2024

[elonmuskrockefeller]

Thanks to his close win in the AZ Senate race, Mark Kelly has attained national recognition & prominence, after going largely unnoticed during his initial 2 year Senate term.

Already known for his (& his twin brother's) astronaut service, it's interesting that he chose to wear his Pax River Navy Test Pilot vintage flight jacket in nearly all his campaign appearances covered by national media.

With Top Gun : Maverick still on movie screens, the patches on his Navy flight jacket make it a provocative campaign wardrobe choice over his NASA Astronaut blue flight jacket.
https://www.news18.com/news/world/kelly ... 66937.html
https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-s-twi ... paceflight

As the Dems search for younger, more mentally agile, potential 2024 successors to Biden, they'd be wise to consider & promote Kelly.
He's still a blank sheet who could potentially appeal to voters of both parties, ...if promoted rationally.

He's an extremely solid senator, great candidate and upstanding person. Son of two cops. Decorated combat-tested Naval aviator. Astronaut. Seems to be moderate to center-right.

Would you vote for him over DeSantis or Trump?

Yes -- happily, & FTR -- I've never voted for Trump & never will.

Dem's aren't the brightest in who they let ascend the throne most years, so you probably won't get your chance unfortunately. I'd like to be proud of my president someday again...

When was that last the case for you?

Sadly, George HW (Senior) Bush might’ve been the best in my lifetime. I was a single digit aged for Reagan but time hasn’t been his friend and probably fairly though it seems like there’s some piling on with respect to his legacy. In the last 50-75yrs there’s been enough volatility over any stretch where if you’re there 8yrs at the top it’s hard to avoid any issues yet I’m not going to sh*t on three generations of our country when I look around the globe and there’s no other dirty shirt I’d put on instead.

I didn't vote for him, but I had no issue in being "proud of my president" with Obama. I'm pretty proud of Biden's resilience, and particularly his leadership abroad. Wish he was smarter and younger, but among world leaders of today, he projects pretty darn well. I'd have been proud of a McCain or Romney as President, I'm sure. I wanted better from W, and was definitely 'proud' in the immediate aftermath of 9-11. But yes, HW.

Of course, pretty much all of the Presidents in my lifetime, even Nixon, and Johnson's fiasco in Vietnam, compare well to the Trump lunacy.

This hagiography of McCain fails to take into account what nearly everyone who examines Presidents and party nominees fail to take into account and that is: their first decision is their most important decision, the choice of Vice President. Sarah Palin was one of the worst VP candidates of all time, equal or worse than Bush Sr's. selection of Dan Quayle. When any leader selects such an awful running mate, that tells you all you need to know about that leader. McCain would have been a dreadful POTUS. It's unlikely he could have risen above selecting Palin short of firing her, which I doubt he would have done.

As to others, Reagan's selection of Bush Sr. proved that Reagan was a great leader (at least in 1980...by 1988, he was not there anymore): Bush Sr brought necessary international gravitas that Reagan did not have and would have filled in capably as POTUS if necessary. And yet, Bush Sr proved ultimately a weak leader at the top, unlike his own boss Reagan, by selecting Quayle, a guy who clearly was unfit for the role.

Clinton's selection of Gore is passable, in spite of Gore's bizarre personal quirks and weak-kneed leftist tendencies. Obama's selection of Biden was good. Mondale's selection of Ferraro was okay. Ford's selection of Rocky was fine. Dukasis' selection of Bentson was fine. Romney's choice of Ryan was good.

[NattyBohChamps04]

'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.


The only thing moderate about Kelly is he once admitted to a journalist that the border was overrun. Then he voted to defund DHS Customs.

Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.

Yup, pretty moderate to center right. Has served his country time and time again and puts America first.

Here's the fracking bill. LMAO if you think that's voting to ban fracking. He's pushed for additional Gulf of Mexico oil production. Voting against a pipeline that ships private oil from Canada to the gulf of Mexico to be shipped out of the country is a conservative position. He's said he doesn't favor the Green New Deal.

When you're a far right hammer, everything looks like a left wing nail. Good job parroting the NRSC I guess?

[a fan]

'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.

Those are all moderate positions.

Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.

You're starting to troll again.....turn it down , or the deal's off.

Infrastructure. That was America first. So was the Chips act. What was the last pro-America bill...as in: this helps the working class...that the R's have passed?

[Seacoaster(1)]

'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.


The only thing moderate about Kelly is he once admitted to a journalist that the border was overrun. Then he voted to defund DHS Customs.

Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.

Yup, pretty moderate to center right. Has served his country time and time again and puts America first.

Here's the fracking bill. LMAO if you think that's voting to ban fracking. He's pushed for additional Gulf of Mexico oil production. Voting against a pipeline that ships private oil from Canada to the gulf of Mexico to be shipped out of the country is a conservative position. He's said he doesn't favor the Green New Deal.

When you're a far right hammer, everything looks like a left wing nail. Good job parroting the NRSC I guess?

And the League of Conservation Voters is hardly a "Green New Deal group," whatever the f*ck that is supposed to mean. My mother, rest her soul, was a member for decades. She just wanted open lands and green space to be preserved. The LCV is 50 years old, and its board of trustees is hardly a safe space for fire-breathing green energy only types.

[old salt]

I'm sure you're not a Liz Cheney fan either.

I'll vote for Liz if she wins the GOP nomination.

Aren't you a GOP primary voter???

Yes. I don't know if Liz would be my first choice, even if she runs. I'd have to see who the other candidates are.
The only thing I'm sure of is that I will never vote for Trump. I never have.

Would it be fair to assume that Liz's generally internationalist foreign policy posture would be an issue, versus someone with closer to an isolationist view? Or is that overstating?

I'm pretty sure she'd have the cojones to make tough decisions, while bringing western leaders with her.

Overstating. It would depend on the opponent(s) & their foreign policy tendencies & positions. You'd be hard pressed to find a more hawkish interventionist admin than one which features Victoria Nuland is a position to influence policy & decisions.

[Kismet]

I'm sure you're not a Liz Cheney fan either.

I'll vote for Liz if she wins the GOP nomination.

Aren't you a GOP primary voter???

Yes. I don't know if Liz would be my first choice, even if she runs. I'd have to see who the other candidates are.
The only thing I'm sure of is that I will never vote for Trump. I never have.

Would it be fair to assume that Liz's generally internationalist foreign policy posture would be an issue, versus someone with closer to an isolationist view? Or is that overstating?

I'm pretty sure she'd have the cojones to make tough decisions, while bringing western leaders with her.

Overstating. It would depend on the opponent(s) & their foreign policy tendencies & positions. You'd be hard pressed to find a more hawkish interventionist admin than one which features Victoria Nuland is a position to influence policy & decisions.

Liz Cheney is as much a Neocon interventionist as Nuland (and her husband Robert Kagan) not to mention her father, so how does she get your support While you routinely denigrate the rest of them.

[old salt]

'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.


The only thing moderate about Kelly is he once admitted to a journalist that the border was overrun. Then he voted to defund DHS Customs.

Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.

Yup, pretty moderate to center right. Has served his country time and time again and puts America first.

Here's the fracking bill. LMAO if you think that's voting to ban fracking. He's pushed for additional Gulf of Mexico oil production. Voting against a pipeline that ships private oil from Canada to the gulf of Mexico to be shipped out of the country is a conservative position. He's said he doesn't favor the Green New Deal.

When you're a far right hammer, everything looks like a left wing nail. Good job parroting the NRSC I guess?

Keystone would also have moved Bakken oil from the upper mid-west US to US refineries, much Canadian crude would be refined in US Gulf refineries, & it would free up rail capacity in the US & Canada for ag products.

[old salt]

I'm sure you're not a Liz Cheney fan either.

I'll vote for Liz if she wins the GOP nomination.

Aren't you a GOP primary voter???

Yes. I don't know if Liz would be my first choice, even if she runs. I'd have to see who the other candidates are.
The only thing I'm sure of is that I will never vote for Trump. I never have.

Would it be fair to assume that Liz's generally internationalist foreign policy posture would be an issue, versus someone with closer to an isolationist view? Or is that overstating?

I'm pretty sure she'd have the cojones to make tough decisions, while bringing western leaders with her.

Overstating. It would depend on the opponent(s) & their foreign policy tendencies & positions. You'd be hard pressed to find a more hawkish interventionist admin than one which features Victoria Nuland is a position to influence policy & decisions.

Liz Cheney is as much a Neocon interventionist as Nuland (and her husband Robert Kagan) not to mention her father, so how does she get your support While you routinely denigrate the rest of them.

I'm not praising Liz. It's a binary choice. It depends on the other choice(s). She's not my first choice, but I'd vote for her over Biden or any other admin which included Nuland, with her history of fomenting regime change in the former Soviet space. Liz wasn't in Maidan handing out sandwiches & undermining the EU's efforts to moderate. It's not a decision based solely on foreign policy. Her chances of getting the (R) nom are near zero. If Liz runs as an independent, she will do it as a spoiler, just to defeat the (R) candidate & ensure a (D) win.

[a fan]

'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.


The only thing moderate about Kelly is he once admitted to a journalist that the border was overrun. Then he voted to defund DHS Customs.

Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.

Yup, pretty moderate to center right. Has served his country time and time again and puts America first.

Here's the fracking bill. LMAO if you think that's voting to ban fracking. He's pushed for additional Gulf of Mexico oil production. Voting against a pipeline that ships private oil from Canada to the gulf of Mexico to be shipped out of the country is a conservative position. He's said he doesn't favor the Green New Deal.

When you're a far right hammer, everything looks like a left wing nail. Good job parroting the NRSC I guess?

Keystone would also have moved Bakken oil from the upper mid-west US to US refineries, much Canadian crude would be refined in US Gulf refineries, & it would free up rail capacity in the US & Canada for ag products.

Poor management by Keystone....run it next to the existing pipeline, where right of way is already there. Plan for expansion.

That thing would be up and running this very day.

That said, I agree it's silly that it's not approved.....but I don't get exactly what I want at my business, either....regulations prevent that.

[elonmuskrockefeller]

'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.


The only thing moderate about Kelly is he once admitted to a journalist that the border was overrun. Then he voted to defund DHS Customs.

Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.

Yup, pretty moderate to center right. Has served his country time and time again and puts America first.

Here's the fracking bill. LMAO if you think that's voting to ban fracking. He's pushed for additional Gulf of Mexico oil production. Voting against a pipeline that ships private oil from Canada to the gulf of Mexico to be shipped out of the country is a conservative position. He's said he doesn't favor the Green New Deal.

When you're a far right hammer, everything looks like a left wing nail. Good job parroting the NRSC I guess?

Keystone would also have moved Bakken oil from the upper mid-west US to US refineries, much Canadian crude would be refined in US Gulf refineries, & it would free up rail capacity in the US & Canada for ag products.

Poor management by Keystone....run it next to the existing pipeline, where right of way is already there. Plan for expansion.

That thing would be up and running this very day.

That said, I agree it's silly that it's not approved.....but I don't get exactly what I want at my business, either....regulations prevent that.

a fan, I mean this seriously, but what are you prevented from doing at your company due to regulatory fiat that you would otherwise like to do?

If you're in any food or beverage business, generally you run the business holier than thou, presuming you wish to remain in business. That's especially true nowadays with Yelp, Google Reviews, and such, where every naysayer customer and employee wants to put you on blast for any real or perceived wrong you might commit (customers so they can get comped a freebie, or have nothing else to do but post negative reviews; employees because they hate their pay and therefore the boss). I can't imaging anything that you want to do that you are prevented from doing.

Also, your analogy of Keystone to you is not really fair; you are open for business, Keystone wasn't even allowed to start.

[MDlaxfan76]

'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.


The only thing moderate about Kelly is he once admitted to a journalist that the border was overrun. Then he voted to defund DHS Customs.

Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.

Yup, pretty moderate to center right. Has served his country time and time again and puts America first.

Here's the fracking bill. LMAO if you think that's voting to ban fracking. He's pushed for additional Gulf of Mexico oil production. Voting against a pipeline that ships private oil from Canada to the gulf of Mexico to be shipped out of the country is a conservative position. He's said he doesn't favor the Green New Deal.

When you're a far right hammer, everything looks like a left wing nail. Good job parroting the NRSC I guess?

Keystone would also have moved Bakken oil from the upper mid-west US to US refineries, much Canadian crude would be refined in US Gulf refineries, & it would free up rail capacity in the US & Canada for ag products.

Poor management by Keystone....run it next to the existing pipeline, where right of way is already there. Plan for expansion.

That thing would be up and running this very day.

That said, I agree it's silly that it's not approved.....but I don't get exactly what I want at my business, either....regulations prevent that.

a fan, I mean this seriously, but what are you prevented from doing at your company due to regulatory fiat that you would otherwise like to do?

If you're in any food or beverage business, generally you run the business holier than thou, presuming you wish to remain in business. That's especially true nowadays with Yelp, Google Reviews, and such, where every naysayer customer and employee wants to put you on blast for any real or perceived wrong you might commit (customers so they can get comped a freebie, or have nothing else to do but post negative reviews; employees because they hate their pay and therefore the boss). I can't imaging anything that you want to do that you are prevented from doing.

Also, your analogy of Keystone to you is not really fair; you are open for business, Keystone wasn't even allowed to start.

He's explained this to you numerous times before Petey, yet you keep pretending you don't understand.

Re "Keystone", the company is very much in business. TC Energy runs more than 57,000 miles of pipeline, transporting about 25% of North American natural gas. The proposed pipeline is akin to adding another production facility in a fan's business in a particular location. Can't do that in that location (wrong zoning) but can do it elsewhere, eg expand an existing facility.

[dislaxxic]

#TrumpIsDone

Viral

..

[a fan]

a fan, I mean this seriously, but what are you prevented from doing at your company due to regulatory fiat that you would otherwise like to do?

Oh, about 1,000 things.

But I'll keep it simple, and list one.....I'd love to be able to do what wineries get to do: ship direct to consumer (DTC).

I have a $250 whiskey with bottomless demand if I can make it easy for those few whiskeyfans who want it to actually get it.

Federal law prevents me from selling that DTC, cutting out two layers of middlemen, making it so that I keep 100% of the sale (or drop the price), instead of just (keep the math simple) 33% of the sale price.

That's just one. Costs me MILLIONS of dollars per year.

[elonmuskrockefeller]

a fan, I mean this seriously, but what are you prevented from doing at your company due to regulatory fiat that you would otherwise like to do?

Oh, about 1,000 things.

But I'll keep it simple, and list one.....I'd love to be able to do what wineries get to do: ship direct to consumer (DTC).

I have a $250 whiskey with bottomless demand if I can make it easy for those few whiskeyfans who want it to actually get it.

Federal law prevents me from selling that DTC, cutting out two layers of middlemen, making it so that I keep 100% of the sale (or drop the price), instead of just (keep the math simple) 33% of the sale price.

That's just one. Costs me MILLIONS of dollars per year.

Well I am in favor of you shipping DTC, so there's that.

[a fan]

a fan, I mean this seriously, but what are you prevented from doing at your company due to regulatory fiat that you would otherwise like to do?

Oh, about 1,000 things.

But I'll keep it simple, and list one.....I'd love to be able to do what wineries get to do: ship direct to consumer (DTC).

I have a $250 whiskey with bottomless demand if I can make it easy for those few whiskeyfans who want it to actually get it.

Federal law prevents me from selling that DTC, cutting out two layers of middlemen, making it so that I keep 100% of the sale (or drop the price), instead of just (keep the math simple) 33% of the sale price.

That's just one. Costs me MILLIONS of dollars per year.

Well I am in favor of you shipping DTC, so there's that.

No, you're not. You're in favor of blindly installing Republicans who you swear will solve problems, yet you can't tell any of us how. These Republican run States? They're all MORE restrictive of my free market, not less. And it all stems from good ol' boy corruption. And you don't care, because everyone here can see you're on the receiving end of this kind of governance....it lines your pockets.

What will DeSantis do? You can't tell us. You just think he's awesome. All that tells me is, you want the status quo, except some fella with a little R by his name will be in charge of some stuff, instead of a little D.

I could literally randomly vote for my politicians, and wind up with the same outcome, Pete. You don't seem to understand.....much.

[elonmuskrockefeller]

a fan, I mean this seriously, but what are you prevented from doing at your company due to regulatory fiat that you would otherwise like to do?

Oh, about 1,000 things.

But I'll keep it simple, and list one.....I'd love to be able to do what wineries get to do: ship direct to consumer (DTC).

I have a $250 whiskey with bottomless demand if I can make it easy for those few whiskeyfans who want it to actually get it.

Federal law prevents me from selling that DTC, cutting out two layers of middlemen, making it so that I keep 100% of the sale (or drop the price), instead of just (keep the math simple) 33% of the sale price.

That's just one. Costs me MILLIONS of dollars per year.

Well I am in favor of you shipping DTC, so there's that.

No, you're not. You're in favor of blindly installing Republicans who you swear will solve problems, yet you can't tell any of us how. These Republican run States? They're all MORE restrictive of my free market, not less. And it all stems from good ol' boy corruption. And you don't care, because everyone here can see you're on the receiving end of this kind of governance....it lines your pockets.

What will DeSantis do? You can't tell us. You just think he's awesome. All that tells me is, you want the status quo, except some fella with a little R by his name will be in charge of some stuff, instead of a little D.

I could literally randomly vote for my politicians, and wind up with the same outcome, Pete. You don't seem to understand.....much.

So I guess for starters, my primary issues are family, then crime, then economy. They all tend to interplay with each other as you know. I am not completely sold on my own party's representatives, so you don't need to worry about me defending them.

Also, one reason I like Desantis so much is he has a great family. Similar to how I felt about Obama.

[a fan]

So I guess for starters, my primary issues are family, then crime, then economy.

That's not what I'm asking, for the 100th time.....

What is DeSantis' plan, Pete? You don't know. Pretty obvious that you don't care.

[elonmuskrockefeller]

So I guess for starters, my primary issues are family, then crime, then economy.

That's not what I'm asking, for the 100th time.....

What is DeSantis' plan, Pete? You don't know. Pretty obvious that you don't care.

I have no idea what his national plan is. He's a governor of a state, not running for POTUS (yet). No personal income taxes, a very good and attractive state regulatory apparatus that attracts business every day, and a state government that constantly rates high for constituent services.

Is it that critical that Desantis have a national plan now, as governor, for the entire United States, rather than simply be an effective executive as he's paid to be (and extraordinarily competently at that)?

I know one thing: the dude knows how to run a fair and free election, with nearly every vote counted the same night as the vote.

[a fan]

I have no idea what his national plan is.

Oh, I know, Pete.

He's a governor of a state, not running for POTUS (yet). No personal income taxes, a very good and attractive state regulatory apparatus that attracts business every day, and a state government that constantly rates high for constituent services.

Boy, you sure do know a lot about the State of Florida and Ron DeSantis for a guy who has forgotten that he claims to live in New York, yet mysteriously doesn't know how taxes work in New York.

As for DeSantis...he had NOTHING to do with anything you just listed. He's been in office since 2019....all that stuff was already there when he arrived.

The ACTUAL reason you like him is he lines your pockets, and you think he "stick it to the libs", and you can't get enough of that. Because that's what you try and do here, even thought it's clear that most of us are to the right of you on a whole range of issues.

Is it that critical that Desantis have a national plan now, as governor, for the entire United States, rather than simply be an effective executive as he's paid to be (and extraordinarily competently at that)?

Nope. It's critical that you understand that you don't care what he'll do, and he's had your vote for years now. Like most 2022 Republicans, you're not actual conservatives, and you don't actually care about policy, yet pretend that you do.

[elonmuskrockefeller]

I have no idea what his national plan is.

Oh, I know, Pete.

He's a governor of a state, not running for POTUS (yet). No personal income taxes, a very good and attractive state regulatory apparatus that attracts business every day, and a state government that constantly rates high for constituent services.

Boy, you sure do know a lot about the State of Florida and Ron DeSantis for a guy who has forgotten that he claims to live in New York, yet mysteriously doesn't know how taxes work in New York.

As for DeSantis...he had NOTHING to do with anything you just listed. He's been in office since 2019....all that stuff was already there when he arrived.

The ACTUAL reason you like him is he lines your pockets, and you think he "stick it to the libs", and you can't get enough of that. Because that's what you try and do here, even thought it's clear that most of us are to the right of you on a whole range of issues.

Is it that critical that Desantis have a national plan now, as governor, for the entire United States, rather than simply be an effective executive as he's paid to be (and extraordinarily competently at that)?

Nope. It's critical that you understand that you don't care what he'll do, and he's had your vote for years now. Like most 2022 Republicans, you're not actual conservatives, and you don't actually care about policy, yet pretend that you do.

Everything you just wrote is incorrect. That's an accomplishment, I'll give you that. Not one correct observation nor claim. Congrats?

Let me just say, I do not care if Desantis or anyone 'sticks it to the libs'; the libs stick themselves enough with no outside assistance.

So, what is his national policy? I've never heard him once give a speech on national policy; sounds like you are the one we should question where you're living, assuming you're the only person who knows Desantis' national policies?