Sure we do.
You REALLY can't name one..... and your Grad School seminar grade depends on it?
Sure we do.
We do now. Several. It's a war & we're in it up to our neck. Our credibility as a global superpower is at stake.
Yeah, no.
I already did, in my last post & several before it.a fan wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:37 amYeah, no.
Name them. You've got all this figured out.....and you, like VDH, are lecturing everyone else without being able to say what to do, other than the political platitude of "this is all on Zelensky to cede territory and surrender immediately".
This is right up there with boy-genius Kushner solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
So what is the strategic interest of helping Ukraine? Name one. Heck, I'll put a star by your name if you can name two.
No. You didn't.
Here's what our bipartisan elite leadership was telling us going into this war about our strategic interests in Ukraine.a fan wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:15 amNo. You didn't.
That's "Biden is doing it wrong" jingoism.
Lay it out. Bullet points will suffice.
I'll help you, since this is apparently so hard for someone with your training to name strategic interests surrounding Urkaine and this war.
-control of the Black Sea and shipping in and out of it.
There. That's one. Give me others.
...& somehow, of all the nations of the world, it falls to the USA to enforce that agreement, ...to which we were not a party.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:17 am The RU reached agreement with Ukraine in 1991. The current war is a continued violation of that international agreement.
You can roll your eyes, or let an emoji do it for you. That's fine. But there are -- whether we like it or not -- crucial strategic interests at issue in Ukraine and resulting from the Czar's invasion of one of the former Soviet republics. You can be Chamberlain, and VDH can play Daladier in the film version.old salt wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:54 am...& somehow, of all the nations of the world, it falls to the USA to enforce that agreement, ...to which we were not a party.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:17 am The RU reached agreement with Ukraine in 1991. The current war is a continued violation of that international agreement.
Let's protect that world order. The Russians are coming. US national security begins in Ukraine.
The "World Order" has no respect for sovereign borders. The EU is a prime example. Look at their reaction to Italians voting in a nationalist. They threatened to use all of the tools at their disposal if Italy elected the "wrong" sort of leader.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:17 am Protecting and vindicating the world order -- the basic rules of international law, respect for sovereign borders, respect for international compacts, and non-aggression provisions in the UN Charter and elsewhere -- seem like pretty important strategic interests for a nation that does business with every part of the world. Protecting against energy blackmailers seems pretty important for the EU. What is at risk in Ukraine, whether we like it or not, is all of these important matters that knit together a world that is basically peaceful and respectful of the borders and identities of other nation states. All of this, no matter that your silly palaver is trying endlessly to blame Biden, is plainly laid at the feet of the Russian Union and its leader.
If I was in college in 45 BC, I couldn't imagine a world in which Rome didn't include Northern Africa, Britain, Gaul, and parts of Germania. Can we stop the stupid flashbacks now? The RU reached agreement with Ukraine in 1991. The current war is a continued violation of that international agreement. For better or worse, Putin has presented a test case, a frightening stress test for the West's ability to counter lawlessness. It must be vindicated. Putin is a revisionist power, and has now cast his lot with being a war leader. He has to be controlled and removed if possible. And the West has to help make it happen.
We need to cut tail and run.old salt wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:54 am...& somehow, of all the nations of the world, it falls to the USA to enforce that agreement, ...to which we were not a party.Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:17 am The RU reached agreement with Ukraine in 1991. The current war is a continued violation of that international agreement.
Let's protect that world order. The Russians are coming. US national security begins in Ukraine.
+1Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:16 am "... Vladimir Putin's regrettable incursion into eastern Ukraine...."
Thanks for the pro-Putin propaganda. Laughable and sad at the same time. We'll just agree to disagree. And I think the supposed polling of Ukrainians migh now be different than that article suggests. I agree that "the median American" doesn't care or understand the consequences of allowing Putin to leave Ukraine with "Kyiv...secure." I'm just -- how can say this? -- not sure that the "median American's" opinion should be determinative of this important international crisis created by a lawless thug for his dreams of empire. I guess that makes me part of the "smart set."
Trump is the “smart set”jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:42 am+1Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:16 am "... Vladimir Putin's regrettable incursion into eastern Ukraine...."
Thanks for the pro-Putin propaganda. Laughable and sad at the same time. We'll just agree to disagree. And I think the supposed polling of Ukrainians migh now be different than that article suggests. I agree that "the median American" doesn't care or understand the consequences of allowing Putin to leave Ukraine with "Kyiv...secure." I'm just -- how can say this? -- not sure that the "median American's" opinion should be determinative of this important international crisis created by a lawless thug for his dreams of empire. I guess that makes me part of the "smart set."
You mean pro-peace propaganda, right? Interesting you chose this fight between two white peoples as your hill to die on. What about all of the conflict between black and brown peoples all over the world? I guess Sudan didn't have the bomb, so we could just sit back and clutch our pearls about Darfur. But you probably think Zelensky is noble, when he is almost as big a thug as Putin. I wonder if he's taking 10% off the top of all of the aid we're sending. He's Ukraine's "Big Guy".Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:16 am "... Vladimir Putin's regrettable incursion into eastern Ukraine...."
Thanks for the pro-Putin propaganda. Laughable and sad at the same time. We'll just agree to disagree. And I think the supposed polling of Ukrainians migh now be different than that article suggests. I agree that "the median American" doesn't care or understand the consequences of allowing Putin to leave Ukraine with "Kyiv...secure." I'm just -- how can say this? -- not sure that the "median American's" opinion should be determinative of this important international crisis created by a lawless thug for his dreams of empire. I guess that makes me part of the "smart set."
Aren’t you banned, Peter Brown?Essexfenwick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:46 amTrump is the “smart set”jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:42 am+1Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:16 am "... Vladimir Putin's regrettable incursion into eastern Ukraine...."
Thanks for the pro-Putin propaganda. Laughable and sad at the same time. We'll just agree to disagree. And I think the supposed polling of Ukrainians migh now be different than that article suggests. I agree that "the median American" doesn't care or understand the consequences of allowing Putin to leave Ukraine with "Kyiv...secure." I'm just -- how can say this? -- not sure that the "median American's" opinion should be determinative of this important international crisis created by a lawless thug for his dreams of empire. I guess that makes me part of the "smart set."
Peace and no Russian aggression.
JoeTard and the DeepStateTards have the world on the brink of destruction in just over 1 year of their “WMD in Iraq” level stupidity.
Three?DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:51 amAren’t you banned, Peter Brown?Essexfenwick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:46 amTrump is the “smart set”jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:42 am+1Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:16 am "... Vladimir Putin's regrettable incursion into eastern Ukraine...."
Thanks for the pro-Putin propaganda. Laughable and sad at the same time. We'll just agree to disagree. And I think the supposed polling of Ukrainians migh now be different than that article suggests. I agree that "the median American" doesn't care or understand the consequences of allowing Putin to leave Ukraine with "Kyiv...secure." I'm just -- how can say this? -- not sure that the "median American's" opinion should be determinative of this important international crisis created by a lawless thug for his dreams of empire. I guess that makes me part of the "smart set."
Peace and no Russian aggression.
JoeTard and the DeepStateTards have the world on the brink of destruction in just over 1 year of their “WMD in Iraq” level stupidity.
DocBarrister
The whataboutism is useless to the discussion. Again, we will agree to disagree. And, just guessing here but there are a lot of distinguishing features between the topic here -- Russian adventurism and violence -- and the situation you try to raise.get it to x wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:48 amYou mean pro-peace propaganda, right? Interesting you chose this fight between two white peoples as your hill to die on. What about all of the conflict between black and brown peoples all over the world? I guess Sudan didn't have the bomb, so we could just sit back and clutch our pearls about Darfur. But you probably think Zelensky is noble, when he is almost as big a thug as Putin. I wonder if he's taking 10% off the top of all of the aid we're sending. He's Ukraine's "Big Guy".Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:16 am "... Vladimir Putin's regrettable incursion into eastern Ukraine...."
Thanks for the pro-Putin propaganda. Laughable and sad at the same time. We'll just agree to disagree. And I think the supposed polling of Ukrainians migh now be different than that article suggests. I agree that "the median American" doesn't care or understand the consequences of allowing Putin to leave Ukraine with "Kyiv...secure." I'm just -- how can say this? -- not sure that the "median American's" opinion should be determinative of this important international crisis created by a lawless thug for his dreams of empire. I guess that makes me part of the "smart set."