NCAA reorg imminent

[DocBarrister]

It’s inescapable that the next moves in conference realignment could potentially sink the ACC, or even strand Virginia and Virginia Tech without a viable home.

Could the ACC’s most attractive schools — Clemson, Florida State and possibly Miami — be targeted by one of the two emerging mega-conferences? Would snagging Duke and North Carolina for basketball cachet be an appealing move for another league?

The ACC has a grant-of-rights deal in place through the 2035-36 season that guarantees, essentially, that even if a school jumps ship for another league, its television revenue still goes to the ACC.

That could be enough to keep it afloat. But with the money involved in the SEC’s television contract — and the one the Big Ten is reportedly finalizing with Fox — that might be a drop in the bucket long-term, hardly a deterrent.

… Losing that money may now be viewed like the million dollar buyouts that were supposed to keep college coaches from jumping from program to program (they didn’t) or Major League Baseball’s luxury tax, which was supposed to drive parity (it didn’t).

https://richmond.com/sports/college/bar ... ed5b5.html

A dose of reality for the grant-of-rights fetishists around here.

I suspect UVA is looking for a safe harbor right about now.

DocBarrister

explain this to me like i'm a 2 year old. it's possible the sec could say eff it, we'll pay for 4 new teams and the other 14 teams will be good with that.

but the acc as of now until proven otherwise... gets all 4 of those teams' $$ for this mega deal. so those 4 teams get nothing on this proposed megadeal. how is that good for them? so they'll make $$ in 2037?

Like I wrote previously, there is likely to be a negotiation that leaves the ACC with some money and lets the former ACC schools leave without litigation or fuss.

Could the ACC stand its ground and try to fully enforce its grant-of-rights clause? Sure, but that would be a stupid move and pretty much mean the end of the ACC.

There is already some discussion of North Carolina and Duke joining the B1G (primarily to strengthen the conference’s basketball offerings) while Clemson and FSU join the SEC.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/U ... 89460694_1

I don’t see a viable future for the ACC without a merger of their own. Treating former teams like a$$holes won’t make such a merger easy.

Who knows how things will go? If I were the leadership of the ACC, Big12, and PAC12, I might suggest getting together, setting aside past differences, and figuring how they can put together a super conference of their own.

Frankly, I think it’s already too late for those three.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

indiana already has 2 b1g teams, champ.
any examples of a conference kicking any member out? i mean, for anything?
sounds like you have the purdue prez on speed dial for action and a 1/3 cut. you a settle guy?

So it does … which begs the question … why would the B1G need three?

Don’t blame me for the Purdue speculation … that’s coming from professional sports writers (including the IndyStar). Take up your whining with them.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/c ... 784416001/

Oh, and everyone from Philadelphia knows of the saga of Temple football, which got kicked out of the Big East in 2004 for “underperformance.” It happens. I’m sure there are other examples.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/ ... rence/?amp


DocBarrister

i'm whining now? lemme ask... would u just like to throw up unwarranted speculation as fact with no one engaging? or do u want a like button?

temple?!?!? the big east had like a 1 or 2 million dollar payout. they'd lose more $$ to sheisters like you.

Yeah, you’re whining … but you always do.

You do understand that I am not the one speculating here … it’s the professionals who cover and report on college sports. Go whine to them if you don’t like what you’re hearing.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

indiana already has 2 b1g teams, champ.
any examples of a conference kicking any member out? i mean, for anything?
sounds like you have the purdue prez on speed dial for action and a 1/3 cut. you a settle guy?

So it does … which begs the question … why would the B1G need three?

Don’t blame me for the Purdue speculation … that’s coming from professional sports writers (including the IndyStar). Take up your whining with them.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/c ... 784416001/

Oh, and everyone from Philadelphia knows of the saga of Temple football, which got kicked out of the Big East in 2004 for “underperformance.” It happens. I’m sure there are other examples.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/ ... rence/?amp


DocBarrister

i'm whining now? lemme ask... would u just like to throw up unwarranted speculation as fact with no one engaging? or do u want a like button?

temple?!?!? the big east had like a 1 or 2 million dollar payout. they'd lose more $$ to sheisters like you.

Yeah, you’re whining … but you always do.

You do understand that I am not the one speculating here … it’s the professionals who cover and report on college sports. Go whine to them if you don’t like what you’re hearing.

DocBarrister

the personal insult guy that likes to whine when folks get too rough on him. how ironic. i'm happy to have everyone reading here to see how this is going and get impressions.

there's people speculating on both sides, hoss. i just don't post links from places like bamahammer. you have made a dozen or more definitive statements like you know the future and how to do everything. kind of like everything else you comment on.

[droliver]

The B1G doesn’t want those “little brother” schools. Dilutes the brand. I think the B1G will eventually take in Oregon, Washington, Cal, and Stanford. Notre Dame will probably come in (maybe if the B1G agrees to handle the ACC exit fees). If the B1G wants to be at 20 schools, an underperforming school (maybe Purdue?) may get kicked out

Cal & Stanford are elite schools, but not very valuable media rights properties. The Big X doesn't gain anything by adding them. Washington & Oregon would sell their kidney's for an invite, but it's not clear they really fit in either with the revenue model either.

[OCanada]

Oregon is about an hour from Portland. It would work.

[Farfromgeneva]

Portland doesn’t do anything more than the Bay Area are a media market.

But let’s be clear the revenue model and the idea of covnferences being affiliated bt like minded or cultural institutions has been long gone since BC went to the ACC, if not earlier. That ship sailed 15-20yrs ago. Folks trying to get academic or cultural shine off a Cal Berkeley,Stanford, UVA or ND by comparing them with Rutgers, Iowa State and Nebraska are fooling themselves. Fine institutions but sharing a football driven TV contract doesn’t mean anything about the education at a institution. Folks hanging onto the “but we’re similar” argument are off the reservation. There’s nothing academic left about this except running game theory models to optimize revenue.

[OCanada]

It fits with places like Happy Valley and recent expansion teams. In the event until ND decides hard to know

It is certainly all about the $$$$$$

In the end there will probably be two super conferences with the winner of each playing for the title. Realignment is almost certainly not stopping with the addition of USC, UCLA, TX and OK.

[DocBarrister]

It fits with places like Happy Valley and recent expansion teams. In the event until ND decides hard to know

It is certainly all about the $$$$$$

In the end there will probably be two super conferences with the winner of each playing for the title. Realignment is almost certainly not stopping with the addition of USC, UCLA, TX and OK.

Half a dozen schools have reportedly reached out to the Big12 as a lifeboat. The number is ten schools reaching out to the Big Ten.

https://www.si.com/.amp/college/2022/07 ... cc-schools

Money is important to Notre Dame, as is their history as an independent. However, nothing is more important to Notre Dame in football than a pathway to a national championship. Some have speculated that the SEC may agree to a championship carve out for Notre Dame to keep them from joining the Big Ten, but that doesn’t really make sense if you are trying to establish a Power 2 college football world.

There are some that think further expansion of the B1G and SEC will not occur for some time. I am skeptical. I would not be entirely surprised if 2022 closes out with just three major conferences remaining: the Big Ten, SEC, and Big12, with Notre Dame slated to (eventually) join the Big Ten.

We’ll see where things fall. I’m sure there will be more surprises coming.

DocBarrister

[Laxbuck]

Educated speculation
BIG10 West
USC
UCLA
Oregon
UW
Cal
Stanford

Midwest
Nebraska
Minnesota
Iowa
NW
Illinois
Wisconsin

East
Rutgers
MD
UNC
Duke
Georgia Tech
Penn St

Mideast
ND
OSU
Michigan
Michigan St
Purdue
Indiana

ND could swap with Rutgers
Other ways of splitting them up as well

Guessing this is the 24

Lacrosse
Duke
UNC
MD
OSU
Penn St
Rutgers
Michigan
ND

Hopkins likely out
Leaving 7 conference games

Would be an epic conference

[steel_hop]

Lacrosse
Duke
UNC
MD
OSU
Penn St
Rutgers
Michigan
ND

Hopkins likely out
Leaving 7 conference games

Would be an epic conference

Which would be very ironic because I said this could be an issue way back when Hopkins made the dumb decision to move to a conference. That the B1G would push out Hopkins as soon as they got a 6th team - at that point I felt like it was Northwestern offering a DI team - but this is just as likely.

[OCanada]

AD and Hop attorneys had a clause inserted to protect against. Essentially Hopkins could withdraw after five years but the B1G could not drop them. It was a good move imo

I con’t know if the original contract has been amended since but i don’t know why it would be. The B1G was wanted Hopkins and welcomed them. I don’t see them leaving.

Some schools mentioned by someone or another: KS, Utah, AZ, CO. The current situation is going to change. Maybe sooner than later.

Time frame may color views. Short or long view etc

[Farfromgeneva]

Like another piece stated-conferences and colleges won’t do anything until a lawyer tells them they can.

Hop doesn’t have any permanent residence in the Big Ten. If it’s inconvenient even from a paperwork perspective for the conference they’ll make a move.

I don’t see lacrosse lining up or conferences mattering outside the two big sports soon. Could see dual conference alignments, it’s happened before and is suspect that’s what will happen here. One affiliation for football and basketball and another for everything else under the old conference model.

[HopFan16]

Lot of wishcasting being done here. B1G has no reason to remove Hopkins even if they legally could. It costs them nothing and it gives them a foothold in Baltimore, better TV ratings, more general lacrosse interest in the conference, more rivalries, another top-tier academic school to brag about, etc. Suddenly they're going to give that up because the paperwork is annoying or something? By all accounts the conference is very happy with the addition.

[Farfromgeneva]

“If it’s inconvenient”

Nobody knows but love the petty microfocus on Balt over the fact that conferences could be different for all athletics other than FB/BB within 2-3yrs and the NCAA still cover the rest with dual conference affiliations. Plenty of precedent for dual conference affiliation.

It’s not all about Hop.

[Chitown]

Notre Dame is the interesting piece. About 20+ years ago, the Chicago papers were full of stories when the BIG invited ND to join. ND refused because of its football $$. The BIG responded that it was a one time offer. The ND faculty wanted to join the BIG because.of⁰ the academic benefits of the BIG academic consortium, a lot of important research universities sharing info, etc.

Now there is more.$ if you are BIG member. Will the BIG change its.mmind? It did let ND become a one sport member in hockey, but no money there, like lacrosse. An acquaintance who had played ND hockey was happy because it was their natural rivals and less travel.

ND should think about a lesson from the recent lacrosse season. The BIG with its expansion has less incentive to add ND and ND may have more incentive to join, strength of schedule and not left playing midterm teams..

Who knows?

[OCanada]

Phil Knight wants OR to apply. It was not unexpected but it is now out there

[ggait]

The ship has already sailed.

But an obvious simple solution would have been to just carve off the highest end of college football into its own nation-wide super-league with its own playoff. And then leave all the other sports in their traditional regional leagues.

Football generates all the dough and only has one weekend game a week. So a big $$$ made-for-tv semi-pro league would work well.

But going from LA to State College, PA for a Tuesday night hoops, volleyball, baseball game?

Wonder if USC would use all that new B10 cash to finally start a D1 mens lacrosse team? They now have access to a lacrosse league.

[Farfromgeneva]

Phil Knight wants OR to apply. It was not unexpected but it is now out there

Believe they’re jamming through legislation binding Ore St and Ore currently which may be an issue.

[Farfromgeneva]

The ship has already sailed.

But an obvious simple solution would have been to just carve off the highest end of college football into its own nation-wide super-league with its own playoff. And then leave all the other sports in their traditional regional leagues.

Football generates all the dough and only has one weekend game a week. So a big $$$ made-for-tv semi-pro league would work well.

But going from LA to State College, PA for a Tuesday night hoops, volleyball, baseball game?

Wonder if USC would use all that new B10 cash to finally start a D1 mens lacrosse team? They now have access to a lacrosse league.

That’s basically what I’m suggesting though maybe also inclusive of BB.

Football is a couple of divisions of one league separate from the rest except for effectively renting the university names and infrastructure.

[ggait]

Even though mens BB is also a money sport, the revenue (and costs) are still paltry as compared to football. And mens BB, I think works much better as a regional conference sport than a national sport.

Hoops is a much larger and more diverse population of schools than high end football. Many of the best hoops brands (UCLA, Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Zona, Nova, Gonzaga) are meh-to-non existent in football. And hoops already has a national playoff in place, which is awesome and a $$$ bonanza. And which is inclusive of good hoops schools like Loyola Chicago, St. Peters, Butler, FGCU, etc. that are outside the P5.

If you put football aside, there is literally no reason or rationale for USC and UCLA to be playing hoops in anything other than the Pac-12. No reason for Duke, UNC, UVA to play hoops in anything other than the ACC. Or for Nova, Gtown, St. Johns to play outside the BE. Come to think of it, Syracuse, UConn, BC and ND (but for football) would have stayed and would have been much better off to keep playing in the BE.

Money (i.e. football) changes everything.