media matters

[Typical Lax Dad]

The girl could be wrong and the folks in the area could be wrong. I was wrong about an entire cheering section. I can see someone being wrong about one voice in the crowd….the player as well as a few of the folks in the stands.

The Brain Is Not a VCR

Eyewitness testimony is powerful because most people believe that the human mind is able to record and store every detail of the events we experience. They believe that these permanently recorded memories, thoughts, and impressions can be retrieved, even from realms of the forgotten and the subconscious. In fact, says psychologist Lofthus, "human memory is far from perfect or permanent and forgetfulness is a fact of life."

Most scientists agree that memories are formed when neurons form connections between brain cells. According to James McClelland, a Pittsburgh brain researcher, "Each neuron represents a little bit of memory," just like a computer holds information in bytes of electronic coding. These bits of information are channeled from the eyes, ears, and other senses to various parts of the brain. Here, the connected neurons are stored in cerebral compartments that can hold as much as 1 quintillion separate memory bits.

These storage compartments are constantly being rearranged by a part of the brain called the limbic system. Like a neurological file clerk, the limbic system tries to "make sense" out of our memories by adding new data and tossing out old or confusing information. As Lofthus describes this process, "Every time we recall an event, we must reconstruct the memory and with each recollection the memory may be changed...Thus our representation of the past takes on a living, shifting reality."

Our brains may hold on to certain peak memories. But between the peaks, our brains fill in the gaps. Dr. Marcel Mesulam, professor of neurology and psychiatry at Northwestern University observes that "your brain may be re-creating something very vivid. But that doesn't prove that what was being re-created was true."

[DMac]

All of her teammates, coaches, officials, and security personnel have said they heard nothing of the racial slurs being hollered out during the entirety of the match which escalated to threatening towards the end of the match. Is that to be considered to be non evidence too, MDlax?
Now that you boys have educated me on the definition of lying (your effort in trying to muddy the waters and unnecessarily complicate things is in vain) how 'bout we tackle the word denial?

[MDlaxfan76]

The girl could be wrong and the folks in the area could be wrong. I was wrong about an entire cheering section. I can see someone being wrong about one voice in the crowd….the player as well as a few of the folks in the stands.

The Brain Is Not a VCR

Eyewitness testimony is powerful because most people believe that the human mind is able to record and store every detail of the events we experience. They believe that these permanently recorded memories, thoughts, and impressions can be retrieved, even from realms of the forgotten and the subconscious. In fact, says psychologist Lofthus, "human memory is far from perfect or permanent and forgetfulness is a fact of life."

Most scientists agree that memories are formed when neurons form connections between brain cells. According to James McClelland, a Pittsburgh brain researcher, "Each neuron represents a little bit of memory," just like a computer holds information in bytes of electronic coding. These bits of information are channeled from the eyes, ears, and other senses to various parts of the brain. Here, the connected neurons are stored in cerebral compartments that can hold as much as 1 quintillion separate memory bits.

These storage compartments are constantly being rearranged by a part of the brain called the limbic system. Like a neurological file clerk, the limbic system tries to "make sense" out of our memories by adding new data and tossing out old or confusing information. As Lofthus describes this process, "Every time we recall an event, we must reconstruct the memory and with each recollection the memory may be changed...Thus our representation of the past takes on a living, shifting reality."

Our brains may hold on to certain peak memories. But between the peaks, our brains fill in the gaps. Dr. Marcel Mesulam, professor of neurology and psychiatry at Northwestern University observes that "your brain may be re-creating something very vivid. But that doesn't prove that what was being re-created was true."

Yup, my wife, her mother, and I were walking into our home in the South End of Boston, me in the lead to open the door when a man, who we believe we'd moments earlier passed on the sidewalk maybe 30 yards earlier, put his knee into my wife's back and took her purse. In my hard shoes and suit (this was the '80's!) I took off in pursuit...he was in sneakers...he swerved down an alley when a car tried to cut him off, and I continued down the alley, though losing ground, he came back onto Columbus Avenue and kept running...me still in pursuit...a couple of guys going up their stoop blew a police whistle and he dropped the bag and turned the corner...police were there a couple of minutes later. I got in with police to see if we could catch up and find him, to no avail, then returned to where my wife and her mother were being interviewed...we'd each seen the guy...

Each of us described him differently. white, African American, Hispanic...mustache, no mustache...dark jacket, blue jacket, brown jacket...

Adrenaline does funny things...

[Typical Lax Dad]

All of her teammates, coaches, officials, and security personnel have said they heard nothing of the racial slurs being hollered out during the entirety of the match which escalated to threatening towards the end of the match. Is that to be considered to be non evidence too, MDlax?
Now that you boys have educated me on the definition of lying (your effort in trying to muddy the waters and unnecessarily complicate things is in vain) how 'bout we tackle the word denial?

She may have been wrong. Were did I say she was right? You can scroll back through the days of posts? You didn’t answer my question? Why so spooled up? There is no wrong answer. I am just wondering because I don’t recall the fervor in other instances. Maybe I wasn’t paying attention before but I will be now.

[MDlaxfan76]

All of her teammates, coaches, officials, and security personnel have said they heard nothing of the racial slurs being hollered out during the entirety of the match which escalated to threatening towards the end of the match. Is that to be considered to be non evidence too, MDlax?
Now that you boys have educated me on the definition of lying (your effort in trying to muddy the waters and unnecessarily complicate things is in vain) how 'bout we tackle the word denial?

I explained that the serving player was way, way closer to the crowd when she heard it than any of her teammates, much less coaches or opponents.

Have you never played in front of a loud crowd with heckling?
You hear very little unless you are really close, and even then generally tune most out.

She did not say that it was the entirety of the match. She thought she heard it the first time. The second time it was clearer. She reported it. Didn't hear that slur again. (Police went into the stands) But when they came back to that side the tone had escalated, though not the racial slurs...more intense heckling of individual players (not just her).

[DMac]

I've been plenty of riled up plenty of times, TLD, I guess you just haven't been paying close enough attention.

As for the adrenaline does funny things, I guess that answers why no one else in the place saw or heard any of
what the heckled volleyball player says she saw and heard. That settles that.

Got a wager for you boys, I'd bet that not one of you watched the video of the game being discussed I posted earlier in this thread.
Any takers?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I've been plenty of riled up plenty of times, TLD, I guess you just haven't been paying close enough attention.

As for the adrenaline does funny things, I guess that answers why no one else in the place saw or heard any of
what the heckled volleyball player says she saw and heard. That settles that.

Got a wager for you boys, I'd bet that not one of you watched the video of the game being discussed I posted earlier in this thread.
Any takers?

I was talking about in the context of stories similar to the volleyball story being wrong….I do recall the animation regarding Native Americans and whether what is characterized as a slur is meaningful to the population as a whole…the boyz on the rezi don’t always care. You were clear about that. I may be detecting a theme, no?

[DMac]

All of her teammates, coaches, officials, and security personnel have said they heard nothing of the racial slurs being hollered out during the entirety of the match which escalated to threatening towards the end of the match. Is that to be considered to be non evidence too, MDlax?
Now that you boys have educated me on the definition of lying (your effort in trying to muddy the waters and unnecessarily complicate things is in vain) how 'bout we tackle the word denial?

I explained that the serving player was way, way closer to the crowd when she heard it than any of her teammates, much less coaches or opponents.

Have you never played in front of a loud crowd with heckling?
You hear very little unless you are really close, and even then generally tune most out.

She did not say that it was the entirety of the match. She thought she heard it the first time. The second time it was clearer. She reported it. Didn't hear that slur again. (Police went into the stands) But when they came back to that side the tone had escalated, though not the racial slurs...more intense heckling of individual players (not just her).

All done with you, MDlax, your mind is made up and you don't want to deal the facts.
Watch this and see what SHE says....not quite the same as what you say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX6xy1Yc_Ck

[youthathletics]

Gaslighting the hell outta dmac.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://filmlifestyle.com/rashomon-effect/

Yeah I need to show my kids it soon. (The movie)

Of course I brought it up in that it’s more related to how and why rather than what whereas in this case we’re discussing a what (did happen). Hence I was suggesting that since were not debating the how or why but rather the what that there’s some pretty straightforward facts on events where one has to declare one correct in two opposing positions.

Either it did happen or it didn’t. Can it truly be a mistake in mishearing or does it have to be a lie? There’s this nebulous area of overlap of when is it ok to accept someone’s actions based on their perceptions as it relates to the “common man” standard. There could be a belief they heard it but is that reasonable even in the context of the persons background and history? If it’s unreasonable it sort of falls back into the lie category when it’s made public or used for any purpose rather than internalizing.

Next step is to figure out why she made a “false” claim to establish intent and other considerations to fully evaluate who is what ultimately.

So maybe she’s lying. Maybe she’s not. We won’t collectively go through the process in describing anyways so we will never know.

I had a debate about this. Parent promises to take kid on vacation. Father becomes ill or loses his job and can’t take vacation. Did he lie?

Well that’s the environment changing around the person. Is that the same? I don’t know. In your case the statement/claim was made projecting into the future that would be constant or consistent enough to make that plan. In this case here it’s being alleged after the incident. So not sure they are apples to apples.

The one they teach in business law in grad school Goes back to some law club at Duke: trucker drives down street and drives over empty bag blowing in street comes back later and same bag in street so he drives over it but in the meantime a baby crawled into it. Is he guilty of anything?

Lying: 1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive She was lying when she said she didn't break the vase. He lied about his past experience.

I was using the example as a stand alone case.

In this volleyball case, getting something wrong is not the same as lying. I would need to see some evidence of the intent to deceive. The lack of evidence does not always equal intent to deceive. However, intent to deceive is often accompanied by a lack of evidence. DMAC and a few others seem to believe both are the same.

Experience leads me to give the girl the benefit of the doubt. DMAC has her guilty of lying. He has no proof or evidence of a lie (as the word is defined). He is cooking that goose.

Being wrong doesn’t mean guilty of lying. Also, having been in a similar situation where I was completely wrong, I have come to realize people make mistakes. This is why eye witness testimony is not very reliable.

Agree generally and that was my point earlier that we will never know her intent so can't say for sure.

But intent is based on beliefs so that's where I bring in this common man standard. If her belief in saying something is so unreasonable as to not pass a general smell test (particulary to folks who could drieclty empathize with her experience) then even if she believed it, it's still kind of a lie in the sense that she's attempting to impose her unrealistic belief onto everyone else. If one rejects a generally agreed standard and attempts to impose their own standard/belief thats outside the norm (in math call it two standard deviations) it kind of is an intent to deceive.

So what I'm saying it there's a weird area where she may be so impacted by whatever in her life that she's hearing things that aren't always said or done. That would be a post determination of act evaulation of degree or level of guilt as to mitigating circumstances to her behavior but it would still be lying even if you believe it to be true - see Trump. Hence in some cases being so wrong as to be out of touch and rejecting what is going on around you is akin to lying.

I agree though we can't call her a liar but I sure think she should provide a lot more detail and context at this stage.

[Farfromgeneva]

The girl could be wrong and the folks in the area could be wrong. I was wrong about an entire cheering section. I can see someone being wrong about one voice in the crowd….the player as well as a few of the folks in the stands.

The Brain Is Not a VCR

Eyewitness testimony is powerful because most people believe that the human mind is able to record and store every detail of the events we experience. They believe that these permanently recorded memories, thoughts, and impressions can be retrieved, even from realms of the forgotten and the subconscious. In fact, says psychologist Lofthus, "human memory is far from perfect or permanent and forgetfulness is a fact of life."

Most scientists agree that memories are formed when neurons form connections between brain cells. According to James McClelland, a Pittsburgh brain researcher, "Each neuron represents a little bit of memory," just like a computer holds information in bytes of electronic coding. These bits of information are channeled from the eyes, ears, and other senses to various parts of the brain. Here, the connected neurons are stored in cerebral compartments that can hold as much as 1 quintillion separate memory bits.

These storage compartments are constantly being rearranged by a part of the brain called the limbic system. Like a neurological file clerk, the limbic system tries to "make sense" out of our memories by adding new data and tossing out old or confusing information. As Lofthus describes this process, "Every time we recall an event, we must reconstruct the memory and with each recollection the memory may be changed...Thus our representation of the past takes on a living, shifting reality."

Our brains may hold on to certain peak memories. But between the peaks, our brains fill in the gaps. Dr. Marcel Mesulam, professor of neurology and psychiatry at Northwestern University observes that "your brain may be re-creating something very vivid. But that doesn't prove that what was being re-created was true."

Yup, my wife, her mother, and I were walking into our home in the South End of Boston, me in the lead to open the door when a man, who we believe we'd moments earlier passed on the sidewalk maybe 30 yards earlier, put his knee into my wife's back and took her purse. In my hard shoes and suit (this was the '80's!) I took off in pursuit...he was in sneakers...he swerved down an alley when a car tried to cut him off, and I continued down the alley, though losing ground, he came back onto Columbus Avenue and kept running...me still in pursuit...a couple of guys going up their stoop blew a police whistle and he dropped the bag and turned the corner...police were there a couple of minutes later. I got in with police to see if we could catch up and find him, to no avail, then returned to where my wife and her mother were being interviewed...we'd each seen the guy...

Each of us described him differently. white, African American, Hispanic...mustache, no mustache...dark jacket, blue jacket, brown jacket...

Adrenaline does funny things...

https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/60 ... -rican-guy

[MDlaxfan76]

All of her teammates, coaches, officials, and security personnel have said they heard nothing of the racial slurs being hollered out during the entirety of the match which escalated to threatening towards the end of the match. Is that to be considered to be non evidence too, MDlax?
Now that you boys have educated me on the definition of lying (your effort in trying to muddy the waters and unnecessarily complicate things is in vain) how 'bout we tackle the word denial?

I explained that the serving player was way, way closer to the crowd when she heard it than any of her teammates, much less coaches or opponents.

Have you never played in front of a loud crowd with heckling?
You hear very little unless you are really close, and even then generally tune most out.

She did not say that it was the entirety of the match. She thought she heard it the first time. The second time it was clearer. She reported it. Didn't hear that slur again. (Police went into the stands) But when they came back to that side the tone had escalated, though not the racial slurs...more intense heckling of individual players (not just her).

All done with you, MDlax, your mind is made up and you don't want to deal the facts.
Watch this and see what SHE says....not quite the same as what you say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX6xy1Yc_Ck

yup, that statement goes significantly further than the interview.
Her interview was quite reasonable IMO and specific.
This statement makes it sound like it was a continuous problem versus twice and then threatening tone (but not specifically racial) as she indicated in the interview you posted (along with the a-hole's commentary).
I suspect she means that the issue went on for the entirety of the match, but the implication that the specific slurs were happening should be addressed by her better...again, IMO.

The "watch your back" comment on way to bus certainly sounds threatening, but not racist.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The West Coast Conference has released a statement regarding the Aug. 26 volleyball match in which a Duke player said she heard racial slurs coming from the student section during a Blue Devils' road game at BYU. The conference said their office worked closely with the school to examine all the information and that they believe BYU acted appropriately during the match and conducted "a transparent and thorough investigation."

This came less than a week after the BYU athletics department released its own statement. On Sept. 9, BYU said they had completed the investigation and did not find any evidence that anything inappropriate was shouted, but that they will continue to welcome any new evidence. The WCC was careful to explain what finding no evidence means for both parties.

"BYU's inability to locate perpetrator(s) does not mean the remarks were not said and does not mean BYU did not put the appropriate recourses, time, and effort into their investigation," read the statement.

Seems like the conference pretty much agrees with rational thought…..Lack of evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen or that the girl is “lying”. One of those things. A lot worse things take place everyday and nobody here is riled up.

[DMac]

BYU's statement is written, checked for political correctness, checked again for political correctness, then walked down Egg Shell Ave to be delivered to the media distribution office. I don't have to be politically correct or walk on egg shells, all I have to do is deal with the facts at hand.
As for the rational thinkers, I don't see that as diverting the discussion to the definition of liars, the flow of adrenaline, or that it still might have been despite all contradictory evidence. Just my rational thinking humble opinion.
Oh, and rational thinking people don't cancel ballgames and tarnish school's reputations unless there's a valid reason to.
Jus' sayin'.

[Typical Lax Dad]

BYU's statement is written, checked for political correctness, checked again for political correctness, then walked down Egg Shell Ave to be delivered to the media distribution office. I don't have to be politically correct or walk on egg shells, all I have to do is deal with the facts at hand.
As for the rational thinkers, I don't see that as diverting the discussion to the definition of liars, the flow of adrenaline, or that it still might have been despite all contradictory evidence. Just my rational thinking humble opinion.
Oh, and rational thinking people don't cancel ballgames and tarnish school's reputations unless there's a valid reason to.
Jus' sayin'.

Now it’s PC! how about they could not prove or disprove the accusations. Let’s see if your boy Ben Shapiro and Stephen from the YouTube video covers it.
BTW, Dawn Staley should not pull her team. I don’t agree with the decision. I didn’t agree with it from the outset.

[DMac]

Here, you can see for yourself. Don't come back and tell me you can't stomach Stephan A., suck it up for the first 15 seconds of this video (and this is what has me riled up, false accusations that fuel the fire of racism). Then go to the 4:40 mark and listen for a minute or so. Suck it up for a minute and a half or so to see what the humbled Stephan A. has to say after the released BYU statement and lack of any evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWM7hYMkOx4

[Typical Lax Dad]

Here, you can see for yourself. Don't come back and tell me you can't stomach Stephan A., suck it up for the first 15 seconds of this video (and this is what has me riled up, false accusations that fuel the fire of racism). Then go to the 4:40 mark and listen for a minute or so. Suck it up for a minute and a half or so to see what Stephan A. has to say after the released BYU statement and lack of any evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWM7hYMkOx4

I don’t like Steven A. Smith. He’s a clown. Kwame was right about him and Becky with the good hair.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-couga ... stigation/

False Accusations has you riled up??!! Sense when!! or do you pick and choose which false accusations?

[DMac]

Did you watch it?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Did you watch it?

No. He’s a clown basing his comments on next to nothing…why should I care what he or that Stephen fellow who’s YouTube you linked have to say? What the investigators turned up is good enough for me. The guy tossed out wasn’t the offender, if there was one, and the gal could have been mistaken or the investigation could not determine if anything happened. One of those things. Good enough for me…why isn’t that good enough for you? You got skin in the game?

[DMac]

Pretty much what I expected, now tell me more about rational thinkers.