—Carolina over Northwestern in the other semifinal. Best moment? Game? Goal? Maybe--but not for me. As a fan of the Eagles, this was the high point of my season.
I enjoy a lot about this goal, the patience of the BC offense until the shot they wanted opened up. The attention to detail of Jenn Medjid who ran over to North to make certain sure she understood the play they were running. The clutch catch and score of cool Cassidy Weeks under pressure for the goal that sent the defending champs back to the final for the 5th year in a row. Those lovely fluorescent yellow BC fans in the stands--hugging, jumping, arms raised in triumph. That was the goal, moment, game and comeback all in one for me in '22.
And to do it against the Terps of all teams was especially sweet. One doesn't see the Mighty Maryland Chelonians choke away a game too often, but the winners of 15 national championships did it here in grand style on a grand stage. They let a 3 goal lead evaporate with 7 minutes to go in the 4th. In the heat of the moment, critical errors in judgment and execution did them in. Your granpappy's Terps would have never wilted like the '22 edition of the team from the Old Line State did.
All to say, that's why this one play completes the answer of these four questions, and was far and away my best moment of the 2022 campaign.
I enjoy a lot about this goal, the patience of the BC offense until the shot they wanted opened up. The attention to detail of Jenn Medjid who ran over to North to make certain sure she understood the play they were running. The clutch catch and score of cool Cassidy Weeks under pressure for the goal that sent the defending champs back to the final for the 5th year in a row. Those lovely fluorescent yellow BC fans in the stands--hugging, jumping, arms raised in triumph. That was the goal, moment, game and comeback all in one for me in '22.
And to do it against the Terps of all teams was especially sweet. One doesn't see the Mighty Maryland Chelonians choke away a game too often, but the winners of 15 national championships did it here in grand style on a grand stage. They let a 3 goal lead evaporate with 7 minutes to go in the 4th. In the heat of the moment, critical errors in judgment and execution did them in. Your granpappy's Terps would have never wilted like the '22 edition of the team from the Old Line State did.
All to say, that's why this one play completes the answer of these four questions, and was far and away my best moment of the 2022 campaign.
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Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
The errors mentioned in the previous post that cost Maryland the game:
On the first error, defender Peduzzi had no plan or clue what she was doing when she carried the ball deep into the Boston College end with more than 60 seconds left on the shot clock, and coughed up the ball before being called for a crease violation. Then Cordingley, too careless with the ball and unaware of her surroundings, allowing a fairly simple caused turnover from Cassidy Weeks. And finally, with the game tied and Leubecker with possession, another Maryland player with no plan when she got swallowed up by the BC defense before turning the ball over.
On the first error, defender Peduzzi had no plan or clue what she was doing when she carried the ball deep into the Boston College end with more than 60 seconds left on the shot clock, and coughed up the ball before being called for a crease violation. Then Cordingley, too careless with the ball and unaware of her surroundings, allowing a fairly simple caused turnover from Cassidy Weeks. And finally, with the game tied and Leubecker with possession, another Maryland player with no plan when she got swallowed up by the BC defense before turning the ball over.
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Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
I have to (grudgingly) hand it to the Tar Heels in 2022 though. They were thrice superior over my beloved Eagles…
Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
Sure were!!!OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:18 am I have to (grudgingly) hand it to the Tar Heels in 2022 though. They were thrice superior over my beloved Eagles…
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Re: OuttaNowhereWregget—Opinions, photos, highlights, news, etc.
Whenever I watch the waning moments of this game, I am happy I am not an ardent Maryland fan, because the whole end of this game is sad and frustrating. Right or wrong, I have trouble blaming Peduzzi for the turnover. She is a defender, not a regular and dependable ball carrier (which separates her from the elite defenders like Trenchard, Donovan, Detwiler, Nalls, Walker-Welch). It was on one of her teammates to get themselves in a position in which she could make a clean handoff. But Cordingly and Leubecker didn't play the way your first team women have to play. Just a dagger. In the end, it is just easier to not blame Maryland, but credit an exceptionally well-coached, really battle tested BC lineup, which had the grit and courage to pull this one out. Weeks's handle on that goal still leaves me in awe.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:25 am The errors mentioned in the previous post that cost Maryland the game:
On the first error, defender Peduzzi had no plan or clue what she was doing when she carried the ball deep into the Boston College end with more than 60 seconds left on the shot clock, and coughed up the ball before being called for a crease violation. Then Cordingley, too careless with the ball and unaware of her surroundings, allowing a fairly simple caused turnover from Cassidy Weeks. And finally, with the game tied and Leubecker with possession, another Maryland player with no plan when she got swallowed up by the BC defense before turning the ball over.