Recruiting, the exact science

[Typical Lax Dad]

The NFL spends tens of millions on evaluating players uses State of the Art technology and techniques. The results are more like mediocre to middling for the investment. Expecting better from lacrosse is a reach.

Have you looked at high school to college football? Pros are trying to get that last 3-4% differential in improvement.

[InsiderRoll]

If anyone figures out the exact science on recruiting I’d encourage you to write a book… you’ll be a millionaire.

There’s a great book called 4th and Goal Everyday. It takes a deep dive into Alabama recruiting and philosophical beliefs that Saban has. The roots of his philosophy on recruiting started with his time as an assistant for Bill Parsells.

[Typical Lax Dad]

If anyone figures out the exact science on recruiting I’d encourage you to write a book… you’ll be a millionaire.

There’s a great book called 4th and Goal Everyday. It takes a deep dive into Alabama recruiting and philosophical beliefs that Saban has. The roots of his philosophy on recruiting started with his time as an assistant for Bill Parsells.

There is no exact science in recruiting….but there is one thing for sure, I don’t like kids playing down 2 years. People wonder why so many “5 Stars” don’t get much better in college…. If it’s relatively close, I am talking the younger player every time. Just saw the starting tailback for Wisconsin is an 18 year old SOPHOMORE…. I likey

[Farfromgeneva]

It is odd that this was started by a Rutgers fan holding them up as the example compared with a lot of other programs are better examples of outrecruiting the rankings. This goes back to at Laxpower when Denver & Loyola won titles a decade ago, Peter Baum hit the circuit and really back to the run Tambroni had from around 03 or so until he left for PSU at Cornell.

and obviously, as said on another thread, the b1g money got them to the final four. that, and i guess grass roots recruiting, culture and dedication. not transfers.

For a second I was like “wait what..”. Then realized…

[Henpecked]

It is odd that this was started by a Rutgers fan holding them up as the example compared with a lot of other programs are better examples of outrecruiting the rankings. This goes back to at Laxpower when Denver & Loyola won titles a decade ago, Peter Baum hit the circuit and really back to the run Tambroni had from around 03 or so until he left for PSU at Cornell.

This thread was started by the father of a Rutgers player who he named as an underrated recruit. He would know. His kid is awesome btw.

[Typical Lax Dad]

For the last 6-7 years that I have followed the recruiting experts and their rankings, schools like Duke, UVA, UNC, ND, Penn, Princeton, etc. get mostly 4 and 5 star recruits. A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal, cause many of these players were not 4 or 5 stars either. High level players like Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch and Ethan Rall were under recruited kids.

Being a recruiting guru is like being a weather forecaster.

Jules is a good example. After my son’s freshman year in college, he played a Summer tournament on a team with kids in his class from Brown, Hopkins and Rutgers. I asked him how it went and he said “the Rutgers players are better than the Hopkins players”… he was right in many ways. He said the Hopkins players were the worst. It stuck with me as years rolled on.

[HopFan16]

For the last 6-7 years that I have followed the recruiting experts and their rankings, schools like Duke, UVA, UNC, ND, Penn, Princeton, etc. get mostly 4 and 5 star recruits. A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal, cause many of these players were not 4 or 5 stars either. High level players like Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch and Ethan Rall were under recruited kids.

Being a recruiting guru is like being a weather forecaster.

Jules is a good example. After my son’s freshman year in college, he played a Summer tournament on a team with kids in his class from Brown, Hopkins and Rutgers. I asked him how it went and he said “the Rutgers players are better than the Hopkins players”… he was right in many ways. He said the Hopkins players were the worst. It stuck with me as years rolled on.

Well not right in that many ways: While your son was in school, Rutgers was 2-3 against Hopkins with 0 playoff bids while Hopkins made the quarterfinals twice with one Final Four appearance. Maybe he was playing with the wrong guys?

[Typical Lax Dad]

For the last 6-7 years that I have followed the recruiting experts and their rankings, schools like Duke, UVA, UNC, ND, Penn, Princeton, etc. get mostly 4 and 5 star recruits. A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal, cause many of these players were not 4 or 5 stars either. High level players like Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch and Ethan Rall were under recruited kids.

Being a recruiting guru is like being a weather forecaster.

Jules is a good example. After my son’s freshman year in college, he played a Summer tournament on a team with kids in his class from Brown, Hopkins and Rutgers. I asked him how it went and he said “the Rutgers players are better than the Hopkins players”… he was right in many ways. He said the Hopkins players were the worst. It stuck with me as years rolled on.

Well not right in that many ways: While your son was in school, Rutgers was 2-3 against Hopkins with 0 playoff bids while Hopkins made the quarterfinals twice with one Final Four appearance. Maybe he was playing with the wrong guys?

It was a comment about the kids in that class (coming off their freshman year). Shack and Joel didn’t play. I was surprised by the comment but it turned out not to be too far off. To be honest, I always felt that 2015 Hopkins team was a good team and it slipped each subsequent year. What do you think of the 2015 team versus the 2016 to 2019 teams? I don’t know what the record says it’s just my on the field impression that the 2015 team had better players and more depth. I saw Rutgers play Duke in 2012. Rutgers put up a fight but it was two different levels. Rutgers has closed the gap on a lot of programs. Times have changed.

[smoova]

There is no exact science in recruiting….but there is one thing for sure, I don’t like kids playing down 2 years. People wonder why so many “5 Stars” don’t get much better in college…. If it’s relatively close, I am talking the younger player every time. Just saw the starting tailback for Wisconsin is an 18 year old SOPHOMORE…. I likey

There it is!

[wgdsr]

If anyone figures out the exact science on recruiting I’d encourage you to write a book… you’ll be a millionaire.

There’s a great book called 4th and Goal Everyday. It takes a deep dive into Alabama recruiting and philosophical beliefs that Saban has. The roots of his philosophy on recruiting started with his time as an assistant for Bill Parsells.

There is no exact science in recruiting….but there is one thing for sure, I don’t like kids playing down 2 years. People wonder why so many “5 Stars” don’t get much better in college…. If it’s relatively close, I am talking the younger player every time. Just saw the starting tailback for Wisconsin is an 18 year old SOPHOMORE…. I likey

lacrosse is quite a ways from this going downhill to younger ages. if anything, it's worse now than ever, and maybe by a good amount.

the top hoops and football players want to get going as soon as possible. quicker they're in, sooner they're out

and in lax, it bleeds down to all levels as well.

[Typical Lax Dad]

If anyone figures out the exact science on recruiting I’d encourage you to write a book… you’ll be a millionaire.

There’s a great book called 4th and Goal Everyday. It takes a deep dive into Alabama recruiting and philosophical beliefs that Saban has. The roots of his philosophy on recruiting started with his time as an assistant for Bill Parsells.

There is no exact science in recruiting….but there is one thing for sure, I don’t like kids playing down 2 years. People wonder why so many “5 Stars” don’t get much better in college…. If it’s relatively close, I am talking the younger player every time. Just saw the starting tailback for Wisconsin is an 18 year old SOPHOMORE…. I likey

lacrosse is quite a ways from this going downhill to younger ages. if anything, it's worse now than ever, and maybe by a good amount.

the top hoops and football players want to get going as soon as possible. quicker they're in, sooner they're out

and in lax, it bleeds down to all levels as well.

Yep…. In basketball, you get good by playing older players…not younger. Lacrosse has indeed gotten worse. Some of these top 50 players were originally 2022s.

[keno in reno]

For the last 6-7 years that I have followed the recruiting experts and their rankings, schools like Duke, UVA, UNC, ND, Penn, Princeton, etc. get mostly 4 and 5 star recruits. A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal, cause many of these players were not 4 or 5 stars either. High level players like Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch and Ethan Rall were under recruited kids.

Being a recruiting guru is like being a weather forecaster.

First, just say this is another 'Rutgers is disrespected thread and its us against the world', rather than a recruiting science discussion.

Second, Brecht is a really good coach. Is that what you want to hear? He takes great high school players, mixes in great proven college transfers, and makes strong teams the last 2 years. To be fair, he's been there since 2012 and they sucked/mediocred for a decade until 2021, which does sort of coincide with the transfer era.

Third, your team is not gonna get full respect until they win something. No B1G titles. 2022 was great but they got destroyed in the B1G final and the final 4. This is no disrespect to the 2022 team, but Maryland fans can attest that your team will not be fully appreciated until they win at the highest level.

Fourth, there are other programs that have similar or better success relative to the recruiting rankings. Loyola, DenveR and Cornell have been consistently better. Yale has been way better, but maybe their high school recruiting has been higher. Penn State 2019 trumps anything Rutgers had done. Ohio State made the final in 2017. Lehigh, Albany and Richmond have been consistently strong a lot longer than Rutgers. Even Brown made it to overtime in the final 4 during that span.

So enjoy Coach Brecht. He is an excellent coach and the current players are great too. They're a fun team to watch and even root for, just not when fans think that there's some super-secret formula of undervalued excellence going on there like the football fans thought about 12 years ago.

[xxxxxxx]

If it wasn’t for the transfer portal Rutgers would sill be, well Rutgers. Transfer U

[RumorMill]

If it wasn’t for the transfer portal Rutgers would sill be, well Rutgers. Transfer U

Eh, I hope Rutgers continues to do well, transfer portal and all. What about our reigning champs? Wisnauskas, Khan, Murphy, Donville, all transfers. How many points did they contribute last season? What are you going to say if Georgetown and/or Notre Dame make the finals this spring? If you’re not maximizing the transfer portal as a coach right now you’re not doing your job. Counter point to that is the Ivy League who seem to be getting it done without that assistance.

[InsiderRoll]

I think people need to know there’s a complete difference in being a great recruiter vs a great evaluator. They are two different skill sets and not always possessed by everyone.

When it comes to rankings… for the most part Ty just talks to college coaches and club coaches and sees who they are going to recruit. That’s why they don’t come out until right at Sept. 1. So when he here’s that UVA and Duke are going to call them they get bumped up the list. It’s not a comprehensive ranking.

Lastly, great evaluators have the ability to project how a players game can grow and translate to college. Being a great HS player with talent doesn’t mean you’ll have a successful college career. Then there’s the hardest piece of all, it’s projecting which kids can buy into your program fully as and 18-23 year old and commit to being an elite player. With all of the distractions in college that come up, there isn’t a coach in the world that can project that with 100% certainty. Basically, the kids personality will play a major role in how they develop.

Oh, and it doesnt matter if UVA has 50 5 stars, only 10 can be on the field at a time, so if Rutgers can put together 10 guys that can play at that level, then they can compete.

[Asgot]

For the last 6-7 years that I have followed the recruiting experts and their rankings, schools like Duke, UVA, UNC, ND, Penn, Princeton, etc. get mostly 4 and 5 star recruits. A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal, cause many of these players were not 4 or 5 stars either. High level players like Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch and Ethan Rall were under recruited kids.

Being a recruiting guru is like being a weather forecaster.

I am not sure that RU will ever be a destination spot for top-ranked kids but being around recruiting for a while you notice that there are only a few people doing any sort of rankings and a massive number of kids go unranked. it does not mean that they are bad it just means that there are not a lot of people doing honest evaluations, partly because there are so many events but also because there is a fee-based evaluation system. I was told that Knobloch was going to be very good from a coach who played against him. Look at CJ Kirst Probably the best freshman in the country and it maybe matches his HS ranking but, Connor and Colin were not ranked very high if at all.

and, the transfer portal helped them a ton in 2021 they got both Kirsts and Dugenio in 2022 they got Bartolo, Jacoby, Cameron, Boswell and Apgar Thats half of the starting line-up for the FF team.

[longboard315]

For the last 6-7 years that I have followed the recruiting experts and their rankings, schools like Duke, UVA, UNC, ND, Penn, Princeton, etc. get mostly 4 and 5 star recruits. A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal, cause many of these players were not 4 or 5 stars either. High level players like Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch and Ethan Rall were under recruited kids.

Being a recruiting guru is like being a weather forecaster.

Jules is a good example. After my son’s freshman year in college, he played a Summer tournament on a team with kids in his class from Brown, Hopkins and Rutgers. I asked him how it went and he said “the Rutgers players are better than the Hopkins players”… he was right in many ways. He said the Hopkins players were the worst. It stuck with me as years rolled on.

Maybe a school like Rutgers searches for these intangibles (at least this would be the kind of traits I would look for in my recruits):

Give me a kid who is coachable and fully open to constructive criticism.
Give me a kid who thrives to improve each and every day.
Give me a kid who has a chip on their shoulder.
Give me a kid who would run through a brick wall for you.
Give me a kid who wants to outwork everyone, on and off the field, each and every day.
Give me a kid who has grit.
Give me a kid who doesn't have helicopter parents, and can stand on their own.
Give me a kid who could give 2 shits less about personal stats, accolades and awards.
Give me a kid who cares less about their own "cele" after scoring a goal, and more about "cele-ing" with their teammates after a goal.
Give me a kid who is awarded the game ball, who then awards that game ball to another teammate.
Give me a kid who picks up their teammates when they're down.
Give me a kid who wants to be the best teammate they can be.
And lastly, give me a kid who will mentor the younger/newer players on their team on all mentioned above, thus strengthening the foundation and building up, of the program.

[blue angels]

I think people need to know there’s a complete difference in being a great recruiter vs a great evaluator. They are two different skill sets and not always possessed by everyone.

When it comes to rankings… for the most part Ty just talks to college coaches and club coaches and sees who they are going to recruit. That’s why they don’t come out until right at Sept. 1. So when he here’s that UVA and Duke are going to call them they get bumped up the list. It’s not a comprehensive ranking.

Lastly, great evaluators have the ability to project how a players game can grow and translate to college. Being a great HS player with talent doesn’t mean you’ll have a successful college career. Then there’s the hardest piece of all, it’s projecting which kids can buy into your program fully as and 18-23 year old and commit to being an elite player. With all of the distractions in college that come up, there isn’t a coach in the world that can project that with 100% certainty. Basically, the kids personality will play a major role in how they develop.

Oh, and it doesnt matter if UVA has 50 5 stars, only 10 can be on the field at a time, so if Rutgers can put together 10 guys that can play at that level, then they can compete.

I hate to break it to you but Virginia’s list of the top players, and those of many other top Coaches, is certainly somewhat different from the Ty Xanders list. They may be similar for a handful of the very best players, but the top teams recruit to who they project has the most athleticism and potential in college. It is not an exact science and some work out but many stars don’t. That may not always include the same players stuffing the stat sheet in Summer play.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I think people need to know there’s a complete difference in being a great recruiter vs a great evaluator. They are two different skill sets and not always possessed by everyone.

When it comes to rankings… for the most part Ty just talks to college coaches and club coaches and sees who they are going to recruit. That’s why they don’t come out until right at Sept. 1. So when he here’s that UVA and Duke are going to call them they get bumped up the list. It’s not a comprehensive ranking.

Lastly, great evaluators have the ability to project how a players game can grow and translate to college. Being a great HS player with talent doesn’t mean you’ll have a successful college career. Then there’s the hardest piece of all, it’s projecting which kids can buy into your program fully as and 18-23 year old and commit to being an elite player. With all of the distractions in college that come up, there isn’t a coach in the world that can project that with 100% certainty. Basically, the kids personality will play a major role in how they develop.

Oh, and it doesnt matter if UVA has 50 5 stars, only 10 can be on the field at a time, so if Rutgers can put together 10 guys that can play at that level, then they can compete.

I hate to break it to you but Virginia’s list of the top players, and those of many other top Coaches, is certainly somewhat different from the Ty Xanders list. They may be similar for a handful of the very best players, but the top teams recruit to who they project has the most athleticism and potential in college. It is not an exact science and some work out but many stars don’t. That may not always include the same players stuffing the stat sheet in Summer play.

Yes. I had this conversation with a young player that hasn’t shown up on a list or an all star game. He was the first call for 2 schools. Committed now and he heard from two or three top 15 programs. Good player. Those lists are virtually meaningless. Some good players up and down it is about all that you can gather. The order is meaningless.

[InsiderRoll]

I think people need to know there’s a complete difference in being a great recruiter vs a great evaluator. They are two different skill sets and not always possessed by everyone.

When it comes to rankings… for the most part Ty just talks to college coaches and club coaches and sees who they are going to recruit. That’s why they don’t come out until right at Sept. 1. So when he here’s that UVA and Duke are going to call them they get bumped up the list. It’s not a comprehensive ranking.

Lastly, great evaluators have the ability to project how a players game can grow and translate to college. Being a great HS player with talent doesn’t mean you’ll have a successful college career. Then there’s the hardest piece of all, it’s projecting which kids can buy into your program fully as and 18-23 year old and commit to being an elite player. With all of the distractions in college that come up, there isn’t a coach in the world that can project that with 100% certainty. Basically, the kids personality will play a major role in how they develop.

Oh, and it doesnt matter if UVA has 50 5 stars, only 10 can be on the field at a time, so if Rutgers can put together 10 guys that can play at that level, then they can compete.

I hate to break it to you but Virginia’s list of the top players, and those of many other top Coaches, is certainly somewhat different from the Ty Xanders list. They may be similar for a handful of the very best players, but the top teams recruit to who they project has the most athleticism and potential in college. It is not an exact science and some work out but many stars don’t. That may not always include the same players stuffing the stat sheet in Summer play.

We’re saying the same thing. I didn’t say it was a carbon copy. I said Ty does his research with club coaches and can to a certain degree line up his evaluations with projected calls. If there’s a kid that he thought was pretty good and he learns that ACC schools like him, he shoots up the “rankings”.

Is he going to know every kid that top schools are reaching out to… no. I’m well aware that coaches don’t care at all about rankings.