You don't know that. You have no idea what it would take to destroy Russia's military. Are you advocating that Ukrainian forces invade Russia ?DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:12 pmWhy do you keep proposing something that Putin will never accept?old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:26 pmI've already expressed my opinion on this. No need to start over & rehash.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:16 pmOkay, I'll play. Where's the substance? That Ukraine, after being attacked, should concede some of their territory that was recognized and affirmed by multiple nations, including, but not limited to, the US and Russia? That defending their health and energy infrastructure from ship-launched missiles is provocative? These positions are so risible they beggar belief.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:06 pmyes, that first was a particularly hyperbolic response to your posts on the topic.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:04 pmIn case you missed it, I was responding to this. I'm trying to conduct a substantive discussion.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:57 pmI have as much right to express my opinion as you do to disagree.
yes, you do.
Doesn't make you correct in any way, though.
And, others will indeed call you out.
Who the fcuk are you to judge the actions of a country in an existential struggle? Did you learn this peculiar condescension at Boat U on my nickel? Or did you artive there with it fully formed from your vaunted mid-century educational experience?
The world has changed and passed you by as it does for all humans. Stop resisting and denying. Just makes you look ridiculous.
Curious, I must have missed the enactment of the personal line item veto. What public law was that?
I have serious doubts about the US military after this demonstration of substance from a former service member. OS, didn't you ever learn the law of holes? You know, when you're in a hole, stop digging.
But to level set this substantive discussion:
1. Is the Russian invasion and commission of multiple acts of rape, murder, and property destruction acceptable to you?
2. What limits are there on Ukraine in defending its territory and people?
3. What gives the US (and its citizens) a "vote" in any of this?
I'm arguing based on the way things are, not how we wished they were.
Russia's playing by their rules, not ours. Right or wrong (from our perspective) will have limited influence on the outcome.
imho, I believe that prolonging this war is not worth the further death & destruction it will bring.
Ukraine's survival & independence is assured. We should push for a cease fire, frozen conflict & negotiated settlement,
rather than an open ended commitment to finance this war with a US blank check.
Putin will not stop this war until Russia is militarily and economically castrated and Putin has no choice but to end it.
That’s why this war must continue until it is Putin who is forced to sue for peace.
It is one of many tragedies of this cruel and inhumane war that Russia is inflicting on Ukraine … the only path to peace is the destruction of Russia’s military.
The sooner we get that task done, the sooner this deplorable war comes to an end.
DocBarrister
That's what it would take to achieve your objective.
We need to offer Putin a face saving off ramp that ends the fighting asap & keeps the energy & grain flowing, before winter impacts them all.
If Ukraine does not approve, they can continue without US aid. NATO won't continue adequate military support if the US doesn't. This is what France & Germany really want anyway. The other's will fall in line. Prolonging this war makes it a war of choice by the US.