Ron Desantis (The Desantis Doctrine)

[SCLaxAttack]

More stupid, right wing pandering from this a-hole governor: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/politics ... index.html

Pretty sure that Larry Fink of Blackrock knows a heck of a lot more about investing that does Ron DeSantis. And he ain't gonna worry about Ron's $240 million of pension fund assets when he has $10 trillion to invest.

But note that DeSantis isn't playing stupid with his own money, it's the pensions of thousands of Florida's retired public servants, teachers, policemen, etc...

I wonder what Ron will say when their fund managers come back with DIS buy recommendations.

[MDlaxfan76]

More stupid, right wing pandering from this a-hole governor: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/politics ... index.html

Pretty sure that Larry Fink of Blackrock knows a heck of a lot more about investing that does Ron DeSantis. And he ain't gonna worry about Ron's $240 million of pension fund assets when he has $10 trillion to invest.

But note that DeSantis isn't playing stupid with his own money, it's the pensions of thousands of Florida's retired public servants, teachers, policemen, etc...

I wonder what Ron will say when their fund managers come back with DIS buy recommendations.

I miss typed. Billion not million, but same point. Not gonna worry about Ron, when bigger pension funds are requiring ESG, and performance is better too.

[Farfromgeneva]

More stupid, right wing pandering from this a-hole governor: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/politics ... index.html

Pretty sure that Larry Fink of Blackrock knows a heck of a lot more about investing that does Ron DeSantis. And he ain't gonna worry about Ron's $240 million of pension fund assets when he has $10 trillion to invest.

But note that DeSantis isn't playing stupid with his own money, it's the pensions of thousands of Florida's retired public servants, teachers, policemen, etc...

I wonder what Ron will say when their fund managers come back with DIS buy recommendations.

I miss typed. Billion not million, but same point. Not gonna worry about Ron, when bigger pension funds are requiring ESG, and performance is better too.

Funny thing is most esg investing is really weak in its goals. Some very loose companies get thrown into the esg bucket because they have too much capital to be deployed and not enough true Esg investments out there (which predominantly involves “E” there isn’t a ton of G and S is amorphous with the times).

[jhu72]

DeSantis' Stop Woke Act under injunction of Federal Court for 1st and 14th amendment violations. Was only a matter of time. Just one more fascist wanna be.

[MDlaxfan76]

More stupid, right wing pandering from this a-hole governor: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/politics ... index.html

Pretty sure that Larry Fink of Blackrock knows a heck of a lot more about investing that does Ron DeSantis. And he ain't gonna worry about Ron's $240 million of pension fund assets when he has $10 trillion to invest.

But note that DeSantis isn't playing stupid with his own money, it's the pensions of thousands of Florida's retired public servants, teachers, policemen, etc...

I wonder what Ron will say when their fund managers come back with DIS buy recommendations.

I miss typed. Billion not million, but same point. Not gonna worry about Ron, when bigger pension funds are requiring ESG, and performance is better too.

Funny thing is most esg investing is really weak in its goals. Some very loose companies get thrown into the esg bucket because they have too much capital to be deployed and not enough true Esg investments out there (which predominantly involves “E” there isn’t a ton of G and S is amorphous with the times).

My understanding is that the primary push in the investing world is the establishment of standard measurement tools, with required reporting by portfolio companies...attention and progress is the most important expectation by the investors for those companies not founded with an explicitly ESG model. That attention and progress may well be simply correlated with overall sound management practices, especially on a longer term horizon.

[Farfromgeneva]

More stupid, right wing pandering from this a-hole governor: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/politics ... index.html

Pretty sure that Larry Fink of Blackrock knows a heck of a lot more about investing that does Ron DeSantis. And he ain't gonna worry about Ron's $240 million of pension fund assets when he has $10 trillion to invest.

But note that DeSantis isn't playing stupid with his own money, it's the pensions of thousands of Florida's retired public servants, teachers, policemen, etc...

I wonder what Ron will say when their fund managers come back with DIS buy recommendations.

I miss typed. Billion not million, but same point. Not gonna worry about Ron, when bigger pension funds are requiring ESG, and performance is better too.

Funny thing is most esg investing is really weak in its goals. Some very loose companies get thrown into the esg bucket because they have too much capital to be deployed and not enough true Esg investments out there (which predominantly involves “E” there isn’t a ton of G and S is amorphous with the times).

My understanding is that the primary push in the investing world is the establishment of standard measurement tools, with required reporting by portfolio companies...attention and progress is the most important expectation by the investors for those companies not founded with an explicitly ESG model. That attention and progress may well be simply correlated with overall sound management practices, especially on a longer term horizon.

Been educating myself through a friend who’s an executive with this shop called Evestnet (offline conversations so more devoid of the public pitch) and best I can tell is most of S & G are things taught in business school, just most require a longer term orientation like you stated. Quantifying some of it will require loose definitions so at this point I’m completely of the opinion that there’s a major disconnect between fiduciary asset managers owning public equities, companies and investors. How can you demand sequential quarter growth into perpetuity effectively and then ask for long term planning because that’s what most of S&G involves-things where the impact is measured over years not quarters.

Basically, to me, esg investing is a construct by the street, based on demand from the investment community (whoever this is that made this push), it order to widen AM and placement fees out again as it’s not able to be stuffed in a quant filled algorithmic black box trading model that’s crushed fees and spreads in capital markets but without the substance to actually affect the changes it promotes.

Noble goal, unlikely to significantly change the world other than keep fees up in equities.

[MDlaxfan76]

More stupid, right wing pandering from this a-hole governor: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/politics ... index.html

Pretty sure that Larry Fink of Blackrock knows a heck of a lot more about investing that does Ron DeSantis. And he ain't gonna worry about Ron's $240 million of pension fund assets when he has $10 trillion to invest.

But note that DeSantis isn't playing stupid with his own money, it's the pensions of thousands of Florida's retired public servants, teachers, policemen, etc...

I wonder what Ron will say when their fund managers come back with DIS buy recommendations.

I miss typed. Billion not million, but same point. Not gonna worry about Ron, when bigger pension funds are requiring ESG, and performance is better too.

Funny thing is most esg investing is really weak in its goals. Some very loose companies get thrown into the esg bucket because they have too much capital to be deployed and not enough true Esg investments out there (which predominantly involves “E” there isn’t a ton of G and S is amorphous with the times).

My understanding is that the primary push in the investing world is the establishment of standard measurement tools, with required reporting by portfolio companies...attention and progress is the most important expectation by the investors for those companies not founded with an explicitly ESG model. That attention and progress may well be simply correlated with overall sound management practices, especially on a longer term horizon.

Been educating myself through a friend who’s an executive with this shop called Evestnet (offline conversations so more devoid of the public pitch) and best I can tell is most of S & G are things taught in business school, just most require a longer term orientation like you stated. Quantifying some of it will require loose definitions so at this point I’m completely of the opinion that there’s a major disconnect between fiduciary asset managers owning public equities, companies and investors. How can you demand sequential quarter growth into perpetuity effectively and then ask for long term planning because that’s what most of S&G involves-things where the impact is measured over years not quarters.

Basically, to me, esg investing is a construct by the street, based on demand from the investment community (whoever this is that made this push), it order to widen AM and placement fees out again as it’s not able to be stuffed in a quant filled algorithmic black box trading model that’s crushed fees and spreads in capital markets but without the substance to actually affect the changes it promotes.

Noble goal, unlikely to significantly change the world other than keep fees up in equities.

A mite cynical...

[HooDat]

There is indeed an entire industry that popped up to promote "standards" in what is and is not ESG. Some of it is well intended and helpful in weeding out greenwashing, most of it is consulting grift.

What is odd to me is that the E part of ESG is what gets all the attention.

The inclusion of "G" is not any kind of real change in the private world anyway. In some ways governance has been treated as or more important than return expectations - the right kind of governance has been a binary decision for PE.

The "S" part of ESG is ignored almost completely. The inside joke is all these "ESG Funds" pouring billions of dollars into renewables while the silica and rare earth metals they are made with are mined by child labor under horrendous working conditions (oh and leaving environmental wastelands in their wake)....

Basically, to me, esg investing is a construct by the street, based on demand from the investment community (whoever this is that made this push), it order to widen AM and placement fees out again as it’s not able to be stuffed in a quant filled algorithmic black box trading model that’s crushed fees and spreads in capital markets but without the substance to actually affect the changes it promotes.

Noble goal, unlikely to significantly change the world other than keep fees up in equities.

A mite cynical...

Are you cynical if you are correct? Because I agree 100% with Farfromgeneva on this one.

[MDlaxfan76]

There is indeed an entire industry that popped up to promote "standards" in what is and is not ESG. Some of it is well intended and helpful in weeding out greenwashing, most of it is consulting grift.

What is odd to me is that the E part of ESG is what gets all the attention.

The inclusion of "G" is not any kind of real change in the private world anyway. In some ways governance has been treated as or more important than return expectations - the right kind of governance has been a binary decision for PE.

The "S" part of ESG is ignored almost completely. The inside joke is all these "ESG Funds" pouring billions of dollars into renewables while the silica and rare earth metals they are made with are mined by child labor under horrendous working conditions (oh and leaving environmental wastelands in their wake)....

Basically, to me, esg investing is a construct by the street, based on demand from the investment community (whoever this is that made this push), it order to widen AM and placement fees out again as it’s not able to be stuffed in a quant filled algorithmic black box trading model that’s crushed fees and spreads in capital markets but without the substance to actually affect the changes it promotes.

Noble goal, unlikely to significantly change the world other than keep fees up in equities.

A mite cynical...

Are you cynical if you are correct? Because I agree 100% with Farfromgeneva on this one.

Let's just say, it's a mite absolutist...

I do think that an attention to measurement of values other than simply profits is a worthwhile pursuit, and can indeed "change the world". I also think they can improve upon actual long term profits as well...

But I'd say that the thinking in this realm is quite nascent...and the E, S, and G are really proxies for this effort. IMO, you are quite correct that focus on a single variable opens up all kinds of opportunity for undesirable externalities...as in your examples where sustainability is not being given adequate weight.

But there's a very strong movement in the engineering world in which sustainable systems are being explored as ultimately far better than prior, shorter term outcome design. That movement has tremendous promise, IMO.

And is likely to make for some really intriguing investment opportunities, disrupting old models.

[Farfromgeneva]

More stupid, right wing pandering from this a-hole governor: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/politics ... index.html

Pretty sure that Larry Fink of Blackrock knows a heck of a lot more about investing that does Ron DeSantis. And he ain't gonna worry about Ron's $240 million of pension fund assets when he has $10 trillion to invest.

But note that DeSantis isn't playing stupid with his own money, it's the pensions of thousands of Florida's retired public servants, teachers, policemen, etc...

I wonder what Ron will say when their fund managers come back with DIS buy recommendations.

I miss typed. Billion not million, but same point. Not gonna worry about Ron, when bigger pension funds are requiring ESG, and performance is better too.

Funny thing is most esg investing is really weak in its goals. Some very loose companies get thrown into the esg bucket because they have too much capital to be deployed and not enough true Esg investments out there (which predominantly involves “E” there isn’t a ton of G and S is amorphous with the times).

My understanding is that the primary push in the investing world is the establishment of standard measurement tools, with required reporting by portfolio companies...attention and progress is the most important expectation by the investors for those companies not founded with an explicitly ESG model. That attention and progress may well be simply correlated with overall sound management practices, especially on a longer term horizon.

Been educating myself through a friend who’s an executive with this shop called Evestnet (offline conversations so more devoid of the public pitch) and best I can tell is most of S & G are things taught in business school, just most require a longer term orientation like you stated. Quantifying some of it will require loose definitions so at this point I’m completely of the opinion that there’s a major disconnect between fiduciary asset managers owning public equities, companies and investors. How can you demand sequential quarter growth into perpetuity effectively and then ask for long term planning because that’s what most of S&G involves-things where the impact is measured over years not quarters.

Basically, to me, esg investing is a construct by the street, based on demand from the investment community (whoever this is that made this push), it order to widen AM and placement fees out again as it’s not able to be stuffed in a quant filled algorithmic black box trading model that’s crushed fees and spreads in capital markets but without the substance to actually affect the changes it promotes.

Noble goal, unlikely to significantly change the world other than keep fees up in equities.

A mite cynical...

I’ll defend a ton of honorable people in our profession (yours formerly anyways) but you’ve surely seen enough to know that life is all about incentives and their design.

It’s not necessarily intentional but the industry pushed to eliminate and reduces spreads and Bid/asks in every and every market but when they succeed they look to create new markets with monopoly profits, often through information/regulatory asymmetry/arbitrage. It shouldn’t be surprising that every pickoff trade of the public has moved “downmarket” further and further into retail and consumer pockets and further away for sophisticated institutional money.

[Farfromgeneva]

There is indeed an entire industry that popped up to promote "standards" in what is and is not ESG. Some of it is well intended and helpful in weeding out greenwashing, most of it is consulting grift.

What is odd to me is that the E part of ESG is what gets all the attention.

The inclusion of "G" is not any kind of real change in the private world anyway. In some ways governance has been treated as or more important than return expectations - the right kind of governance has been a binary decision for PE.

The "S" part of ESG is ignored almost completely. The inside joke is all these "ESG Funds" pouring billions of dollars into renewables while the silica and rare earth metals they are made with are mined by child labor under horrendous working conditions (oh and leaving environmental wastelands in their wake)....

Basically, to me, esg investing is a construct by the street, based on demand from the investment community (whoever this is that made this push), it order to widen AM and placement fees out again as it’s not able to be stuffed in a quant filled algorithmic black box trading model that’s crushed fees and spreads in capital markets but without the substance to actually affect the changes it promotes.

Noble goal, unlikely to significantly change the world other than keep fees up in equities.

A mite cynical...

Are you cynical if you are correct? Because I agree 100% with Farfromgeneva on this one.

I prefer “empirical skepticism”

[HooDat]

There is indeed an entire industry that popped up to promote "standards" in what is and is not ESG. Some of it is well intended and helpful in weeding out greenwashing, most of it is consulting grift.

What is odd to me is that the E part of ESG is what gets all the attention.

The inclusion of "G" is not any kind of real change in the private world anyway. In some ways governance has been treated as or more important than return expectations - the right kind of governance has been a binary decision for PE.

The "S" part of ESG is ignored almost completely. The inside joke is all these "ESG Funds" pouring billions of dollars into renewables while the silica and rare earth metals they are made with are mined by child labor under horrendous working conditions (oh and leaving environmental wastelands in their wake)....

Basically, to me, esg investing is a construct by the street, based on demand from the investment community (whoever this is that made this push), it order to widen AM and placement fees out again as it’s not able to be stuffed in a quant filled algorithmic black box trading model that’s crushed fees and spreads in capital markets but without the substance to actually affect the changes it promotes.

Noble goal, unlikely to significantly change the world other than keep fees up in equities.

A mite cynical...

Are you cynical if you are correct? Because I agree 100% with Farfromgeneva on this one.

I prefer “empirical skepticism”

[PizzaSnake]

More stupid, right wing pandering from this a-hole governor: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/politics ... index.html

Pretty sure that Larry Fink of Blackrock knows a heck of a lot more about investing that does Ron DeSantis. And he ain't gonna worry about Ron's $240 million of pension fund assets when he has $10 trillion to invest.

But note that DeSantis isn't playing stupid with his own money, it's the pensions of thousands of Florida's retired public servants, teachers, policemen, etc...

I wonder what Ron will say when their fund managers come back with DIS buy recommendations.

I miss typed. Billion not million, but same point. Not gonna worry about Ron, when bigger pension funds are requiring ESG, and performance is better too.

Funny thing is most esg investing is really weak in its goals. Some very loose companies get thrown into the esg bucket because they have too much capital to be deployed and not enough true Esg investments out there (which predominantly involves “E” there isn’t a ton of G and S is amorphous with the times).

My understanding is that the primary push in the investing world is the establishment of standard measurement tools, with required reporting by portfolio companies...attention and progress is the most important expectation by the investors for those companies not founded with an explicitly ESG model. That attention and progress may well be simply correlated with overall sound management practices, especially on a longer term horizon.

Been educating myself through a friend who’s an executive with this shop called Evestnet (offline conversations so more devoid of the public pitch) and best I can tell is most of S & G are things taught in business school, just most require a longer term orientation like you stated. Quantifying some of it will require loose definitions so at this point I’m completely of the opinion that there’s a major disconnect between fiduciary asset managers owning public equities, companies and investors. How can you demand sequential quarter growth into perpetuity effectively and then ask for long term planning because that’s what most of S&G involves-things where the impact is measured over years not quarters.

Basically, to me, esg investing is a construct by the street, based on demand from the investment community (whoever this is that made this push), it order to widen AM and placement fees out again as it’s not able to be stuffed in a quant filled algorithmic black box trading model that’s crushed fees and spreads in capital markets but without the substance to actually affect the changes it promotes.

Noble goal, unlikely to significantly change the world other than keep fees up in equities.

A mite cynical...

I’ll defend a ton of honorable people in our profession (yours formerly anyways) but you’ve surely seen enough to know that life is all about incentives and their design.

It’s not necessarily intentional but the industry pushed to eliminate and reduces spreads and Bid/asks in every and every market but when they succeed they look to create new markets with monopoly profits, often through information/regulatory asymmetry/arbitrage. It shouldn’t be surprising that every pickoff trade of the public has moved “downmarket” further and further into retail and consumer pockets and further away for sophisticated institutional money.

“you’ve surely seen enough to know that life is all about incentives and their design.”

This.

And how will the seemingly perverse incentives of our current version of “capitalism” square with the challenges humanity faces given the rate of climate change?

[HooDat]

“you’ve surely seen enough to know that life is all about incentives and their design.”

This.

And how will the seemingly perverse incentives of our current version of “capitalism” square with the challenges humanity faces given the rate of climate change?

poorly

[MDlaxfan76]

To be fair it is $200 BILLION not million.

Still, you are right, $200 BILLION is just a drop in the bucket for a swashbuckling international finance mogul like Fink. Heck everybody I know at Blackrock is just the most swell person I ever met....

When a company like Blackrock thinks that they have to spend money defending themselves against buying up all the residential real estate in the country in order to rent it back to you for more than you were paying in a mortgage - well, I think ol' Larry might actually care what people think.... and he is flat out lying about the performance of ESG funds. They are definitely NOT delivering economically. Doesn't mean that ESG funds are bad - it just means that Larry Fink is a liar.

As for DeSantis, not sure how anyone knows where he is putting his money. Surely, as Governor, he participates in the state pension?

yes, I'd corrected that keyboard error/brain freeze on another thread...200 B...but indeed drop in the bucket, and with California twice Florida's size demanding ESG, as are many other pension funds, DeSantis ain't scaring anybody.

I think the problem you are talking about is "ESG funds"...however, the ESG movement isn't about special dedicated funds, it's about all companies reporting on their ESG efforts and progress and these being part of the metrics investors can compare.

But returns, at least in the short term, typically are pretty comparable with the overall market.

https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/how- ... -performed

https://advisors.vanguard.com/insights/ ... ginvesting

But when energy stocks are super high (as they are right now), ESG doesn't look as hot...https://www.morningstar.com/articles/10 ... ugh-market

But anyone want to bet on carbon over the long term?

[jhu72]

It's liberals that are propagandizing K-12 education. This is so totally expected from the fascists in Florida.

[jhu72]

Florida back in the news for violating student privacy. Specifically the privacy of girls and LBGTQ individuals. This is not just a Florida problem, but the school system in computerizing access to school forms has made the problem much worse.

[jhu72]

DeSantis' phony baloney voter fraud charge dismissed in first court case.

[MDlaxfan76]

DeSantis' phony baloney voter fraud charge dismissed in first court case.

That's good, but I'd like to also see repudiation of the notion that these defendants actually knew that voting was illegal for them, and yet chose to break the law...the penalties for such a mistake are ridiculous.

Up one notch from such a mistake is a relative who sends in a vote for a relative thinking that's what they wanted...not ok, definitely need a consequence so that others won't be tempted, but this is really, really small fry stuff at worst.

Another notch up is to do so because they actually want to take a vote that wouldn't have been cast, or would have been cast for the opponent, and reverse it...or to phony "test" the system (pain in tookus and costly).

But the firepower should be on full bore for any large scale effort to reverse votes, cast phony votes, or intimidate voters...Exponentially more serious.

Extremely rare, but if/when it happens throw the book at all involved.

[jhu72]

DeSantis' phony baloney voter fraud charge dismissed in first court case.

That's good, but I'd like to also see repudiation of the notion that these defendants actually knew that voting was illegal for them, and yet chose to break the law...the penalties for such a mistake are ridiculous.

Up one notch from such a mistake is a relative who sends in a vote for a relative thinking that's what they wanted...not ok, definitely need a consequence so that others won't be tempted, but this is really, really small fry stuff at worst.

Another notch up is to do so because they actually want to take a vote that wouldn't have been cast, or would have been cast for the opponent, and reverse it...or to phony "test" the system (pain in tookus and costly).

But the firepower should be on full bore for any large scale effort to reverse votes, cast phony votes, or intimidate voters...Exponentially more serious.

Extremely rare, but if/when it happens throw the book at all involved.

Based on viewing the video of the "arrests" it is so clear multiple of these individuals were entrapped. These were people who were told by State of Florida officials that they could vote. The guys who set them up need to spend some time in a cell with Bubba. Some Florida official(s) knew what was going on.

For those you want to direct "firepower" at, I would prefer they spend time in a cell with Bubba as well.