All Things Russia & Ukraine

[Farfromgeneva]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

So, now conflict of interest here, eh?

“Those who have worked as military contractors or consultants for the Emiratis include generals who made their mark fighting U.S. wars in the Middle East. Among them: retired Marine Gen. Jim Mattis, who was a military adviser to the UAE before he became defense secretary in the Trump administration, the documents show.”

You lose any moral superiority for your service when you sell out. Period.

[Farfromgeneva]

Never a fan, but Pence deserves an attaboy.

Hard to believe this guy actually held his nose and stayed feet away the stink of Trump..."moral values".

Pence is still a wussy.

Trump basically put a hit on him and Pence is still at least cordial with the guy.

Pence needs to come out and openly condemn and oppose Trump.

When Pence does that, then I will give him his due.

I’m skeptical that day will ever come.

DocBarrister

Even if true I suspect he could handle you. I don’t think he’s waiting for your applause even if you think that might move the planet somehow.

[old salt]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

[MDlaxfan76]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

So, some Ukrainians in power 20+ years ago made the "wrong" decisions by not investing in their military capacities...which, as you note, were Soviet made, dependent upon the empire from which they'd just split...

So, Ukraine doesn't deserve to be independent and free of Russia's yoke because of that "mistake"...got it.

[jhu72]

Biden is meeting with Musk to discuss putting Starlink technology in place to provide communications for the Iranian people currently resisting their government. This could have a knock-on effect in the Ukraine war.

[youthathletics]

That is not the outcome I read from OS's 'statement'. Did not see anywhere where he implied they are underserved b/c of that choice.

[a fan]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

Nope. Had they told everyone in the Montreaux convention to F off, they'd be more than all set. They have nukes, and wouldn't need a single soldier to protect their borders.

They chose a peaceful path, and paid a price for it. They won't make that mistake again.

[Kismet]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

Nope. Had they told everyone in the Montreaux convention to F off, they'd be more than all set. They have nukes, and wouldn't need a single soldier to protect their borders.

They chose a peaceful path, and paid a price for it. They won't make that mistake again.

How ironic that 60 years ago today JFK went public on the Cuban missile crisis.

I think you mean the 1994 Budapest Declaration and it is more complicated that you surmise

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Also ironic that SoS Antony Blinken's father was a signatory for the USA

[a fan]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

Nope. Had they told everyone in the Montreaux convention to F off, they'd be more than all set. They have nukes, and wouldn't need a single soldier to protect their borders.

They chose a peaceful path, and paid a price for it. They won't make that mistake again.

How ironic that 60 years ago today JFK went public on the Cuban missile crisis.

I think you mean the 1994 Budapest Declaration and it is more complicated that you surmise

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Also ironic that SoS Antony Blinken's father was a signatory for the USA

I screwed up the name, yes. Thank you for correcting.

They could have kept the nukes, opening up numerous options, complicated as they are......

[Kismet]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

Nope. Had they told everyone in the Montreaux convention to F off, they'd be more than all set. They have nukes, and wouldn't need a single soldier to protect their borders.

They chose a peaceful path, and paid a price for it. They won't make that mistake again.

How ironic that 60 years ago today JFK went public on the Cuban missile crisis.

I think you mean the 1994 Budapest Declaration and it is more complicated that you surmise

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Also ironic that SoS Antony Blinken's father was a signatory for the USA

I screwed up the name, yes. Thank you for correcting.

They could have kept the nukes, opening up numerous options, complicated as they are......

No problem.
For the record, they had possession of the nukes but Russia had all of the codes to launch them.

BTW here are the estimates for Russian military losses so far

Russian losses, Feb 24 to Oct 21:

~66,750 killed
2,573 tanks
5,258 armoured vehicles
1,648 artillery systems
372 rocket launchers
189 air defense systems
269 aircraft
243 helicopters
1,325 UAVs
329 cruise missiles
16 ships/boats
4,006 vehicles/fuel trucks
147 special equipment

[old salt]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

So, some Ukrainians in power 20+ years ago made the "wrong" decisions by not investing in their military capacities...which, as you note, were Soviet made, dependent upon the empire from which they'd just split...

So, Ukraine doesn't deserve to be independent and free of Russia's yoke because of that "mistake"...got it.

The Ukrainians were the best & the brightest of the Soviet military & defense sector. They squandered it. They didn't "choose peace". They chose not to retain the ability to defend themselves. They did not need nucs for that. That would have been adequate had they stayed in the CIS & been Russia's ally like Belarus.They chose to align with the west but did not take the necessary steps to defend themselves & maintain their independence -- a basic obligation for any nation of that size. Their entire 30 year history since independence has been as a corrupt oligarchy. The West is propping them up because we lead them to this point. We want to divide & limit Russia -- deny them their historic heartland -- we are just too sanctimonious to admit it. We are fighting & prolonging this proxy war primarily to degrade Russia militarily & economically with the goal of regime change. We've been following the same game plan since the end of the Cold War. We are playing a dangerous game.

[a fan]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

Nope. Had they told everyone in the Montreaux convention to F off, they'd be more than all set. They have nukes, and wouldn't need a single soldier to protect their borders.

They chose a peaceful path, and paid a price for it. They won't make that mistake again.

How ironic that 60 years ago today JFK went public on the Cuban missile crisis.

I think you mean the 1994 Budapest Declaration and it is more complicated that you surmise

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Also ironic that SoS Antony Blinken's father was a signatory for the USA

I screwed up the name, yes. Thank you for correcting.

They could have kept the nukes, opening up numerous options, complicated as they are......

No problem.
For the record, they had possession of the nukes but Russia had all of the codes to launch them.

That's the claim, yes. I don't believe a word of anything that surrounds nukes.

But even if true? Rebuild them, or repurpose them. Plenty of options out there.

[old salt]

Montreaux Convention ?

[MDlaxfan76]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

So, some Ukrainians in power 20+ years ago made the "wrong" decisions by not investing in their military capacities...which, as you note, were Soviet made, dependent upon the empire from which they'd just split...

So, Ukraine doesn't deserve to be independent and free of Russia's yoke because of that "mistake"...got it.

The Ukrainians were the best & the brightest of the Soviet military & defense sector. They squandered it. They didn't "choose peace". They chose not to retain the ability to defend themselves. They did not need nucs for that. That would have been adequate had they stayed in the CIS & been Russia's ally like Belarus.They chose to align with the west but did not take the necessary steps to defend themselves & maintain their independence -- a basic obligation for any nation of that size. Their entire 30 year history since independence has been as a corrupt oligarchy. The West is propping them up because we lead them to this point. We want to divide & limit Russia -- deny them their historic heartland -- we are just too sanctimonious to admit it. We are fighting & prolonging this proxy war primarily to degrade Russia militarily & economically with the goal of regime change. We've been following the same game plan since the end of the Cold War. We are playing a dangerous game.

Yes, it's dangerous. Very.

But the most dangerous move would be to allow an imperialist aggressor invade and annex by force it's neighbor.

You say we should not help them, we should abandon their entreaties for hep, that we should let aggressors prevail.

After all, they could have been like Belarus...

and woe is me, poor Russia...

[old salt]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

So, some Ukrainians in power 20+ years ago made the "wrong" decisions by not investing in their military capacities...which, as you note, were Soviet made, dependent upon the empire from which they'd just split...

So, Ukraine doesn't deserve to be independent and free of Russia's yoke because of that "mistake"...got it.

The Ukrainians were the best & the brightest of the Soviet military & defense sector. They squandered it. They didn't "choose peace". They chose not to retain the ability to defend themselves. They did not need nucs for that. That would have been adequate had they stayed in the CIS & been Russia's ally like Belarus.They chose to align with the west but did not take the necessary steps to defend themselves & maintain their independence -- a basic obligation for any nation of that size. Their entire 30 year history since independence has been as a corrupt oligarchy. The West is propping them up because we lead them to this point. We want to divide & limit Russia -- deny them their historic heartland -- we are just too sanctimonious to admit it. We are fighting & prolonging this proxy war primarily to degrade Russia militarily & economically with the goal of regime change. We've been following the same game plan since the end of the Cold War. We are playing a dangerous game.

Yes, it's dangerous. Very.

But the most dangerous move would be to allow an imperialist aggressor invade and annex by force it's neighbor.

You say we should not help them, we should abandon their entreaties for hep, that we should let aggressors prevail.

After all, they could have been like Belarus...

We can't abandon them now. We're too far down this road. The die is cast. We can quietly push them to the negotiating table, leading to a frozen conflict. They may have to cede some territory they have lost -- that's the fortunes of war. They need to stop the death & destruction. Rebuild the country they've been able to defend, & with our continued support & protection, prove that they have become a liberal democracy, worthy of joining the West. ...Nuland, Applebaum & Soros already have plans for Belarus.

[MDlaxfan76]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

So, some Ukrainians in power 20+ years ago made the "wrong" decisions by not investing in their military capacities...which, as you note, were Soviet made, dependent upon the empire from which they'd just split...

So, Ukraine doesn't deserve to be independent and free of Russia's yoke because of that "mistake"...got it.

The Ukrainians were the best & the brightest of the Soviet military & defense sector. They squandered it. They didn't "choose peace". They chose not to retain the ability to defend themselves. They did not need nucs for that. That would have been adequate had they stayed in the CIS & been Russia's ally like Belarus.They chose to align with the west but did not take the necessary steps to defend themselves & maintain their independence -- a basic obligation for any nation of that size. Their entire 30 year history since independence has been as a corrupt oligarchy. The West is propping them up because we lead them to this point. We want to divide & limit Russia -- deny them their historic heartland -- we are just too sanctimonious to admit it. We are fighting & prolonging this proxy war primarily to degrade Russia militarily & economically with the goal of regime change. We've been following the same game plan since the end of the Cold War. We are playing a dangerous game.

Yes, it's dangerous. Very.

But the most dangerous move would be to allow an imperialist aggressor invade and annex by force it's neighbor.

You say we should not help them, we should abandon their entreaties for hep, that we should let aggressors prevail.

After all, they could have been like Belarus...

We can't abandon them now. We're too far down this road. The die is cast. We can quietly push them to the negotiating table, leading to a frozen conflict. They may have to cede some territory they have lost -- that's the fortunes of war. They need to stop the death & destruction. Rebuild the country they've been able to defend, & with our continued support & protection, prove that they have become a liberal democracy, worthy of joining the West. ...Nuland, Applebaum & Soros already have plans for Belarus.

gee, 3 people with Jewish descent re Belarus. hmmm.
Families from Ukraine, Belarus and Hungary.
Must be a global cabal...

Nope, forcing the invaded to cede territory and abandon the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed, injured, or deported to an imperialist, war crimes aggressor is never a good idea.

No matter whether the aggressor espouses a form of Christian Nationalism...

[get it to x]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

Nope. Had they told everyone in the Montreaux convention to F off, they'd be more than all set. They have nukes, and wouldn't need a single soldier to protect their borders.

They chose a peaceful path, and paid a price for it. They won't make that mistake again.

Yes, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. But another fork in the road between then and now could have had worse consequences. Nukes are a hell of a deterrent, but the responsibility/burden of having them is beyond my imagination.

Of course I would have dropped a third bomb on Japan if I could be certain it would have prevented Pokemon.

[Typical Lax Dad]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

So, some Ukrainians in power 20+ years ago made the "wrong" decisions by not investing in their military capacities...which, as you note, were Soviet made, dependent upon the empire from which they'd just split...

So, Ukraine doesn't deserve to be independent and free of Russia's yoke because of that "mistake"...got it.

The Ukrainians were the best & the brightest of the Soviet military & defense sector. They squandered it. They didn't "choose peace". They chose not to retain the ability to defend themselves. They did not need nucs for that. That would have been adequate had they stayed in the CIS & been Russia's ally like Belarus.They chose to align with the west but did not take the necessary steps to defend themselves & maintain their independence -- a basic obligation for any nation of that size. Their entire 30 year history since independence has been as a corrupt oligarchy. The West is propping them up because we lead them to this point. We want to divide & limit Russia -- deny them their historic heartland -- we are just too sanctimonious to admit it. We are fighting & prolonging this proxy war primarily to degrade Russia militarily & economically with the goal of regime change. We've been following the same game plan since the end of the Cold War. We are playing a dangerous game.

Yes, it's dangerous. Very.

But the most dangerous move would be to allow an imperialist aggressor invade and annex by force it's neighbor.

You say we should not help them, we should abandon their entreaties for hep, that we should let aggressors prevail.

After all, they could have been like Belarus...

We can't abandon them now. We're too far down this road. The die is cast. We can quietly push them to the negotiating table, leading to a frozen conflict. They may have to cede some territory they have lost -- that's the fortunes of war. They need to stop the death & destruction. Rebuild the country they've been able to defend, & with our continued support & protection, prove that they have become a liberal democracy, worthy of joining the West. ...Nuland, Applebaum & Soros already have plans for Belarus.

You should fire off a memo so that leadership is aware of your suggestions.

[get it to x]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

So, some Ukrainians in power 20+ years ago made the "wrong" decisions by not investing in their military capacities...which, as you note, were Soviet made, dependent upon the empire from which they'd just split...

So, Ukraine doesn't deserve to be independent and free of Russia's yoke because of that "mistake"...got it.

The Ukrainians were the best & the brightest of the Soviet military & defense sector. They squandered it. They didn't "choose peace". They chose not to retain the ability to defend themselves. They did not need nucs for that. That would have been adequate had they stayed in the CIS & been Russia's ally like Belarus.They chose to align with the west but did not take the necessary steps to defend themselves & maintain their independence -- a basic obligation for any nation of that size. Their entire 30 year history since independence has been as a corrupt oligarchy. The West is propping them up because we lead them to this point. We want to divide & limit Russia -- deny them their historic heartland -- we are just too sanctimonious to admit it. We are fighting & prolonging this proxy war primarily to degrade Russia militarily & economically with the goal of regime change. We've been following the same game plan since the end of the Cold War. We are playing a dangerous game.

Yes, it's dangerous. Very.

But the most dangerous move would be to allow an imperialist aggressor invade and annex by force it's neighbor.

You say we should not help them, we should abandon their entreaties for hep, that we should let aggressors prevail.

After all, they could have been like Belarus...

We can't abandon them now. We're too far down this road. The die is cast. We can quietly push them to the negotiating table, leading to a frozen conflict. They may have to cede some territory they have lost -- that's the fortunes of war. They need to stop the death & destruction. Rebuild the country they've been able to defend, & with our continued support & protection, prove that they have become a liberal democracy, worthy of joining the West. ...Nuland, Applebaum & Soros already have plans for Belarus.

You should fire off a memo so that leadership is aware of your suggestions.

You have Obama's email address?

[Typical Lax Dad]

If Ukraine had more cash, maybe they could be in pn this “pimpin’”.

“The hottest overseas job market for retired U.S. service members is a tiny Persian Gulf nation that outsources much of its military to foreign advisers and mercenaries.
Over the past seven years, 280 military retirees have sought federal authorization to work for the United Arab Emirates — far more than for any other country, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... _p003_f001

Had Ukraine retained & maintained the remnants of the Soviet conventional weapons defense industry resident on their soil when the USSR came apart, today they'd be the threat to Russia & the global supplier to nations still using Soviet legacy system weapons systems & their evolutionary successors. Just part of the tremendous national potential wasted.

So, some Ukrainians in power 20+ years ago made the "wrong" decisions by not investing in their military capacities...which, as you note, were Soviet made, dependent upon the empire from which they'd just split...

So, Ukraine doesn't deserve to be independent and free of Russia's yoke because of that "mistake"...got it.

The Ukrainians were the best & the brightest of the Soviet military & defense sector. They squandered it. They didn't "choose peace". They chose not to retain the ability to defend themselves. They did not need nucs for that. That would have been adequate had they stayed in the CIS & been Russia's ally like Belarus.They chose to align with the west but did not take the necessary steps to defend themselves & maintain their independence -- a basic obligation for any nation of that size. Their entire 30 year history since independence has been as a corrupt oligarchy. The West is propping them up because we lead them to this point. We want to divide & limit Russia -- deny them their historic heartland -- we are just too sanctimonious to admit it. We are fighting & prolonging this proxy war primarily to degrade Russia militarily & economically with the goal of regime change. We've been following the same game plan since the end of the Cold War. We are playing a dangerous game.

Yes, it's dangerous. Very.

But the most dangerous move would be to allow an imperialist aggressor invade and annex by force it's neighbor.

You say we should not help them, we should abandon their entreaties for hep, that we should let aggressors prevail.

After all, they could have been like Belarus...

We can't abandon them now. We're too far down this road. The die is cast. We can quietly push them to the negotiating table, leading to a frozen conflict. They may have to cede some territory they have lost -- that's the fortunes of war. They need to stop the death & destruction. Rebuild the country they've been able to defend, & with our continued support & protection, prove that they have become a liberal democracy, worthy of joining the West. ...Nuland, Applebaum & Soros already have plans for Belarus.

You should fire off a memo so that leadership is aware of your suggestions.

You have Obama's email address?

No….though I have pictures from the election night war room from his first election victory…. got them as results were coming in….