VIRGINIA Lacrosse

[Homer]

Have to agree with Doc—I don't think Petro is in the market for another goalie transfer after the Logan debacle. Would be shocked if he goes to Hopkins..

Actually he is not going to Hopkins because the tuition is too high, Ron Daniels refuses to meet with him personally, and nobody wants to be in Baltimore now since Flacco got traded.

I thought we'd established that.

[HopFan16]

Have to agree with Doc—I don't think Petro is in the market for another goalie transfer after the Logan debacle. Would be shocked if he goes to Hopkins..

For what it's worth, when Burkinshaw committed in 2015 he said the other schools he was considering were Princeton, Brown, Providence, and Richmond.

http://www.laxlessons.com/2015/07/21/pa ... urkinshaw/

I have zero idea about either side of this equation, Petro or the player, but suggesting that there was a "debacle" due to bringing in a proven Big 10 performer as a grad student, when you clearly didn't have depth at the position on the roster, and that not working out as hoped, would stop you from bringing in a 3-year potential performer as a transfer...I don't agree

I would think Petro would be eager to pick up Burkinshaw if he had a chance. But that doesn't mean the kid would be eager.

From that list, sounds like the kid (or his parents) thought he had enough academic #'s to be able to get in the door at an Ivy, but also had some back-ups.

Sort of an interesting range though!

What I find perplexing is that, despite the present frustration, what happens the rest of the way this season, much less the next 3 years, has a ton of variability. If Rode can't get above 50% with regularity, and you're working your tail off in practice, and are actually better, eventually that's going to work out just fine. And injuries can be a factor too!

No one disagreed with the intent of the move—we all thought it was a good idea at the time. But the management of the situation, rotating the two goalies in and out and in and out (not totally unlike what UVA has done) did neither guy any service, and it all culminated in the transfer being ineligible to even play in the playoffs—not the reason Hop lost that game by any stretch but I can't imagine the fallout if it had been. It was just a bad experience all around. Petro was unusually candid afterward, pretty much admitting the whole thing was a mistake. I doubt he is eager to try again. That's not at all to say that he would just ignore Burkinshaw's call if it came—he'd be stupid to do so—but I just think there will be several other top programs more ready and willing to test the waters. Not to mention Hopkins recently hasn't had many transfers at ANY position.

My guess is Burkinshaw will have a lot more options this time around than when he did when he first committed.

[10stone5]

Have to agree with Doc—I don't think Petro is in the market for another goalie transfer after the Logan debacle. Would be shocked if he goes to Hopkins..

Actually he is not going to Hopkins because the tuition is too high, Ron Daniels refuses to meet with him personally, and nobody wants to be in Baltimore now since Flacco got traded.
I thought we'd established that.

Don’t forget the Zinn angle, either

[houndace1]

Renault, perhaps you know something we don't, but that would be a surefire way to upset a cohesive team (Yale). The kid starting now for Yale is darn good, and as someone said, has a national 'ship under his belt, and is like Rode, a sophomore. I further assume he is well liked by his mates and coaches.

We don't know any of the variables here outside what the posters have mentioned, but if I were in his shoes, and now knowing some things this morning I did not know last night, based on quality of school/school culture/coach/availability, I guess I'd be looking most tightly at Duke or Loyola, with Towson a close third. I think he'd be starting on a great team, with a great coach, at schools which have really good vibes (notwithstanding the Hoos' incredible basketball championship last night!), with opportunities to win national championships.

Bear in mind, Burkinshaw could have specific reasons to choose a school not even considered; as a possibility, this kid was a remarkable hockey player in high school as well. Maybe he'd go to a Providence, Yale, Harvard, or Michigan, and keep his options open?

Well, enough on that. If Danowski, Toomey, and Nadelen aren't on this already, they will be.

Not taking anything away from Starr, but he has a 47% avg. That's not enough to be anointed starter if another guy arrives on campus who is better.

This is the challenge for goalies and FOGO's, but especially goalies...one guy plays, the rest sit and wait. But if a guy is better, teams expect the better guy to play.

"better" is not just about saves % though. Nor clearing etc.
Leadership matters. Do you play big when it's all on the line, when the heat is the hottest?

I don't see Loyola or Towson, from UVA, but Duke sure.

and why not Loyola from UVA? Loyola has gotten some UVA players before, we've taken transfers from other ACC schools like UNC and Duke. Heck Loyola has two original UVA players/commits in Pridemore and Millhouse.

[houndace1]

Renault, perhaps you know something we don't, but that would be a surefire way to upset a cohesive team (Yale). The kid starting now for Yale is darn good, and as someone said, has a national 'ship under his belt, and is like Rode, a sophomore. I further assume he is well liked by his mates and coaches.

We don't know any of the variables here outside what the posters have mentioned, but if I were in his shoes, and now knowing some things this morning I did not know last night, based on quality of school/school culture/coach/availability, I guess I'd be looking most tightly at Duke or Loyola, with Towson a close third. I think he'd be starting on a great team, with a great coach, at schools which have really good vibes (notwithstanding the Hoos' incredible basketball championship last night!), with opportunities to win national championships.

Bear in mind, Burkinshaw could have specific reasons to choose a school not even considered; as a possibility, this kid was a remarkable hockey player in high school as well. Maybe he'd go to a Providence, Yale, Harvard, or Michigan, and keep his options open?

Well, enough on that. If Danowski, Toomey, and Nadelen aren't on this already, they will be.

Not taking anything away from Starr, but he has a 47% avg. That's not enough to be anointed starter if another guy arrives on campus who is better.

This is the challenge for goalies and FOGO's, but especially goalies...one guy plays, the rest sit and wait. But if a guy is better, teams expect the better guy to play.

"better" is not just about saves % though. Nor clearing etc.
Leadership matters. Do you play big when it's all on the line, when the heat is the hottest?

I don't see Loyola or Towson, from UVA, but Duke sure.

I understand your thought, but I think that's old-world thinking (and no offense to anyone's age lol).

Notwithstanding the recent pay-to-pay craziness of college admissions, college athletes these days can get an equal education anywhere provided they put the work in...online/internships/etc. Plus, many schools now have a great post-university networking capacity that previously only a Harvard-type college afforded. In fact, I'd argue that today, the Ivy networks pale in comparison to smaller tighter schools like Colgate, Loyola, or Lehigh, where alum truly care about their fellow grads and go out of their way to support recent grads in their first career choices (this, spoken from a guy whose brother attended Harvard, though yours truly did not). I know a ton of Ivy grads who won't even support their schools any longer owing to perceived liberal orthodoxy; the atmosphere of content perfection is not what it once was at those schools.

Duke isn't far removed from that allegation, imo.

Loyola oth has one of the best campus cultures around especially if you treat your Catholic faith with some seriousness, with (again, IMO) one of the best venues and fan support for lacrosse. In a kid's case like Burkinshaw, the fact that Toomey seems to mine the Connecticut schools (Lindley, Bailey, Swindell, etc...) wouldn't hurt if Burkinshaw looked their way.

Anyway, I do not know anything about this particular situation...this kid is an incredible talent and I hope he makes the decision that is best for him, not me.

I second all of this

[bearlaxfan]

Have to agree with Doc—I don't think Petro is in the market for another goalie transfer after the Logan debacle. Would be shocked if he goes to Hopkins..

For what it's worth, when Burkinshaw committed in 2015 he said the other schools he was considering were Princeton, Brown, Providence, and Richmond.

http://www.laxlessons.com/2015/07/21/pa ... urkinshaw/

2015 Lars was at Brown, so that makes East Side less likely, but PC graduates a senior Tewey-watch goalie (IIRC). Princeton = Big 3. Richmond? IDK

[Peter Brown]

I quite agree, if you work hard, you can get a great education at lots and lots of schools. Life is not defined by the status of the name on the diploma! But let's not kid ourselves, either. There's a reason why UVA takes pride in its being regularly in the Top 3 nationally of public universities.

Duke seems like a more lateral move educationally, arguably even a move up. Loyola not. Towson (another school I support and coach I like!) definitely not.

Rankings unfortunately don't take into account the one and only variable that matters...the fit. I don't particularly care if a kid goes to an Ivy or Oswego State...if it wasn't a good fit, the decision was bad and it will show. If the fit was good, he'll crush college; there are as many 'Harvard' burnouts in the world as there are California San Luis Obispo burnouts. I stopped caring where people went to college once I understood this fundamental concept and we teach our HR folks to ignore the topic of where altogether in interviews (we focus on how a student took advantage of what the schools had to offer while they attended).

(also, ftr: Loyola's post college network is great and getting stronger, not simply in Baltimore...further, the church's affiliation opens up like-minded schools such as Notre Dame/Georgetown/Villanova/etc...)

That all being said, this particular case might have more color than what we think in a vacuum, as you alluded to. We are all in agreement that whatever decision he makes, we hope he chooses the right fit.

[MDlaxfan76]

You guys are quite persuasive about Loyola.
Who knows, could happen.

As a goalie, I'd like playing for Toomey.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Have to agree with Doc—I don't think Petro is in the market for another goalie transfer after the Logan debacle. Would be shocked if he goes to Hopkins..

For what it's worth, when Burkinshaw committed in 2015 he said the other schools he was considering were Princeton, Brown, Providence, and Richmond.

http://www.laxlessons.com/2015/07/21/pa ... urkinshaw/

2015 Lars was at Brown, so that makes East Side less likely, but PC graduates a senior Tewey-watch goalie (IIRC). Princeton = Big 3. Richmond? IDK

Princeton isn't taking a transfer. Loyola is a good call. Don't discount Michigan.

[ctbagataway]

I like the Michigan call, btw. Outgoing goalie (Heidt) is from the same high school. For the people speculating, I would pay zero attention to the schools a sophomore in high school listed. I am sure that his views and options have changed many times over since then.

[molo]

Is the team with DI's longest win streak ready to vanquish its nemesis, or has Duke, who had experienced a rough patch, made the offensive adjustments to return to the elite level? Who wins this weekend--the Public Ivy or the school that looks like the Jersey Ivy?
Longtime Maryland fans no doubt remember JR, aka Red/White, the Terp fan who used to lead cheers with red and white banners that matched the outfit to which he stripped down. Like many Terp fans in that once and future rivalry, he was not too fond of UVA. I remember one game at College Park when he exhorted his fans with a cry something like, "Cmon, they think they're in the Ivy League!" a taunt that stung because it contained more than an element of truth.
Anyway, UVA is on a roll, and Duke has revamped its offense, moving Smith back to his natural position at midfield. Should be a good one.

[HooDat]

This will be a tremendous match-up. The goalie change makes Duke a much better team.

[wahoomurf]

I went to the Chaminade -St.Anthony's game Wednesday.Plenty of talent on that field.Three St.A.s players are on the way to C'ville.One,Parker,next fall and 2 more,Walshe (M) and Naso( FO) in 2020.

St.A's has a sensational sophomore middie Andy McAdorey. Coach Wizzer told me the kid is interested in UVA. Danny Parker is one of S.A.'s captains.Hope Danny can influence that young man to come on down.

[wahoomurf]

"Rocky Point Petey" mad huge strides since fall ball.He's a terrific young man and a consummate gentleman.The LaSallas did a fine job raising him.

And no I am not his father!

Murf, what can you tell us about the recent flip commitment, Bienkowski? Suffolk County player of the year is nothing to sneeze at.

I never heard of Bienkowski.Just as I was not aware of Merle. My bad I guess.I'm going to the WM-West Islip game this week,I'll sniff around and see if I can get some G-2 on the young man.

Blue: Ran into a couple of folks at the WM-WI game.None had seen Bienkowski play. No doubt he's a fine player. He may be a pleasant surprise next year.Wish "stickhead' hadn't disappeared.That guy had encyclopedic knowledge of Suffolk County lacrosse.

If I find out more,I'll post it here and on The Sabre.

[The Orfling]

What a shame Michael Kraus was out today -- he's been playing like a Tewaaraton finalist, and in that big rivalry game against Duke it would have been great for the 'Hoos to have all their stars. (Not to take away from a strong game by the Blue Devils.) I hope Kraus will be back on the field soon.

[laxmaven]

In my opinion he should stay and compete for the job. Pulling this nonsense now when the team needs to count on everyone to achieve their goals is selfish. This is a life lesson both players will likely face at work once their lacrosse careers are over. How you handle this challenge and adversity now will have a huge impact in your life later on when it really matters. I'm sure he knew what he was walking into when he committed that nothing was guaranteed. It never is. Perhaps there are other circumstances we are not aware of, however, this is big time Division 1 lacrosse where all the players are really good and want to play. The kid has the talent to be the starter. I say push the other guy in practice and win the job or else be there to help the team be better in practice and be ready to play in an important game when your number is called, like it was in Princeton. Sorry, but I tend to be old school on this stuff...

I completely agree. Be a team player. Don’t distract the team at this point in the season. Don't you think any coach he approaches will be wary of this? What happens if he doesn’t play at his next school.

Players are leaving because of coaching behavior not playing time.

[renault]

Renault, perhaps you know something we don't, but that would be a surefire way to upset a cohesive team (Yale). The kid starting now for Yale is darn good, and as someone said, has a national 'ship under his belt, and is like Rode, a sophomore. I further assume he is well liked by his mates and coaches.

We don't know any of the variables here outside what the posters have mentioned, but if I were in his shoes, and now knowing some things this morning I did not know last night, based on quality of school/school culture/coach/availability, I guess I'd be looking most tightly at Duke or Loyola, with Towson a close third. I think he'd be starting on a great team, with a great coach, at schools which have really good vibes (notwithstanding the Hoos' incredible basketball championship last night!), with opportunities to win national championships.

Bear in mind, Burkinshaw could have specific reasons to choose a school not even considered; as a possibility, this kid was a remarkable hockey player in high school as well. Maybe he'd go to a Providence, Yale, Harvard, or Michigan, and keep his options open?

Well, enough on that. If Danowski, Toomey, and Nadelen aren't on this already, they will be.

I should have said "but 'he'd" be at Yale" instead of "but he'll be at Yale." I have no inside information here. But if he's got the academic chops, and the Ivy coaches show interest, why not jump at the opportunity?

[reLAX]

Renault, perhaps you know something we don't, but that would be a surefire way to upset a cohesive team (Yale). The kid starting now for Yale is darn good, and as someone said, has a national 'ship under his belt, and is like Rode, a sophomore. I further assume he is well liked by his mates and coaches.

We don't know any of the variables here outside what the posters have mentioned, but if I were in his shoes, and now knowing some things this morning I did not know last night, based on quality of school/school culture/coach/availability, I guess I'd be looking most tightly at Duke or Loyola, with Towson a close third. I think he'd be starting on a great team, with a great coach, at schools which have really good vibes (notwithstanding the Hoos' incredible basketball championship last night!), with opportunities to win national championships.

Bear in mind, Burkinshaw could have specific reasons to choose a school not even considered; as a possibility, this kid was a remarkable hockey player in high school as well. Maybe he'd go to a Providence, Yale, Harvard, or Michigan, and keep his options open?

Well, enough on that. If Danowski, Toomey, and Nadelen aren't on this already, they will be.

I should have said "but 'he'd" be at Yale" instead of "but he'll be at Yale." I have no inside information here. But if he's got the academic chops, and the Ivy coaches show interest, why not jump at the opportunity?

If I were the other 2 goalies on UVA who watched Burkinshaw go In to play today, after announcing his decision to transfer, I’d wonder if team loyalty was even appreciated... that wasn’t fair to them at all.

[The Orfling]

If I were the other 2 goalies on UVA who watched Burkinshaw go In to play today, after announcing his decision to transfer, I’d wonder if team loyalty was even appreciated... that wasn’t fair to them at all.

Burkinshaw got a total of 48 seconds while the starter was serving a penalty. I doubt the other goalies had a problem with that.

[wahoomurf]

If I were the other 2 goalies on UVA who watched Burkinshaw go In to play today, after announcing his decision to transfer, I’d wonder if team loyalty was even appreciated... that wasn’t fair to them at all.

Burkinshaw got a total of 48 seconds while the starter was serving a penalty. I doubt the other goalies had a problem with that.

Why Burkinshaw?Two other goalies on the roster.An uncomfortable if not bizarre decision to say the least.