Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

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youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:26 pm I doubt he made it up, speculating that he already knew the answer.
Great...so why isn't he sharing the number, how he arrived at that number, and moving on? He does that? Twitter will walk, obviously.

Come on.....he said that "as least 20%, and as much as 90% of accounts are bots". No serious person makes that dimwitted of a comment.
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

a fan wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:31 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:26 pm I doubt he made it up, speculating that he already knew the answer.
Great...so why isn't he sharing the number, how he arrived at that number, and moving on? He does that? Twitter will walk, obviously.

Come on.....he said that "as least 20%, and as much as 90% of accounts are bots". No serious person makes that dimwitted of a comment.
Musk is playing chess while the bankers, attorneys and twitter board members and management team are playing checkers.
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youthathletics
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:38 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:31 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:26 pm I doubt he made it up, speculating that he already knew the answer.
Great...so why isn't he sharing the number, how he arrived at that number, and moving on? He does that? Twitter will walk, obviously.

Come on.....he said that "as least 20%, and as much as 90% of accounts are bots". No serious person makes that dimwitted of a comment.
Musk is playing chess while the bankers, attorneys and twitter board members and management team are playing checkers.
Yes...b/c Musk has none of those careers working on his behalf. :roll:
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
jhu72
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by jhu72 »

Have to laugh at Orange Duce. When asked about Musk, he calls Musk a bullsh*t artist. Something Orange Duce and I agree on. :lol: I am sure our reasons are different.
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:05 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:38 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:31 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:26 pm I doubt he made it up, speculating that he already knew the answer.
Great...so why isn't he sharing the number, how he arrived at that number, and moving on? He does that? Twitter will walk, obviously.

Come on.....he said that "as least 20%, and as much as 90% of accounts are bots". No serious person makes that dimwitted of a comment.
Musk is playing chess while the bankers, attorneys and twitter board members and management team are playing checkers.
Yes...b/c Musk has none of those careers working on his behalf. :roll:
Re-read my post and put your thinking cap on.
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youthathletics
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:05 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:38 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:31 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:26 pm I doubt he made it up, speculating that he already knew the answer.
Great...so why isn't he sharing the number, how he arrived at that number, and moving on? He does that? Twitter will walk, obviously.

Come on.....he said that "as least 20%, and as much as 90% of accounts are bots". No serious person makes that dimwitted of a comment.
Musk is playing chess while the bankers, attorneys and twitter board members and management team are playing checkers.
Yes...b/c Musk has none of those careers working on his behalf. :roll:
Re-read my post and put your thinking cap on.
I am so accustomed to your sarcasm, I figured that’s what this was. 🤝
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Seacoaster(1)
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

More on Elon doing silly things and paying up after the fact; we'll see:

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/07/no-stra ... iled-deal/

"Musk’s fascination with this “bot” argument is stupid, but it’s become the all-encompassing mantra for Tesla Bros and the segment of right-wing social media that have curiously adopted Musk as a patron saint. As Matt Levine explained in great detail, this argument makes no sense:

'[Musk’s attorney Skadden’s Mike] Ringler says that “it appears that Twitter is dramatically understating the proportion of spam and false accounts represented in its mDAU count.” There is not a whisper of evidence for this claim, no hint that there might be evidence, no acknowledgement that a reasonable reader of this letter might want to see evidence. The only basis for the claim is that “preliminary analysis by Mr. Musk’s advisors of the information provided by Twitter to date causes Mr. Musk to strongly believe that the proportion of false and spam accounts included in the reported mDAU count is wildly higher than 5%.” Notice that Ringler does not say that the analysis shows that the bots are “wildly higher than 5%” of mDAUs: That would be a factual claim that, I suspect, Musk’s advisers know is false. They make only the subjective claim that Musk “strongly believes” it. I don’t even believe that he believes it! But that’s harder to disprove.'

Plus, as Levine points out, Musk went on record multiple times saying that he wanted to buy Twitter to fix the bot problem, making his claim that it would be a material adverse event to learn that there might be a bot problem laughable on its face.

Which brings us to Musk’s related but distinct argument that Twitter failed to give him the information he wants. As part of the merger agreement, Twitter committed to give Musk access to information to help complete the deal. On the back of this provision, Musk kept making onerous requests to set up a case for killing the deal. Back to Levine’s analysis:

And in fact Ringler’s letter makes it pretty clear that that’s what Musk was up to: He’d ask for information about bots, and they’d give it to him, and he’d ask for more, and he’d keep trying to get information that he could use to undermine Twitter’s SEC reports. He buried Twitter in an avalanche of demands for data

Coupled with a provision in the agreement that allows Twitter to not provide information that could hurt the competitiveness of the company and Musk’s insistence that he’s looking for information that would hurt the company he’s not setting up the best case for himself.

He now seems to galaxy brain believe that Twitter’s lawsuit will require it to fork over the “information” Musk thinks they’ve been hiding. Since Twitter’s representation was just that the SEC filings were correct and the SEC filings said that the company tests a random sampling to reach a statistically responsible estimate that bots are less than 5 percent of all users, it’s not clear what additional information would be relevant beyond what the company claims to have handed over already. Discovery is pretty powerful but it doesn’t let you just go fishing beyond the confines of the actual dispute at hand. If they performed sampling and got to 5 percent, discovery isn’t going to force them to conduct a different study to hypothetically find another 50 or 60 percent of all accounts being fake.

But Musk’s social media suggests he’s committed to wandering down this path anyway. I hope Skadden’s not getting paid in Dogecoin."
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:40 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:05 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:38 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:31 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:26 pm I doubt he made it up, speculating that he already knew the answer.
Great...so why isn't he sharing the number, how he arrived at that number, and moving on? He does that? Twitter will walk, obviously.

Come on.....he said that "as least 20%, and as much as 90% of accounts are bots". No serious person makes that dimwitted of a comment.
Musk is playing chess while the bankers, attorneys and twitter board members and management team are playing checkers.
Yes...b/c Musk has none of those careers working on his behalf. :roll:
Re-read my post and put your thinking cap on.
I am so accustomed to your sarcasm, I figured that’s what this was. 🤝
It's tough to put one's tongue in both cheeks simultaneously...but this exchange was pretty close...

switching gears, seems to me that Twitter (and other algorithmic social media) have an issue with not so much the raw # (or %) of false identity or bot accounts, but rather their percentage of all activity and, even more importantly, their impact directionally on the algorithm's presentation of posts...when directed to reinforce/amplify a particular message, these accounts/bots can have a vastly disproportionate impact.

And that's indeed a serious problem.

But it's not the one that appears to concern Elon.
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Kismet
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by Kismet »

I think its important to understand that Musk's Twitter experience is markedly different than the average user.

https://www.socialtracker.io/twitter/elonmusk/

He has a HUGE following and likely sees bots in greater numbers every day especially when he tweets something controversial. It's why he wants to force Twitter to identify all users going forward using that to justify how he contends how he could expand the platform exponentially at a profit. Debatable but essential to his potential motivations.

I'm beginning to wonder if his goal is to walk away paying the minimum breakup fee but to substantially damage Twitter in the aftermath. This may also explain the theory that he never really intended to buy the platform in the first place (at any price).

So even if they win in court, Twitter is looking down the barrel of quite a large amount of threats to their business.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/11/tech ... &smtyp=cur
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

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“I wish you would!”
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

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“I wish you would!”
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

oops, wonder whether this will be what Elon wants to have to answer about in the lawsuit?
Thinking not...
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

makes sense that this would be what the fakers/bots would do in order to build credibility and run under the radar...pernicious problem...

So, guys like Gates and Musk would probably understand that a lot of their followers aren't real...is this true for the celebrity accounts as well, or is this disproportionately the ones who attract political ire one way or another?
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by Kismet »

Yep. Twitter takes another HUGE hit at the January 6 hearing about how they handled the former DOPUS and his feed before they banned him.
Seems like they kind of knew where things were going from December 18 - January 6 and rode with it.
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

More on Elon ducking his promises:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/14/opin ... -musk.html

"Elon Musk is trying to walk away from his $44 billion agreement to buy Twitter, but the Court of Chancery in Delaware, where the company is incorporated and is now suing Mr. Musk, should order him to buy the social media company.

Forcing a party to keep a contractual promise — what lawyers call “specific performance” — is a rarely invoked remedy in merger cases, and rightly so. A forced corporate marriage can be bad for both parties and end up damaging a company’s value. If Mr. Musk and Twitter are a poor fit, joining them could undermine Twitter while also eroding the worth of Mr. Musk’s other companies. Under this view, awarding money damages to Twitter instead of affirming Mr. Musk’s obligation to purchase the company would leave both better off and allow them to go their separate ways.

But holding both parties to their bargain — especially one of this economic magnitude — can also generate value for Twitter, as opposed to monetary damages. By ordering Mr. Musk to fulfill the terms of the contract, the court can create stability and certainty for future entrants into merger contracts — while giving the parties to this agreement room to negotiate their way out if both no longer want to go through with the deal.

Mr. Musk seemed enthusiastic about Twitter in April after striking an agreement to buy the company, saying, “Twitter has tremendous potential — I look forward to working with the company and the community of users to unlock it.” But then the S&P 500 dropped 6 percent over the next two and a half weeks, and technology stocks were hit particularly hard. At that point, Mr. Musk, in his distinctive style, threatened to terminate the deal if Twitter refused to give him data related to “bot” accounts. These exchanges culminated in his decision this week to terminate the acquisition.

While his lawyers gave some pretext for his decision, many market observers think it’s clear that Mr. Musk breached his contract. The merger agreement was specific: So long as Twitter fulfills its obligations and the banks fund their commitments, Twitter “shall be entitled to specific performance” of Mr. Musk’s promise to buy the company for the price agreed upon. Twitter responded to Mr. Musk’s attempt to walk away by hiring corporate-law titan Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz and suing Mr. Musk in Delaware to force him to complete the deal.

Some observers have responded with skepticism that the court will agree, noting that specific performance is a rare remedy for breach of a merger contract. It should be invoked nonetheless in this case, for three reasons.

First, though the issue has been little-studied, one of us has shown in empirical work that the market has responded positively on the few occasions when Delaware courts have forced sophisticated parties to close agreed-upon mergers. The reasons are obvious: When investors, companies and employees order their affairs around a set of promises, it’s costly to break them.

Second, damages won’t come close to compensating Twitter for the harm Mr. Musk has caused. The reason is that the contract caps damages at $1 billion. Knowing this, the parties and their lawyers — and Mr. Musk’s are sophisticated as they come — explicitly agreed that Twitter could be entitled to specific performance. Delaware’s courts have said before that this language weighs in favor of forcing merger parties to close, and this case is no different.

Third, the remedy the court chooses will influence not only Twitter but also the market for mergers as a whole. Allowing Mr. Musk to abandon this acquisition on flimsy grounds while paying for a fraction of the harm he’s caused will lead future sellers to hesitate before pursuing mergers that could create value for investors. That’s why Delaware courts have taken the extraordinary step of requiring mergers to close in the past. A failure to hold Mr. Musk to his bargain could reverberate throughout corporate boardrooms, deterring otherwise beneficial mergers, for years to come.

To be sure, forcing Mr. Musk to buy Twitter could entangle the court in the morass that Mr. Musk has created. For one thing, his banks might back out, too, both to strengthen his litigation position and to give their client what he wants. Mr. Musk also might ignore the court’s order, raising even more fundamental questions about whether courts can be counted upon to enforce the law. And those who would prefer, for political reasons, that Mr. Musk not own Twitter will wonder why a corporate-law court forced that outcome.

These considerations should not be decisive. If Mr. Musk’s banks renege on their commitments, they should and likely will be held responsible for that. If Mr. Musk, who is the C.E.O. of Tesla and Space X, also Delaware companies, ignores the will of the state’s courts, there will be consequences for that, too. And corporations have long chosen Delaware’s courts for their disputes precisely because political considerations — such as whom one might prefer to be in control of Twitter and its outsize influence — are not seen as influencing their corporate-law judgments.

The fact that Mr. Musk and Twitter may be a bad fit should give the court no pause. The parties are still free to mutually bargain for a breakup after the court has ruled. The question is what the starting point for those negotiations should be. The answer should be given by the agreement Mr. Musk signed, not his after-the-fact maneuvering.

The remedy in this case will set expectations that will shape the merger market for decades. Litigators have long said that bad facts make bad law. Allowing Mr. Musk to walk away from the deal he struck would do just that. Instead, in light of evidence that the market has applauded such steps in the past, the court should order Mr. Musk to perform the contract he signed."

Yair Listokin is a professor and deputy dean at Yale Law School. Jonathon Zytnick is an associate professor at Georgetown University Law Center.
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by jhu72 »

Musk just lost his most valuable asset. Tesla sure looks in trouble to me. Just another car company. :roll:
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youthathletics
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by youthathletics »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 6:40 pm Musk just lost his most valuable asset. Tesla sure looks in trouble to me. Just another car company. :roll:
Just a hit piece on Musk. Karpathy, who claimed the day of his sabbatical to already miss the job and looked forward to returning, meanwhile shifted the spotlight away from his person.

https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/150 ... R_M6Cr4LXA
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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youthathletics
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by youthathletics »

A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Elon Musk (yet another authoritarian)

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:12 pm This is just downright strange: https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/statu ... X3J1pDhJeQ
Thank God he ain’t transsexual. That girl may have been in trouble as a 4 year old.
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