THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[HopFan16]

No, you won't find that. Because you don't find people praising those guys out the wahzoo and making ridiculous claims for them.

People praise them when they do something worthy of praise. There was plenty of praise of Baskin going around earlier this season, especially after the Princeton game. Keogh has clearly improved this year (I was one of the people who expected a leap from him this year). Lots of talk about Smith's finishing ability, particularly in the Michigan game. But if we're talking about the Rutgers game—no, none of them did much especially worthy of "praise."

Offensive middies making mistakes on defense happen in every single game. All of the players listed above have made mistakes on defense. One of them has gotten totally burned more than once. But it's silly to pick on them, because they're not defensive players. That they're getting trapped on defense so often is a failure of coaching, not playmaking. Again—why doesn't this happen to other teams nearly as often?

Zinn also has more caused turnovers than all the other middies combined, but haven't seen too many mentions of that.

You think his defense is an issue—fine—but I think the fact that he outscored nearly the entire rest of the midfield combined is a much bigger problem, and one that has a far greater impact on this team and the reason it has underperformed on the whole this season.

As far as "giving up on the season" goes, count me out on that.

[jhu72]

No, you won't find that. Because you don't find people praising those guys out the wahzoo and making ridiculous claims for them.

People praise them when they do something worthy of praise. There was plenty of praise of Baskin going around earlier this season, especially after the Princeton game. Keogh has clearly improved this year (I was one of the people who expected a leap from him this year). Lots of talk about Smith's finishing ability, particularly in the Michigan game. But if we're talking about the Rutgers game—no, none of them did much especially worthy of "praise."

Offensive middies making mistakes on defense happen in every single game. All of the players listed above have made mistakes on defense. One of them has gotten totally burned more than once. But it's silly to pick on them, because they're not defensive players. That they're getting trapped on defense so often is a failure of coaching, not playmaking. Again—why doesn't this happen to other teams nearly as often?

Zinn also has more caused turnovers than all the other middies combined, but haven't seen too many mentions of that.

You think his defense is an issue—fine—but I think the fact that he outscored nearly the entire rest of the midfield combined is a much bigger problem, and one that has a far greater impact on this team and the reason it has underperformed on the whole this season.

As far as "giving up on the season" goes, count me out on that.

This fact regarding Zinn - his defense needs work - is not new or based solely on the Rutgers game. It has been noted long before now. Yes, middies make mistakes on defense every game on all teams. Zinn as a freshman is making more than you would like given the amount of time he plays on defense - which really isn't all that much. Most of his time is spent on FO wing and the occassional run as a SSDM.

Zinn's best use for the remainder of this year is Benson picking his spots on offense where he can generate a mismatch.

[molo]

Zinn has the biggest upside of all the middies on the team. Given this team’s lack of midfield production, his limited pt is perplexing but not surprising to anyone who recalls a game against Penn State a few years ago in which rather than giving the ball to their best player in crunch time, the offensive guru let an upperclassman handle the ball. The best player on the team was a freshman. He was the team’s best player for three years. As little they use Zinn, it’s a wonder Epstein starts. I mean he’s just a freshman. How can he know the system?

[jhu72]

Zinn has the biggest upside of all the middies on the team. Given this team’s lack of midfield production, his limited pt is perplexing but not surprising to anyone who recalls a game against Penn State a few years ago in which rather than giving the ball to their best player in crunch time, the offensive guru let an upperclassman handle the ball. The best player on the team was a freshman. He was the team’s best player for three years. As little they use Zinn, it’s a wonder Epstein starts. I mean he’s just a freshman. How can he know the system?

Let's not pretend that there is some equivalence between the difficulty of starting at attack as a freshman and at midfield in the new era of two way middies.

[runrussellrun]

Rutgers first goal, all on Zinn. He gives a love tap cross check to a Sophomore who didn't step on the field once last year. Weak defense. Fer Sure.
RU goal #2, Rapine doesn't do the double and recover well and is first to be voted of Dancing with the Stars, Petro edition. No zinn
3rd goal, a cluster for Hopkins on a FB. #8 & #19 are literally touching each other, both playing point. huh. no zinn
4th goal, #16 actually moves away from RU goal scorer. Another Dancing with Stars contestant voted off the Petro show. Feeder untouched.
5th goal, Rapine trying the Iron Lotus Defense, (is it zone, is it man?) and leaves Gallagher wide open. Guess it was #3's fault. NoZ, feeder untouched
6th goal, Iron Lotus again, and Zinn gets his head cut off. Feeder untouched. what Hopkins #23 was doing out in the alley, meandering back to hole??
7th goal. Lefty sweep. A no contact ssd slide comes, no zinn
8th goal. 4 on 4 break after clear interception. #16 doesn't communicate for Foley to play ball. or someone doesn't communincate. Shooter untouched.

[OCanada]

Hopkins scored 16. I didn’t see anything on the field to convince me there is a case for starting Zinn, the problem is the defense not the offense. Most thought I would be the reverses

[viper]

Hopkins scored 16. I didn’t see anything on the field to convince me there is a case for starting Zinn, the problem is the defense not the offense. Most thought I would be the reverses

I agree no problem scoring 16 against Rutgers, 10 of those points came from the starting attack I believe. The problem is when we play defenses that will pack it in better and not let guys like Epstein and Williams inside like we say. Hopkins is weak from beyond 12 yards and have little beyond Marr. Unless they can find someone who can consistently hit locations with velocity, they have little chance against more complete defenses.

From the last two weeks it seems that OSU will not challenge our D as much as Rutgers and certainly not as much as PSU or MD. Next week will be on the offense to put up some points against a solid defense - and it may require that some midfielders be able to draw the defense outward with some scoring from outside.

[molo]

Easy to start at attack? Try to come up with an AA team, and you will find a logjam at attack. Brad Smith of Duke was a first team AA middie last year. He had played mostly attack this year until this weekend and is not even close to one of the top 10 attackmen in the country. Epstein is quarterbacking the offense on a team with two returning upperclassmen at attack. I think that involves quite a bit of responsibility. His response to the pressure? He is the best offensive player on the team, not just the best freshman. Spare me the cliches and coach speak. If basketball players can play one year (or no years) of college basketball and go to the NBA, it is not out of the realm of possibility for a freshman to start on a college lacrosse team. Yes, experience and "leadership" are important, but so is putting the best players on the team on the field as soon possible.
If getting the best midfielders on the team is not possible because the system is too complicated, maybe it's time to change the system.

[HopFan16]

It's no coincidence that fans of other teams are so confused by Zinn's lack of playing time on offense. The only people who can "explain" it are in this thread, and those explanations range from "the coaches must have some secret strategy that is correct" or "his defense stinks, so he shouldn't play any offense"—neither of which hold up to scrutiny.

Epstein is not going to score 8 every game. The attack is probably not going to combine for 15 pts again this season. We need better midfield production. It's a glaring issue that has impacted several games already. That the offense had a good day against Rutgers makes me very happy, put it does not mean that it will continue, or that no changes should ever be made. There is more than enough evidence available to suggest the offense would benefit greatly from either another legit dodging or shooting presence at the midfield. Was I the only one who saw Zinn peg two corners against Virginia? One of those being a feet-set snipe off ball movement from the righty wing. Feel like we could use that skill set. Maybe that was my imagination.

Anyway, the bigger question if this team has any hope of playing into May is why a veteran defense that returns virtually everyone from a unit that allowed only 9.7 goals per game last year is now giving up over 12 goals per game this year. That's the big mystery. Is it really the switch from Turnbaugh to Darby? Their save percentages are similar—I assume Turnbaugh knew the defense better and was a better vocal leader than the young sophomore in his first season as a starter. But even if that's true, can that really account for a nearly 3-goal difference? Granted, goal scoring is up everywhere. Syracuse at 10 goals allowed per game is #20 in the country this year—that would not have sniffed the top 30 last year. So you've got to build in a little cushion for the new rules and the faster pace. But still don't think any of this totally explains the defensive drop-off for a group that was "supposed" to be one of the best in the country this year.

[molo]

Just your imagination.

[flalax22]

It's no coincidence that fans of other teams are so confused by Zinn's lack of playing time on offense. The only people who can "explain" it are in this thread, and those explanations range from "the coaches must have some secret strategy that is correct" or "his defense stinks, so he shouldn't play any offense"—neither of which hold up to scrutiny.

Epstein is not going to score 8 every game. The attack is probably not going to combine for 15 pts again this season. We need better midfield production. It's a glaring issue that has impacted several games already. That the offense had a good day against Rutgers makes me very happy, put it does not mean that it will continue, or that no changes should ever be made. There is more than enough evidence available to suggest the offense would benefit greatly from either another legit dodging or shooting presence at the midfield. Was I the only one who saw Zinn peg two corners against Virginia? One of those being a feet-set snipe off ball movement from the righty wing. Feel like we could use that skill set. Maybe that was my imagination.

Zinn should be playing. The reality is there are many better options rotting on the bench than this midfield that Benson has put together. They are small and they rarely score. Play the bigger and more athletic kids and if they don't score, well at least you're ahead on Gbs, D and all other facets of the game where size and athleticism is beneficial.

Back to Zinn - it is so obvious that he is bigger faster stronger and can score more often than the first two sets of midfielders that get time. Well to everyone but Bobby Benson.

[Big Dog]

Anyway, the bigger question if this team has any hope of playing into May is why a veteran defense that returns virtually everyone from a unit that allowed only 9.7 goals per game last year is now giving up over 12 goals per game this year.

More turnovers leading to more offensive touches for the opposition?

[a fan]

Is it really the switch from Turnbaugh to Darby? .................So you've got to build in a little cushion for the new rules and the faster pace.

Change in goalies sv pcg coupled with ~4 more shots on goal per game in 2019 adds 1.72 goals per game.

Add in the "cushion" you're suggesting, and the worsening goal difference makes perfect sense.

[DocBarrister]

Easy to start at attack? Try to come up with an AA team, and you will find a logjam at attack. Brad Smith of Duke was a first team AA middie last year. He had played mostly attack this year until this weekend and is not even close to one of the top 10 attackmen in the country. Epstein is quarterbacking the offense on a team with two returning upperclassmen at attack. I think that involves quite a bit of responsibility. His response to the pressure? He is the best offensive player on the team, not just the best freshman. Spare me the cliches and coach speak. If basketball players can play one year (or no years) of college basketball and go to the NBA, it is not out of the realm of possibility for a freshman to start on a college lacrosse team. Yes, experience and "leadership" are important, but so is putting the best players on the team on the field as soon possible.
If getting the best midfielders on the team is not possible because the system is too complicated, maybe it's time to change the system.

Epstein is a true outlier. He’s not just the best offensive player on the team, he’s simply the best player period. Epstein is putting up some ridiculous numbers for a freshman, and he’s not even running the offense yet (Williams seems to have taken on that task).

I am assuming Zinn isn’t getting more playing time because of some deficiencies on defense, some poor decisions while playing on offense, a nagging injury, or some combination of those. One thing’s clear, Zinn is the most athletic player on the entire team. The only way he is going to get better is to get the reps. I am wondering whether Petro regrets not investing more playing time in Zinn. From what Kessenich said on Saturday, sounds like Petro is close to deploying the USS Zinn very soon. Better late than never.

I think some of what we’ve seen reflects the pressure that Petro and his staff must understandably feel to win NOW. Grinding down the FoGo, playing just two SSDMs for most of the game, not allowing the frosh middies to get more reps ... all reminiscent of desperate baseball managers grinding their pitching staffs down or NBA coaches making their superstars play nearly the entire game.

Anyway, Blue Jays are playing better as a team. Think we have a reasonable shot at taking down Ohio State at home.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

It's no coincidence that fans of other teams are so confused by Zinn's lack of playing time on offense. The only people who can "explain" it are in this thread, and those explanations range from "the coaches must have some secret strategy that is correct" or "his defense stinks, so he shouldn't play any offense"—neither of which hold up to scrutiny.

Epstein is not going to score 8 every game. The attack is probably not going to combine for 15 pts again this season. We need better midfield production. It's a glaring issue that has impacted several games already. That the offense had a good day against Rutgers makes me very happy, put it does not mean that it will continue, or that no changes should ever be made. There is more than enough evidence available to suggest the offense would benefit greatly from either another legit dodging or shooting presence at the midfield. Was I the only one who saw Zinn peg two corners against Virginia? One of those being a feet-set snipe off ball movement from the righty wing. Feel like we could use that skill set. Maybe that was my imagination.

Anyway, the bigger question if this team has any hope of playing into May is why a veteran defense that returns virtually everyone from a unit that allowed only 9.7 goals per game last year is now giving up over 12 goals per game this year. That's the big mystery. Is it really the switch from Turnbaugh to Darby? Their save percentages are similar—I assume Turnbaugh knew the defense better and was a better vocal leader than the young sophomore in his first season as a starter. But even if that's true, can that really account for a nearly 3-goal difference? Granted, goal scoring is up everywhere. Syracuse at 10 goals allowed per game is #20 in the country this year—that would not have sniffed the top 30 last year. So you've got to build in a little cushion for the new rules and the faster pace. But still don't think any of this totally explains the defensive drop-off for a group that was "supposed" to be one of the best in the country this year.

On defense, sounds like they’re missing a vocal leader like Brock Turnbaugh. On offense, Williams and DeSimone have struggled in their new leadership roles.

A sign of things to come? Freshman Epstein directing senior captain Marr to move from behind the net to above GLE in order to clear the way for Epstein to dodge and score.

Oh, and by the way ... looks like Cavalier basketball fan, Wombat, has some celebrating to do tonight. It was a long time in coming. Congratulations, Wombat.

DocBarrister

[jhu72]

Easy to start at attack? Try to come up with an AA team, and you will find a logjam at attack. Brad Smith of Duke was a first team AA middie last year. He had played mostly attack this year until this weekend and is not even close to one of the top 10 attackmen in the country. Epstein is quarterbacking the offense on a team with two returning upperclassmen at attack. I think that involves quite a bit of responsibility. His response to the pressure? He is the best offensive player on the team, not just the best freshman. Spare me the cliches and coach speak. If basketball players can play one year (or no years) of college basketball and go to the NBA, it is not out of the realm of possibility for a freshman to start on a college lacrosse team. Yes, experience and "leadership" are important, but so is putting the best players on the team on the field as soon possible.
If getting the best midfielders on the team is not possible because the system is too complicated, maybe it's time to change the system.

I did not say the system was too complicated. That is the canonical "knock" against Petro's defense. Not mine! I don't think too much is being asked of a defensive player to recognize a crossover in front of the crease and switch.

I don't think I anywhere denigrated Epstein's accomplishments.

Nor have a I denigrated Zinn's, unless calling someone a freshman is an insult.

By the way you guys who think you are imagining Zinn's performance against UVA, aren't. He had a nice game where he scored two nice goals. He also was the defensive player most responsible for Conrad's (goal #9) that to me was a turning point in the game. Just another freshman play, watching, wondering what to do while Conrad scores. If one of the smaller midfielder's had performed as Zinn did, this thread would have people screaming bloody murder to the top of their collective lungs! Heads exploding! Mentioning that it was Zinn is apparently not allowed.
His defense is just fine.

Having said that, I agree he is Hopkin's best midfield prospect, by a long shot. Seems to me Petro and Benson recognize that and they have him on a plan to develop. Something else they are constantly criticized for not doing. He takes FO wing; runs some SSDM shifts; runs some 2s offensive shifts. I am sure they had hoped he would pick up SSDM quicker as it is the place where we probably need the most help now that the weather is warming up and we are facing the best offensive opponents. Scoring points has largely not been our problem.

[OCanada]

Where did the quaint notion Petro doesn’t start freshmen begin. He has played freshmen his entire career as a head coach. I suppose because he isn’t starting a freshman Simone wants him to start because when you aren’t at practices, don’t ask and don’t really have any experience playing at this level you know better than the cod bing staff. Makes sense

I know a lot of people associated with other teams. So after reading a few comments I went to my next door neighbor whose son was a multi year AA and played on a title team. He is still very well informed because his son has played in the MLL and still very active. It went like this;

I was at the Hopkins game Saturday and was wondering why Zinn doesn’t get more playing time? Do you have a thought?

Neighbor: who?

[viper]

It's no coincidence that fans of other teams are so confused by Zinn's lack of playing time on offense. The only people who can "explain" it are in this thread, and those explanations range from "the coaches must have some secret strategy that is correct" or "his defense stinks, so he shouldn't play any offense"—neither of which hold up to scrutiny.

Epstein is not going to score 8 every game. The attack is probably not going to combine for 15 pts again this season. We need better midfield production. It's a glaring issue that has impacted several games already. That the offense had a good day against Rutgers makes me very happy, put it does not mean that it will continue, or that no changes should ever be made. There is more than enough evidence available to suggest the offense would benefit greatly from either another legit dodging or shooting presence at the midfield. Was I the only one who saw Zinn peg two corners against Virginia? One of those being a feet-set snipe off ball movement from the righty wing. Feel like we could use that skill set. Maybe that was my imagination.

Anyway, the bigger question if this team has any hope of playing into May is why a veteran defense that returns virtually everyone from a unit that allowed only 9.7 goals per game last year is now giving up over 12 goals per game this year. That's the big mystery. Is it really the switch from Turnbaugh to Darby? Their save percentages are similar—I assume Turnbaugh knew the defense better and was a better vocal leader than the young sophomore in his first season as a starter. But even if that's true, can that really account for a nearly 3-goal difference? Granted, goal scoring is up everywhere. Syracuse at 10 goals allowed per game is #20 in the country this year—that would not have sniffed the top 30 last year. So you've got to build in a little cushion for the new rules and the faster pace. But still don't think any of this totally explains the defensive drop-off for a group that was "supposed" to be one of the best in the country this year.

Feedback from an MIAA coach I know regarding Hopkins defense lies squarely on their SSDMs. Not necessarily their lack of size (which is also a problem) but what was referred to as an "obvious" lack of communication between the shorties and the poles. That could certainly be influenced by the GK as well as it's his responsibility to call out to the defense.

[jhu06]

I haven't watched OSU much this year. Any of their fans have a preview of what we expect this weekend and who has the edge?

[HopFan16]

I haven't watched OSU much this year. Any of their fans have a preview of what we expect this weekend and who has the edge?

They don't have fans, at least not on this forum.

FOGO - Inacio, very good, was 12-23 against PSU's Arceri last weekend and 19-27 against us in the Big Ten semifinals last year. Prouty was 5-12 against Inacio in that game and 2-9 in the regular season matchup. So despite how well Prouty has played, this is a concern.

Goalie - Kirson, 52.8% on the year, so solid but not outstanding. Jays saw him twice last year, he was 40% or below in both matchups. Of course, we got a herculean effort out of Turnbaugh in that semifinal (16 saves, 76% on the day) so the goalie battle will likely be much closer this time around.

Offense - Only 14 goals in their last two games combined but there's a lot of talent there. The knowns: LeClaire has eaten us alive in the past and is the type of big dodger/shooter we tend to have trouble with. Jasinski is the jitterbug, he owned us in 2017 but we fared much better against him in 2018. Jackson Reid is a lefty sniper, not so different from Marr but maybe a little more mobile. They've got a big freshman who plays at X, Jack Myers, capable of putting a lot of points on the board but he's slowed down a bit as of late. They don't score much in transition from what I've seen.

Defense - Ben Randall and Erik Evans are gone, leaving Matt Borges as the top cover guy. Defense is strong as usual though has given up double digits goals 5 times this year. Held UMass to 7 on the road, Notre Dame to 10.

OSU is a good team—the win on the road at Notre Dame a few weeks ago proves that, but they did beat up on a lot of mediocre teams in the first half of the season to get to where they are. I believe we are more talented overall but that doesn't always translate to a W. Jays absolutely 100% can and must win this game.