Does flag waving mean you are patriotic?

[old salt]

Do you consider your brother in law a criminal for what he did on Jan 6 ?

[MDlaxfan76]

Do you consider your brother in law a criminal for what he did on Jan 6 ?

He did break the law, trespassing in areas the public is not allowed, but I think that was unwitting and he'd at worst deserve a fine (probably so but they're ignoring those most minor violations). I take his word that he did no violence or destruction of property, and I take his word that he told others that the police 'are just doing their jobs, so don't yell at them'...and I take his word that he was at the back of the crowd for most of the time, having been trying to find a restroom along the way rather than being part of the surge...came in late...

As I said, a thin line...but I was addressing whether it was a patriotic act. He thought that was what he was doing was patriotic (and likely most people thought so) but I think that trying to intimidate Congress to interrupt a Constitutionally required process in the hopes of reversal of a lawful election is an attempted insurrection, and attempted coup...which, given such intent is definitely not patriotic and is indeed a crime. But he didn't have that expectation.

Cult members are often unaware of how deluded they are, but they remain responsible, at least to some extent for their actions.

In my brother-in-law's case, I take his word for it that he didn't cross the line into knowing criminal acts.

I've been avoiding discussing these Mar a Lago events, but I suspect they will come up though I'm prioritizing household peace...he daily goes into a SCIF at a 3 letter agency. He holds the very highest security level access. So, if this wasn't about Trump, I'd be interested in his views...pre-Trump he'd have been disgusted and outraged. No doubt.

[cradleandshoot]

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.

But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.

It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.

So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.

disgusting.
And I agree with those saying it's become difficult to fly the flag with the same confidence that we won't be misunderstood as MAGA. Which is a shame.

BTW, I'm perfectly fine as well with those who utilize the flag or anthem or other symbolism to express their protest against the current realities in which our country still does not live up to its ideals. Protesting and working for a 'more perfect union' is indeed patriotic as well...but not via violence or hate.

Yes, Cradle, those who carried the Blue Lives Matter flags during the insurrection contributed to as unpatriotic an act as one can imagine, beating on policemen defending democracy, that which the Stars and Stripes actually represents, in an effort to overturn a legitimate election in favor of installing a corrupt tyrant. Any question as to where those insurrectionists true loyalties lie became obvious. And it wasn't to "blue lives".

It's this immense hypocrisy that I'm addressing.

Anyone waving the Blue Lives Matter flag that tried to break into the capital is a huge hypocrite. If you waved the Blue Lives Matter flag to the protest at the capital steps that is a different matter. Are you saying that any protester waving any flag that only marched to the capital steps to protest are all unpatriotic by default because they protested in the first place. I have my Betsy Ross flag I purchased right after 9/11. Today that flag is looked upon by many FLP pinheads as a symbol of the FRC nutjobs. The truth is it is simply an American flag and a beautiful one at that. If I fly it in front of my house today, some angry, narrow minded people will only see that flag as a symbol of FRC extremism. They no longer see an American flag.

I'm saying that waving the flag, any flag, is not a guarantee of patriotism.

AND I'm saying that it's an awful shame but these symbols have been badly sullied by their usage as symbols of what I believe can correctly be described as fascism. Indeed, it makes it difficult to not wonder what the flag waver is communicating when we see it being most vigorously waved.

My mother innocently bought a replacement American flag for the dock at the lake, the prior one was in tatters and hadn't been replaced by our landlord. We did put it up, as we'd have previously done, but we did wonder whether other lake goers would misunderstand us as MAGA fascists. I drew the line at putting it up behind the speed boat, a favorite display by MAGA types now.

Yes, your Betsy Ross flag has been specifically claimed by the far right extremists...an even stronger representation of their ideology. We've previously discussed their rationale...again, a shame.

As to the Blue Lives Matter flag, we agree as to hypocrisy...but I also think the flag and waving it at any event is really saying the flag waver doesn't care about and/or rejects concerns about police violence, especially racially based violence. There can be exceptions in one's intent, but that's what it represents as used primarily. (the Confederate flag can just be intended as a symbol of 'rebellious youth' but that's not what is commonly understood, rather it's typically a direct statement of racial bigotry and intimidation).

As to the protestors who did not break down doors but were 'merely in Washington to protest'....based on a mistaken view of the election outcome because of the Big Lie, I think there was a thin line. Many of them, including my brother-in-law, did not directly engage in any violence. However most did hope to be part of reversing the outcome of the election, not merely "protest". And they marched side by side with those carrying Confederate flags, Qanon symbols, and participated in chants calling for reversal of the election, part of an attempt at intimidation to do so.

In my brother-in-law's case he claims he had no expectation that the election would be reversed, just expected to hear some speeches, and didn't witness any violence (though he did get tear gas in his eyes 3 times and lost his phone in the press of people)...and he was on the Capitol steps, which itself was illegal though he says he didn't know that. Yes, being part of a mob can cause one to do things one would never consider when alone.

I don't see my brother in law's actions as actually 'patriotic' though he had thought so at the time. I'll defend his right to protest, peacefully, even when so mistaken. But he was part of a mob that tried to overturn democracy and if he doesn't reject that effort (as he has the violence at least) he'd be no patriot.

And anyone still supporting the Big Lie is definitely not a patriot. And yet they claim to be.

Miracles do happen. I agree with damn near everything you said. Waving a flag does not equate to Patriotism. Until both sides far left and far right understand that it will remain the status quo. I'm not a flag waver but I'm a huge advocate for the people who believe that blue lives matter just as other folks believe black lives matter.
As it always is.. the devil is in the details. Here in Rochester NY the PD is short well over a 100 officers. The last 2 years have been the catalyst for many officers to say screw this, I'm outta here. For some strange reason there has been no mad rush of new candidates eager to apply. I wonder why that is??? There is to my understanding a whole new generation of social justice warriors out there. They apparently are reluctant to apply their social justice beliefs and see how they work when patrolling the mean streets of Urban America. Too bad because they could make such a difference once they adjusted to being physically assaulted and degraded on the streets of the people they are sworn to protect. Pigs in a Blanket... Fry em like bacon... Or you can just shoot em up in their car while they are on a stakeout looking for a suspected murderer. It's all good..right? Officer Tony Maz gave his life doing the right thing. I guess he was one of those "pigs in a blanket" that needed to be fried like bacon? I guess just assassinating him while trying to protect his city and the people that live there makes everybody grateful doesn't it? You advocate violence no matter your political or social ideology you get your wish don't you?

[Brooklyn]

flag waiving at pro tRump/pro right wing rally:



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 9_crop.jpg


Flag waiving proves they are NOT patriotic.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.

But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.

It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.

So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.

disgusting.
And I agree with those saying it's become difficult to fly the flag with the same confidence that we won't be misunderstood as MAGA. Which is a shame.

BTW, I'm perfectly fine as well with those who utilize the flag or anthem or other symbolism to express their protest against the current realities in which our country still does not live up to its ideals. Protesting and working for a 'more perfect union' is indeed patriotic as well...but not via violence or hate.

Yes, Cradle, those who carried the Blue Lives Matter flags during the insurrection contributed to as unpatriotic an act as one can imagine, beating on policemen defending democracy, that which the Stars and Stripes actually represents, in an effort to overturn a legitimate election in favor of installing a corrupt tyrant. Any question as to where those insurrectionists true loyalties lie became obvious. And it wasn't to "blue lives".

It's this immense hypocrisy that I'm addressing.

Anyone waving the Blue Lives Matter flag that tried to break into the capital is a huge hypocrite. If you waved the Blue Lives Matter flag to the protest at the capital steps that is a different matter. Are you saying that any protester waving any flag that only marched to the capital steps to protest are all unpatriotic by default because they protested in the first place. I have my Betsy Ross flag I purchased right after 9/11. Today that flag is looked upon by many FLP pinheads as a symbol of the FRC nutjobs. The truth is it is simply an American flag and a beautiful one at that. If I fly it in front of my house today, some angry, narrow minded people will only see that flag as a symbol of FRC extremism. They no longer see an American flag.

I'm saying that waving the flag, any flag, is not a guarantee of patriotism.

AND I'm saying that it's an awful shame but these symbols have been badly sullied by their usage as symbols of what I believe can correctly be described as fascism. Indeed, it makes it difficult to not wonder what the flag waver is communicating when we see it being most vigorously waved.

My mother innocently bought a replacement American flag for the dock at the lake, the prior one was in tatters and hadn't been replaced by our landlord. We did put it up, as we'd have previously done, but we did wonder whether other lake goers would misunderstand us as MAGA fascists. I drew the line at putting it up behind the speed boat, a favorite display by MAGA types now.

Yes, your Betsy Ross flag has been specifically claimed by the far right extremists...an even stronger representation of their ideology. We've previously discussed their rationale...again, a shame.

As to the Blue Lives Matter flag, we agree as to hypocrisy...but I also think the flag and waving it at any event is really saying the flag waver doesn't care about and/or rejects concerns about police violence, especially racially based violence. There can be exceptions in one's intent, but that's what it represents as used primarily. (the Confederate flag can just be intended as a symbol of 'rebellious youth' but that's not what is commonly understood, rather it's typically a direct statement of racial bigotry and intimidation).

As to the protestors who did not break down doors but were 'merely in Washington to protest'....based on a mistaken view of the election outcome because of the Big Lie, I think there was a thin line. Many of them, including my brother-in-law, did not directly engage in any violence. However most did hope to be part of reversing the outcome of the election, not merely "protest". And they marched side by side with those carrying Confederate flags, Qanon symbols, and participated in chants calling for reversal of the election, part of an attempt at intimidation to do so.

In my brother-in-law's case he claims he had no expectation that the election would be reversed, just expected to hear some speeches, and didn't witness any violence (though he did get tear gas in his eyes 3 times and lost his phone in the press of people)...and he was on the Capitol steps, which itself was illegal though he says he didn't know that. Yes, being part of a mob can cause one to do things one would never consider when alone.

I don't see my brother in law's actions as actually 'patriotic' though he had thought so at the time. I'll defend his right to protest, peacefully, even when so mistaken. But he was part of a mob that tried to overturn democracy and if he doesn't reject that effort (as he has the violence at least) he'd be no patriot.

And anyone still supporting the Big Lie is definitely not a patriot. And yet they claim to be.

Miracles do happen. I agree with damn near everything you said. Waving a flag does not equate to Patriotism. Until both sides far left and far right understand that it will remain the status quo. I'm not a flag waver but I'm a huge advocate for the people who believe that blue lives matter just as other folks believe black lives matter.
As it always is.. the devil is in the details. Here in Rochester NY the PD is short well over a 100 officers. The last 2 years have been the catalyst for many officers to say screw this, I'm outta here. For some strange reason there has been no mad rush of new candidates eager to apply. I wonder why that is??? There is to my understanding a whole new generation of social justice warriors out there. They apparently are reluctant to apply their social justice beliefs and see how they work when patrolling the mean streets of Urban America. Too bad because they could make such a difference once they adjusted to being physically assaulted and degraded on the streets of the people they are sworn to protect. Pigs in a Blanket... Fry em like bacon... Or you can just shoot em up in their car while they are on a stakeout looking for a suspected murderer. It's all good..right? Officer Tony Maz gave his life doing the right thing. I guess he was one of those "pigs in a blanket" that needed to be fried like bacon? I guess just assassinating him while trying to protect his city and the people that live there makes everybody grateful doesn't it? You advocate violence no matter your political or social ideology you get your wish don't you?

https://13wham.com/amp/news/local/roche ... nt-program

[HooDat]

Man, we really need some fall ball or something.

Might want to check out the student athletes on the SEC Network.
Florida v Stanford w-volleyball.
Damn.

Had a feeling my question would strike a nerve or two.

AB1BAF97-5282-43E2-B25A-B5055B8DB6E3.jpeg

Where's Wombat ?

Xactly!!!

[DMac]

A fine display of patriotism.

[MDlaxfan76]

I suspect there are pics that aren't altered in all sorts of ways...whose hands are those, anyway?!

[DMac]

Don't know, hadn't noticed 'em.

[HooDat]

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.

But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.

It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.

So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.

Lot of good stuff packed into y'all's posts on this.

If you are going to get to the core, I think MD nails it with "Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic"

Interestingly MD, it is the answer to the last part of my clipped version of your post. Excluding the people who really are just plain hateful, I think there are a lot of quite honorable and idealistic people wrapping themselves in the flag doing things that that you characterize as demonstrating hate, dislike and distrust our form of government - but the reality is, they love our form of government. And they are extremely disappointed in how our elected officials are exercising their power within (and probably in their opinion against) that governmental framework. There are a lot of people who feel unrepresented and looked down upon by our leaders (Hillary really did herself in with that quip about deplorables - it confirmed all those folks' paranoid fears about how the "elite" feel about them).

There is a lot of talk on this thread about treatment of flags, etc... To my way of seeing it, there are very few things more American, more Patriotic, than exercising the freedoms of this country to burn a flag in protest. That should give you some insight into my overall view of the topic at hand.

A flag is a symbol - the why of your interaction with it is far more important than the how.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.

But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.

It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.

So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.

Lot of good stuff packed into y'all's posts on this.

If you are going to get to the core, I think MD nails it with "Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic"

Interestingly MD, it is the answer to the last part of my clipped version of your post. Excluding the people who really are just plain hateful, I think there are a lot of quite honorable and idealistic people wrapping themselves in the flag doing things that that you characterize as demonstrating hate, dislike and distrust our form of government - but the reality is, they love our form of government. And they are extremely disappointed in how our elected officials are exercising their power within (and probably in their opinion against) that governmental framework. There are a lot of people who feel unrepresented and looked down upon by our leaders (Hillary really did herself in with that quip about deplorables - it confirmed all those folks' paranoid fears about how the "elite" feel about them).

There is a lot of talk on this thread about treatment of flags, etc... To my way of seeing it, there are very few things more American, more Patriotic, than exercising the freedoms of this country to burn a flag in protest. That should give you some insight into my overall view of the topic at hand.

A flag is a symbol - the why of your interaction with it is far more important than the how.

Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as a deplorable person?

At least maybe 1 of these folks is deplorable….maybe.



Pretty sure they have a good reason WHY they chose to carry those flags.

[MDlaxfan76]

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.

But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.

It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.

So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.

Lot of good stuff packed into y'all's posts on this.

If you are going to get to the core, I think MD nails it with "Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic"

Interestingly MD, it is the answer to the last part of my clipped version of your post. Excluding the people who really are just plain hateful, I think there are a lot of quite honorable and idealistic people wrapping themselves in the flag doing things that that you characterize as demonstrating hate, dislike and distrust our form of government - but the reality is, they love our form of government. And they are extremely disappointed in how our elected officials are exercising their power within (and probably in their opinion against) that governmental framework. There are a lot of people who feel unrepresented and looked down upon by our leaders (Hillary really did herself in with that quip about deplorables - it confirmed all those folks' paranoid fears about how the "elite" feel about them).

There is a lot of talk on this thread about treatment of flags, etc... To my way of seeing it, there are very few things more American, more Patriotic, than exercising the freedoms of this country to burn a flag in protest. That should give you some insight into my overall view of the topic at hand.

A flag is a symbol - the why of your interaction with it is far more important than the how.

Certainly plenty to agree with above, HooDat.

And certainly protests intended to draw attention to ways that government, meaning elected officials and civil servants, are utilizing their powers and the trust of the people, or misusing them, or failing to use them can be a quite patriotic act. That is, IF the intention is to work within the law to better live up to our ideals.

But what I’m observing is a heck of a lot of people communicating a willingness to use violence, outside of our laws and Constitutional processes merely for power. Whether that motivation is based in fear or distrust of others exercising power, they are apparently willing to forego Constitutional process, democracy, and the rule of law.

And that ain’t American patriotism.

[kramerica.inc]

[Farfromgeneva]

I suspect there are pics that aren't altered in all sorts of ways...whose hands are those, anyway?!

Why would you ruin it for me and WHY did you notice the hands at all?

At some point I wondered to myself if I spent too much time evaluating her facial features and NEVER looked at the hands until you brought it up!

[Farfromgeneva]

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.

But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.

It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.

So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.

Lot of good stuff packed into y'all's posts on this.

If you are going to get to the core, I think MD nails it with "Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic"

Interestingly MD, it is the answer to the last part of my clipped version of your post. Excluding the people who really are just plain hateful, I think there are a lot of quite honorable and idealistic people wrapping themselves in the flag doing things that that you characterize as demonstrating hate, dislike and distrust our form of government - but the reality is, they love our form of government. And they are extremely disappointed in how our elected officials are exercising their power within (and probably in their opinion against) that governmental framework. There are a lot of people who feel unrepresented and looked down upon by our leaders (Hillary really did herself in with that quip about deplorables - it confirmed all those folks' paranoid fears about how the "elite" feel about them).

There is a lot of talk on this thread about treatment of flags, etc... To my way of seeing it, there are very few things more American, more Patriotic, than exercising the freedoms of this country to burn a flag in protest. That should give you some insight into my overall view of the topic at hand.

A flag is a symbol - the why of your interaction with it is far more important than the how.

Certainly plenty to agree with above, HooDat.

And certainly protests intended to draw attention to ways that government, meaning elected officials and civil servants, are utilizing their powers and the trust of the people, or misusing them, or failing to use them can be a quite patriotic act. That is, IF the intention is to work within the law to better live up to our ideals.

But what I’m observing is a heck of a lot of people communicating a willingness to use violence, outside of our laws and Constitutional processes merely for power. Whether that motivation is based in fear or distrust of others exercising power, they are apparently willing to forego Constitutional process, democracy, and the rule of law.

And that ain’t American patriotism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6hkSF9PxdWs

[HooDat]

Very, VERY nice! love that song


edited to add - it is now stuck in my head...

[HooDat]

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.

But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.

It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.

So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.

Lot of good stuff packed into y'all's posts on this.

If you are going to get to the core, I think MD nails it with "Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic"

Interestingly MD, it is the answer to the last part of my clipped version of your post. Excluding the people who really are just plain hateful, I think there are a lot of quite honorable and idealistic people wrapping themselves in the flag doing things that that you characterize as demonstrating hate, dislike and distrust our form of government - but the reality is, they love our form of government. And they are extremely disappointed in how our elected officials are exercising their power within (and probably in their opinion against) that governmental framework. There are a lot of people who feel unrepresented and looked down upon by our leaders (Hillary really did herself in with that quip about deplorables - it confirmed all those folks' paranoid fears about how the "elite" feel about them).

There is a lot of talk on this thread about treatment of flags, etc... To my way of seeing it, there are very few things more American, more Patriotic, than exercising the freedoms of this country to burn a flag in protest. That should give you some insight into my overall view of the topic at hand.

A flag is a symbol - the why of your interaction with it is far more important than the how.

Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as a deplorable person?

At least maybe 1 of these folks is deplorable….maybe.



Pretty sure they have a good reason WHY they chose to carry those flags.

I am pretty sure there is a good reason why you chose that picture. Maybe some kind of kink we should know about?

Funny enough, I don't see a single US flag in your photo.

And, your reply makes it clear you didn't read what I wrote.

Excluding the people who really are just plain hateful,

Or perhaps you just like to take things out of context and cast aspersions?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.

But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.

It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.

So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.

Lot of good stuff packed into y'all's posts on this.

If you are going to get to the core, I think MD nails it with "Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic"

Interestingly MD, it is the answer to the last part of my clipped version of your post. Excluding the people who really are just plain hateful, I think there are a lot of quite honorable and idealistic people wrapping themselves in the flag doing things that that you characterize as demonstrating hate, dislike and distrust our form of government - but the reality is, they love our form of government. And they are extremely disappointed in how our elected officials are exercising their power within (and probably in their opinion against) that governmental framework. There are a lot of people who feel unrepresented and looked down upon by our leaders (Hillary really did herself in with that quip about deplorables - it confirmed all those folks' paranoid fears about how the "elite" feel about them).

There is a lot of talk on this thread about treatment of flags, etc... To my way of seeing it, there are very few things more American, more Patriotic, than exercising the freedoms of this country to burn a flag in protest. That should give you some insight into my overall view of the topic at hand.

A flag is a symbol - the why of your interaction with it is far more important than the how.

Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as a deplorable person?

At least maybe 1 of these folks is deplorable….maybe.



Pretty sure they have a good reason WHY they chose to carry those flags.

I am pretty sure there is a good reason why you chose that picture. Maybe some kind of kink we should know about?

Funny enough, I don't see a single US flag in your photo.

And, your reply makes it clear you didn't read what I wrote.

Excluding the people who really are just plain hateful,

Or perhaps you just like to take things out of context and cast aspersions?

The photo was posted shortly before mine, so it was timely. Look up the thread. Deplorables. I read what you wrote. No issue with it. I was just focused on “deplorables”. Basically the shoe fit. It cost Hillary the election but Trump drew some deplorables….(despicable could have been used). Did I take that out of context?

[HooDat]

The photo was posted shortly before mine, so it was timely. Look up the thread. Deplorables. I read what you wrote. No issue with it. I was just focused on “deplorables”. Basically the shoe fit. It cost Hillary the election but Trump drew some deplorables….(despicable could have been used). Did I take that out of context?

You sure did. Where did I say there weren't deplorable people in the world? I noted the opposite when I referenced people that are hateful.

My point was that Hillary overplayed her hand - exposing the fact that she believes that basically anyone who wouldn't vote for her is part of the crowd in that picture. I believe her exact words were that half of the GOP fell into that basket of deplorables. That type of "othering" shuts off all civil debate and more importantly adds fuel to the divisive fires that are plaguing this country.

And while even one is too many, the number of idiots who think and act that way is thankfully very small relative to the overall make-up of the country. And the people who do think that way - are in fact deplorable people.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The photo was posted shortly before mine, so it was timely. Look up the thread. Deplorables. I read what you wrote. No issue with it. I was just focused on “deplorables”. Basically the shoe fit. It cost Hillary the election but Trump drew some deplorables….(despicable could have been used). Did I take that out of context?

You sure did. Where did I say there weren't deplorable people in the world? I noted the opposite when I referenced people that are hateful.

My point was that Hillary overplayed her hand - exposing the fact that she believes that basically anyone who wouldn't vote for her is part of the crowd in that picture. I believe her exact words were that half of the GOP fell into that basket of deplorables. That type of "othering" shuts off all civil debate and more importantly adds fuel to the divisive fires that are plaguing this country.

And while even one is too many, the number of idiots who think and act that way is thankfully very small relative to the overall make-up of the country. And the people who do think that way - are in fact deplorable people.

You didn’t say here were no deplorable people and I don’t believe I said you did. Maybe I read too much into your characterization of Hillary’s use of the word. It came across as the use was unjustified. Maybe that’s not what you meant. Part of the problem with print. You lose some nuance. As for 1/2 the GOP, we all exaggerate. She was directionally accurate. You know what Hillary believes or is that your opinion? Everyone’s opinion can be wrong, you know. Maybe Hillary told you that is what she “believes”.

As for the small percentage of people that act that way….sometimes some folks can have an outsized influence. I often wonder where these people work and if they are responsible for hiring and managing folk…. Hard to have civil debate with some folks. The average American ain’t a professional and ain’t required to be.