media matters

[Farfromgeneva]

It is certainly not what I believe. More importantly I don't think it is what DMac believes either. I took his cry wolf analogy to apply to the media not the player. I don't recall him ever saying he didn't believe her - What I recall him saying is that given the information that was coming out (or more importantly NOT coming out) that he didn't think it happened.

That isn't an accusation against her - there is a big difference between being wrong and being untruthful. She has every right to talk about what she heard, or thought she heard. A newspaper has an obligation to verify facts before reporting - particularly on something that has become as inflammatory as race issues are in this country. The NYT loved the narrative too much to want to verify the facts. Given the NYT's track record, my presumption is that it was because they didn't want to take the chance that it wasn't true.

Do you know anyone personally that has experienced this type of stuff? I do. So, I don’t chalk it up to lying (until proven otherwise).

When did trust but verify disappear as common sense?

[DMac]

The latest (that I have seen).

Duke freshman Christina Barrow, one of four Black players on the team, told The News & Observer in North Carolina last week that she did not hear the slurs in the loud arena, but she and her teammates stood by Richardson.

“As part of our commitment to take any claims of racism seriously, BYU has completed its investigation into the allegation that racial heckling and slurs took place at the Duke vs. BYU women’s volleyball match on August 26. We reviewed all available video and audio recordings, including security footage and raw footage from all camera angles taken by BYUtv of the match, with broadcasting audio removed (to ensure that the noise from the stands could be heard more clearly). We also reached out to more than 50 individuals who attended the event: Duke athletic department personnel and student-athletes, BYU athletic department personnel and student-athletes, event security and management and fans who were in the arena that evening, including many of the fans in the on-court student section.

“From our extensive review, we have not found any evidence to corroborate the allegation that fans engaged in racial heckling or uttered racial slurs at the event. As we stated earlier, we would not tolerate any conduct that would make a student-athlete feel unsafe. That is the reason for our immediate response and our thorough investigation.

“As a result of our investigation, we have lifted the ban on the fan who was identified as having uttered racial slurs during the match. We have not found any evidence that that individual engaged in such an activity. BYU sincerely apologizes to that fan for any hardship the ban has caused.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... r-AA11E10Y

[MDlaxfan76]

HooDat is right on the money with what I meant by crying wolf, TLD.

Who are you saying was "crying wolf"?
The player?
Her teammates?

Isn't that the analogy to "Peter, the boy who cried wolf"?

Not the town crier, the town gossips, etc right?

I think the media indeed needs to examine and corroborate before judgments are spouted off about by pundits, but the basic claim by the player was newsworthy, and I'd suggest highly credible.

I don't think these attempts to "prove" that nothing happened are valid as to the experience of the player who certainly doesn't come across as a nut or someone looking for this kind of attention, though they are indeed interesting and certainly important to the particular person who was first identified as the source of the calls...if they can prove he wasn't the source, great. But that doesn't mean that they didn't happen.

[DMac]

See above, and I was saying TLD was crying wolf with his sarcastic comments and quickly jumping to the conclusion that this did indeed happen because one person said it did.

[MDlaxfan76]

During the match on Aug. 26, Duke outside hitter Rachel Richardson said she heard racial slurs during the second set while she served two balls in front of the ROC student section of fans.

She told a teammate about the slurs while the teams switched sides of the court following the set, and the two players told Duke coach Jolene Nagel. Nagel spoke with BYU coach Heather Olmstead, and BYU immediately sent a police officer and four ushers into the student section.

Richardson said she heard the slurs more intensely in the fourth set, when the ushers, BYU Police Det. Sgt. Richard Laursen and a Duke assistant athletic director stood near where she served and by the student section.

“I told the (BYU) Athletic staff that I never heard one racial comment being made,” Laursen said in his police report.

After the match, BYU banned a fan who Duke said had used the N-word and had made a player uncomfortable after the match. The fan is not a BYU student.

Laursen stood next to the man throughout the fourth set and said the man did not use any racist language. Laursen said he believed the man may have “(A)sperger syndrome or could have autism.”



I read that and think, yeah the guy who "may have Asperger syndrome or autism" may well have used a racial slur...she heard it and told a teammate and they told the coach...who told the BYU coach who got a police officer up there to ride herd on it...and the person with some syndrome didn't do it again.

In other words, it happened, but wasn't a function of some sort of widespread racist behavior that wasn't shut down. That makes a ton of sense.

[MDlaxfan76]

See above, and I was saying TLD was crying wolf with his sarcastic comments and quickly jumping to the conclusion that this did indeed happen because one person said it did.

See my response, based on the article you posted.

Sure makes more sense that it did happen, but then the police presence shut it down...not some sort of widespread racist behavior, but someone with some sort of mental health, autism perhaps, challenge not filtering...

[DMac]

Now I'm saying you're crying wolf too, it doesn't matter what evidence is put in front of you, you believe it happened and damn it, that's that. So be it.
Couldn't possibly be that someone said something that she misheard now could it (and JFTR, I think she's a nice kid too)?
Lot of things yelled out from the crowd, very possible (and I think the case) that what she thinks/thought she heard
and what was said are two different things.
Will say again, you and I are in that crowd and we hear someone yell the N word at this girl....neither of us is going to immediately react to that and say something? No one within earshot of the person yelling that was like the two of us? No one????
Color me suspicious.

[MDlaxfan76]

Now I'm saying you're crying wolf too, it doesn't matter what evidence is put in front of you, you believe it happened and damn it, that's that. So be it.
Couldn't possibly be that someone said something that she misheard now could it (and JFTR, I think she's a nice kid too)?
Lot of things yelled out from the crowd, very possible (and I think the case) that what she thinks/thought she heard
and what was said are two different things.
Will say again, you and I are in that crowd and we hear someone yell the N word at this girl....neither of us is going to immediately react to that and say something? No one within earshot of the person yelling that was like the two of us? No one????
Color me suspicious.

I understand your suspicion, and I appreciate your acknowledgement that she could have simply been mistaken...a couple of times.

She's been in front of a lot of crowds in her time and undoubtedly heard all sorts of chants and jeers (comes with the turf when playing in front of crowds) and doesn't have any sort of prior experience of 'miss-hearing' the N-word from the crowd.

But I find it entirely plausible, indeed much more plausible, that someone with a poor filter could have said what she heard...and the police officer's description certainly suggests that he thought there may be an autism or such issue...and that frequently comes with very poor social filters.

On the no one saying anything, I described exactly that sort of situation that I experienced...lots of adults present who didn't react, didn't speak up...if I hadn't no one would have. But sure, if you or I had been sitting right there, you betcha we'd have spoken up...but we weren't there and I find it entirely plausible there wasn't someone with the chutzpah to speak up, or they didn't believe they'd heard correctly...gave a pass...or just didn't comprehend what they'd heard amidst the other noise....wasn't on their radar screen...

[DMac]

“As a result of our investigation, we have lifted the ban on the fan who was identified as having uttered racial slurs during the match. We have not found any evidence that that individual engaged in such an activity. BYU sincerely apologizes to that fan for any hardship the ban has caused.

This is after listening to the crowd and filtering out as much noise as they could, never did they hear the N word.
You lean toward believing this happened despite there being no evidence that it did and I don't, so be it. If evidence
appears that it did I will gladly admit that I was wrong. So far none of the 5,500 fans there or any teammates say
they heard it, hence my position.

[MDlaxfan76]

“As a result of our investigation, we have lifted the ban on the fan who was identified as having uttered racial slurs during the match. We have not found any evidence that that individual engaged in such an activity. BYU sincerely apologizes to that fan for any hardship the ban has caused.

This is after listening to the crowd and filtering out as much noise as they could, never did they hear the N word.
You lean toward believing this happened despite there being no evidence that it did and I don't, so be it. If evidence
appears that it did I will gladly admit that I was wrong. So far none of the 5,500 fans there or any teammates say
they heard it, hence my position.

And your position is certainly within the realm of possible, but I lean to believing the gal heard correctly.
The story is far more plausible, at least to me, as a I described.

And let's be clear, "have not found any evidence" is not proof that she didn't hear it accurately.
They just can't prove that she did. Nor that she didn't, BTW.

I also like how she handled it.

Now as to the hyperbolic stuff coming from some other folks that's another matter.

[DMac]

Another person's opinion.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/es ... ce75c94b12

[MDlaxfan76]

Another person's opinion.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/es ... ce75c94b12

Washington Examiner???

This guy's opinion holds some credibility for you?
Not what I expected from you.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/author/zachary-faria

[DMac]

Don't typically read it, had no idea who the author is.
Read it and couldn't find much in there I disagreed with.
Went a little overboard at the end but I've heard enough
from Jemele to not find his description of her beyond belief.

[Typical Lax Dad]

“As a result of our investigation, we have lifted the ban on the fan who was identified as having uttered racial slurs during the match. We have not found any evidence that that individual engaged in such an activity. BYU sincerely apologizes to that fan for any hardship the ban has caused.

This is after listening to the crowd and filtering out as much noise as they could, never did they hear the N word.
You lean toward believing this happened despite there being no evidence that it did and I don't, so be it. If evidence
appears that it did I will gladly admit that I was wrong. So far none of the 5,500 fans there or any teammates say
they heard it, hence my position.

And your position is certainly within the realm of possible, but I lean to believing the gal heard correctly.
The story is far more plausible, at least to me, as a I described.

And let's be clear, "have not found any evidence" is not proof that she didn't hear it accurately.
They just can't prove that she did. Nor that she didn't, BTW.

I also like how she handled it.

Now as to the hyperbolic stuff coming from some other folks that's another matter.

OJ didn’t do it either. He was found not guilty.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It is certainly not what I believe. More importantly I don't think it is what DMac believes either. I took his cry wolf analogy to apply to the media not the player. I don't recall him ever saying he didn't believe her - What I recall him saying is that given the information that was coming out (or more importantly NOT coming out) that he didn't think it happened.

That isn't an accusation against her - there is a big difference between being wrong and being untruthful. She has every right to talk about what she heard, or thought she heard. A newspaper has an obligation to verify facts before reporting - particularly on something that has become as inflammatory as race issues are in this country. The NYT loved the narrative too much to want to verify the facts. Given the NYT's track record, my presumption is that it was because they didn't want to take the chance that it wasn't true.

Do you know anyone personally that has experienced this type of stuff? I do. So, I don’t chalk it up to lying (until proven otherwise).

When did trust but verify disappear as common sense?

When a black female from Ellicot City, St. John’s College Prep, and Duke claim that they were slurred…I usually don’t trust it. Why would I?

[DMac]

College Bowl with Payton and Cooper Manning is on. These Mannings are terrific on TV, Payton is perfect for this show (watched it last year too). BYU v U of Washington, good game. BYU not banned from appearing on the show, I guess.

[Typical Lax Dad]

College Bowl with Payton and Cooper Manning is on. These Mannings are terrific on TV, Payton is perfect for this show (watched it last year too). BYU v U of Washington, good game. BYU not banned from appearing on the show, I guess.

Syracuse wasn’t banned either.

https://www.syracuse.com/syracuse-unive ... utType=amp

I am shocked. Usually schools are banned from playing on TV.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This was a lie..because it was in the New York Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/27/nyre ... m.amp.html

[DMac]

U of W wins it 695-555. Ella with the pink hair for U of W is a sharp gal, cute too.
BYU makes it to the quarter finals though by outscoring Florida, winners of the
first round game. Still alive...well still alive if the show doesn't follow U of SC's
lead and cancels the future scheduled competition.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50486619.amp

More fake news. The fraternity was re-enstated because ther was no evidence of a fraternity member using slurs. It was a guest of the fraternity members. They got it wrong as usual. More cryimg wolf.