Middies Wins Championships

[HooDat]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Agree with you here. I particularly like a great goalie that is adept at initiating fast breaks the other way. Clean saves and quick crisp outlet passes that get a break going the other way can really get a team on a run.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

[HooDat]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

And tbh, I think they were one bum ankle (?) away from winning it all.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

And tbh, I think they were one bum ankle (?) away from winning it all.

Yep. Gural and Kelly were the real difference makers and that defense was underrated….(it was a foot, technically).

[a fan]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

And tbh, I think they were one bum ankle (?) away from winning it all.

Yep. Gural and Kelly were the real difference makers and that defense was underrated….(it was a foot, technically).

I'm very, very surprised no one picked "best attackman". To my eyes, it's the one thing all these championship teams have..an elite attackman the D can't stop....and gets everything moving on O.

The last several champs have had a lights out attackman. Reeves, Bernhart, Schellenberger, Rambo, Berg, Cloutier, Wolfe...

Like, 100% of them. No exceptions.

[DMac]

Thompsons, Peter Baum, Rob Pannell, all T Award winners and elite attackmen, none ever won the championship.
Even the Gait era teams were loaded with top notch players all over the field. Attack, midfield, defense, and Matty
wasn't bad in the cage. Again, you pretty much have to have it all to win the championship.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

And tbh, I think they were one bum ankle (?) away from winning it all.

Yep. Gural and Kelly were the real difference makers and that defense was underrated….(it was a foot, technically).

I'm very, very surprised no one picked "best attackman". To my eyes, it's the one thing all these championship teams have..an elite attackman the D can't stop....and gets everything moving on O.

The last several champs have had a lights out attackman. Reeves, Bernhart, Schellenberger, Rambo, Berg, Cloutier, Wolfe...

Like, 100% of them. No exceptions.

Thompson, Teat, Sowers, Spencer and a bunch of others didn't win. It is a team effort but give me a top 3 goalie and a top 3 fogo and you got something to work with. Will make a good team great and a great team a champion.

[wgdsr]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

And tbh, I think they were one bum ankle (?) away from winning it all.

Yep. Gural and Kelly were the real difference makers and that defense was underrated….(it was a foot, technically).

I'm very, very surprised no one picked "best attackman". To my eyes, it's the one thing all these championship teams have..an elite attackman the D can't stop....and gets everything moving on O.

The last several champs have had a lights out attackman. Reeves, Bernhart, Schellenberger, Rambo, Berg, Cloutier, Wolfe...

Like, 100% of them. No exceptions.

this seems to have gone pretty far astray from the original question. which was, assuming you don't have any other players, which is the key and who would you choose first (best att, fogo or goalie).

so if i'm in the acc, for example, if some other guy took the best att in that conference (say for argument it's the above shellenberger) i can get a kavanaugh if i'm at nd, gray at unc, dordevic at cuse or o'neill at duke. the advantage just isn't that great to my competition. because they're gonna have a very good guy, too. same goes for any top contenders.

but if i had sisselberger or wierman to get whomever and their buds the ball, it's checkmate. the top fogo generally reigns supreme. if i smoke you on possessions, there's a good chance almost your entire team has to kick my ass to win that day. and if i have a proximate team, that's a very tall order.

[a fan]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

And tbh, I think they were one bum ankle (?) away from winning it all.

Yep. Gural and Kelly were the real difference makers and that defense was underrated….(it was a foot, technically).

I'm very, very surprised no one picked "best attackman". To my eyes, it's the one thing all these championship teams have..an elite attackman the D can't stop....and gets everything moving on O.

The last several champs have had a lights out attackman. Reeves, Bernhart, Schellenberger, Rambo, Berg, Cloutier, Wolfe...

Like, 100% of them. No exceptions.

Thompson, Teat, Sowers, Spencer and a bunch of others didn't win.

Yes. I didn't say that you win when you have them. Plenty of non-FF teams have had the best fogo or best goalie.

I implied that you can't win it all without one of those elite attackman on your team.

[a fan]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

And tbh, I think they were one bum ankle (?) away from winning it all.

Yep. Gural and Kelly were the real difference makers and that defense was underrated….(it was a foot, technically).

I'm very, very surprised no one picked "best attackman". To my eyes, it's the one thing all these championship teams have..an elite attackman the D can't stop....and gets everything moving on O.

The last several champs have had a lights out attackman. Reeves, Bernhart, Schellenberger, Rambo, Berg, Cloutier, Wolfe...

Like, 100% of them. No exceptions.

this seems to have gone pretty far astray from the original question.

Yes. That's because I worded the question poorly....so everyone had different ideas as to what the question was.

My bad. Sorry about that....

Given your interpretation of my question, I get why you'd want the top FOGO. Makes perfect sense.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I will take a well-balanced team over anything. But for the sake of discussion-

A pretty good coach once told me that lacrosse is all about runs.
One goal doesn't break a team. 2 or 3 in a row does.
So always try to stop the bleeding with a ground ball or save and then a good offensive possession.
Give up less runs and smaller runs than the opponent and your team wins.

So gimme the best goalie in the nation and a pretty good fogo. A top goalie can save everything he should and a few he shouldn't stop. It gets an opponent thinking to themselves and doubting every shot. Possession also helps at limiting opponents. And it creates those runs. That goes a long way at accomplishing the mission.

Sounds like the 2016 Brown lacrosse team.

And tbh, I think they were one bum ankle (?) away from winning it all.

Yep. Gural and Kelly were the real difference makers and that defense was underrated….(it was a foot, technically).

I'm very, very surprised no one picked "best attackman". To my eyes, it's the one thing all these championship teams have..an elite attackman the D can't stop....and gets everything moving on O.

The last several champs have had a lights out attackman. Reeves, Bernhart, Schellenberger, Rambo, Berg, Cloutier, Wolfe...

Like, 100% of them. No exceptions.

Thompson, Teat, Sowers, Spencer and a bunch of others didn't win.

Yes. I didn't say that you win when you have them. Plenty of non-FF teams have had the best fogo or best goalie.

I implied that you can't win it all without one of those elite attackman on your team.

Cloutier is an outlier (compared to the others). That team barely made the tournament. Who were the attackmen on the Loyola team? The shooter was lights out but wouldn’t say Loyola won because they had an alpha attackman.

[youthathletics]

SSDM Hawkins for Loyola was legit....that shooter was Eric Lusby, along with Sawyer and Ward. Was the games at Navy that day. Mark Matthews was my sons favorite player at the time, his final goal in that game was sexy as hell, when he caught it one handed up in the air, turned and punched it in.

[HGK]

Graham Bundy can shoot, feed, ride and a great leader. I am not sure I agree that midfielders win championships. Think it’s much more collective but i had to tie myself to one middie horse, it would be Bundy.

[10stone5]

SSDM Hawkins for Loyola was legit....that shooter was Eric Lusby, along with Sawyer and Ward. Was the games at Navy that day. Mark Matthews was my sons favorite player at the time, his final goal in that game was sexy as hell, when he caught it one handed up in the air, turned and punched it in.

Yes,

Lusby was unreal,
one of my favorite all-time tournament individual runs.

[Typical Lax Dad]

SSDM Hawkins for Loyola was legit....that shooter was Eric Lusby, along with Sawyer and Ward. Was the games at Navy that day. Mark Matthews was my sons favorite player at the time, his final goal in that game was sexy as hell, when he caught it one handed up in the air, turned and punched it in.

Yes,

Lusby was unreal,
one of my favorite all-time tournament individual runs.

Lusby had a picture perfect shooting stroke.

[Typical Lax Dad]

SSDM Hawkins for Loyola was legit....that shooter was Eric Lusby, along with Sawyer and Ward. Was the games at Navy that day. Mark Matthews was my sons favorite player at the time, his final goal in that game was sexy as hell, when he caught it one handed up in the air, turned and punched it in.

Yep

[Farfromgeneva]

At the end of the day, lacrosse is won on the field.

The great teams have great teams.

But if you have to break it down, great FO’s keep great middies off the field (and then the rules get changed), great goalies don’t care who is shooting, great attackers make middies jobs easier, great defenses slow down (don’t stop) great offenses.

The really great middies face-off and play both ways. Rare, but dominating.

Hate that slow-down, positional substitution. Anathema to the free-flowing game I played and loved.

Want that slow shite? Play fool(foot)ball and be done with it.

Was there honestly anyone better at that in the modern era than Jon Reese?

[Farfromgeneva]

pizza going back 30-50 years.

I'm just pleased that not one person is claiming that Coaching wins D1 Lax Championships. Sounds like the crew has finally figured it out!

Related tot he conversation......I did a poll in the early days of Laxpower that would have been fun to revisit now that it's 20 years later.

...If you had to pick one, which would you pick:

-The best Goalie in D1
-The best Attackman in D1
-The best fogo in D1

Obviously it changes with the game over time but think about that mid 2000s period with the question.

You had Alex Smith’s Del make the quarters beating UvA. UMBC was midfield driven and had their best season ever under Zim, Seibalds Cornell teams and Doc Schneider take UMass to the finals in 06: (they had an elite D around him and some excellent offensive players but he was to me the best goalie at least in the decade of the 2000s).

Setting aside the Duke issue that’s stretch had some fun outside teams with extreme strengths go far.

[Farfromgeneva]

probably just best fogo. but if i had a v good fogo, i might choose goalie. and vice versa.

but as asked... #1 draft pick, starting a team... i'd take fogo. and it's not close.

Am curious, wgdsr, were you thinking of me when you wrote that?

Had you chosen TD first in building the Danes, or the Bulldogs, or the Pioneers,
nary a championship you would have.

Doc Schneider couldn’t beat UVA. McElroy last year. attack is easy to list studs who didn’t go far. But goalies need more around them too no matter how great they are.

Answer is really total team but id go FOGO too.

[Farfromgeneva]

Just had a four week sample size of this in the UA Women's Lacrosse League where new teams are chosen each week by team captains. Choosing from the best in the country (minus a few who have now retired) Ally Mastroianni, an absolute workhorse who is a force at both ends of the field and a darn good draw control girl too (a complete player) was chosen number one two out of the four weeks. Charolette North, strictly an offensive player and big threat to score who can also take draws (not dominating there though), was chosen number one two weeks too. The teams that chose Mastroianni first faired better than the teams that chose North first but there's a whole lot more going on there than just those two. Ultimately it was the GK, Moreno, who was crowned the champion though. A good GK is definitely high on the list when choosing a team.

I get, but you can''t compare men's lax to women's lax. They are two completely different sports.

UA women's lacrosse is very similar to mlax (some might see it as the most shining example of wlax's inexorable march to mlax ). 10 v 10, 6 v 6 at each end, 3 v 3 at the draw, no shooting space, no 3 seconds. Draws, possessions, GKs, TOs, CTOs, GBs, etc, equally as important in that game.

Watching my daughter play now as a child the draw is so different. Not to mention the whole not checking thing. She’s the smallest and youngest on her team and has argued with regard twice last spring for getting whistled for illegal checking. I told her it’s fine and she should keep manhandling her older brother int he backyard for practice .