2022 Midterms

[lagerhead]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

College faculty ain’t getting rich. Administration is a different story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/opin ... llege.html

[Typical Lax Dad]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

College faculty ain’t getting rich. Administration is a different story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/opin ... llege.html

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analy ... or-salary/

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... ent-salary

https://qz.com/1152528/college-tuition- ... s-too/amp/

Associate Professors are killing it…

[jhu72]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

... no question there were and are perverse incentives for academics to get behind the bastardization of the system. They however were not and are not to my knowledge the driving force behind the changes. This was market driven. Customers existed / exist for it. Everything market driven idea is not necessarily a good idea.

[Farfromgeneva]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

College faculty ain’t getting rich. Administration is a different story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/opin ... llege.html

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analy ... or-salary/

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... ent-salary

https://qz.com/1152528/college-tuition- ... s-too/amp/

Associate Professors are killing it…

My points were there’d be less actual gigs without subsidized student debt to even get into. Arguably the supply of academics, which may be driven by the sheer number of higher ed institutions to a degree (I have to believe this is an impactful variable - the amount of institutions and potential seats), is depressing those salaries to some extent. If the 15-25% of colleges in the NE fail as expected the demand for academics may decrease but quality of position will be much higher with wealthier and healthier institutions.

And I think there’s some meaningful supplements commonly available to professors outside of salary but effectively provided by the institution.

Adjuncts and associates don’t make much I know. Should they? If we’re talking about taxpayers footing a massive bill potentially for student debtors then the value proposition of a lot of these associates and adjuncts must be pretty darn low.

[Farfromgeneva]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

... no question there were and are perverse incentives for academics to get behind the bastardization of the system. They however were not and are not to my knowledge the driving force behind the changes. This was market driven. Customers existed / exist for it. Everything market driven idea is not necessarily a good idea.

See I see incentive systems as precisely the force behind behavior and outcomes as standard. Maybe that makes me too cynical. But you have to restructure and appropriately aligns incentives whether it’s “market based” or not (if the govt heavily influences incentive systems how “market based is it truly?) or command controlled. And my original point is just that running around blaming the bankers as if rent seeking isn’t abound everywhere and cutting out one participant eliminates rent seeking is absurd and thoughtless by our “leadership” except it’s cash and votes. The spotlight is rarely put on the other folks. It’s always in fiancé people. And yet we keep having problems that supposedly are being solved by going after the bankers. Why come this keeps happening?

[Farfromgeneva]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

... no question there were and are perverse incentives for academics to get behind the bastardization of the system. They however were not and are not to my knowledge the driving force behind the changes. This was market driven. Customers existed / exist for it. Everything market driven idea is not necessarily a good idea.

By the way I agree with you last comment in general but don’t know that it’s fully applicable to the points I was making.

Just like I think politicians have perpetrated a fraud on the public by selling homeownership as the American dream since the 1960s and all thats come since birthed from that.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

College faculty ain’t getting rich. Administration is a different story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/opin ... llege.html

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analy ... or-salary/

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... ent-salary

https://qz.com/1152528/college-tuition- ... s-too/amp/

Associate Professors are killing it…

My points were there’d be less actual gigs without subsidized student debt to even get into. Arguably the supply of academics, which may be driven by the sheer number of higher ed institutions to a degree (I have to believe this is an impactful variable - the amount of institutions and potential seats), is depressing those salaries to some extent. If the 15-25% of colleges in the NE fail as expected the demand for academics may decrease but quality of position will be much higher with wealthier and healthier institutions.

And I think there’s some meaningful supplements commonly available to professors outside of salary but effectively provided by the institution.

Adjuncts and associates don’t make much I know. Should they? If we’re talking about taxpayers footing a massive bill potentially for student debtors then the value proposition of a lot of these associates and adjuncts must be pretty darn low.

I believe most college professors are underpaid. There isn’t a lot of supplemental income opportunities outside of teaching in the summer for most. Some tech or finance guys may do some consulting but most have modest income. I believe the system should be revamped. Too many schools.

[jhu72]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon. --- grants are allowed to fund the portion of your salary prorated to the fraction of your time you spend working on the grant project. This has always been the way it worked. Generally grants pay for fulltime employees who work on the project, like graduate students. The principal investigator generally only works part time on the project, so only a portion of that salary is covered by the grant.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

... no question there were and are perverse incentives for academics to get behind the bastardization of the system. They however were not and are not to my knowledge the driving force behind the changes. This was market driven. Customers existed / exist for it. Everything market driven is not necessarily a good idea.

Bankers weren't responsible for this bastardization, but they of course profited from the increased volume of business. The people who really benefit from this are the college administrations. It has grown their institutions greatly. USNWR has benefited from it greatly and do have some responsibility for creating the market. University presidents as a class are certainly benefiting from the bastardization.

[Farfromgeneva]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

College faculty ain’t getting rich. Administration is a different story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/opin ... llege.html

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analy ... or-salary/

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... ent-salary

https://qz.com/1152528/college-tuition- ... s-too/amp/

Associate Professors are killing it…

My points were there’d be less actual gigs without subsidized student debt to even get into. Arguably the supply of academics, which may be driven by the sheer number of higher ed institutions to a degree (I have to believe this is an impactful variable - the amount of institutions and potential seats), is depressing those salaries to some extent. If the 15-25% of colleges in the NE fail as expected the demand for academics may decrease but quality of position will be much higher with wealthier and healthier institutions.

And I think there’s some meaningful supplements commonly available to professors outside of salary but effectively provided by the institution.

Adjuncts and associates don’t make much I know. Should they? If we’re talking about taxpayers footing a massive bill potentially for student debtors then the value proposition of a lot of these associates and adjuncts must be pretty darn low.

I believe most college professors are underpaid. There isn’t a lot of supplemental income opportunities outside of teaching in the summer for most. Some tech or finance guys may do some consulting but most have modest income. I believe the system should be revamped. Too many schools.

It’s coming.

A buddy, Ron Anderson, who runs Fox (Temple in Philly think 100+ schools under title IV* are gone by 2025.

College enrollment falls for third straight year

Erin Doherty
College enrollment has declined for the third school year in a row, but the drop may be cooling after reaching historic levels during the pandemic, per a report out Thursday by the National Student Clearinghouse.

Why it matters: With each passing school year of declining enrollment, "a path back to pre-pandemic enrollment levels is growing further out of reach," Doug Shapiro, executive director of the nonprofit research center, warned.

"After two straight years of historically large losses, it is particularly troubling that numbers are still falling, especially among freshmen,” Shapiro said in a release.
Driving the news: Total undergraduate and graduate enrollment combined declined 1.1% between fall of 2021 and 2022, leading to a total two-year decline of 3.2% since 2020, per the nonprofit.

Freshmen enrollment declined by 1.5% overall, with numbers dropping in all four-year sectors. Highly selective institutions saw the largest drop in freshmen enrollment, with a 5.6% decline compared to a 10.7% gain in fall 2021.
Historically Black Colleges and Universities and primary online institutions were among the few category of schools to see an enrollment increase.
HBCU's enrollment grew 2.5% this fall and at primarily online institutions, undergraduate enrollment grew by 3.2% from last fall, per the report.
Community colleges saw the smallest declines in enrollment, posting a 0.4% enrollment loss compared to fall 2021.
Between the lines: That's good news for community colleges, as those institutions bore much of the brunt of the pandemic drop-off.

Community college enrollment dropped by 9.5% during the spring of 2021, with a loss of 476,000 students, Axios' Bryan Walsh reports.
State of play: The pandemic accelerated the trend of falling college enrollment, which had been occurring since 2012.

Concerns over student debt and the high cost of higher education are among the reasons that enrollment is on the decline, per the Wall Street Journal.
Go deeper...The next student loan crisis

*Title IV is 4yr colleges and universities that receive a federal penny, there’s thousands now, been boning up on higher ed since working with the lender group starting last April/May.

Here’s the full Title IV list for anyone interested:

https://www.thiscollegelife.com/wp-cont ... ist-5.xlsx

[Farfromgeneva]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon. --- grants are allowed to fund the portion of your salary prorated to the fraction of your time you spend working on the grant project. This has always been the way it worked. Generally grants pay for fulltime employees who work on the project, like graduate students. The principal investigator generally only works part time on the project, so only a portion of that salary is covered by the grant.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

... no question there were and are perverse incentives for academics to get behind the bastardization of the system. They however were not and are not to my knowledge the driving force behind the changes. This was market driven. Customers existed / exist for it. Everything market driven is not necessarily a good idea.

Bankers weren't responsible for this bastardization, but they of course profited from the increased volume of business. The people who really benefit from this are the college administrations. It has grown their institutions greatly. USNWR has benefited from it greatly and do have some responsibility for creating the market. University presidents as a class are certainly benefiting from the bastardization.

Thanks, never wanted to ask how he made the dough as one of the wealthier families in relatively poor overall Binghamton - lives down the street from Newman a developer who has a helicopter ps at his house down the block and developed everything around SUNY binghamton on the highway. Great people, son, one of my closest friends is in middle Mgt for USAid in DC running some LatAm education program, was the one who bailed on Peace Corps early too. Always thought as a kid “damn I need to be a doctor, lawyer or professor” based on the people with money there.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

College faculty ain’t getting rich. Administration is a different story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/opin ... llege.html

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analy ... or-salary/

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... ent-salary

https://qz.com/1152528/college-tuition- ... s-too/amp/

Associate Professors are killing it…

My points were there’d be less actual gigs without subsidized student debt to even get into. Arguably the supply of academics, which may be driven by the sheer number of higher ed institutions to a degree (I have to believe this is an impactful variable - the amount of institutions and potential seats), is depressing those salaries to some extent. If the 15-25% of colleges in the NE fail as expected the demand for academics may decrease but quality of position will be much higher with wealthier and healthier institutions.

And I think there’s some meaningful supplements commonly available to professors outside of salary but effectively provided by the institution.

Adjuncts and associates don’t make much I know. Should they? If we’re talking about taxpayers footing a massive bill potentially for student debtors then the value proposition of a lot of these associates and adjuncts must be pretty darn low.

I believe most college professors are underpaid. There isn’t a lot of supplemental income opportunities outside of teaching in the summer for most. Some tech or finance guys may do some consulting but most have modest income. I believe the system should be revamped. Too many schools.

It’s coming.

A buddy, Ron Anderson, who runs Fox (Temple in Philly think 100+ schools under title IV* are gone by 2025.

College enrollment falls for third straight year

Erin Doherty
College enrollment has declined for the third school year in a row, but the drop may be cooling after reaching historic levels during the pandemic, per a report out Thursday by the National Student Clearinghouse.

Why it matters: With each passing school year of declining enrollment, "a path back to pre-pandemic enrollment levels is growing further out of reach," Doug Shapiro, executive director of the nonprofit research center, warned.

"After two straight years of historically large losses, it is particularly troubling that numbers are still falling, especially among freshmen,” Shapiro said in a release.
Driving the news: Total undergraduate and graduate enrollment combined declined 1.1% between fall of 2021 and 2022, leading to a total two-year decline of 3.2% since 2020, per the nonprofit.

Freshmen enrollment declined by 1.5% overall, with numbers dropping in all four-year sectors. Highly selective institutions saw the largest drop in freshmen enrollment, with a 5.6% decline compared to a 10.7% gain in fall 2021.
Historically Black Colleges and Universities and primary online institutions were among the few category of schools to see an enrollment increase.
HBCU's enrollment grew 2.5% this fall and at primarily online institutions, undergraduate enrollment grew by 3.2% from last fall, per the report.
Community colleges saw the smallest declines in enrollment, posting a 0.4% enrollment loss compared to fall 2021.
Between the lines: That's good news for community colleges, as those institutions bore much of the brunt of the pandemic drop-off.

Community college enrollment dropped by 9.5% during the spring of 2021, with a loss of 476,000 students, Axios' Bryan Walsh reports.
State of play: The pandemic accelerated the trend of falling college enrollment, which had been occurring since 2012.

Concerns over student debt and the high cost of higher education are among the reasons that enrollment is on the decline, per the Wall Street Journal.
Go deeper...The next student loan crisis

*Title IV is 4yr colleges and universities that receive a federal penny, there’s thousands now, been boning up on higher ed since working with the lender group starting last April/May.

Here’s the full Title IV list for anyone interested:

https://www.thiscollegelife.com/wp-cont ... ist-5.xlsx

We have a vertical in the education space and have been watching it.

[Farfromgeneva]

Given that the sheepskin is the ticket to riches, why the need for student loan forgiveness?
I don't think you'd have to travel too far out of your circle to find more than one college grad
not making six figures. Further, six figures is a far cry from what it once was. Looked at the
price of cars lately? Houses, rent, health insurance?

... For those who belong in college, it can be a ticket to riches, for those who don't it is a ticket to bankruptcy in many cases. As a society we have way too many people in college that don't belong anywhere near a traditional college campus. Mommy and daddy are the problem. The bankers and all the middlemen are more than happy to take advantage of the situation. It also negatively impacts the educational mission of colleges. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but it is the truth.

Trade schools are the answer, but they are not good enough for mommy and daddy.

Yeah except you forgot that the educational community benefits more than the bankers from this system. Let’s move off the easy target because you could kill every banker (I’m going down zombieland style if you come after me) because solving the problem means rooting out all the perverse incentives and I see a a** ton (that’s a scientific term) within the higher Ed system. Look at Columbia recently and temples online MBA program in the last few years. The way you describe it is as if they haven’t gladly fed off this system but rather everyone in high ed is victims of this. Maybe not your intent but it’s always the bankers and yet every time they address the issues with the bankers the problem still exists then what?

I don’t know exactly how it works but one of my best friends father ran the graduate psych dept at SUNY Binghamton, was a good person, but somehow made money of the grants he received. Or filtered into his personal living heavily. Got the sense this isn’t uncommon.

All the jobs that maybe shouldn’t exist for mediocre PhDs. The ones who filter into micro issues but aren’t really advancing research just half a**ing teaching and half a**ing publishing.

College faculty ain’t getting rich. Administration is a different story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/opin ... llege.html

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analy ... or-salary/

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/ ... ent-salary

https://qz.com/1152528/college-tuition- ... s-too/amp/

Associate Professors are killing it…

My points were there’d be less actual gigs without subsidized student debt to even get into. Arguably the supply of academics, which may be driven by the sheer number of higher ed institutions to a degree (I have to believe this is an impactful variable - the amount of institutions and potential seats), is depressing those salaries to some extent. If the 15-25% of colleges in the NE fail as expected the demand for academics may decrease but quality of position will be much higher with wealthier and healthier institutions.

And I think there’s some meaningful supplements commonly available to professors outside of salary but effectively provided by the institution.

Adjuncts and associates don’t make much I know. Should they? If we’re talking about taxpayers footing a massive bill potentially for student debtors then the value proposition of a lot of these associates and adjuncts must be pretty darn low.

I believe most college professors are underpaid. There isn’t a lot of supplemental income opportunities outside of teaching in the summer for most. Some tech or finance guys may do some consulting but most have modest income. I believe the system should be revamped. Too many schools.

It’s coming.

A buddy, Ron Anderson, who runs Fox (Temple in Philly think 100+ schools under title IV* are gone by 2025.

College enrollment falls for third straight year

Erin Doherty
College enrollment has declined for the third school year in a row, but the drop may be cooling after reaching historic levels during the pandemic, per a report out Thursday by the National Student Clearinghouse.

Why it matters: With each passing school year of declining enrollment, "a path back to pre-pandemic enrollment levels is growing further out of reach," Doug Shapiro, executive director of the nonprofit research center, warned.

"After two straight years of historically large losses, it is particularly troubling that numbers are still falling, especially among freshmen,” Shapiro said in a release.
Driving the news: Total undergraduate and graduate enrollment combined declined 1.1% between fall of 2021 and 2022, leading to a total two-year decline of 3.2% since 2020, per the nonprofit.

Freshmen enrollment declined by 1.5% overall, with numbers dropping in all four-year sectors. Highly selective institutions saw the largest drop in freshmen enrollment, with a 5.6% decline compared to a 10.7% gain in fall 2021.
Historically Black Colleges and Universities and primary online institutions were among the few category of schools to see an enrollment increase.
HBCU's enrollment grew 2.5% this fall and at primarily online institutions, undergraduate enrollment grew by 3.2% from last fall, per the report.
Community colleges saw the smallest declines in enrollment, posting a 0.4% enrollment loss compared to fall 2021.
Between the lines: That's good news for community colleges, as those institutions bore much of the brunt of the pandemic drop-off.

Community college enrollment dropped by 9.5% during the spring of 2021, with a loss of 476,000 students, Axios' Bryan Walsh reports.
State of play: The pandemic accelerated the trend of falling college enrollment, which had been occurring since 2012.

Concerns over student debt and the high cost of higher education are among the reasons that enrollment is on the decline, per the Wall Street Journal.
Go deeper...The next student loan crisis

*Title IV is 4yr colleges and universities that receive a federal penny, there’s thousands now, been boning up on higher ed since working with the lender group starting last April/May.

Here’s the full Title IV list for anyone interested:

https://www.thiscollegelife.com/wp-cont ... ist-5.xlsx

We have a vertical in the education space and have been watching it.

Yeah you probably should’ve written off that Corinthian debt a few years back…

[Farfromgeneva]

Not because these are reflective of politicians but since it’s been discussed here recently.

Test scores' record plunge

Noah Bressner
Test scores known as the Nation's Report Card, released on Monday, show the largest math declines ever recorded for fourth- and eighth-graders.

Driving the news: Math scores declined for those grades in nearly every state and district between 2019 and 2022, according to the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) results.

During those COVID years, reading scores also fell in most states, according to the Education Department, which released the scores.
Why it matters: COVID and the resulting school closures spared no state or region. The pandemic resulted in historic learning setbacks for America's children, erasing decades of academic progress and widening racial disparities, AP reports.

Between the lines: Reading scores dropped to 1992 levels. Nearly four in 10 eighth-graders failed to grasp basic math concepts.

Not a single state saw a notable improvement in average test scores.
Peggy Carr, commissioner of the National Center for Education Statistics, a branch of the Education Department, told AP: "In NAEP, when we experience a 1- or 2-point decline, we're talking about it as a significant impact on a student's achievement. In math, we experienced an 8-point decline."

Researchers think of a 10-point gain or drop as equivalent to roughly a year of learning.
By the numbers: The average math score for fourth-graders fell five points since 2019 — from 241 to 236, the Education Department said.

Eighth graders dropped eight points in math, from 282 to 274.
In reading, average scores for both grades fell three points — from 220 to 217 for fourth grade, and from 263 to 260 for eighth grade.
What's next: The "devastating" findings "raise significant questions about where the country goes from here," the New York Times reports.

Go deeper: Reading highlights ... Math highlights.

[CU88]

Who is going to cry "foul", as this is so close to the election?

Hugo Lowell@hugolowell

New: Attorney General Merrick Garland, DAG Monaco, FBI Director Wray and NatSec AAG Olsen will host a press conference at 1:30p ET discussing alleged criminal activity by a nation-state actor in the US

10:25 AM · Oct 24, 2022
·

[PizzaSnake]

Not because these are reflective of politicians but since it’s been discussed here recently.

Test scores' record plunge

Noah Bressner
Test scores known as the Nation's Report Card, released on Monday, show the largest math declines ever recorded for fourth- and eighth-graders.

Driving the news: Math scores declined for those grades in nearly every state and district between 2019 and 2022, according to the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) results.

During those COVID years, reading scores also fell in most states, according to the Education Department, which released the scores.
Why it matters: COVID and the resulting school closures spared no state or region. The pandemic resulted in historic learning setbacks for America's children, erasing decades of academic progress and widening racial disparities, AP reports.

Between the lines: Reading scores dropped to 1992 levels. Nearly four in 10 eighth-graders failed to grasp basic math concepts.

Not a single state saw a notable improvement in average test scores.
Peggy Carr, commissioner of the National Center for Education Statistics, a branch of the Education Department, told AP: "In NAEP, when we experience a 1- or 2-point decline, we're talking about it as a significant impact on a student's achievement. In math, we experienced an 8-point decline."

Researchers think of a 10-point gain or drop as equivalent to roughly a year of learning.
By the numbers: The average math score for fourth-graders fell five points since 2019 — from 241 to 236, the Education Department said.

Eighth graders dropped eight points in math, from 282 to 274.
In reading, average scores for both grades fell three points — from 220 to 217 for fourth grade, and from 263 to 260 for eighth grade.
What's next: The "devastating" findings "raise significant questions about where the country goes from here," the New York Times reports.

Go deeper: Reading highlights ... Math highlights.

The “good news” is that all of the homeschoolers and the various “Christian” madrasas will pick up the slack. Well, when they aren’t busy incubating foreign-born basketball phenoms…

Or, maybe the pandemic engendered a realization in these children that the current system is bankrupt has no future, so why bother to prepare to join a system that won’t exist in twenty years? I’ve been having some sobering discussions with my children recently. They know society is headed fir a significant inflection point. My daughters are adamantly opposed to producing any children. My son is indifferent.

And who am I to lie to them: “their lying eyes”…

[DMac]

Taking any odds on whether those teen daughters will change their minds in time?

[PizzaSnake]

Taking any odds on whether those teen daughters will change their minds in time?

What else do you bet on? Cockfights? Dogfights?

[DMac]

Not a gambler, to say nothing of your ridiculous response.
Wouldn't be afraid to make a wager on a teen girl changing
her mind though.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Not because these are reflective of politicians but since it’s been discussed here recently.

Test scores' record plunge

Noah Bressner
Test scores known as the Nation's Report Card, released on Monday, show the largest math declines ever recorded for fourth- and eighth-graders.

Unsurprising. Interesting to compare the drop and various COVID responses to see any correlation. My gut says little to none considering the massive impact of COVID outside of the classroom. I'm sure reporters will be digging through the data. The site is very slow, probably full of people digging.

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/ndecore/xplore/NDE

Quick report on 8th grade math from 2019 to 2021:

National average dropped 8. 282 to 274 = 2.84% drop
Florida dropped 8 points. 279 to 271 = 2.87% drop
New York dropped 6 points. 280 to 274 = 2.14% drop
California dropped 6 points. 276 to 270 = 2.17% drop
Alabama dropped 5 points. 269 to 264 = 1.85% drop

[MDlaxfan76]

Not a gambler, to say nothing of your ridiculous response.
Wouldn't be afraid to make a wager on a teen girl changing
her mind though.

I thought it was a kinda funny response.

But yeah, I wouldn't bet against a kid changing his/her mind later.

But I understand the concern about the future of society...there are definitely some dystopian scenarios, and there will indeed be some inflection points coming...the question will be how we address, adjust, and adapt.

But I'd tend to 'bet' on evolutionary instincts both on a micro level and on the macro level.