All Things Russia & Ukraine

[jhu72]

Reuters reporting that Ukraine Grain Corridor to resume operations, Turkey’s Erdogan says.

... was curious how much Ukrainian grain Turkey imports. The answer not much wheat or barley, top 10 importer of corn and biggest importer of soybeans (~50% of Ukrainian production). Seems Turkey is incented to keep the corridor open.

[MDlaxfan76]

Wait a second...are you really claiming that Assad did not use chemical weapons multiple times against Syrian civilians?
So did ISIL, though mostly the Syrian government.

He did not and it's been documented. Unfortunately the pro war powers that be have removed the photos I referred to earlier. In fact the White Helmets who presented fake news photos of "suffering" children (the same ones vacationing in Europe the next week) are a sub group in al-Qaeda.

yes, there was one instance that was questionable, likely didn't happen.

But I didn't ask about that.

I suggest doing some more homework.

[MDlaxfan76]

Reuters reporting that Ukraine Grain Corridor to resume operations, Turkey’s Erdogan says.

Russia is returning to the agreement.

Their bluff was called, everyone knew they were lying as to the rationale for stopping, and it became obvious that the West would enforce it.

[Brooklyn]

yes, there was one instance that was questionable, likely didn't happen.

But I didn't ask about that.

I suggest doing some more homework.

right back at ya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmEh253eY30

[PizzaSnake]

yes, there was one instance that was questionable, likely didn't happen.

But I didn't ask about that.

I suggest doing some more homework.

right back at ya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmEh253eY30

Well, early, cursory analysis of the site you cite is not promising. But I'll keep looking.

[MDlaxfan76]

yes, there was one instance that was questionable, likely didn't happen.

But I didn't ask about that.

I suggest doing some more homework.

right back at ya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmEh253eY30

Well, early, cursory analysis of the site you cite is not promising. But I'll keep looking.

[MDlaxfan76]

yes, there was one instance that was questionable, likely didn't happen.

But I didn't ask about that.

I suggest doing some more homework.

right back at ya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmEh253eY30

Well, early, cursory analysis of the site you cite is not promising. But I'll keep looking.

Brooklyn is nothing if not predictable.

[Brooklyn]

Well, early, cursory analysis of the site you cite is not promising. But I'll keep looking.

Heh, heh. Thanks for keeping an open mind. Here's more: https://mronline.org/2021/11/25/prestig ... errorists/

more: https://www.betterworld.info/politics/m ... se-flag-op

BTW, still looking for Bush's alleged WMD? Give us an update, if you please.

[Brooklyn]

Brooklyn is nothing if not predictable.

Why, fer sure. How's your search for Bush's WMD going along?

[PizzaSnake]

Well, early, cursory analysis of the site you cite is not promising. But I'll keep looking.

Heh, heh. Thanks for keeping an open mind. Here's more: https://mronline.org/2021/11/25/prestig ... errorists/

more: https://www.betterworld.info/politics/m ... se-flag-op

BTW, still looking for Bush's alleged WMD? Give us an update, if you please.

Who said anything about Shrub? "Sufficient unto the day is the evil therein."

Don't employ whataboutism with me, please. It weakens all of your arguments and strains my patience.

You presented an exceptional claim. Those require exceptional evidence. I'm willing to think critically, but I don't suffer fools.

[Brooklyn]

Who said anything about Shrub? "Sufficient unto the day is the evil therein."

Don't employ whataboutism with me, please. It weakens all of your arguments and strains my patience.

You presented an exceptional claim. Those require exceptional evidence. I'm willing to think critically, but I don't suffer fools.

Exceptional evidence - you now have sources from both sides of the political aisle. You're welcome.

[old salt]

Reuters reporting that Ukraine Grain Corridor to resume operations, Turkey’s Erdogan says.

Russia is returning to the agreement.

Their bluff was called, everyone knew they were lying as to the rationale for stopping, and it became obvious that the West would enforce it.

...how would the west enforce it ? It's a voluntary agreement ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russ ... -rcna55184
The Russian Defense Ministry said Russia agreed to continue carrying out its role in the deal after receiving written guarantees from Kyiv that Ukraine would not use the sea corridor for military actions against Moscow, according to a statement by the Russian defense ministry

Russia suspended its participation in the grain deal over the weekend, citing allegations of a Ukrainian drone attack against its Black Sea fleet. The Russian Defense Ministry said Monday that ship traffic from ports in southern Ukraine was halted, calling the movement “unacceptable."

The Defense Ministry said Wednesday that Ukraine had formally committed to using the safe shipping corridors through the Black Sea “exclusively in accordance with the stipulations of the Black Sea initiative,” a reference to the separate U.N. and Turkey-backed agreements signed by Moscow and Kyiv on July 22.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... e-ministry
Putin: We Could Quit Grain Deal Again, but Would Not Block Grain for Turkey
By Reuters, Nov. 2, 2022

(Reuters) -President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday reserved Russia's right to withdraw again from an international agreement allowing Ukraine to export grain via the Black Sea, after ending four days of non-cooperation with the deal.

If Russia did so, however, Putin said it would not impede shipments of grain from Ukraine to Turkey.

Moscow had on Saturday pulled out of the arrangement, brokered by Turkey and the United Nations, saying it could not guarantee the safety of civilian ships crossing the Black Sea because of a drone attack on its fleet there.

Wednesday's U-turn followed a phone call between Putin and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday and consultations between their defence ministers.

In a statement, Russia's defence ministry said that, with the help of the United Nations and NATO-member Turkey, it had obtained sufficient written guarantees from Ukraine that it would not use the secure shipping corridor or its designated Ukrainian ports for strikes against Russia.

Putin affirmed the receipt of those commitments, and said that if Russia withdrew once more because of Ukrainian breaches, it would substitute the entire volume of grain destined for the "poorest countries" for free from its own stocks.

But, in a nod to Turkey's influence, as well as what he called its "neutrality" in Russia's conflict with Ukraine, he added: "In any case, we will not in the future impede deliveries of grain from Ukrainian territory to the Turkish Republic."

'UNEXPECTED TURNAROUND'

Moscow had said on Monday it would be risky and unacceptable for ships to continue sailing through the secure corridor set up under the deal, which had freed up Ukrainian ports and shipping lanes that Russia had previously blockaded.

Despite the Russian move, ships had continued to export Ukrainian grain, and a record volume moved on Monday.

"This is quite an unexpected turnaround," said Andrey Sizov, head of the Russia-focused Sovecon agriculture consultancy.

"We did not bury this deal, but we did not expect Russia's return to it so soon either, as it was not very clear what kind of guarantees Russia could get and how quickly it would happen. But, well, good job Erdogan."

Even after the call with the Turkish leader, the Kremlin had said Moscow would only consider resuming the agreement after a "detailed investigation" of a drone attack on Saturday against its Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port of Sevastopol, which it accused Ukraine of carrying out with support from Britain.

Kyiv has not claimed responsibility for the attack and denies using the humanitarian corridor for military purposes. Britain has denied involvement and accused Russia of trying to divert attention from its military failures in Ukraine.

[MDlaxfan76]

Brooklyn is nothing if not predictable.

Why, fer sure. How's your search for Bush's WMD going along?

Did I say something about WMD in Iraq?
I joined LP long after that...

I will say that Saddam did a heck of PR job pretending he had more capabilities than he had...but are you disputing that he used chemical weapons on civilians in Iraq?

[MDlaxfan76]

Reuters reporting that Ukraine Grain Corridor to resume operations, Turkey’s Erdogan says.

Russia is returning to the agreement.

Their bluff was called, everyone knew they were lying as to the rationale for stopping, and it became obvious that the West would enforce it.

...how would the west enforce it ? It's a voluntary agreement ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russ ... -rcna55184
The Russian Defense Ministry said Russia agreed to continue carrying out its role in the deal after receiving written guarantees from Kyiv that Ukraine would not use the sea corridor for military actions against Moscow, according to a statement by the Russian defense ministry

Russia suspended its participation in the grain deal over the weekend, citing allegations of a Ukrainian drone attack against its Black Sea fleet. The Russian Defense Ministry said Monday that ship traffic from ports in southern Ukraine was halted, calling the movement “unacceptable."

The Defense Ministry said Wednesday that Ukraine had formally committed to using the safe shipping corridors through the Black Sea “exclusively in accordance with the stipulations of the Black Sea initiative,” a reference to the separate U.N. and Turkey-backed agreements signed by Moscow and Kyiv on July 22.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... e-ministry
Putin: We Could Quit Grain Deal Again, but Would Not Block Grain for Turkey
By Reuters, Nov. 2, 2022

(Reuters) -President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday reserved Russia's right to withdraw again from an international agreement allowing Ukraine to export grain via the Black Sea, after ending four days of non-cooperation with the deal.

If Russia did so, however, Putin said it would not impede shipments of grain from Ukraine to Turkey.

Moscow had on Saturday pulled out of the arrangement, brokered by Turkey and the United Nations, saying it could not guarantee the safety of civilian ships crossing the Black Sea because of a drone attack on its fleet there.

Wednesday's U-turn followed a phone call between Putin and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday and consultations between their defence ministers.

In a statement, Russia's defence ministry said that, with the help of the United Nations and NATO-member Turkey, it had obtained sufficient written guarantees from Ukraine that it would not use the secure shipping corridor or its designated Ukrainian ports for strikes against Russia.

Putin affirmed the receipt of those commitments, and said that if Russia withdrew once more because of Ukrainian breaches, it would substitute the entire volume of grain destined for the "poorest countries" for free from its own stocks.

But, in a nod to Turkey's influence, as well as what he called its "neutrality" in Russia's conflict with Ukraine, he added: "In any case, we will not in the future impede deliveries of grain from Ukrainian territory to the Turkish Republic."

'UNEXPECTED TURNAROUND'

Moscow had said on Monday it would be risky and unacceptable for ships to continue sailing through the secure corridor set up under the deal, which had freed up Ukrainian ports and shipping lanes that Russia had previously blockaded.

Despite the Russian move, ships had continued to export Ukrainian grain, and a record volume moved on Monday.

"This is quite an unexpected turnaround," said Andrey Sizov, head of the Russia-focused Sovecon agriculture consultancy.

"We did not bury this deal, but we did not expect Russia's return to it so soon either, as it was not very clear what kind of guarantees Russia could get and how quickly it would happen. But, well, good job Erdogan."

Even after the call with the Turkish leader, the Kremlin had said Moscow would only consider resuming the agreement after a "detailed investigation" of a drone attack on Saturday against its Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port of Sevastopol, which it accused Ukraine of carrying out with support from Britain.

Kyiv has not claimed responsibility for the attack and denies using the humanitarian corridor for military purposes. Britain has denied involvement and accused Russia of trying to divert attention from its military failures in Ukraine.

Enforce the safe corridor.
Putin blinked.
Putin is offering a 'pretext' of Turkey's influence as a face-saver.
That's obvious except to appeasers and apologists.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Reuters reporting that Ukraine Grain Corridor to resume operations, Turkey’s Erdogan says.

Russia is returning to the agreement.

Their bluff was called, everyone knew they were lying as to the rationale for stopping, and it became obvious that the West would enforce it.

...how would the west enforce it ? It's a voluntary agreement ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russ ... -rcna55184
The Russian Defense Ministry said Russia agreed to continue carrying out its role in the deal after receiving written guarantees from Kyiv that Ukraine would not use the sea corridor for military actions against Moscow, according to a statement by the Russian defense ministry

Russia suspended its participation in the grain deal over the weekend, citing allegations of a Ukrainian drone attack against its Black Sea fleet. The Russian Defense Ministry said Monday that ship traffic from ports in southern Ukraine was halted, calling the movement “unacceptable."

The Defense Ministry said Wednesday that Ukraine had formally committed to using the safe shipping corridors through the Black Sea “exclusively in accordance with the stipulations of the Black Sea initiative,” a reference to the separate U.N. and Turkey-backed agreements signed by Moscow and Kyiv on July 22.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... e-ministry
Putin: We Could Quit Grain Deal Again, but Would Not Block Grain for Turkey
By Reuters, Nov. 2, 2022

(Reuters) -President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday reserved Russia's right to withdraw again from an international agreement allowing Ukraine to export grain via the Black Sea, after ending four days of non-cooperation with the deal.

If Russia did so, however, Putin said it would not impede shipments of grain from Ukraine to Turkey.

Moscow had on Saturday pulled out of the arrangement, brokered by Turkey and the United Nations, saying it could not guarantee the safety of civilian ships crossing the Black Sea because of a drone attack on its fleet there.

Wednesday's U-turn followed a phone call between Putin and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday and consultations between their defence ministers.

In a statement, Russia's defence ministry said that, with the help of the United Nations and NATO-member Turkey, it had obtained sufficient written guarantees from Ukraine that it would not use the secure shipping corridor or its designated Ukrainian ports for strikes against Russia.

Putin affirmed the receipt of those commitments, and said that if Russia withdrew once more because of Ukrainian breaches, it would substitute the entire volume of grain destined for the "poorest countries" for free from its own stocks.

But, in a nod to Turkey's influence, as well as what he called its "neutrality" in Russia's conflict with Ukraine, he added: "In any case, we will not in the future impede deliveries of grain from Ukrainian territory to the Turkish Republic."

'UNEXPECTED TURNAROUND'

Moscow had said on Monday it would be risky and unacceptable for ships to continue sailing through the secure corridor set up under the deal, which had freed up Ukrainian ports and shipping lanes that Russia had previously blockaded.

Despite the Russian move, ships had continued to export Ukrainian grain, and a record volume moved on Monday.

"This is quite an unexpected turnaround," said Andrey Sizov, head of the Russia-focused Sovecon agriculture consultancy.

"We did not bury this deal, but we did not expect Russia's return to it so soon either, as it was not very clear what kind of guarantees Russia could get and how quickly it would happen. But, well, good job Erdogan."

Even after the call with the Turkish leader, the Kremlin had said Moscow would only consider resuming the agreement after a "detailed investigation" of a drone attack on Saturday against its Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port of Sevastopol, which it accused Ukraine of carrying out with support from Britain.

Kyiv has not claimed responsibility for the attack and denies using the humanitarian corridor for military purposes. Britain has denied involvement and accused Russia of trying to divert attention from its military failures in Ukraine.

Enforce the safe corridor.
Putin blinked.
Putin is offering a 'pretext' of Turkey's influence as a face-saver.
That's obvious except to appeasers and apologists.

Erdogan is providing cover for Putin.

[old salt]

Reuters reporting that Ukraine Grain Corridor to resume operations, Turkey’s Erdogan says.

Russia is returning to the agreement.

Their bluff was called, everyone knew they were lying as to the rationale for stopping, and it became obvious that the West would enforce it.

...how would the west enforce it ? It's a voluntary agreement ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russ ... -rcna55184
The Russian Defense Ministry said Russia agreed to continue carrying out its role in the deal after receiving written guarantees from Kyiv that Ukraine would not use the sea corridor for military actions against Moscow, according to a statement by the Russian defense ministry

Russia suspended its participation in the grain deal over the weekend, citing allegations of a Ukrainian drone attack against its Black Sea fleet. The Russian Defense Ministry said Monday that ship traffic from ports in southern Ukraine was halted, calling the movement “unacceptable."

The Defense Ministry said Wednesday that Ukraine had formally committed to using the safe shipping corridors through the Black Sea “exclusively in accordance with the stipulations of the Black Sea initiative,” a reference to the separate U.N. and Turkey-backed agreements signed by Moscow and Kyiv on July 22.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... e-ministry
Putin: We Could Quit Grain Deal Again, but Would Not Block Grain for Turkey
By Reuters, Nov. 2, 2022

(Reuters) -President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday reserved Russia's right to withdraw again from an international agreement allowing Ukraine to export grain via the Black Sea, after ending four days of non-cooperation with the deal.

If Russia did so, however, Putin said it would not impede shipments of grain from Ukraine to Turkey.

Moscow had on Saturday pulled out of the arrangement, brokered by Turkey and the United Nations, saying it could not guarantee the safety of civilian ships crossing the Black Sea because of a drone attack on its fleet there.

Wednesday's U-turn followed a phone call between Putin and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday and consultations between their defence ministers.

In a statement, Russia's defence ministry said that, with the help of the United Nations and NATO-member Turkey, it had obtained sufficient written guarantees from Ukraine that it would not use the secure shipping corridor or its designated Ukrainian ports for strikes against Russia.

Putin affirmed the receipt of those commitments, and said that if Russia withdrew once more because of Ukrainian breaches, it would substitute the entire volume of grain destined for the "poorest countries" for free from its own stocks.

But, in a nod to Turkey's influence, as well as what he called its "neutrality" in Russia's conflict with Ukraine, he added: "In any case, we will not in the future impede deliveries of grain from Ukrainian territory to the Turkish Republic."

'UNEXPECTED TURNAROUND'

Moscow had said on Monday it would be risky and unacceptable for ships to continue sailing through the secure corridor set up under the deal, which had freed up Ukrainian ports and shipping lanes that Russia had previously blockaded.

Despite the Russian move, ships had continued to export Ukrainian grain, and a record volume moved on Monday.

"This is quite an unexpected turnaround," said Andrey Sizov, head of the Russia-focused Sovecon agriculture consultancy.

"We did not bury this deal, but we did not expect Russia's return to it so soon either, as it was not very clear what kind of guarantees Russia could get and how quickly it would happen. But, well, good job Erdogan."

Even after the call with the Turkish leader, the Kremlin had said Moscow would only consider resuming the agreement after a "detailed investigation" of a drone attack on Saturday against its Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port of Sevastopol, which it accused Ukraine of carrying out with support from Britain.

Kyiv has not claimed responsibility for the attack and denies using the humanitarian corridor for military purposes. Britain has denied involvement and accused Russia of trying to divert attention from its military failures in Ukraine.

Enforce the safe corridor.
Putin blinked.
Putin is offering a 'pretext' of Turkey's influence as a face-saver.
That's obvious except to appeasers and apologists.

Who can "enforce" the safe corridor & how ?

https://politicstoday.org/the-montreux- ... raine-war/

https://theconversation.com/what-the-mo ... war-178136

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedi ... outhbound).

[MDlaxfan76]

Yes, had NATO decided, or for that matter the US had decided with most of NATO's support, Turkey would have needed to acquiesce...in order to feed the starving...

Turkey decided they preferred the solution of Putin blinking, as well...

[old salt]

Yes, had NATO decided, or for that matter the US had decided with most of NATO's support, Turkey would have needed to acquiesce...in order to feed the starving...

Turkey decided they preferred the solution of Putin blinking, as well...

Black Sea access is closed to warships of non-Black Sea nations during this state of war.
Neither NATO nor the US can require Turkey to make an exception to the Montreux Convention.
Only the UN Security Council can do so without violating the terms of the convention.
Were Turkey to make an exception in this case, they'd undermine future enforcement of the convention, which is critical to their security.
That's why Erdogan has the power to broker the agreement. He's an asset to the UN & to NATO in that role. We're fortunate that he has a relationship with PutIn sufficient to broker this settlement.
He's keeping the grain moving while preventing a potential naval war in the Black Sea.
The Montreux Convention is doing what it was designed to do.

[Brooklyn]

Brooklyn is nothing if not predictable.

Why, fer sure. How's your search for Bush's WMD going along?

Did I say something about WMD in Iraq?
I joined LP long after that...

I will say that Saddam did a heck of PR job pretending he had more capabilities than he had...but are you disputing that he used chemical weapons on civilians in Iraq?

He used considerably more on Iranians but nobody gave a shttt.

[PizzaSnake]

Yes, had NATO decided, or for that matter the US had decided with most of NATO's support, Turkey would have needed to acquiesce...in order to feed the starving...

Turkey decided they preferred the solution of Putin blinking, as well...

Black Sea access is closed to warships of non-Black Sea nations during this state of war.
Neither NATO nor the US can require Turkey to make an exception to the Montreux Convention.
Only the UN Security Council can do so without violating the terms of the convention.
Were Turkey to make an exception in this case, they'd undermine future enforcement of the convention, which is critical to their security.
That's why Erdogan has the power to broker the agreement. He's an asset to the UN & to NATO in that role. We're fortunate that he has a relationship with PutIn sufficient to broker this settlement.
He's keeping the grain moving while preventing a potential naval war in the Black Sea.
The Montreux Convention is doing what it was designed to do.

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