media matters

[a fan]

...it ain't that hard to figure out how to address someone.

If some 18 year old recruit who gets punished if he gets it wrong can add 1+1 and get 2? So can American adults.

And my second point, CLEARLY how you address someone is important in America. Always has been.
Ever seen someone who's rude to a waiter or employee at a store? For me? That's it, man, we're not friends.....I have no interest in spending time with someone who just can't handle respecting their fellow humans, and think that they're a F'ing King.

It's virtue signaling. And they're doing it because FoxNation has made this an "issue", instead of working on making America a better place.

Ten steak dinners says that when kram and OS meet someone who says "please address me as Sir".....they do it.

They're arguing to argue. I don't believe them. They're good, honest, polite Americans, just like the rest of us.

AS usual -- you are misrepresenting our position & then blasting off on a tangent.

And that would bother me if you didn't turn around and do the same exact thing....misrepresent my position.

My post, which generated this HUGE controversy on this forum, was how to determine the self-selected sexual identity of the CO shooting victims. It was not immediately obvious in that case.

Nope, note even close. What generated my comment was you expending energy, pretending that you couldn't figure out how the media would know what the victim's preferred pronouns were, and implying annoyance that this was an issue. Of all the things you could chose to post about a mass murder....THIS is what gets your attention. So no human reaction like "wow, what a waste of life". No sir, it didn't occur to you to share your views on the loss of life for no reason. You instead chose to mock pronouns as you have done in the past----context. And then act like you don't know what that communicates to the rest of us.

Remember -- my post was in the context of police or media naming the victims in their initial hurried reports, under time pressure,
...rather than what you blew it up & distorted it to be.

Sigh. What's the first thing the police do when someone is killed, OS? They contact 'the first of......" what? And when they did that, they asked for pronouns to put in some effort to respect the dead. That's it. That's how they "figured it out". And you're telling me that a man who understands the physics of how planes lift off the ground can't figure that out all by himself? You need someone to explain this to you? Really?

You're not being honest. Hence my reaction. You're pulling a Pete: pretending you're too stupid to understand simple things.

They're trying to respect the people who just had their heads blown off by a nutjob, OS. What a great time to make fun of them and their desire to be treated with respect after a shortened lifetime of abuse.

You would not have made this post if the first story came out naming the veteran a Captain, and later corrected the piece to say he retired as a Major. Or if the journalist took measures to get the correct rank straight out of the gate. It's just basic respect and decency.

[old salt]

...it ain't that hard to figure out how to address someone.

If some 18 year old recruit who gets punished if he gets it wrong can add 1+1 and get 2? So can American adults.

And my second point, CLEARLY how you address someone is important in America. Always has been.
Ever seen someone who's rude to a waiter or employee at a store? For me? That's it, man, we're not friends.....I have no interest in spending time with someone who just can't handle respecting their fellow humans, and think that they're a F'ing King.

It's virtue signaling. And they're doing it because FoxNation has made this an "issue", instead of working on making America a better place.

Ten steak dinners says that when kram and OS meet someone who says "please address me as Sir".....they do it.

They're arguing to argue. I don't believe them. They're good, honest, polite Americans, just like the rest of us.

AS usual -- you are misrepresenting our position & then blasting off on a tangent.

And that would bother me if you didn't turn around and do the same exact thing....misrepresent my position.

My post, which generated this HUGE controversy on this forum, was how to determine the self-selected sexual identity of the CO shooting victims. It was not immediately obvious in that case.

Nope, note even close. What generated my comment was you expending energy, pretending that you couldn't figure out how the media would know what the victim's preferred pronouns were, and implying annoyance that this was an issue. Of all the things you could chose to post about a mass murder....THIS is what gets your attention. So no human reaction like "wow, what a waste of life". No sir, it didn't occur to you to share your views on the loss of life for no reason. You instead chose to mock pronouns as you have done in the past----context. And then act like you don't know what that communicates to the rest of us.

Remember -- my post was in the context of police or media naming the victims in their initial hurried reports, under time pressure,
...rather than what you blew it up & distorted it to be.

Sigh. What's the first thing the police do when someone is killed, OS? They contact 'the first of......" what? And when they did that, they asked for pronouns to put in some effort to respect the dead. That's it. That's how they "figured it out". And you're telling me that a man who understands the physics of how planes lift off the ground can't figure that out all by himself? You need someone to explain this to you? Really?

You're not being honest. Hence my reaction. You're pulling a Pete: pretending you're too stupid to understand simple things.

They're trying to respect the people who just had their heads blown off by a nutjob, OS. What a great time to make fun of them and their desire to be treated with respect after a shortened lifetime of abuse.

You would not have made this post if the first story came out naming the veteran a Captain, and later corrected the piece to say he retired as a Major. Or if the journalist took measures to get the correct rank straight out of the gate. It's just basic respect and decency.

I suggest you reread my original post, then breath into a paper bag. You are raving about things I did not say or imply.

After my initial post, I was responding to attacks on me. I did not immediately hand wring about the shootings. If you check my record, you'll see that I tend not to in these endless mass shootings, even when the victims include school kids, military vets or law enforcement officers.
It's pointless, imo.

I was making fun of the posters attacking me. I was pointing out the difficulty & the fear of mis-gendering someone.
The police did a good job in this case & got the info for the media. That is hardly always the case.
Other police & media have been criticized for mis-gendering.
https://www.google.com/search?q=police+ ... nt=gws-wiz

[Typical Lax Dad]

...it ain't that hard to figure out how to address someone.

If some 18 year old recruit who gets punished if he gets it wrong can add 1+1 and get 2? So can American adults.

And my second point, CLEARLY how you address someone is important in America. Always has been.
Ever seen someone who's rude to a waiter or employee at a store? For me? That's it, man, we're not friends.....I have no interest in spending time with someone who just can't handle respecting their fellow humans, and think that they're a F'ing King.

It's virtue signaling. And they're doing it because FoxNation has made this an "issue", instead of working on making America a better place.

Ten steak dinners says that when kram and OS meet someone who says "please address me as Sir".....they do it.

They're arguing to argue. I don't believe them. They're good, honest, polite Americans, just like the rest of us.

AS usual -- you are misrepresenting our position & then blasting off on a tangent.

And that would bother me if you didn't turn around and do the same exact thing....misrepresent my position.

My post, which generated this HUGE controversy on this forum, was how to determine the self-selected sexual identity of the CO shooting victims. It was not immediately obvious in that case.

Nope, note even close. What generated my comment was you expending energy, pretending that you couldn't figure out how the media would know what the victim's preferred pronouns were, and implying annoyance that this was an issue. Of all the things you could chose to post about a mass murder....THIS is what gets your attention. So no human reaction like "wow, what a waste of life". No sir, it didn't occur to you to share your views on the loss of life for no reason. You instead chose to mock pronouns as you have done in the past----context. And then act like you don't know what that communicates to the rest of us.

Remember -- my post was in the context of police or media naming the victims in their initial hurried reports, under time pressure,
...rather than what you blew it up & distorted it to be.

Sigh. What's the first thing the police do when someone is killed, OS? They contact 'the first of......" what? And when they did that, they asked for pronouns to put in some effort to respect the dead. That's it. That's how they "figured it out". And you're telling me that a man who understands the physics of how planes lift off the ground can't figure that out all by himself? You need someone to explain this to you? Really?

You're not being honest. Hence my reaction. You're pulling a Pete: pretending you're too stupid to understand simple things.

They're trying to respect the people who just had their heads blown off by a nutjob, OS. What a great time to make fun of them and their desire to be treated with respect after a shortened lifetime of abuse.

You would not have made this post if the first story came out naming the veteran a Captain, and later corrected the piece to say he retired as a Major. Or if the journalist took measures to get the correct rank straight out of the gate. It's just basic respect and decency.

I suggest you reread my original post, then breath into a paper bag. You are raving about things I did not say or imply.

After my initial post, I was responding to attacks on me. I did not immediately hand wring about the shootings. If you check my record, you'll see that I tend not to in these endless mass shootings, even when the victims include school kids, military vets or law enforcement officers.
It's pointless, imo.

I was making fun of the posters attacking me. I was pointing out the difficulty & the fear of mis-gendering someone.
The police did a good job in this case & got the info for the media. That is hardly always the case.
Other police & media have been criticized for mis-gendering.
https://www.google.com/search?q=police+ ... nt=gws-wiz

stop lying.

[Farfromgeneva]

...When I get after you it’s the same way I get after a lawyer who gets into business decision making of clients or bosses (tactical and think they’re strategic) or bankers who think they can actually run a business (strategic minds but not good tactically) when it appears you want to be Renaissance man as does everyone but it’s a myth like the myth that multitasking is effective or optimal. Interjecting into others lives and putting on the facade of being more holistic and denying the contextual relevance that pervades our lives. We, including myself, are all guilty of it. We don’t see all the reflections of the moon off the lake like the Native American chief did going to see his bird at night but we think we do and when we pretend it’s reality and jam our egos into the lives of others is when I push back.

Do you not understand that? Is it because you catch it a lot here and sometimes it’s over the top or a bit aggressive?

Thanks for all the other, but No, I do not really understand the remainder. But that's ok, because I don't seek spiritual guidance or life coaching in this forum. I just post on matters which interest me & seek information from others to expand my horizons. I hardly claim, or aspire, to be a Reniassance man. I refer to my experiences when I think they are relevant. I'm not sure how I've jammed my ego into the lives of others, but I'll think about that further. On the strategy vs tactics issue -- imho, it's an imprecise analogy that is overused & often sounds pretentious. I suppose I resent that it has been lifted from it's military origins, thus I don't throw it around because it has serious implications to me. Thanks for the civil discourse.

This is better discourse totally.

But do you consider you make mountains out of molehills on other topics as well?

Resent is a personal feeling it’s fine to have but like I just told Brooklyn, ask first before assuming something that isn’t in fact the case and isn’t that ambiguous either.

Military originals sure on tactical v strategic but so much about military you experienced is different form it’s origins. Life was different. Guilt the word has an origin in debt but is that how it’s used now??

Spiritual guidance feels a bit passive aggressive but i won’t go there because it’s not worth it beyond that comment.

[Farfromgeneva]

But of course you told me you’d never believe me about a finance/banking thing I’ve seen first hand so don’t we end up at a point of trust but verify? I’d hope you’d give others the same courtesy who’s lived in multiple worlds as well.

I struggled to remember this but just did. The unemployed 18 year old with no credit history securing a $30K car loan. I still don't see that ever happening but I do respect your expertise and experience in that world.

I respect yours too, and haven’t ever gotten after you like I have others because what I see in you.

Bigger picture point is we all have unique experiences in life and are “snowflakes” in that regard. What’s important is how we interpret it and then convey/translate it to others. Knowledge and experiences should be for sharing, not lording over others as a weapon. I try, Peter brown clearly resent me trying to share my experiences but that’s how I view it. We can’t always do that because it’s just gabardine to explain or in some cases because it would require revealing something one isn’t allowed to. My challenge to others is to help me understand their experiences, not to just tell me “because I said so”.

[a fan]

I suggest you reread my original post, then breath into a paper bag. You are raving about things I did not say or imply.

Oh, I have read your post. Have you? I'm not raving. I'm calmly telling you what you're communicating, and reacting to you trying to play dumb.

What you want everyone here to do is ignore every post you've ever made, and pretend like you're a brand new poster here, posting for the first time. Sorry my man, that's not how it works. You want us to forget that you've mocked pronouns before...and have in this very thread: your "{Dmac -- how do you think this Navy training video went over in the Goat Locker ? }".....again, making fun.

You and I butt heads when you try and act like you have no posting history. You have a history of mocking pronouns. I'm responding to that history coupled with the post. Next time, do as you claim you practice and say nothing about a mass shooting. Then I have nothing to react to....simple.

I did not immediately hand wring about the shootings. If you check my record, you'll see that I tend not to in these endless mass shootings, even when the victims include school kids, military vets or law enforcement officers.
It's pointless, imo.

Yet you saw fit to comment, and not for the first time, about pronouns used in a story about a mass shooting.

And then pretend, as you are here, that you just have no earthly idea why anyone his reacting to your obvious mocking of the media daring to try and show respect for the dead.

[old salt]

I suggest you reread my original post, then breath into a paper bag. You are raving about things I did not say or imply.

Oh, I have read your post. Have you? I'm not raving. I'm calmly telling you what you're communicating, and reacting to you trying to play dumb.

What you want everyone here to do is ignore every post you've ever made, and pretend like you're a brand new poster here, posting for the first time. Sorry my man, that's not how it works. You want us to forget that you've mocked pronouns before...and have in this very thread: your "{Dmac -- how do you think this Navy training video went over in the Goat Locker ? }".....again, making fun.

You and I butt heads when you try and act like you have no posting history. You have a history of mocking pronouns. I'm responding to that history coupled with the post. Next time, do as you claim you practice and say nothing about a mass shooting. Then I have nothing to react to....simple.

I did not immediately hand wring about the shootings. If you check my record, you'll see that I tend not to in these endless mass shootings, even when the victims include school kids, military vets or law enforcement officers.
It's pointless, imo.

Yet you saw fit to comment, and not for the first time, about pronouns used in a story about a mass shooting.

And then pretend, as you are here, that you just have no earthly idea why anyone his reacting to your obvious mocking of the media daring to try and show respect for the dead.

Yes. I find the pronoun issue amusing, & continue to. imho, it's the tail wagging the dog. Expecting all of society to jump through hoops & change our language, for a small minority. That is not disrespecting or showing a lack of sympathy for the shooting victims. I'm making fun of the media & my attackers. imo -- people should be "gendered" based on what the ID in their wallet says &/or the appearance they present. If the police, media, or individuals get it different than the person's wishes, it's on that person for not conveying it more clearly. The burden is theirs, imo.

[admin]

Crime coverage on Fo卐 News halved once US midterms were over

Let's stop with the swastikas. It's trolling.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I suggest you reread my original post, then breath into a paper bag. You are raving about things I did not say or imply.

Oh, I have read your post. Have you? I'm not raving. I'm calmly telling you what you're communicating, and reacting to you trying to play dumb.

What you want everyone here to do is ignore every post you've ever made, and pretend like you're a brand new poster here, posting for the first time. Sorry my man, that's not how it works. You want us to forget that you've mocked pronouns before...and have in this very thread: your "{Dmac -- how do you think this Navy training video went over in the Goat Locker ? }".....again, making fun.

You and I butt heads when you try and act like you have no posting history. You have a history of mocking pronouns. I'm responding to that history coupled with the post. Next time, do as you claim you practice and say nothing about a mass shooting. Then I have nothing to react to....simple.

I did not immediately hand wring about the shootings. If you check my record, you'll see that I tend not to in these endless mass shootings, even when the victims include school kids, military vets or law enforcement officers.
It's pointless, imo.

Yet you saw fit to comment, and not for the first time, about pronouns used in a story about a mass shooting.

And then pretend, as you are here, that you just have no earthly idea why anyone his reacting to your obvious mocking of the media daring to try and show respect for the dead.

Yes. I find the pronoun issue amusing, & continue to. imho, it's the tail wagging the dog. Expecting all of society to jump through hoops & change our language, for a small minority. That is not disrespecting or showing a lack of sympathy for the shooting victims. I'm making fun of the media & my attackers. imo -- people should be "gendered" based on what the ID in their wallet says &/or the appearance they present. If the police, media, or individuals get it different than the person's wishes, it's on that person for not conveying it more clearly. The burden is theirs, imo.

Colored folk can’t tell you what to call ‘em.

[a fan]

Yes. I find the pronoun issue amusing, & continue to.

I know. Seems i've yet again done a fine job of describing your position despite your protests to the contrary.

No number of metaphors will change your mind, because you have a blind spot for the gay community like so many Americans your age. Oh well.

imho, it's the tail wagging the dog. Expecting all of society to jump through hoops & change our language, for a small minority.

Yep. Your team said the same thing about black Americans and Native Americans....or when you used lovely words like WOP's or Spics. I don't expect this to be any different. If you don't want to show your fellow Americans respect, millions of white guys just won't do it. Well, at least until a black guy put them in the hospital for calling them "boy", I guess.

That is not disrespecting or showing a lack of sympathy for the shooting victims.

I disagree, but you do you.

I'm making fun of the media & my attackers. imo -- people should be "gendered" based on what the ID in their wallet says &/or the appearance they present.

Yes, by all means keep lying and trying to score RepublicanPoints. If someone told you "call me sir" or "call Mr. Stevens', you'd do it without hesitation. Stop trying to impress your pals by claiming you'd intentionally be a d*ck to someone you meet for the first time. I'm not buying it.

[DMac]

I'm not so sure about that "sir" part, I'm going to need an explanation (a good one) for that one.
That's apt to be a real short meeting.

[Brooklyn]

Crime coverage on ___ News halved once US midterms were over

Let's stop with the swastikas. It's trolling.

Sorry. Won't happen again

[a fan]

I'm not so sure about that "sir" part, I'm going to need an explanation (a good one) for that one.
That's apt to be a real short meeting.

Bad example. You get my overall point. I personally wouldn't have a problem calling someone "sir" if they asked me to.

I've never once argued, or gave a second thought, about someone correcting me as to how I address them.

The big one in my life? Ma'am, instead of Miss. SO many evil eyes that I finally figured out the graceful way out was to ALWAYS use "MIss".

Millions aren't ready for it, I understand that. Where I have a problem is the idea of INTENTIONALLY disrespecting someone. That's it...my ONLY quibble with this conversation. If someone asks you to address them a certain way, I simply don't get where the harm comes in in simply obliging. Be nice.

I despise Donald Trump. But if I met him, I'd call him Mr. President with ZERO hesitation. He doesn't need to hear I can't stand him....who the F cares what I think? Keep it to yourself, and be nice.

[old salt]

Yes. I find the pronoun issue amusing, & continue to.

I know. Seems i've yet again done a fine job of describing your position despite your protests to the contrary.

No number of metaphors will change your mind, because you have a blind spot for the gay community like so many Americans your age. Oh well.
I'm fine with the gay community. They can do as they please. This is about my speech & changing how we use the entire English language. All of a sudden, it's insensitive not to change how we use pronouns. I ask again -- how are Romance language cultures adapting to this ? Their entire language is gender based.

imho, it's the tail wagging the dog. Expecting all of society to jump through hoops & change our language, for a small minority.

Yep. Your team said the same thing about black Americans and Native Americans....or when you used lovely words like WOP's or Spics. I don't expect this to be any different. that's a stretch, even for you. Your team records are a bit confused. If you don't want to show your fellow Americans respect, millions of white guys just won't do it. Well, at least until a black guy put them in the hospital for calling them "boy", I guess. So should we expect violence for not asking about & using the preferred pronoun ?

That is not disrespecting or showing a lack of sympathy for the shooting victims.

I disagree, but you do you.

I'm making fun of the media & my attackers. imo -- people should be "gendered" based on what the ID in their wallet says &/or the appearance they present.

Yes, by all means keep lying and trying to score RepublicanPoints. If someone told you "call me sir" or "call Mr. Stevens', you'd do it without hesitation.
No I wouldn't. I'd probably give a W-T-F look, say "nice meeting you" & walk away. Stop trying to impress your pals by claiming you'd intentionally be a d*ck to someone you meet for the first time. I'm not buying it.

[Brooklyn]

a fan,

I despise Donald Trump. But if I met him, I'd call him Mr. President with ZERO hesitation. He doesn't need to hear I can't stand him....who the F cares what I think? Keep it to yourself, and be nice.

Fox network never referred to "President" Obama. It was either Obama or to the president. They hated to acknowledge him as the President of the USA who won with the majority of the American vote. But they sure as hell kissed up to trump.

[old salt]

Colored folk can’t tell you what to call ‘em.

I can recall when that was polite & preferred terminology.
The changes since have been a logical evolution & a smooth transition.
They did not require a change in how we employ the English language.
It did not require an inquiry of every individual of how they preferred to be referred to,
...& then being accused of insensitivity if you fail to do so.

[old salt]

Where I have a problem is the idea of INTENTIONALLY disrespecting someone. That's it...my ONLY quibble with this conversation. If someone asks you to address them a certain way, I simply don't get where the harm comes in in simply obliging. Be nice.

Who is disrespecting anyone ? Who is ignoring their preference ? We are being faulted for speaking based on their appearance rather than first having inquired about their preference, ...even in cases after they are deceased. If you get it wrong & did not investigate in advance, you've mis-gendered someone.

[DMac]

I'm not so sure about that "sir" part, I'm going to need an explanation (a good one) for that one.
That's apt to be a real short meeting.

Bad example. You get my overall point. I personally wouldn't have a problem calling someone "sir" if they asked me to.

I've never once argued, or gave a second thought, about someone correcting me as to how I address them.

The big one in my life? Ma'am, instead of Miss. SO many evil eyes that I finally figured out the graceful way out was to ALWAYS use "MIss".

Millions aren't ready for it, I understand that. Where I have a problem is the idea of INTENTIONALLY disrespecting someone. That's it...my ONLY quibble with this conversation. If someone asks you to address them a certain way, I simply don't get where the harm comes in in simply obliging. Be nice.

I despise Donald Trump. But if I met him, I'd call him Mr. President with ZERO hesitation. He doesn't need to hear I can't stand him....who the F cares what I think? Keep it to yourself, and be nice.

Might be a little hard to believe but manners and behavior were a real big deal in my house growing up and there was little room for error without consequences, likely in the form of a stern lesson learning lecture. Smart asz and disrespect garnered more severe consequences. I have zero problem calling anybody whatever they want to be called (there are exceptions...if a police officer insists I call him officer it's not going to work). The whole thing is pretty much a non issue to me, in the grand scheme of things it's a pretty minor thing not affecting all that many. I can get along with most everybody whatever they want be called.

[DMac]

old salt wrote
No I wouldn't. I'd probably give a W-T-F look, say "nice meeting you" & walk away.

Was thinking pretty much the same with the sir thing but I'd probably say, oh really, what kind of big shot are you?

[Farfromgeneva]

Crime coverage on Fo卐 News halved once US midterms were over

Let's stop with the swastikas. It's trolling.

But he’s the one guy Peter Brown was cool with…