All Things Russia & Ukraine

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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

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old salt wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:53 am
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:17 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:19 pm Now that I've discovered where VDH has been publishing, it's interesting to walk backwards through what he's been saying about this war.
VDH is, after all, a highly regarded military historian who included political & cultural factors in his history of wars. He was praised by the likes of Sir John Keegan. He was also a visiting fellow at USNA for a semester. All before he began commenting on contemporary politics & culture.
He's hardly a Putin fan or apologist. Much of this could have been written by DocB.
https://amgreatness.com/2022/09/14/ukra ... or-a-bang/
:lol: You're pretending that you didn't notice that this piece is ENTIRELY different in tone and content from the last piece you cited?

No mention of Biden. No mention of "A once haughty and sanctimonious green Europe". No mention of "the left".

Totally different work, and still managed to give an assessment of the situation. A Xmas miracle!!

It's as if I've been right to criticize his nonsensical partisan horse hockey all these years, preferring that he (horrors) simply call balls and strikes.

How about that?
It's totally consistent on the subject -- the war in Ukraine.

He just doesn't lapse into domestic partisan politics in the second piece, which is apparently the only thing you read for.
Yes. He did. Rendering the essay utterly useless. Would you take a foreign policy take serious if Rachel Maddow wrote it, and spent half her time hitting the American right with complaints that have NOTHING to do with the subject at hand? Of course not. You wouldn't take her seriously.

But sure, pretend like this is SO hard to understand.

If VDH wrote like he did in the second piece? I wouldn't complain, and would actually consider his opinion.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

As of September 14, that was a pretty fair assessment...having been so utterly wrong in his earlier assessments. Those earlier assessments look even more wrong on October 5.

But even when he's acknowledging a new reality, Hanson doesn't attribute the successes of the Ukrainians as of that moment to the Ukrainian's superior morale (though he'd acknowledged that possible factor) rather he attributes their success to the West's superior weaponry...both, combined, are what is working, relative to the Russian morale. Western weaponry would not be sufficient if the morale advantage was reversed. He'd missed that nearly entirely in earlier assessments and still struggles to recognize it.

He feeds into Putin's narrative that this is a proxy war between the West and Putin's Russia, rather than the West coming to the defense of sovereign neighbor brutally attacked...very different tone and Hanson knows it. He ain't dumb.

Hanson then turns to scenarios that are indeed very thorny...I say, 'ya, und?'...what is the recommendation?

Ohh yeah, force the Ukrainians to negotiate and accede to Putin's demands, else America will "slide into a nuclear confrontation with a desperate autocrat".

Same old story.

Hanson should stick to writing conservative opinions about history. But that ain't where the $$$ are I guess.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by CU88 »

Estonian PM says West should heed, not appease Putin threats

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 38f15851a3

Kallas recalled the Soviet occupation of Estonia, during which a significant portion of the country’s political and social elite was imprisoned, deported or killed. “Even if there is peace, it doesn’t mean that the human suffering for those territories will end,” Kallas said.






Bottom line, don't negotiate with terrorists.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by youthathletics »

Putin signs unification treaties for new Russian regions: https://www.rt.com/russia/564049-putin- ... -treaties/

The agreements were signed by Putin and the heads of the four former Ukrainian regions on Friday, after the residents of the territories overwhelmingly backed the idea of joining Russia during referendums held between September 23 and 27. The votes have been firmly rejected by Kiev and its Western backers, who have vowed to never accept their results nor recognize the four regions' accession.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:32 pm Putin signs unification treaties for new Russian regions: https://www.rt.com/russia/564049-putin- ... -treaties/

The agreements were signed by Putin and the heads of the four former Ukrainian regions on Friday, after the residents of the territories overwhelmingly backed the idea of joining Russia during referendums held between September 23 and 27. The votes have been firmly rejected by Kiev and its Western backers, who have vowed to never accept their results nor recognize the four regions' accession.
Ron Johnson certify it?
“I wish you would!”
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:32 pm
youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:32 pm Putin signs unification treaties for new Russian regions: https://www.rt.com/russia/564049-putin- ... -treaties/

The agreements were signed by Putin and the heads of the four former Ukrainian regions on Friday, after the residents of the territories overwhelmingly backed the idea of joining Russia during referendums held between September 23 and 27. The votes have been firmly rejected by Kiev and its Western backers, who have vowed to never accept their results nor recognize the four regions' accession.
Ron Johnson certify it?
Probably waiting on you to proof and edit it, then ask 100 questions, followed by youtube clips, and conversations you just had with friends this week. ;) :lol:
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

We cannot just get accustomed to it; because silence and acceptance is complicity in our own undoing:

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters ... apple_news

"I am taken aback, and not for the first time, that terrible and shocking things now just flow over Americans as if chaos is part of a normal day. We don’t have to accept the new normal.

The Widening Gyre

I began the morning, as I often do, with a cup of coffee and a discussion with a friend. We were talking about last week’s nuclear warnings from Russian President Vladimir Putin, and while we were on the subject of unhinged threats, I mentioned Donald Trump’s bizarre statement over the weekend that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell had a “DEATH WISH,” with a racist slam on McConnell’s wife, Elaine Chao, added in for good measure.

“Oh, yeah,” my friend said. “I’d forgotten about that.” To be honest, so had I. But when I opened Twitter today, The Bulwark publisher Sarah Longwell’s tweet that “we are still under-reacting to the threat of Trump” jumped out at me. She’s right.

We are also, in a way, underreacting to the war in Ukraine. Our attention, understandably, has become focused on the human drama. But we are losing our grip on the larger story and greater danger: Russia’s dictator is demanding that he be allowed to take whatever he wants, at will and by force. He is now, as both my colleague Anne Applebaum and I have written, at war not only with Ukraine, but with the entire international order. He (like his admirer Trump) is at war with democracy itself.

And somehow, we have all just gotten used to it.


We are inured to these events not because we are callous or uncaring. Rather, people such as Trump and Putin have sent us into a tailspin, a vortex of mad rhetoric and literal violence that has unmoored us from any sense of the moral principles that once guided us, however imperfectly, both at home and abroad. This is “the widening gyre” W. B. Yeats wrote about in 1919, the sense that “anarchy is loosed upon the world” as “things fall apart.”

For many years, I have often felt this way in the course of an ordinary day, when it seems as if I am living in a dystopian alternate universe. A time of hope and progress that began in the late 1980s was somehow derailed, perhaps even before the last chunks of the Berlin Wall’s corpse were being cleared from the Friedrichstrasse. (This was a time, for example, when we started taking people like Ross Perot seriously, which was an early warning sign of our incipient post–Cold War stupor.) Here are some of the many moments in which I have felt that sense of vertigo:

In my lifetime, I have seen polio defeated and smallpox eradicated. Now hundreds of thousands of Americans are dead—and still dying—because they refused a lifesaving vaccine as a test of their political loyalty to an ignoramus.

After living under the threat of Armageddon, I saw the Soviet flag lowered from the Kremlin and an explosion of freedom across Eastern Europe. An American president then took U.S. strategic forces off high alert and ordered the destruction of thousands of nuclear weapons with the stroke of a pen. Now, each day, I try to estimate the chances that Putin, one of the last orphans of the Soviet system, will spark a nuclear cataclysm in the name of his delusional attempt to turn the clock back 30 years.

As a boy in 1974, I delivered the newspaper that announced the resignation of Richard Nixon, who was driven from office in a political drama so wrenching that part of its name—Watergate—has become a suffix in our language for a scandal of any kind. Now the front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination is a former president who is a walking Roman candle of racist kookery and unhinged conspiracy theories, who has defied the law with malicious glee, and who has supported mobs that wanted to kill his vice president.
Against all this, how can we not be overwhelmed? We stand in the middle of a flood of horrendous events, shouted down by the outsize voices of people such as Trump and his stooges, enervated and exhausted by the dark threats of dictators such as Putin. It’s just too much, especially when we already have plenty of other responsibilities, including our jobs and taking care of our loved ones. We think we are alone and helpless, because there is nothing to convince us otherwise. How can anyone fight the sense that “the center cannot hold”?

But we are not helpless. The center can hold—because we are the center. We are citizens of a democracy who can refuse to accept the threats of mob bosses, whether in Florida or in Russia. We can and must vote, but that’s not enough. We must also speak out. By temperament, I am not much for public demonstrations, but if that’s your preferred form of expression, then organize and march. The rest of us, however, can act, every day, on a small scale.

Speak up. Do not stay silent when our fellow citizens equivocate and rationalize. Defend what’s right, whether to a friend or a family member. Refuse to laugh along with the flip cynicism that makes a joke of everything. Stay informed so that the stink of a death threat from a former president or the rattle of a nuclear saber from a Russian autocrat does not simply rush past you as if you’ve just driven by a sewage plant.

None of this is easy to do. But we are entering a time of important choices, both at home at the ballot box and abroad on foreign battlefields, and the center—the confident and resolute defense of peace, freedom, and the rule of law—must hold."
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

I agree with Tom Nichols, not VDH.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by DocBarrister »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:32 pm Putin signs unification treaties for new Russian regions: https://www.rt.com/russia/564049-putin- ... -treaties/

The agreements were signed by Putin and the heads of the four former Ukrainian regions on Friday, after the residents of the territories overwhelmingly backed the idea of joining Russia during referendums held between September 23 and 27. The votes have been firmly rejected by Kiev and its Western backers, who have vowed to never accept their results nor recognize the four regions' accession.
Why are you circulating Russian propaganda and lies on this forum?

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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by youthathletics »

DocBarrister wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:15 pm
youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:32 pm Putin signs unification treaties for new Russian regions: https://www.rt.com/russia/564049-putin- ... -treaties/

The agreements were signed by Putin and the heads of the four former Ukrainian regions on Friday, after the residents of the territories overwhelmingly backed the idea of joining Russia during referendums held between September 23 and 27. The votes have been firmly rejected by Kiev and its Western backers, who have vowed to never accept their results nor recognize the four regions' accession.
Why are you circulating Russian propaganda and lies on this forum?

DocBarrister
I take after you? Take it up with Business insider https://www.businessinsider.in/internat ... 659919.cms
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:35 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:32 pm
youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:32 pm Putin signs unification treaties for new Russian regions: https://www.rt.com/russia/564049-putin- ... -treaties/

The agreements were signed by Putin and the heads of the four former Ukrainian regions on Friday, after the residents of the territories overwhelmingly backed the idea of joining Russia during referendums held between September 23 and 27. The votes have been firmly rejected by Kiev and its Western backers, who have vowed to never accept their results nor recognize the four regions' accession.
Ron Johnson certify it?
Probably waiting on you to proof and edit it, then ask 100 questions, followed by youtube clips, and conversations you just had with friends this week. ;) :lol:
:lol: :lol:
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:26 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:15 pm
youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:32 pm Putin signs unification treaties for new Russian regions: https://www.rt.com/russia/564049-putin- ... -treaties/

The agreements were signed by Putin and the heads of the four former Ukrainian regions on Friday, after the residents of the territories overwhelmingly backed the idea of joining Russia during referendums held between September 23 and 27. The votes have been firmly rejected by Kiev and its Western backers, who have vowed to never accept their results nor recognize the four regions' accession.
Why are you circulating Russian propaganda and lies on this forum?

DocBarrister
I take after you? Take it up with Business insider https://www.businessinsider.in/internat ... 659919.cms
copying the RT article in their India edition?

You could have cited CNN or such on the same news:
see any differences?

Putin signs laws claiming to annex 4 Ukrainian regions

Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed into law measures that claim to annex four Ukrainian regions into the Russian Federation.
The claimed annexations of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson are illegal under international law.

Leaders around the world have said they are the result of “sham” referendums held at gunpoint, and will never be recognized.

However, the move is an important step in Russia’s faltering effort to seize control in Ukraine, with Putin claiming that the will of occupied Ukrainians is to belong to Russia — offering a false pretext to his efforts to claim the occupied territories as Moscow’s.

Western officials have previously suggested that Putin will likely seek to reframe Ukraine's counteroffensive in the four regions and any others as an attack on Russia sovereignty.

Some context: Russia does not fully control the regions it claims to have annexed and Moscow is losing territory to the Ukrainian military in the south and east of the country by the day. In some areas, such as Kherson, those losses are coming at a rapid pace.

The Kremlin does not even appear to be clear on the borders of the territory it is annexing. Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov on Monday said “we will continue consulting with the population of these regions.”

A regional Ukrainian official in the Zaporizhzhia region said on Tuesday that Russia was trying to establish a “state border” at the Vasylivka checkpoint, which separates Russian-held territory from the rest of Ukraine, including the regional capital of Zaporizhzhia.

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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by CU88 »

"If Russia stops fighting, the war ends; if Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends.

If Biden stays strong, with U.S. drones as a judicious increment in punishing Putin’s brutality by reversing his aggression, Biden’s presidency will be deemed by wise historians as, on balance, a success." - George Will
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:01 am As of September 14, that was a pretty fair assessment...having been so utterly wrong in his earlier assessments. Those earlier assessments look even more wrong on October 5.

But even when he's acknowledging a new reality, Hanson doesn't attribute the successes of the Ukrainians as of that moment to the Ukrainian's superior morale (though he'd acknowledged that possible factor) rather he attributes their success to the West's superior weaponry...both, combined, are what is working, relative to the Russian morale. Western weaponry would not be sufficient if the morale advantage was reversed. He'd missed that nearly entirely in earlier assessments and still struggles to recognize it.

He feeds into Putin's narrative that this is a proxy war between the West and Putin's Russia, rather than the West coming to the defense of sovereign neighbor brutally attacked...very different tone and Hanson knows it. He ain't dumb.

Hanson then turns to scenarios that are indeed very thorny...I say, 'ya, und?'...what is the recommendation?

Ohh yeah, force the Ukrainians to negotiate and accede to Putin's demands, else America will "slide into a nuclear confrontation with a desperate autocrat".

Same old story.

Hanson should stick to writing conservative opinions about history. But that ain't where the $$$ are I guess.
So he acknowledges the Ukrainians superior morale but somehow he doesn't consider that a factor in their success ?

He's making the point that the Ukrainians superior morale is a factor but that would not be enough without superior western weapons.
Do you disagree with that ?
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:45 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:01 am As of September 14, that was a pretty fair assessment...having been so utterly wrong in his earlier assessments. Those earlier assessments look even more wrong on October 5.

But even when he's acknowledging a new reality, Hanson doesn't attribute the successes of the Ukrainians as of that moment to the Ukrainian's superior morale (though he'd acknowledged that possible factor) rather he attributes their success to the West's superior weaponry...both, combined, are what is working, relative to the Russian morale. Western weaponry would not be sufficient if the morale advantage was reversed. He'd missed that nearly entirely in earlier assessments and still struggles to recognize it.

He feeds into Putin's narrative that this is a proxy war between the West and Putin's Russia, rather than the West coming to the defense of sovereign neighbor brutally attacked...very different tone and Hanson knows it. He ain't dumb.

Hanson then turns to scenarios that are indeed very thorny...I say, 'ya, und?'...what is the recommendation?

Ohh yeah, force the Ukrainians to negotiate and accede to Putin's demands, else America will "slide into a nuclear confrontation with a desperate autocrat".

Same old story.

Hanson should stick to writing conservative opinions about history. But that ain't where the $$$ are I guess.
So he acknowledges the Ukrainians superior morale but somehow he doesn't consider that a factor in their success ?

He's making the point that the Ukrainians superior morale is a factor but that would not be enough without superior western weapons.
Do you disagree with that ?
As you know, I certainly think that "superior western weapons" matter (a lot), especially precision targeted.

However, Hanson does not say that the Ukrainians had/have a big advantage in morale...he nods at the importance of morale, but then ignores it, though he does describe the Ukrainians as "heroic".

Soon the conflict descended into a war of attrition in Eastern Ukraine over the occupied majority Russian-speaking borderlands.

That deadlock was eventually going to be resolved by relative morale, manpower, and supply.

Would the high-tech weaponry and money of the United States and Europe allow heroic Ukrainian forces to be better equipped than a larger Russian force—drawing on an economy 10 times greater and a population nearly four times larger than Ukraine’s?

After the latest sudden Ukrainian territorial gains and embarrassing Russian retreats, we now know the answer.

Russia may be bigger and richer than Ukraine, but it is not up to the combined resources of the United States, along with the nations of NATO and the European Union.

Most are now in a de facto proxy war with an increasingly overwhelmed Russia. And so far, a circumspect China has not stepped in to try to remedy the Russian dilemma.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Essexfenwick »

CU88 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:11 pm "If Russia stops fighting, the war ends; if Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends.

If Biden stays strong, with U.S. drones as a judicious increment in punishing Putin’s brutality by reversing his aggression, Biden’s presidency will be deemed by wise historians as, on balance, a success." - George Will
George Will is a nutcase. Like Sheldon in a bow tie. Like Trump .. he is divorced but unlike Trump .. his genes are suspect an he abandoned his wife who he created a downs syndrome child with.

Fun fact.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by DocBarrister »

Essexfenwick wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:59 pm
CU88 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:11 pm "If Russia stops fighting, the war ends; if Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends.

If Biden stays strong, with U.S. drones as a judicious increment in punishing Putin’s brutality by reversing his aggression, Biden’s presidency will be deemed by wise historians as, on balance, a success." - George Will
George Will is a nutcase. Like Sheldon in a bow tie. Like Trump .. he is divorced but unlike Trump .. his genes are suspect an he abandoned his wife who he created a downs syndrome child with.

Fun fact.
You should be banned permanently for denigrating innocent kids born with disabilities.

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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:29 am
old salt wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:53 am
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:17 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:19 pm Now that I've discovered where VDH has been publishing, it's interesting to walk backwards through what he's been saying about this war.
VDH is, after all, a highly regarded military historian who included political & cultural factors in his history of wars. He was praised by the likes of Sir John Keegan. He was also a visiting fellow at USNA for a semester. All before he began commenting on contemporary politics & culture.
He's hardly a Putin fan or apologist. Much of this could have been written by DocB.
https://amgreatness.com/2022/09/14/ukra ... or-a-bang/
:lol: You're pretending that you didn't notice that this piece is ENTIRELY different in tone and content from the last piece you cited?

No mention of Biden. No mention of "A once haughty and sanctimonious green Europe". No mention of "the left".

Totally different work, and still managed to give an assessment of the situation. A Xmas miracle!!

It's as if I've been right to criticize his nonsensical partisan horse hockey all these years, preferring that he (horrors) simply call balls and strikes.

How about that?
It's totally consistent on the subject -- the war in Ukraine.

He just doesn't lapse into domestic partisan politics in the second piece, which is apparently the only thing you read for.
Yes. He did. Rendering the essay utterly useless. Would you take a foreign policy take serious if Rachel Maddow wrote it, and spent half her time hitting the American right with complaints that have NOTHING to do with the subject at hand? Of course not. You wouldn't take her seriously.

But sure, pretend like this is SO hard to understand.

If VDH wrote like he did in the second piece? I wouldn't complain, and would actually consider his opinion.
The second piece is the one we are discussing. The link is in your quote.
I'm pointing out that when you strip away the political banter, it could have been written by DocB.
There was almost no political banter in the earlier article, both were consistent on the subject of the war.
I'm not pretending to not notice anything. When I reply to DocB, I filter out the political banter & reply to the substance in his posts.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

DocBarrister wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:11 pm
Essexfenwick wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:59 pm
CU88 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:11 pm "If Russia stops fighting, the war ends; if Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends.

If Biden stays strong, with U.S. drones as a judicious increment in punishing Putin’s brutality by reversing his aggression, Biden’s presidency will be deemed by wise historians as, on balance, a success." - George Will
George Will is a nutcase. Like Sheldon in a bow tie. Like Trump .. he is divorced but unlike Trump .. his genes are suspect an he abandoned his wife who he created a downs syndrome child with.

Fun fact.
You should be banned permanently for denigrating innocent kids born with disabilities.

DocBarrister
He's just re-testing the "how low can you go" trolling boundaries. Disgusting.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:59 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:45 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:01 am As of September 14, that was a pretty fair assessment...having been so utterly wrong in his earlier assessments. Those earlier assessments look even more wrong on October 5.

But even when he's acknowledging a new reality, Hanson doesn't attribute the successes of the Ukrainians as of that moment to the Ukrainian's superior morale (though he'd acknowledged that possible factor) rather he attributes their success to the West's superior weaponry...both, combined, are what is working, relative to the Russian morale. Western weaponry would not be sufficient if the morale advantage was reversed. He'd missed that nearly entirely in earlier assessments and still struggles to recognize it.

He feeds into Putin's narrative that this is a proxy war between the West and Putin's Russia, rather than the West coming to the defense of sovereign neighbor brutally attacked...very different tone and Hanson knows it. He ain't dumb.

Hanson then turns to scenarios that are indeed very thorny...I say, 'ya, und?'...what is the recommendation?

Ohh yeah, force the Ukrainians to negotiate and accede to Putin's demands, else America will "slide into a nuclear confrontation with a desperate autocrat".

Same old story.

Hanson should stick to writing conservative opinions about history. But that ain't where the $$$ are I guess.
So he acknowledges the Ukrainians superior morale but somehow he doesn't consider that a factor in their success ?

He's making the point that the Ukrainians superior morale is a factor but that would not be enough without superior western weapons.
Do you disagree with that ?
As you know, I certainly think that "superior western weapons" matter (a lot), especially precision targeted.

However, Hanson does not say that the Ukrainians had/have a big advantage in morale...he nods at the importance of morale, but then ignores it, though he does describe the Ukrainians as "heroic".

Soon the conflict descended into a war of attrition in Eastern Ukraine over the occupied majority Russian-speaking borderlands.

That deadlock was eventually going to be resolved by relative morale, manpower, and supply.

Would the high-tech weaponry and money of the United States and Europe allow heroic Ukrainian forces to be better equipped than a larger Russian force—drawing on an economy 10 times greater and a population nearly four times larger than Ukraine’s?

After the latest sudden Ukrainian territorial gains and embarrassing Russian retreats, we now know the answer.

Russia may be bigger and richer than Ukraine, but it is not up to the combined resources of the United States, along with the nations of NATO and the European Union.

Most are now in a de facto proxy war with an increasingly overwhelmed Russia. And so far, a circumspect China has not stepped in to try to remedy the Russian dilemma.
What you say is a "nod" is establishing it as a given in the analysis. Rather than restating it, it is implicit in the terminology used -- morale...heroic...embarrassing.

He cites morale as one of the 3 factors determining the outcome of the battles in the east.
He doesn't even include weapons superiority in that formula, since he had already established it as a given.

It's obvious that superiority in both weaponry AND morale are consistent factors in the success.
You're splitting hairs.

What were Hanson's earlier assessments which were wrong ?

It's naive to deny that the Ukrainians are US proxies -- supply, training, ISR & limits to targeting.
Last edited by old salt on Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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