All Things Russia & Ukraine

[MDlaxfan76]

Question: what do you think will happen to Putin if he Ukrainian forces push him out of Russia, Doc? What do you think will happen to Putin if he "loses"?

...& what will that prompt Putin to do ?

Old Salt gets why I'm asking the question....

So, tell us what you think he will do...given that you don't think we can know what Putin thinks...

I do think my question set at the end, above, is big and hairy...

EDIT...looks like you just answered...

I. don't. know. No clue.

The ONLY thing I said is: I wouldn't bet against Putin using nukes if Ukraine manages to fulfill Doc's wishes and "win", and starts lobbing missiles into Russia. That's not even close to the same thing as "he'll use nukes for sure". I don't know what he'll do. And I don't know what he'll settle for in Ukraine.

Yeah, anything that is "settled for" with Putin is only temporary...that's the problem. He's never going to be permanently satisfied with only a partial 'win' toward his rather delusional aspirations. and any show of Western weakness, fecklessness only strengthens his propaganda hand, both internally and around the world.

And yeah, gotta be careful about the "lobbing"...I understand the Biden administration being careful...

[PizzaSnake]

Question: what do you think will happen to Putin if he Ukrainian forces push him out of Russia, Doc? What do you think will happen to Putin if he "loses"?

...& what will that prompt Putin to do ?

Old Salt gets why I'm asking the question....

So, tell us what you think he will do...given that you don't think we can know what Putin thinks...

I do think my question set at the end, above, is big and hairy...

EDIT...looks like you just answered...

I. don't. know. No clue.

The ONLY thing I said is: I wouldn't bet against Putin using nukes if Ukraine manages to fulfill Doc's wishes and "win", and starts lobbing missiles into Russia. That's not even close to the same thing as "he'll use nukes for sure". I don't know what he'll do. And I don't know what he'll settle for in Ukraine.

What will NATO “settle” for?

Cause Putin won’t, can’t stop.

[youthathletics]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

[old salt]

I don't understand what you think is difficult to understand re Putin...he's been incredibly clear, repeatedly, about what he "wants", speech after speech over years and years of such, as well as contemporaneously. We just didn't want to believe he'd act on those grandiose aspirations. He and his diplomats claimed he wouldn't, then did...

What's to understand ? I've been paying attention to what Putin says, & taking him seriously, since his Munich conf speech in 2007.
That's why I groused, at every opportunity, about NATO free riders.

Wanting something is not the same thing as having the means to accomplish it. I didn't offer him a reset button.

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't understand what you think is difficult to understand re Putin...he's been incredibly clear, repeatedly, about what he "wants", speech after speech over years and years of such, as well as contemporaneously. We just didn't want to believe he'd act on those grandiose aspirations. He and his diplomats claimed he wouldn't, then did...

What's to understand ? I've been paying attention to what Putin says, & taking him seriously, since his Munich conf speech in 2007.
That's why I groused, at every opportunity, about NATO free riders.

Wanting something is not the same thing as having the means to accomplish it. I didn't offer him a reset button.

My query was to a fan, not you.
I think we know darn well what Putin's ambitions are, "we" just had difficulty believing he'd act on them this way.

My disagreements with you were that I thought you didn't take adequately seriously how aggressive Putin was being in working to undermine democracies, and to prop up right wing movements inside democracies throughout the west. Asymmetric warfare.

And that included his relationship with Trump and a whole bunch of other forays into influence through the GOP...probing for weakness of character, exploiting divisiveness, sowing division...

My view was that he was acting on his ambitions with all the means at his disposal and we shouldn't underestimate how effective those efforts could be with time. And I think that's going to be the case going forward, as long as he's in power.

[MDlaxfan76]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

But yes, in the spirit of wishful thinking, it would indeed spare lives and that, at least, is not a laughing matter.

[a fan]

I don't understand what you think is difficult to understand re Putin...he's been incredibly clear, repeatedly, about what he "wants", speech after speech over years and years of such, as well as contemporaneously. We just didn't want to believe he'd act on those grandiose aspirations. He and his diplomats claimed he wouldn't, then did...

What's to understand ? I've been paying attention to what Putin says, & taking him seriously, since his Munich conf speech in 2007.
That's why I groused, at every opportunity, about NATO free riders.

Wanting something is not the same thing as having the means to accomplish it. I didn't offer him a reset button.

If Putin had taken that reset, and worked to become a key trading partner with America?

Putin personally....and the Russian people....would be light years ahead of where they are now. Putin foolishly chose guns over butter.

Bad choice.

[old salt]

Putin in drag ?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-putin-w ... 1656952454

If Putin Was a Woman . . .’
To grasp the Russian president’s worldview, just binge-watch ‘Catherine the Great.’
by Walter Russell Mead, July 4, 2022

We live in an age of bad gender punditry, and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has contributed to the confusion. Speaking to German media between the Group of Seven and NATO summits late last month, he offered the following wisdom: “If Putin was a woman, which he obviously isn’t, but if he were, I really don’t think he would have embarked on a crazy, macho war of invasion and violence in the way that he has. If you want a perfect example of toxic masculinity, it’s what he is doing in Ukraine.”

One hopes this was the reflexive and insincere pandering of a career politician, because if Mr. Johnson and his G-7 colleagues actually believe this nonsense, the West is in even greater trouble than it appears.

Vladimir Putin isn’t trying to be more like Rambo. Among other heroes of Russian history, he is trying to imitate Catherine the Great. The most successful of a line of 18th-century rulers, mostly female, who expanded the empire of Peter the Great and made Russia the greatest land power in Europe, Catherine conquered the Crimea and western Ukraine. She won naval battles in the Black Sea and ruthlessly suppressed rebellions at home. Having installed a former lover as king of Poland, she gleefully took the lion’s share of that unhappy country while partitioning it three times.

Americans hoping to get beyond stereotypes to grasp Mr. Putin’s worldview should spend some time on the couch binge-watching “Ekaterina: The Rise of Catherine the Great.” This lushly produced costume drama, made with funding from the Russian Ministry of Information and presented in Russian with English subtitles on Amazon Prime, lets viewers see Russia the way Mr. Putin wants Russians to see it. It provides more insight into Putinist thinking than all the bloviations of the G-7 leaders.

In the series, Catherine overthrows her feckless husband, Peter III, and secures power by ordering the murder of a young ex-emperor and sanctioning Peter’s murder at the hand of her lover. When Peter, a slavish admirer and imitator of Prussian King Frederick the Great, came to power, he recalled Russian troops then occupying Berlin and conceded huge territories to Frederick in hope of building an alliance of values with Russia’s former foe. Like the liberals of the Yeltsin era, he sought to provide Russia with a modern Western-style constitution and generally to make Russia a European country. The hero who helps Catherine seize the throne—an officer from the Russian occupation force in Germany disgusted with Peter’s abject weakness in the face of Western arrogance—could remind Russian viewers of ex-KGB agent Vladimir Putin returning to the chaos of post-Soviet Russia from his German posting. In subsequent seasons, Catherine goes on to crush domestic opposition and defeat Russia’s eternal enemies to the west and south.

All the key beliefs of Putinism, represented as eternal truths about Russia and its place in the world, are on display in a series that is as entertaining as it is educational. All other countries hate and seek to ruin Russia. Talk of “values” in international relations is a cynical con by which the hostile West seeks to confuse and disarm Russia.

Russia is also threatened from within. Greedy officials, populist discontent and pretenders to power would pull Russia to bits if left to themselves. Foreign enemies are eager to join forces with domestic ones, constantly probing to weaken Russia. Corruption is chronic; no government can ever root it out. But some corrupt officials are loyal to Russia; others are paid agents of foreign powers.

Only a strong ruler, exempted from the restraints of conventional morality and armed with a powerful internal security apparatus that is free to use harsh measures can keep Russia safe. The burden of absolute power and the necessity of making hard and often soul-killingly ugly decisions isolate the ruler. But to bear this burden and make those ugly choices is the highest form of sacrificial idealism. The people give themselves to the ruler; the ruler gives up hope of private happiness for the people.

It doesn’t always work out well. Catherine’s armies faced many setbacks owing to endemic corruption, poor leadership and, often, the technological superiority of her enemies’ weapons. There was never enough money in the treasury. But successful rulers do not give up when the going gets tough. They, and the Russian people with them, dig in for a long, ugly war.

This is the picture Mr. Putin wants the Russian people to have of their current situation, and to a significant degree it is likely how he sees himself.

To your couches, Americans! Those who do not understand their enemies must brace for defeat. As long as G-7 leaders allow cheap gender stereotypes to fog their brains, Vladimir Putin can still hope to grind out a victory in Ukraine.

[old salt]

Putin in drag ?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-putin-w ... 1656952454

If Putin Was a Woman . . .’
To grasp the Russian president’s worldview, just binge-watch ‘Catherine the Great.’
by Walter Russell Mead, July 4, 2022

We live in an age of bad gender punditry, and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has contributed to the confusion. Speaking to German media between the Group of Seven and NATO summits late last month, he offered the following wisdom: “If Putin was a woman, which he obviously isn’t, but if he were, I really don’t think he would have embarked on a crazy, macho war of invasion and violence in the way that he has. If you want a perfect example of toxic masculinity, it’s what he is doing in Ukraine.”

One hopes this was the reflexive and insincere pandering of a career politician, because if Mr. Johnson and his G-7 colleagues actually believe this nonsense, the West is in even greater trouble than it appears.

Vladimir Putin isn’t trying to be more like Rambo. Among other heroes of Russian history, he is trying to imitate Catherine the Great. The most successful of a line of 18th-century rulers, mostly female, who expanded the empire of Peter the Great and made Russia the greatest land power in Europe, Catherine conquered the Crimea and western Ukraine. She won naval battles in the Black Sea and ruthlessly suppressed rebellions at home. Having installed a former lover as king of Poland, she gleefully took the lion’s share of that unhappy country while partitioning it three times.

Americans hoping to get beyond stereotypes to grasp Mr. Putin’s worldview should spend some time on the couch binge-watching “Ekaterina: The Rise of Catherine the Great.” This lushly produced costume drama, made with funding from the Russian Ministry of Information and presented in Russian with English subtitles on Amazon Prime, lets viewers see Russia the way Mr. Putin wants Russians to see it. It provides more insight into Putinist thinking than all the bloviations of the G-7 leaders.

In the series, Catherine overthrows her feckless husband, Peter III, and secures power by ordering the murder of a young ex-emperor and sanctioning Peter’s murder at the hand of her lover. When Peter, a slavish admirer and imitator of Prussian King Frederick the Great, came to power, he recalled Russian troops then occupying Berlin and conceded huge territories to Frederick in hope of building an alliance of values with Russia’s former foe. Like the liberals of the Yeltsin era, he sought to provide Russia with a modern Western-style constitution and generally to make Russia a European country. The hero who helps Catherine seize the throne—an officer from the Russian occupation force in Germany disgusted with Peter’s abject weakness in the face of Western arrogance—could remind Russian viewers of ex-KGB agent Vladimir Putin returning to the chaos of post-Soviet Russia from his German posting. In subsequent seasons, Catherine goes on to crush domestic opposition and defeat Russia’s eternal enemies to the west and south.

All the key beliefs of Putinism, represented as eternal truths about Russia and its place in the world, are on display in a series that is as entertaining as it is educational. All other countries hate and seek to ruin Russia. Talk of “values” in international relations is a cynical con by which the hostile West seeks to confuse and disarm Russia.

Russia is also threatened from within. Greedy officials, populist discontent and pretenders to power would pull Russia to bits if left to themselves. Foreign enemies are eager to join forces with domestic ones, constantly probing to weaken Russia. Corruption is chronic; no government can ever root it out. But some corrupt officials are loyal to Russia; others are paid agents of foreign powers.

Only a strong ruler, exempted from the restraints of conventional morality and armed with a powerful internal security apparatus that is free to use harsh measures can keep Russia safe. The burden of absolute power and the necessity of making hard and often soul-killingly ugly decisions isolate the ruler. But to bear this burden and make those ugly choices is the highest form of sacrificial idealism. The people give themselves to the ruler; the ruler gives up hope of private happiness for the people.

It doesn’t always work out well. Catherine’s armies faced many setbacks owing to endemic corruption, poor leadership and, often, the technological superiority of her enemies’ weapons. There was never enough money in the treasury. But successful rulers do not give up when the going gets tough. They, and the Russian people with them, dig in for a long, ugly war.

This is the picture Mr. Putin wants the Russian people to have of their current situation, and to a significant degree it is likely how he sees himself.

To your couches, Americans! Those who do not understand their enemies must brace for defeat. As long as G-7 leaders allow cheap gender stereotypes to fog their brains, Vladimir Putin can still hope to grind out a victory in Ukraine.

[Kismet]

18 members of Congress in the House — all Republicans — just voted against a resolution expressing support for Finland and Sweden to join NATO.

The usual gang of idiots including Gaetz, Boebert, Greene, Biggs, Massie, Cawthorn, Roy and others

Real Patriots

[a fan]

18 members of Congress in the House — all Republicans — just voted against a resolution expressing support for Finland and Sweden to join NATO.

The usual gang of idiots including Gaetz, Boebert, Greene, Biggs, Massie, Cawthorn, Roy and others

Real Patriots

I have no problem with that, so long as they follow through with their fake "America First' stance.


That means that that they use their power and demand overseas base closures. And demand the cuts to military spending that go along with these closures and savings in changing our global strategy. If we're not going to play cop to the world anymore? Great news!. I want my money back, immediately....and start shutting down bases.

They won't do that, naturally, because this vote is simply virtue signaling to their TrumpBase.

[DocBarrister]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

Wait a minute … are you discussing Putin’s invasion of Russia or your personal life?!?



DocBarrister

[LaxFan2000]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

Wait a minute … are you discussing Putin’s invasion of Russia or your personal life?!?



DocBarrister

Jeez, your sense of humor is something else. Makes sense based on your recent posts. If you are looking for an echo chamber, use twitter..

[DocBarrister]

Question: what do you think will happen to Putin if he Ukrainian forces push him out of Russia, Doc? What do you think will happen to Putin if he "loses"?

...& what will that prompt Putin to do ?

Old Salt gets why I'm asking the question....

So, tell us what you think he will do...given that you don't think we can know what Putin thinks...

I do think my question set at the end, above, is big and hairy...

EDIT...looks like you just answered...

I. don't. know. No clue.

The ONLY thing I said is: I wouldn't bet against Putin using nukes if Ukraine manages to fulfill Doc's wishes and "win", and starts lobbing missiles into Russia. That's not even close to the same thing as "he'll use nukes for sure". I don't know what he'll do. And I don't know what he'll settle for in Ukraine.

Yeah, anything that is "settled for" with Putin is only temporary...that's the problem. He's never going to be permanently satisfied with only a partial 'win' toward his rather delusional aspirations. and any show of Western weakness, fecklessness only strengthens his propaganda hand, both internally and around the world.

And yeah, gotta be careful about the "lobbing"...I understand the Biden administration being careful...

I don’t think anyone is certain how this will all end.

I suspect Putin would level Kyiv and every other major city in Ukraine before he concedes defeat. That doesn’t mean he will use nukes, but that cannot be ruled out either.

Putin will not accept any “off-ramp” from Ukraine or the allies.

But he is already expressing fear that Ukraine will begin attacking Crimea.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-threate ... 5383?amp=1

Putin will not accept anything less than territorial control over most of Ukraine and de facto control over the government in Kyiv. That much is clear.

It’s also clear that Ukraine will never accept that outcome, and neither will the United States, NATO, and the EU.

If I had to guess, and it is an informed but still speculative guess, I would surmise the end of the war looking like this ugly, tragic mess:

(1) Most major Ukrainian cities are leveled, including Kyiv;

(2) both the Russian and Ukrainian militaries are exhausted with little functional capability remaining;

(3) over 100,000 Russian troops are dead;

(4) over 100,000 Ukrainians are dead;

(5) President Zelensky may be dead after being killed in a Russian bombardment of Kyiv;

(6) Putin lives, but his power is markedly diminished as Russian military and security forces belatedly restrict his control over Russia; Putin is indicted at The Hague as a war criminal;

(7) the United States and its allies have spent over $100 billion supporting Ukraine; and

(8) Putin’s war concludes with a messy stalemate where both sides have essentially lost.

I hope Putin’s demise comes long before that, but I don’t think this speculative ending is completely unrealistic.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

Wait a minute … are you discussing Putin’s invasion of Russia or your personal life?!?



DocBarrister

Jeez, your sense of humor is something else. Makes sense based on your recent posts. If you are looking for an echo chamber, use twitter..

What, you own a Pinto, too?

DocBarrister

[old salt]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

Wait a minute … are you discussing Putin’s invasion of Russia or your personal life?!?



DocBarrister

Jeez, your sense of humor is something else. Makes sense based on your recent posts. If you are looking for an echo chamber, use twitter..

What, you own a Pinto, too?

DocBarrister

Wait a second. Let's go ez on the Pinto. I purchased a 'gently used 74 Pinto station wagon in 1977 for $2500 with 45k miles, (after a 6 mos waiting list for a new Honda Accord, then being told I'd have to pay an extra $500 to the dealer for paying sticker price for the Accord). Pinto wagon was a great little car -- peppy, tight 4 on the floor, stayed in the family for 10 years, passing 150k miles. Simple enough to do routine maint myself. The Pinto wagon was a great little hauler with back seat down, room to stretch out & sleep when camping or driving x-country. The extra body work of the station wagon provided the necessary crush zone that negated the exploding fuel tank hazard of the coupe. It was a much better car than it's successor -- an '81 Datsun B-210 wagon, which immediately became a rust bucket because of faulty designed rear wheel well body panel ledges.

[CU88]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

Wait a minute … are you discussing Putin’s invasion of Russia or your personal life?!?



DocBarrister

Jeez, your sense of humor is something else. Makes sense based on your recent posts. If you are looking for an echo chamber, use twitter..

What, you own a Pinto, too?

DocBarrister

Wait a second. Let's go ez on the Pinto. I purchased a 'gently used 74 Pinto station wagon in 1977 for $2500 with 45k miles, (after a 6 mos waiting list for a new Honda Accord, then being told I'd have to pay an extra $500 to the dealer for paying sticker price for the Accord). Pinto wagon was a great little car -- peppy, tight 4 on the floor, stayed in the family for 10 years, passing 150k miles. Simple enough to do routine maint myself. The Pinto wagon was a great little hauler with back seat down, room to stretch out & sleep when camping or driving x-country. The extra body work of the station wagon provided the necessary crush zone that negated the exploding fuel tank hazard of the coupe. It was a much better car than it's successor -- an '81 Datsun B-210 wagon, which immediately became a rust bucket because of faulty designed rear wheel well body panel ledges.

What color was your Pinto? My wifes family had a pea green that I fear will come back to cars some day, just brutal.
We had a '79 Datsun 510 hatchback that ended up being a camp "truck" for hauling firewood. Ran FOREVER, but it was indeed a rust bucket after years of winter road salt in central NY.

I laugh when I think about Ralph Nader saying the automakers chose "style over safety"; I know he was right, but man was he so wrong...

[DocBarrister]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

Wait a minute … are you discussing Putin’s invasion of Russia or your personal life?!?



DocBarrister

Jeez, your sense of humor is something else. Makes sense based on your recent posts. If you are looking for an echo chamber, use twitter..

What, you own a Pinto, too?

DocBarrister

Wait a second. Let's go ez on the Pinto. I purchased a 'gently used 74 Pinto station wagon in 1977 for $2500 with 45k miles, (after a 6 mos waiting list for a new Honda Accord, then being told I'd have to pay an extra $500 to the dealer for paying sticker price for the Accord). Pinto wagon was a great little car -- peppy, tight 4 on the floor, stayed in the family for 10 years, passing 150k miles. Simple enough to do routine maint myself. The Pinto wagon was a great little hauler with back seat down, room to stretch out & sleep when camping or driving x-country. The extra body work of the station wagon provided the necessary crush zone that negated the exploding fuel tank hazard of the coupe. It was a much better car than it's successor -- an '81 Datsun B-210 wagon, which immediately became a rust bucket because of faulty designed rear wheel well body panel ledges.

What color was your Pinto? My wifes family had a pea green that I fear will come back to cars some day, just brutal.
We had a '79 Datsun 510 hatchback that ended up being a camp "truck" for hauling firewood. Ran FOREVER, but it was indeed a rust bucket after years of winter road salt in central NY.

I laugh when I think about Ralph Nader saying the automakers chose "style over safety"; I know he was right, but man was he so wrong...

Heh, heh.

From Top Secret!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GGDOUDLhc

Nazis, Val Kilmer, and an exploding Pinto. A masterpiece.

DocBarrister

[CU88]

Quietly, I believe Putin wants Russia to be viewed as an equal in the world. He is envious of the USA, but got knocked up by China in the backseat of his Pinto after cussing out the stepdad...he's caught in a rock and hard place. I think his way out of this is for USA and NATO to secretly give him an exit ramp...extend an olive branch to Russia on the DL, with an alliance that they are part of the greater good (lipstick on a pig at this point). Putin communicates to Russia that we are back and the he has negotiated for a prosperous Russia.

Wishful thinking....I know, but spares even more lives.

Wait a minute … are you discussing Putin’s invasion of Russia or your personal life?!?



DocBarrister

Jeez, your sense of humor is something else. Makes sense based on your recent posts. If you are looking for an echo chamber, use twitter..

What, you own a Pinto, too?

DocBarrister

Wait a second. Let's go ez on the Pinto. I purchased a 'gently used 74 Pinto station wagon in 1977 for $2500 with 45k miles, (after a 6 mos waiting list for a new Honda Accord, then being told I'd have to pay an extra $500 to the dealer for paying sticker price for the Accord). Pinto wagon was a great little car -- peppy, tight 4 on the floor, stayed in the family for 10 years, passing 150k miles. Simple enough to do routine maint myself. The Pinto wagon was a great little hauler with back seat down, room to stretch out & sleep when camping or driving x-country. The extra body work of the station wagon provided the necessary crush zone that negated the exploding fuel tank hazard of the coupe. It was a much better car than it's successor -- an '81 Datsun B-210 wagon, which immediately became a rust bucket because of faulty designed rear wheel well body panel ledges.

What color was your Pinto? My wifes family had a pea green that I fear will come back to cars some day, just brutal.
We had a '79 Datsun 510 hatchback that ended up being a camp "truck" for hauling firewood. Ran FOREVER, but it was indeed a rust bucket after years of winter road salt in central NY.

I laugh when I think about Ralph Nader saying the automakers chose "style over safety"; I know he was right, but man was he so wrong...

Heh, heh.

From Top Secret!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GGDOUDLhc

Nazis, Val Kilmer, and an exploding Pinto. A masterpiece.

DocBarrister

LOL!

[old salt]

Wait a second. Let's go ez on the Pinto. I purchased a 'gently used 74 Pinto station wagon in 1977 for $2500 with 45k miles, (after a 6 mos waiting list for a new Honda Accord, then being told I'd have to pay an extra $500 to the dealer for paying sticker price for the Accord). Pinto wagon was a great little car -- peppy, tight 4 on the floor, stayed in the family for 10 years, passing 150k miles. Simple enough to do routine maint myself. The Pinto wagon was a great little hauler with back seat down, room to stretch out & sleep when camping or driving x-country. The extra body work of the station wagon provided the necessary crush zone that negated the exploding fuel tank hazard of the coupe. It was a much better car than it's successor -- an '81 Datsun B-210 wagon, which immediately became a rust bucket because of faulty designed rear wheel well body panel ledges.

What color was your Pinto? My wifes family had a pea green that I fear will come back to cars some day, just brutal.
We had a '79 Datsun 510 hatchback that ended up being a camp "truck" for hauling firewood. Ran FOREVER, but it was indeed a rust bucket after years of winter road salt in central NY.

I laugh when I think about Ralph Nader saying the automakers chose "style over safety"; I know he was right, but man was he so wrong...

Gold metallic w/ saddle tan interior. Looked sharp.

this one is brown metallic => https://driveshare.com/car/1974-ford-pinto-2128/