MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:50 am
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:45 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:36 am
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:32 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:18 am
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:16 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am
Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.
FTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.
Leaving out Bremer...and will..Kirkpatrick...even Moynihan, all of whom were described as neoconservatives.
With the dinner parties controlling the course of history...
trope.
If not intended, incredibly easy to say, 'oops, my mistake, not intended, sorry for any offense'...and go back to critiquing the policy positions.
How far do you want to take this ? Add McCain, the Bushes, Cheney's, Wolofowitz, Pearle, Libby... you could fill a stadium.
Again -- I was referring to the founders & how they themselves described the genisis of their movement.
There's nothing dark or sinister there. It's not a trope. It's a key part of our modern political history.
Read any scholarship about the birth of the Neo Conservative movement & it will align with my description & include the names of the founders who I referenced.
It will include those names...and others.
Importantly, others...the trope was the 'dinner parties controlling the course of history'
The movement started way before this group you mention became prominent.
Again, it'd have been super easy to say, 'oops, not my intent, sorry for any offense, I'll try to avoid it in the future"...and go pack to your critique.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
FTR -- I did mention Kirkpatrick (& Bill Bennet) as token gentiles, Moynihan objected to being called a neoconservative.
The Kristol, Podhoretz, & Kagan dinner parties in NYC were legendary, not unlike Kay Graham's, Ben Bradley's & Sally Quinn's in DC.
It's not a trope to acknowledge the part they have played in our political history.
Again, the trope exists.
It's well-known.
If you stumbled into it, unintentionally, as you have repeatedly said now, it should have been easy to simply say, 'oops, I recognize the trope, not my intent, sorry to give offense, I'll try not to offend again'...and then explain what you really meant, including not simply "dinner parties" but "dinner parties and "
controlling the course of history"...
Trope re Jews and their control.
Aligns with trope about an international cabal of such.
Throughline with other tropes about control, and blood libel...
"
token gentiles"???
ADL Questions Jay-Z Over Jewish Lyric in ‘The Story of O.J.’
Rolling StoneJuly 6, 2017 7:43PM EDT
ADL Chastises Jay-Z Over Jewish Lyric in 'The Story of O.J.'
Kevork S. Djansezian/Getty
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The Anti-Defamation League, a leading Jewish organization dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, says they are concerned about the implications of a lyric on Jay-Z‘s new 4:44 song, “The Story of O.J.” On the track, the rapper rhymes, “You wanna know what’s more important than throwin’ away money at a strip club? Credit/ You ever wonder why Jewish people own all the property in America? This how they did it.”
“We do not believe it was Jay-Z’s intent to promote anti-Semitism,” a rep for the ADL tells Rolling Stone. “On the contrary, we know that Jay-Z is someone who has used his celebrity in the past to speak out responsibly and forcefully against the evils of racism and anti-Semitism.
The organization, however, finds the particular lyric problematic. “The lyric does seem to play into deep-seated anti-Semitic stereotypes about Jews and money. The idea that Jews ‘own all the property’ in this country and have used credit to financially get ahead are odious and false. Yet, such notions have lingered in society for decades, and we are concerned that this lyric could feed into preconceived notions about Jews and alleged Jewish ‘control’ of the banks and finance.”
A rep for the rapper did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
The lyric immediately sparked a debate on social media over whether the lyric was anti-Semitic, and if not, whether Jay intended it to be complimentary despite signaling to long-held stereotypes about Jews. Madonna and U2’s manager, Guy Oseary, who is Jewish and was born in Israel, offered his interpretation in an Instagram post that featured a picture of himself with Jay-Z.
Oseary argued that the line taken out of context could be seen as anti-Semitic, though he noted that Jay-Z uses exaggerated stereotypes in both the lyrics and video for “The Story of O.J.” “Jewish people do NOT ‘own all the property in America,'” Oseary said. “Jay knows this. But he’s attempting to use the Jewish people in an exaggerated way to showcase a community of people that are thought to have made wise business decisions. As an example of what is possible and achievable … In my opinion, Jay is giving the Jewish community a compliment. ‘Financial freedom’ he mentions as being his ONLY hope. If you had to pick a community as an example of making wise financial decisions achieving financial freedom who would you choose? I’m not offended by these lyrics.”
Russell Simmons also defended the rapper earlier this week on Twitter, writing, “Mischief makers would like to take Jay’s statements about the culture and practices that exist within some parts of the jewish community (notice I say some). The fact is this culture that promotes good business and financial well-being is and has been a guiding light to the black and specifically the hip-hop community.”
...as does our auto-censor)
