old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:57 am
So now you're a Cold War denier & think 9-11 was faked.
Nope. I'm a smart man like you, who thinks before we send our own people to their death for no reason.
Pop Quiz: we sent our troops to die over "communism", and had a Cold War over it with the Soviets.
How come we didn't have one with China? Take your time, think about it, and then explain why we HAD to go to Vietnam. Or we HAD to arm the future AlQ with Charlie Wilson's stupid game.
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:53 pm
James Baker summed it up -- jobs. You didn't wait in the gas lines of the '70's.
Yes. I did. And you're telling me that you aren't smart enough that you can't figure out how to get energy to the US without sending troops to the ME?
I don't believe you.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:57 am
All in 1990, in a few months, before Iraq invaded Kuwait.
The technology was not avail then, or now, & takes decades to implement
Want me to solve your fake problem here, and still get oil from the ME?
Buy oil from Saddam. You remember him, right? You know: the guy Reagan bankrolled and armed? Why wouldn't we simply buy oil from "our guy"? As if all the wankers we get oil from in that region aren't corrupt ***holes, OS.
But setting that aside....you're "plan" from the gas lines until 1990 is to do nothing about US Energy policy. 15 years of doing nothing.
You just explained why our people get sent to places they can't find on a map to die because our leaders can't solve simple problems. And weren't you just mocking Germany for doing this exact thing with Russian energy? And yet here you are, telling me that the Germans have done the right thing. Make up your mind.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:57 am
..yes, yes, yes. We're all so much smarter when rewriting history in hindsight.
Nope. I'm the guy who wrote history in FORESIGHT, and you know it. Protested the Gulf War. Same with Iraq. Also the minute I was an adult, I got to work designing and operating a sustainable factory.....years before the word "sustainable" was invented. We use less energy, fewer and less materials, and far, far less water....because we've been facing a water crisis, too.
If I can do that? Surely our leaders with their far fancier degrees and far more smarts can figure out the simple, simple problem of getting oil from the ME. We CHOSE not the tackle the problem, and instead, waged war.
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:53 pm
You make no sense. That is not even a possibility under consideration. If we're in a shooting war, the last place we want our warships is bottled up in the Black Sea..
I'm making perfect sense. YOU are the one who claimed that for the last 50 years, the US kept sea lanes open. That's not happening right now. So either we have to do something....or you have to recognize that your dictum that we must keep all sea lanes open is merely a suggestion, and act accordingly.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:57 am
Do you really not understand why we fought the Cold War ?
Oh I do. Pretty clear to me that you don't.
Again, tell me: why didn't we fight a Cold War with China? The Cold War was about Communism, no? So...what gives?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:57 am
Do you really discount our strategic interest in keeping oil flowing out of the Persian Gulf ?
1000%. Think harder, OS. Want to hear a project my brother did for grad school at Stanford? A city in India couldn't keep up with power demand. They wanted to build more coal plants to "solve" the problem. My brother found out that the light bulbs in India back then were such an inefficient sh*tshow, that they consumed 5x the amount a modern US bulb consumed. Solution? Give away free light bulbs to every property owner for ten years, at 30% of the price of a new coal plant.
Your mind doesn't work like this, and you want to shoot first, and think some other time, when you get around to it. That's not how a wise 1st world country with the best Universities in the world is supposed to behave. We're not supposed to send our people home, wrapped in a flag simply because our leaders aren't in the mood to think through our problems.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:57 am
Do you really not understand why we went after the terrorists who attacked us & our allies ?
Yup. Because we were stupid enough to send our troops into NutJobIstan, and then act shocked and clutch pearls when they dare to hit us back.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:57 am
Those were all strategic interests. Our most pressing strategic interest in this war is bringing it to an end asap & getting the grain & energy flowing again.
And what if Russia keeps the ports, and doesn't allow Ukraine to use them? Now what?