Progressive Ideology

[dislaxxic]

Progressive ideology.....kill off those who fall in to the drug trap? https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/sta ... 6bwwjqYwvQ

Willful and largely ignorant mis-information. What would a "conservative" do to mitigate this kind of persistent problem? Probably along the lines of: throw them all in (a private) jail and throw away the key...

There are pages and pages of successful "governing" details in this thread describing all the GREAT THINGS progressive governing philosophy is doing these days, and one of our erstwhile conservatives lowers himself again to a blame game in a culture war place.

It's sad and unending, really. When there is a total lack of a concept of actually governing a large, diverse country like ours, conservatives are really completely bankrupt.

The Unexpected Ways Joe Biden Is Ushering In a New Economic Paradigm

At its most basic, this new paradigm reflects a theory about how economies grow: not from the top down, as Ronald Reagan’s supply-side economics suggested, but from the middle out, through investments in the middle class and the institutions that support it, such as strong unions, good public schools, affordable child- and health care and a robust social safety net. But beyond a set of policy prescriptions, this paradigm also entails an updated — if not entirely new — way of thinking about fundamental economic questions: What motivates economic agents? What is the proper relationship between economic growth and economic inequality? How does economic policy relate to foundational American ideals like democracy and freedom?

..

[MDlaxfan76]

Governing works:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/11/us/p ... d=tw-share

"For a generation or more, America’s high levels of child poverty set it apart from other rich nations, leaving millions of young people lacking support as basic as food and shelter amid mounting evidence that early hardship leaves children poorer, sicker and less educated as adults.

But with little public notice and accelerating speed, America’s children have become much less poor.

Interesting, does this imply that the middle class is NOT shrinking and actually growing?

The latest census numbers indicate what income ranges constitute the middle class (as of 2020). This will depend on family size. For a single individual, a middle-class income ranges from $30,000 - $90,000 per year. For a couple it starts at $42,430 up to $127,300; for a family of three, $60,000 - $180,000; and four $67,100 - $201,270.

Does it?

From the article:

KEY TAKEAWAYS
The middle class constitutes 50% of the U.S. population as of 2021, which is quite a bit smaller than it has been in nearly half a century.
Historically, the middle class has been the engine of American economic growth and prosperity.
The share of income captured by the middle class fell from 62% in 1970 to 43% in 2014.
The middle class is shrinking due to an increase in population at the extreme bottom and top of the economic spectrum.
The median income in the U.S. was $65,000 in 2020 (regardless of household size).

[youthathletics]

Governing works:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/11/us/p ... d=tw-share

"For a generation or more, America’s high levels of child poverty set it apart from other rich nations, leaving millions of young people lacking support as basic as food and shelter amid mounting evidence that early hardship leaves children poorer, sicker and less educated as adults.

But with little public notice and accelerating speed, America’s children have become much less poor.

Interesting, does this imply that the middle class is NOT shrinking and actually growing?

The latest census numbers indicate what income ranges constitute the middle class (as of 2020). This will depend on family size. For a single individual, a middle-class income ranges from $30,000 - $90,000 per year. For a couple it starts at $42,430 up to $127,300; for a family of three, $60,000 - $180,000; and four $67,100 - $201,270.

Does it?

From the article:

KEY TAKEAWAYS
The middle class constitutes 50% of the U.S. population as of 2021, which is quite a bit smaller than it has been in nearly half a century.
Historically, the middle class has been the engine of American economic growth and prosperity.
The share of income captured by the middle class fell from 62% in 1970 to 43% in 2014.
The middle class is shrinking due to an increase in population at the extreme bottom and top of the economic spectrum.
The median income in the U.S. was $65,000 in 2020 (regardless of household size).

You are backing up my initial inquiry. Read closer....a single income middle class parent ranges from 30-90k, kids or not. So a 15/hr 40 hour week equals ~30k, which is middle class, no?

[MDlaxfan76]

Governing works:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/11/us/p ... d=tw-share

"For a generation or more, America’s high levels of child poverty set it apart from other rich nations, leaving millions of young people lacking support as basic as food and shelter amid mounting evidence that early hardship leaves children poorer, sicker and less educated as adults.

But with little public notice and accelerating speed, America’s children have become much less poor.

Interesting, does this imply that the middle class is NOT shrinking and actually growing?

The latest census numbers indicate what income ranges constitute the middle class (as of 2020). This will depend on family size. For a single individual, a middle-class income ranges from $30,000 - $90,000 per year. For a couple it starts at $42,430 up to $127,300; for a family of three, $60,000 - $180,000; and four $67,100 - $201,270.

Does it?

From the article:

KEY TAKEAWAYS
The middle class constitutes 50% of the U.S. population as of 2021, which is quite a bit smaller than it has been in nearly half a century.
Historically, the middle class has been the engine of American economic growth and prosperity.
The share of income captured by the middle class fell from 62% in 1970 to 43% in 2014.
The middle class is shrinking due to an increase in population at the extreme bottom and top of the economic spectrum.
The median income in the U.S. was $65,000 in 2020 (regardless of household size).

You are backing up my initial inquiry. Read closer....a single income middle class parent ranges from 30-90k, kids or not. So a 15/hr 40 hour week equals ~30k, which is middle class, no?

yes, single person bottom of middle class is $30k...top $90k. So, a mom with 2 kids earning $30k certainly isn't living what you and I might consider a "middle class lifestyle". No picket fence.

Despite that being where they draw the line, more people are falling below that line than back 30 and 50 years ago. Middle class is shrinking.

A single person, no kids, is getting by on that amount, but little to no savings possible. More people, as a percentage of population, are below middle class.

The article also makes the point that more people are earning above the middle class thresholds, though that percentage growth is less. We also know that the gap between wealthy and poor has grown astronomically over the past 50 years.

While most of my family, including the next generation, are likely to be the lucky above middle class set, I think this gap is a very serious problem needing solutions.

EDIT: just read even closer. It says the difference between a couple and a family of three introduces an additional $18K to be middle class...that would also mean a mom with one kid would need to be $48k...The second kids adds another $7.1K.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Governing works:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/11/us/p ... d=tw-share

"For a generation or more, America’s high levels of child poverty set it apart from other rich nations, leaving millions of young people lacking support as basic as food and shelter amid mounting evidence that early hardship leaves children poorer, sicker and less educated as adults.

But with little public notice and accelerating speed, America’s children have become much less poor.

Interesting, does this imply that the middle class is NOT shrinking and actually growing?

The latest census numbers indicate what income ranges constitute the middle class (as of 2020). This will depend on family size. For a single individual, a middle-class income ranges from $30,000 - $90,000 per year. For a couple it starts at $42,430 up to $127,300; for a family of three, $60,000 - $180,000; and four $67,100 - $201,270.

Does it?

From the article:

KEY TAKEAWAYS
The middle class constitutes 50% of the U.S. population as of 2021, which is quite a bit smaller than it has been in nearly half a century.
Historically, the middle class has been the engine of American economic growth and prosperity.
The share of income captured by the middle class fell from 62% in 1970 to 43% in 2014.
The middle class is shrinking due to an increase in population at the extreme bottom and top of the economic spectrum.
The median income in the U.S. was $65,000 in 2020 (regardless of household size).

You are backing up my initial inquiry. Read closer....a single income middle class parent ranges from 30-90k, kids or not. So a 15/hr 40 hour week equals ~30k, which is middle class, no?

I don't think that $30,000 per year pre-tax can be considered "middle class." Poverty thresholds are, I think, pretty unrealistic. See here: https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-eco ... guidelines

I don't know how a family of four subsists on $26,000.

I thought the more important message was that there are problems in modern society that cannot be dealt with by relying on markets, and that therefore require government intervention. Although never as one mind, the two parties actually roughly tackled this issue, tried some things out, and can look back on what appears to be some success. Party affiliation needs to give way to trying solutions. Governing can be good. And because of the unprecedented level today of party loyalty, we are seeing very little of this sort of experimentation from government.

[MDlaxfan76]

And more people are falling below that low "middle class" line as a percentage of our population.

[Farfromgeneva]

Progressive ideology.....kill off those who fall in to the drug trap? https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/sta ... 6bwwjqYwvQ

That’s your buddy cradles philosophy.

[Farfromgeneva]

Progressive ideology.....kill off those who fall in to the drug trap? https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/sta ... 6bwwjqYwvQ

Willful and largely ignorant mis-information. What would a "conservative" do to mitigate this kind of persistent problem? Probably along the lines of: throw them all in (a private) jail and throw away the key...

There are pages and pages of successful "governing" details in this thread describing all the GREAT THINGS progressive governing philosophy is doing these days, and one of our erstwhile conservatives lowers himself again to a blame game in a culture war place.

It's sad and unending, really. When there is a total lack of a concept of actually governing a large, diverse country like ours, conservatives are really completely bankrupt.

The Unexpected Ways Joe Biden Is Ushering In a New Economic Paradigm

At its most basic, this new paradigm reflects a theory about how economies grow: not from the top down, as Ronald Reagan’s supply-side economics suggested, but from the middle out, through investments in the middle class and the institutions that support it, such as strong unions, good public schools, affordable child- and health care and a robust social safety net. But beyond a set of policy prescriptions, this paradigm also entails an updated — if not entirely new — way of thinking about fundamental economic questions: What motivates economic agents? What is the proper relationship between economic growth and economic inequality? How does economic policy relate to foundational American ideals like democracy and freedom?

..

This is wrong in the use of paradigm. It’s a different approach within the same paradigm. And the use of that word is really important in this discussion so it completely blows it there IMO.

People don’t understand they’re all arguing for different approaches within the same paradigm in these arguments/discussions. That’s the irony of this all.

And by the way, with most organic entities the middle comes naturally it can’t be forced. I’ll defer to scientists and biologists to articulate but my understanding is most things don’t evolve middle out. If that’s generally correct then this is problematic because we can’t control this country totally so the outcomes have to form “naturally”.

[Farfromgeneva]

Governing works:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/11/us/p ... d=tw-share

"For a generation or more, America’s high levels of child poverty set it apart from other rich nations, leaving millions of young people lacking support as basic as food and shelter amid mounting evidence that early hardship leaves children poorer, sicker and less educated as adults.

But with little public notice and accelerating speed, America’s children have become much less poor.

Interesting, does this imply that the middle class is NOT shrinking and actually growing?

The latest census numbers indicate what income ranges constitute the middle class (as of 2020). This will depend on family size. For a single individual, a middle-class income ranges from $30,000 - $90,000 per year. For a couple it starts at $42,430 up to $127,300; for a family of three, $60,000 - $180,000; and four $67,100 - $201,270.

Does it?

From the article:

KEY TAKEAWAYS
The middle class constitutes 50% of the U.S. population as of 2021, which is quite a bit smaller than it has been in nearly half a century.
Historically, the middle class has been the engine of American economic growth and prosperity.
The share of income captured by the middle class fell from 62% in 1970 to 43% in 2014.
The middle class is shrinking due to an increase in population at the extreme bottom and top of the economic spectrum.
The median income in the U.S. was $65,000 in 2020 (regardless of household size).

You are backing up my initial inquiry. Read closer....a single income middle class parent ranges from 30-90k, kids or not. So a 15/hr 40 hour week equals ~30k, which is middle class, no?

I don't think that $30,000 per year pre-tax can be considered "middle class." Poverty thresholds are, I think, pretty unrealistic. See here: https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-eco ... guidelines

I don't know how a family of four subsists on $26,000.

I thought the more important message was that there are problems in modern society that cannot be dealt with by relying on markets, and that therefore require government intervention. Although never as one mind, the two parties actually roughly tackled this issue, tried some things out, and can look back on what appears to be some success. Party affiliation needs to give way to trying solutions. Governing can be good. And because of the unprecedented level today of party loyalty, we are seeing very little of this sort of experimentation from government.

Household income for middle class has to be over $50k these days.

[kramerica.inc]

Democrats govern. Republicans want to destroy the government.

..

Democrats govern alright. They want government over everything even parents. The Title IX expansion to gender identity pushes in loco parentis like nothing I've seen before.

But that's the major difference in mentality of the left and right. The right doesnt want government raising their children. Meanwhile the left cant raise their children without the government.

[Farfromgeneva]

Democrats govern. Republicans want to destroy the government.

..

Democrats govern alright. They want government over everything even parents. The Title IX expansion to gender identity pushes in loco parentis like nothing I've seen before.

But that's the major difference in mentality of the left and right. The right doesnt want government raising their children. Meanwhile the left cant raise their children without the government.

Is it the left bringing back corporal punishment in schools in Missouri or dictating what’s taught to educational experts? The right is acting like a bunch of populist anti democratic folks just like make instincts on the left these days. What you’re talking about is, at best, an anachronistic view of a past long ago.

I just don’t agree with that given what I’m seeing every single day currently. The right wants to use government as a weapon to have all children raised the whole they want. Really no different than the left.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Democrats govern. Republicans want to destroy the government.

..

Democrats govern alright. They want government over everything even parents. The Title IX expansion to gender identity pushes in loco parentis like nothing I've seen before.

But that's the major difference in mentality of the left and right. The right doesnt want government raising their children. Meanwhile the left cant raise their children without the government.

Don't think I've ever met a lefty who wants the government raising their kids. Or a righty. Weird take.

[kramerica.inc]

Democrats govern. Republicans want to destroy the government.

..

Democrats govern alright. They want government over everything even parents. The Title IX expansion to gender identity pushes in loco parentis like nothing I've seen before.

But that's the major difference in mentality of the left and right. The right doesnt want government raising their children. Meanwhile the left cant raise their children without the government.

Don't think I've ever met a lefty who wants the government raising their kids. Or a righty. Weird take.

"It takes a village."

[a fan]

But that's the major difference in mentality of the left and right. The right doesnt want government raising their children.

The reality is the literal opposite of what you're claiming, Kram. How can you not know this?

Let's see if you can guess who I'm more frequently describing, Kram:

A. They put their kids in Public K-12, Public University

B. They put their kids Private k-12, Private University

Which group has the most conservatives, Kram.....A or B?

It's not even a close call.

Go to ANY rural town or State.....an enormous part of their culture revolves around HS sports and College sports....all at Government schools.

They LOVE government activities, my man. But like you, they simply don't recognize these places as government institutions. It never occurs to them.


I'll grant you that It's hilarious that both you and they think that they're for minimal government.

And naturally, in our sport....the rich coastal lacrosse lib parents have pulled away from government lacrosse....and replaced it with the private club circuit. You don't see this in small town America, Kram.

[MDlaxfan76]

Democrats govern. Republicans want to destroy the government.

..

Democrats govern alright. They want government over everything even parents. The Title IX expansion to gender identity pushes in loco parentis like nothing I've seen before.

But that's the major difference in mentality of the left and right. The right doesnt want government raising their children. Meanwhile the left cant raise their children without the government.

Don't think I've ever met a lefty who wants the government raising their kids. Or a righty. Weird take.

"It takes a village."

yes it does. My tax dollars pay for other families' kids' school.

Not the same as "raising their kids".

I think it is a lot of BS that the anti-trans "parents" can't raise their kids the way they want.
Sounds like they don't think their kids trust them as much as they do their chosen school?

I wonder why that is?

[Seacoaster(1)]

Democrats govern. Republicans want to destroy the government.

..

Democrats govern alright. They want government over everything even parents. The Title IX expansion to gender identity pushes in loco parentis like nothing I've seen before.

But that's the major difference in mentality of the left and right. The right doesnt want government raising their children. Meanwhile the left cant raise their children without the government.

Don't think I've ever met a lefty who wants the government raising their kids. Or a righty. Weird take.

I raised my kids, thankfully with my spouse. We sent them to public schools. The teachers and administration helped with learning, but we raised them.

Question: since you seem to know all about this Kramer, do, by and large, left of center parents care more about their kids' education than Right of center folks?

[Farfromgeneva]

To me this is like all these issues. (Warning highly reductive and generalized)

The folks who live in the wings of the spectrum are driven a ton by control. Folks in the middle don’t feel that burning urge to control things as much. On both sides.

[youthathletics]

The party of tolerance, is always so angry: https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/stat ... gegbpwV9xw

[Typical Lax Dad]

The party of tolerance, is always so angry: https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/stat ... gegbpwV9xw

Just putting it out there.

[a fan]

But that's the major difference in mentality of the left and right. The right doesnt want government raising their children.

The reality is the literal opposite of what you're claiming, Kram. How can you not know this?

Let's see if you can guess who I'm more frequently describing, Kram:

A. They put their kids in Public K-12, Public University

B. They put their kids Private k-12, Private University

Which group has the most conservatives, Kram.....A or B?

It's not even a close call.

Go to ANY rural town or State.....an enormous part of their culture revolves around HS sports and College sports....all at Government schools.

They LOVE government activities, my man. But like you, they simply don't recognize these places as government institutions. It never occurs to them.


I'll grant you that It's hilarious that both you and they think that they're for minimal government.

And naturally, in our sport....the rich coastal lacrosse lib parents have pulled away from government lacrosse....and replaced it with the private club circuit. You don't see this in small town America, Kram.

Still no reply.......?